Our current players are basically doing things contrary to the conventional system. We have short guys trying battle down low for rebound. A point guard who plays like a shooting guard and a center who plays like a point guard. How many teams actually won a championship with a center who is the team's primary passer and has very weak interior defense? Why are the Kings keep trying to prove their awkward system actually works? It is time to build a team following the conventional system.
R
Rome
Guest
yanon said:
Thank You.
Birck,
Actually, I think it would be easier to build a championship contending team with a top notch powerfoward and an average but defensive minded center. It is a lot easier to find a good powerfoward than it is to find a good conventional (rebound and defend/score in the low post) center. If we can't get KG, who is similar to the pre-injury Webber, then the Kings would be wise to change their system because they simiply will not find another powerforward, who can complement Brad, in the NBA.
Actually, I think it would be easier to build a championship contending team with a top notch powerfoward and an average but defensive minded center. It is a lot easier to find a good powerfoward than it is to find a good conventional (rebound and defend/score in the low post) center. If we can't get KG, who is similar to the pre-injury Webber, then the Kings would be wise to change their system because they simiply will not find another powerforward, who can complement Brad, in the NBA.
R
Rome
Guest
yanon said:
Birck?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
yanon said:
Well after 8 straight playoff appearances and year after year of being one of the best offensive teams in basketball, its abundantly clear the system works. Now works for a title? I've raised that question myself. But we came achingly close in 2002 and were the favorites in 2003.
We ourselves are of course the model for teams with a great passing center who does not excel on D, and for all of the angst and complaining, Kings fans have become very very spoiled with just how good we have been year after year. Problem is in the personnel, not the system. Brad's defense and rebounding have gotten so bad -- worse than Vlade's were until his final year -- and we've teamed him with a midget and softie rather than a borderline HOF type player.
The problem with "going conventional" is that it becomes power on power. Basically you have to have a BETTER big man than Ben Wallce or Tim Duncan inside and on the glass. Otherwise you're just a pale imitation of the better teams, and you will never beat them. And so sure, if you can get your hands on a HOF big like Shaq or Duncan (or KG) you do it, or a on a three time DPOY winner like Big Ben, sure. But running off and picking up bleeping Chris Wilcox or whoever does nothing for you as you go conventional. It just means that you are GUARANTEED of being beaten, without even the intriguing upset chance you have if you are attacking them where they are weak.
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Kings113 said:Notice I didn't include guys with huge contracts. Except for Haywood, who would be kinda difficult to get with our available assets anyways. Unless we traded Brad for him, which I don't see.
Aside from that, Kenyon still can't stay healthy.
Yeah, I wish he could stay healthy. He would help our team a lot. He plays with intensity, he can run the floor, he plays good defense, etc. Artest/Martin would probably be one of the best 3/4 combos in the league on defense. I think the nuggets would trade him to us because he's not the offensive #2 they needed him to be, he's got a big contract, and they have Nene who fits better with them(if he pans out he can probably be Mello's #2 option imo).
Any chance we could trade Reef to Chicago or Brad to atlanta for their pick? ATL needs a center badly that even Brad would help(although he doesn't really play like a center) and Chicago needs someone to score in the post badly. They already have Chandler to cover up Reef's inabillity to block shots and to get the boards.
If we did either of those trades I'd draft Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas. Those guys can rebound, play D, and block shots.
What about Lorenzen Wright for the MLE? Would he sign for that and would he work?
Wright is a good rebounder, quick, plays with energy, pretty athletic, has a good mid-range jumper, can score down low, good scorer, and seems like he can defend in the post. He isn't a shotblocker like Griffin or Chandler, but has shown he can with regularity. Just this season he hasn't been able to as much, becuase his minutes and role have been decreased much for most the season compared to past. I think he would take the MLE. Wouldn't be surprised if Petrie does go after him, he tried to get him in the Bonzi trade, but Memphis said no as Corliss was to be included, I think. He wouldn't be my first or second choice, but I'd like it.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lorenzen_wright/index.html
I'd consider the Reef/Brad trade.. wouldn't mind getting Duhon or Lue back in that deal either.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lorenzen_wright/index.html
I'd consider the Reef/Brad trade.. wouldn't mind getting Duhon or Lue back in that deal either.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kings113 said:
I have no idea why people still sometimes talk about that guy. He is the epitomy of mediocrity. Not awfulness mind you. Just boring, drab, I do nothing at all well, mediocrity. Just a body. Certainly not an impact guy who can change things for this or any team.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, what he said. I'm all for replacing Brad if the Kings can legitimately upgrade. But short of receiving Duncan/Shaq/Yao/Wallace/KG, the Kings already have one of the best centers in the NBA. Brad can look pretty terrible on a bad night, but there aren't very many centers who are better than him. If you're going to trade him you had better get someone better, and none of the names bandied about in this thread (Dalembert/Wilcox/Griffin) are better.
nbrans
All-Star
I think whatever position Brad is listed as is irrelevant as long as there is someone who is a defensive presence who can play both power forward and center. That way, the defensive player can take on the better of the opposing 4 or 5 and mask Brad's deficiencies.
But that defensive player had better be really, really good defensively, because the Kings really can't afford to lose any more offense in their starting lineup. They're already struggling mightily to score points, and if you put in someone like Dalembert, that problem is only going to get worse. In other words, I'm thinking someone with "elite" rebounder/shotblocker/defender potential like Tyson Chandler. I think Dalembert is much too clumsy to have that kind of potential.
But that defensive player had better be really, really good defensively, because the Kings really can't afford to lose any more offense in their starting lineup. They're already struggling mightily to score points, and if you put in someone like Dalembert, that problem is only going to get worse. In other words, I'm thinking someone with "elite" rebounder/shotblocker/defender potential like Tyson Chandler. I think Dalembert is much too clumsy to have that kind of potential.
nbrans said:
Don't think anyone has said Brad Miller for Eddie Griffin. Eddie Griffin isn't a center anyways, he can play there at times, but is more of a PF or a combo big. Also haven't seen anyone put Griffin over Brad in general. No idea where you're getting that from. Dalembert I'd say is unrealistic, and Wilcox will likely be re-signed by Seattle, and is an RFA anyways.
Don't know if we can get Chandler.
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nbrans
All-Star
Kings113 said:
See sackings' trade proposal in the middle of this thread. Obviously a Miller for Griffin trade isn't realistic or possible, but I still haven't seen a reasonable proposal for a Miller replacement in this thread. Trading people in theory is great until you start looking at trying to find someone better.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
so this is how we get kg..... we trade miller and bonzi.....
nbrans
All-Star
AriesMar27 said:
With all due respect, Minnesota wouldn't want Brad OR Bonzi. If they're going to trade KG they're going to get a proven star, cap relief, draft picks and several young players with potential. They don't want a 30 year old declining center and a 30 year old shooting guard.
FrenchCanadianKING
G-League
Brad is a very good Center. Yet Center is BY FAR the thinnest position in the NBA in terms of overall talent. One of the game's best for sure but let's see, he can shoot and dish really well. Low post moves... nope. Shotblocking... nope. Rebounding... nope. Overall defense... nope. Speed... nope. IMO, the 3 most important aspects of a Centers game is being able to score down low, block shots and rebound. Brad can't do any of those 3. Would you want one of the best point guards in the league yet he can't shoot, dribble or pass well? He's a really good shotblocker and rebounder though. I know I wouldn't.
He's good, very good and I really like Brad. But if we don't pair him up with somebody defensive-minded to clean up for him, don't expect opponents to cease running lay-up drills on us during games. Brad is good, but if his J from 15 feet doesn't drop he's useless to us. IMO he's not the guy for THIS team. And even if he doesn't have a BAD game for the rest of the series/playoffs, that still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't play a Center's game and that we need way more out of him, especially with this current team, in order to be true contenders.
He's good, very good and I really like Brad. But if we don't pair him up with somebody defensive-minded to clean up for him, don't expect opponents to cease running lay-up drills on us during games. Brad is good, but if his J from 15 feet doesn't drop he's useless to us. IMO he's not the guy for THIS team. And even if he doesn't have a BAD game for the rest of the series/playoffs, that still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't play a Center's game and that we need way more out of him, especially with this current team, in order to be true contenders.
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A
AriesMar27
Guest
okay i got it.... wilcox and watson for miller.... let hart walk.... resign bonzi....
A
AriesMar27
Guest
mikki moore would be nice too....
SacKings4Life21
Bench
wilcox doesnt block shots.......! he rebounds, which is great... but he doesnt block shots!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Look if we have any hope of keeping a Bonzi/Ron wing combo, we need Brad Miller to spread the floor. He and Bibby are our only 2 legit outside threats. Two very good ones as well. Lets see how Brad bounces back and come back to this subject. I am all for getting a big body to put next to him. Not trading him away for an average role player.
Find a way to bring a guy like Dalembert here WITHOUT giving up Brad. Find a way to bring a guy like Eddie Griffin here WITHOUT giving up Brad.
I woudn't mind moving up in the draft to pick up Shelden Williams. He'd be perfect as that 4/5 combo, shotblocker, rebounder, etc. We've got expiring deals in Hart (when he picks up his option), Vitaly, and Big Nasty. Some good young talent if a draft day deal is expanded in Monia, Garcia, and Martin.
Find a way to bring a guy like Dalembert here WITHOUT giving up Brad. Find a way to bring a guy like Eddie Griffin here WITHOUT giving up Brad.
I woudn't mind moving up in the draft to pick up Shelden Williams. He'd be perfect as that 4/5 combo, shotblocker, rebounder, etc. We've got expiring deals in Hart (when he picks up his option), Vitaly, and Big Nasty. Some good young talent if a draft day deal is expanded in Monia, Garcia, and Martin.
SacKings4Life21
Bench
Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Incoming
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
12.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +7.2 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and +4.2 apg.
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
12.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: -7.2 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and -4.2 apg.
Outgoing
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Incoming
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
12.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +7.2 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and +4.2 apg.
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
12.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.2 minutes
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: -7.2 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and -4.2 apg.
SacKings4Life21
Bench
dunno how this would actually play out, but brad wants to finish his career in indiana, and I heard Indi was exploring JO trades...
