Trade Brad Miller

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rome
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VF21 said:
Fine. We'll get rid of him. We'll move him to the 4 and bring in a center who can rebound and play D.

Problem solved...
Eh, not really...though it could work decently. He would be forced to play people like Duncan, Dirk, and Brand while our C (use Wilcox JUST FOR EXAMPLE!) would be stuck playing Nazr Mohammad and Erick Dampier. Do you see the mismatch at the PF position? I know I do...

edit: I also think we could greatly benefit by having a SG who can step out and make the 3 consistently to allow Artest more room to operate with inside, Shareef too.
 
beemerr23 said:
Eh, not really...though it could work decently. He would be forced to play people like Duncan, Dirk, and Brand while our C (use Wilcox JUST FOR EXAMPLE!) would be stuck playing Nazr Mohammad and Erick Dampier. Do you see the mismatch at the PF position? I know I do...

This is where I get confused. You yourself mentioned that moving Brad to PF would be an acceptable plan if we got a center that rebounded/blocked shots because he was such a good passer.

beemerr23 said:
Now, if Brad was at the 4, a solid C that can shot block/rebound at the 5, and a shooting guard at the 2 who can spread the floor, I'm all for keeping Brad as he's a great passer like you said.

Yet, VF21 suggests it, and you disagree.

So, I've gotta wonder, are you confused, or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
 
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GoGoGadget said:
This is where I get confused. You yourself mentioned that moving Brad to PF would be an acceptable plan if we got a center that rebounded/blocked shots because he was such a good passer.



Yet, VF21 suggests it, and you disagree.

So, I've gotta wonder, are you confused, or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

DING! DING! DING!!!!

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!!!

Congratulations, G3.

1118.gif
 
I dont know why people are saying that there would be mismatcs on Defesne if we moved brad to the 4... last time I checked, anyone can guard anyone... so reguardless, brad would match up againts his best matchup. If we got a athletic center guy... he would guard the Duncan, KG's...

Oh and ron is a very acceptable passer...
 
GoGoGadget said:
This is where I get confused. You yourself mentioned that moving Brad to PF would be an acceptable plan if we got a center that rebounded/blocked shots because he was such a good passer.



Yet, VF21 suggests it, and you disagree.

So, I've gotta wonder, are you confused, or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
I'm pretty positive you seem to avoid the shooting guard option I keep mentioning. This time, I won't add in anything else so you won't forget about it. I'm not arguiging at all, I'm simply stating my opinion
 
PF's are generally quicker then Centers like Brad Miller so that would not be a mismatch at all because Brad is totally ineffective when a player is stepping into the high post and actually guarding Miller. What would make more sense is keeping Miller at the center spot but getting a PF who can play help defense and rebound/block shots.

If Rick Adelman leaves then i think Miller should leave too. Imagine if Avery Johnson was our coach. Brad Miller would be hearing it from the coach every second for not playing defense or rebounding.
 
SacKings4Life21 said:
I dont know why people are saying that there would be mismatcs on Defesne if we moved brad to the 4... last time I checked, anyone can guard anyone... so reguardless, brad would match up againts his best matchup. If we got a athletic center guy... he would guard the Duncan, KG's...

Oh and ron is a very acceptable passer...

Psst? SK4L21? Be careful. If you get dragged too deeply into this, you will start to see double and you'll have ringing in your ears.

This is a NO LOGIC zone.
 
beemerr23 said:
I'm pretty positive you seem to avoid the shooting guard option I keep mentioning. This time, I won't add in anything else so you won't forget about it. I'm not arguiging at all, I'm simply stating my opinion

The only thing I'm avoiding when it comes to your suggestion of a shooting guard is pointing out how successful we were with Brad at PF, Vlade at C and Doug Christie's streaky shooting at SG.
 
SacKings4Life21 said:
I dont know why people are saying that there would be mismatcs on Defesne if we moved brad to the 4... last time I checked, anyone can guard anyone... so reguardless, brad would match up againts his best matchup. If we got a athletic center guy... he would guard the Duncan, KG's...

Oh and ron is a very acceptable passer...
Well...lets say our athletic center took KG or someone of his kind then. That leaves the C position to be guarded, Miller does not play good enough defense to stop them down in the post, see career games for Kwame, Jerome James, and Adonal Foyle. Either way you put it, Miller is slow and plays soft defense, so it's still a mismatch. The only thing he could help us with is on the offensive end, where his passing skills could greatly compliment a good shooting guard.
 
Rome said:
If Rick Adelman leaves then i think Miller should leave too. Imagine if Avery Johnson was our coach. Brad Miller would be hearing it from the coach every second for not playing defense or rebounding.
And he's one of the leading candidates for Coach of the Year, imagine that. Take notes Adelman!
 
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes

Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes
Incoming

Troy Hudson
6-1 PG from Southern Illinois
9.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 22.1 minutes

Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
4.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: -0.6 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Troy Hudson
6-1 PG from Southern Illinois
9.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 22.1 minutes

Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
4.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 0.6 apg in 19.4 minutes
Incoming

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes

Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.6 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and -0.1 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Sacramento: They get a great shotblocker/rebounder in Griffin and a awsome 6th man in Hudson. This would help the Kings weaknesses in rebounding and defense.

Minnisota: They get rid of the big contract of Troy Hudson. They've been unhappy with Griffin. They get a great rebounder in case they trade KG and they also get a young G/F in Garcia. Great way to start rebuilding the franchise.
 
I refuse to allow anyone who resembles PippiLongstocking to be seriously considered as a King.

;)
 
pippi01.jpg
Troy_Hudson-arton21010-240x240.jpg


Well he doesn't resemble PippiLongstocking in this comparison. :)
 
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No, in that one he actually looks more like a young Whoopi Goldberg.

;)

He's got game but the dude REALLY needs to do something about his hair.
 
I agree. I hated Spree and Fortson for other reasons, but Hudson can't be King unless he does something about the hair too.
 
Why are we so reliant on the "Princeton" system anyways? We did after all change a lot with the addition of Artest and the subtraction of Peja. Why do we have a Center that plays like a PG and a PG that plays like a SG and a SG that plays like the forward or Power Guard???? This team is so unconventional which is o.k. except we are have a softer interior than a twinkie and have to hang any hope of getting rebounds on a given night to our 6'5" SG and 6'7" PF while our 7' Center is playing outside taking shots and passing instead of playing by the basket and getting rebounds or posting up and scoring. I know we are good no post up guys, but our a Center should be able to do this and have a hook shot or something. I know Brad is a good shooter which creates it's own mismatch when the opponents center needs to play out to guard him, but I much rather have a traditional center that stays close to the basket and has a presence. We can only hope right??? The offseason should be interesting.
 
1) OFFENSIVELY Brad Miller is actually a BETTER fit for this current squad than a traditional low post type center would be. We've got all kinds of post players, and need somebody who can shoot a jumper to create space. In addition, Brad is the best passer at his position in the league -- more important than ever with the Vlade/Webb/Doug trio moving on.

2) Its on DEFENSE where Brad's shortcomings are deadly. And for these purposes rebounding will be considered part of defense. In some way I still do not fully understand, this offseason we intentionally surrounded Brad Miller with Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Peja Stojakovic. All three of whom have played SF in their careers. There was no hope there. And that has to change next season. We need at LEAST one shotblocker/rebounder in there (the teams most likely to play for a title this year have considerably more than that). With Brad as your center, I could even argue that EVERYBODY else getting minutes on the frontline should be a shotblocker, but we don't do that in Kingsland, and Reef's offense sure is nice off the bench. Strictly speaking you do NOT need your center to be doing your rebounding and shotblocking. It just makes sense and is the easiest thing to balance. But you need SOMEBODY to do those things. If we had that person or persons, Brad's deficiencies become things we want from him, rather than things we need from him.

We didn't lose that game on Saturday on offense. We lost it on defense. We scored 88. About normal for a Spurs opponent. They scored 122. 122!

P.S. Skillset aside, the other issue with Brad of course is his passivity and competitiveness. It wasn't his lack of skills that caused the 4pt 1reb performance, it was a lack of aggression and competitiveness. Reagrdless of what he does well or not well, Brad is far better than 4 and 1. But he has to compete. And he doesn't always.
 
^Yeah, exactly.

I don't necessarily fault Petrie for bringing in SAR because he was the best available free agent and there wasn't a good rebounder/shotblocker available, but hopefully it will be addressed this offseason. I also don't think that Petrie or anyone else could have anticipated that Brad would turn into a complete wuss this season. He was supposed to be Vlade with toughness and an edge, and instead he played softer than just about anyone in the league.

And to all the trad-brad people, like I said, if you want to get rid of Brad you'd better find someone better. The people calling for his head still haven't come up with a realistic/logical plan to find a better player.
 
Bricklayer said:
1) OFFENSIVELY Brad Miller is actually a BETTER fit for this current squad than a traditional low post type center would be. We've got all kinds of post players, and need somebody who can shoot a jumper to create space. In addition, Brad is the best passer at his position in the league -- more important than ever with the Vlade/Webb/Doug trio moving on.

2) Its on DEFENSE where Brad's shortcomings are deadly. And for these purposes rebounding will be considered part of defense. In some way I still do not fully understand, this offseason we intentionally surrounded Brad Miller with Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Peja Stojakovic. All three of whom have played SF in their careers. There was no hope there. And that has to change next season. We need at LEAST one shotblocker/rebounder in there (the teams most likely to play for a title this year have considerably more than that). With Brad as your center, I could even argue that EVERYBODY else getting minutes on the frontline should be a shotblocker, but we don't do that in Kingsland, and Reef's offense sure is nice off the bench. Strictly speaking you do NOT need your center to be doing your rebounding and shotblocking. It just makes sense and is the easiest thing to balance. But you need SOMEBODY to do those things. If we had that person or persons, Brad's deficiencies become things we want from him, rather than things we need from him.

We didn't lose that game on Saturday on offense. We lost it on defense. We scored 88. About normal for a Spurs opponent. They scored 122. 122!

P.S. Skillset aside, the other issue with Brad of course is his passivity and competitiveness. It wasn't his lack of skills that caused the 4pt 1reb performance, it was a lack of aggression and competitiveness. Reagrdless of what he does well or not well, Brad is far better than 4 and 1. But he has to compete. And he doesn't always.
I agree completely with everything you said, especially on the game breakdown and the last part about Brad. However, yes Brad is an excellent passer for his position, but you mentioned how we need someone who can take a jumper and create space for others. This is what I've been saying all along, if we had a SG who could do that, then Brad COULD stay because the SG could benefit from his passes and spread the floor. I also agree that having a good PF to help cover Brad's weaknesses could help the team, but it'd be nice if Brad did that..

Either way, get rid of Brad or not, we still need that SG who can spread the floor imo (in my opinion).
 
7 foot skilled centers are difficult to come by. You do not give up on a guy like that unless you're getting major talent back in the process.

Unfortunately, he's hinted that he doesnt want Sacramento to be his permanent home. He's frustrated here and he's hinted that he wants to leave. He's no longer enthousiastic on his weekly radio show and he's flat out said that he prefers to retire in Indiana.

I wouldn't say that he's been banking it like Peja obviously has been but he lacks passion in Sacramento.

He'd be better off elsewhere. Where exactly should he go? I have no clue but a lot of things have to change about this team. I do not forsee Brad Miller gaining back his intensity with the Kings.
 
well back on topic. you said move brad to the pf if we get a center that can play defense and make shots, then you said that if this happens brad miller will be forced to matchup against quicker pf's and get toasted. here's a solution. i see why they were confused.
 
tyrant said:
well back on topic. you said move brad to the pf if we get a center that can play defense and make shots, then you said that if this happens brad miller will be forced to matchup against quicker pf's and get toasted. here's a solution. i see why they were confused.
I said it could work "decently", I also said it would benefit Brad to have a good shooting guard who can benefit from his passes. Either way, we're still at a mismatch because of his soft D.
 
ok, move brad miller to center. vlade was as slow as they came, but the kings still rolled because they were so skilled and they had webber. switch brad to center and get a talented power forward. this will help our defense in the paint and spread the offense. lets go after brand.
 
tyrant said:
ok, move brad miller to center. vlade was as slow as they came, but the kings still rolled because they were so skilled and they had webber. switch brad to center and get a talented power forward. this will help our defense in the paint and spread the offense. lets go after brand.
Well there's no question getting a Solid PF would help Brad's cause and getting someone of MVP caliber like Brand could never hurt a team. :D But yes, if we had someone taller than 6'7 at the PF position we'd certainly be better off.
 
Brad is making his money....after all, wasn't he the guy who told an Indiana reporter that "hes got all the money in the world he's ever wanted, now hes just waiting until he can go back to the Pacers after his stint here ends"? Sorta like winning the Lotto and working your old janitorial job. Most would probably take an early retirement. :\
 
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Thank you.
 
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