The SF Question

[Capt. Factorial]

With water under the bridge being water under the bridge, we now have this lineup:

Vasquez/IT/Jimmer/McCallum
McLemore/Thornton
Salmons/Outlaw
Thompson/Patterson
Cousins/Hayes

At the PG, we are over-crowded, and we will probably need to move either IT or Jimmer. At SG, we are well-covered, and for now maybe not terribly inclined to trade Thornton until McLemore establishes himself. Down low we need another body, and it couldn't hurt to be a fairly major asset (e.g. Asik if Houston really is trying to unload him).

But the hole at SF is huge. On the bright side, we've got cap space to fill it. Our current roster runs about $46.6M, so we've got just short of $12M in cap space, which can be trivially raised to $19.5M with a Salmons amnesty.

So...we've got money and no real SF. How do we fill it? For this post, I'm going under the assumption that we are going to use a significant chunk of our cap space to grab a SF (this may not be true - we may go cheap on the SF and spend in the post). So, I decided to try to put together a list of the big-$$ SFs who are either free agents or who might reasonably be pried from their teams. The list is a grand total of 10 players long (but feel free to point out any I've missed):

Rudy Gay ($18M/$19M)
Luol Deng ($14M)
Danny Granger ($14M)
Shawn Marion ($10M after trade kicker)
Jeff Green ($9M/$9.5M/$9.5M)
Trevor Ariza ($7.5M)
Derrick Williams ($5M/$6M)
Josh Smith (FA, $$$)
Andre Iguodala (FA, $$$)
Andrei Kirilenko (FA, $$)

Fortuitously, the maximum poll size is 10, so I'm putting one up. Thoughts?

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I think we need too go with a scorer with solid defensive skills. Out of that list I would go for Deng, Gay Then Granger. We abolutely need someone who can force their will on defenses and create their own shot and score, since Mac and Vas arent great at that.

Deng is very interesting because hes is a great defender aswell, that has played years in a great defensive system. I also wouldnt mind making a serious run at Tobias Harris who I think will be an Allstar.

Gordon Hayward is also an Interesting option.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

For the record, here's the thought process behind my votes:

Gay: Yes - Not my first option because of the money and his inefficient play, but a star is a star, right? I don't know if I'd want to burn a Salmons amnesty on this, especially with the cost of the contract, but if the Raptors were willing to eat Hayes' and Outlaw's contracts to drop some payroll, we'd have enough room to make the trade.

Deng: Yes - One of my top options. He'll be expensive to keep after one year, and there's a worry he might start breaking down a bit, but if the Bulls are looking to shed salary we could make this happen.

Granger: No - I'm just far too worried about the health of his knees to make that leap. The logical trade everybody proposes is Thornton for Granger. Indy would probably consider that, but without Tyreke, Thornton may be pretty valuable to us as McLemore learns the ropes.

Marion: No - It might have been a different story if we could have nabbed the #13 pick along with him and drafted someone we were after, but for his contract (plus trade kicker) I'll pass.

Green: Yes - The only problems here are that Green has been splitting his time between the 3/4 and has been more effective as a stretch-4, and that I'm not sure Boston would want to give him up. They're obviously rebuilding, but he might be a piece they want to hold on to.

Ariza: No - This is pretty much a last resort. If we absolutely have no other way to fill the SF, then think about Ariza. He bounced back a little bit last year after several sub-par years, but at this point I don't really trust him.

Williams: Yes - Of course, I'm crazy to have said yes, and I almost said no. Williams has been even less of a SF than Green, but he's just got so much tantalizing potential, and he's so tantalizingly cheap relative to these other options. He's not a first resort, and in fact I'd probably rather kick the tires on FA Austin Daye, but for the money Williams wouldn't be a worst-case scenario.

Smith: No - Nothing against Smith, but we haven't been linked up in any rumors regarding him, and he's probably looking for a max contract to come here. On balance I'd prefer to spend that kind of money on Iguodala, who's not a tweener.

Iguodala: Yes - I do worry about age catching up with him, though. More to the point, we may have burned our bridges with his agent, if not with him. Seems really unlikely at this point.

Kirilenko: Yes - He's quite a bit older than the rest of these guys, but he's a brutally efficient shooter (despite not being good from deep) and still has some of that lockdown defense left. He'd probably cost 3/$30M, which is steepish, but probably well worth it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I also wouldnt mind making a serious run at Tobias Harris who I think will be an Allstar.

Gordon Hayward is also an Interesting option.

I'm not sure that either Harris or Hayward will be available. Thought Orlando/Utah valued those guys pretty highly. Obviously I'd take either in a heartbeat if the price was reasonable.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Williams: Yes - Of course, I'm crazy to have said yes, and I almost said no. Williams has been even less of a SF than Green, but he's just got so much tantalizing potential, and he's so tantalizingly cheap relative to these other options. He's not a first resort, and in fact I'd probably rather kick the tires on FA Austin Daye, but for the money Williams wouldn't be a worst-case scenario.

Interesting, I think I like this idea. Williams absolutely went off offensively last year near the end of the season. But i do have some questions, can he play SF fulltime? Can he defend SF's? I havent watched enough of him too make proper judgement. But he could prolly be had pretty cheap.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Dwight Howard recently said he wants a third Max contract in Houston. Maybe Parsons is an option for us if we take back some contracts and toss them enough assets. That would be a phenominal fit.


Edit: or maybe im just delusional

 

[bajaden]

Dwight Howard recently said he wants a third Max contract in Houston. Maybe Parsons is an option for us if we take back some contracts and toss them enough assets. That would be a phenominal fit.


Edit: or maybe im just delusional

I'm going with delusional!

 

[bajaden]

I voted for Iguodala. He's still my top choice because of fit. Great passer for a SF, good defender, and decent enough shooter. My second choice would be Deng...

 

[kingwin]

im really intrigued with derrick williams...what would it take to get him from minny? and is he better as a stretch 4?

 

[Section 101]

I could see Cory Brewer as a stop gap.

 

[Darth Divac]

With water under the bridge being water under the bridge, we now have this lineup:

Vasquez/IT/Jimmer/McCallum
McLemore/Thornton
Salmons/Outlaw
Thompson/Patterson
Cousins/Hayes

Just want to point out that there's no way McCallum is behind Jimmer and that there's a legitamate chance he beats out IT as well.

 

[Darth Divac]

Green is one of my favorite players, a versatile SF who plays a lot of stretch 4. Excels at all facets of the game, including defense and rebounding, which makes me giddy.

 

[kingwin]

I could see Cory Brewer as a stop gap.

i wouldnt mind corey brewer at all...pete should know his game since they were both in denver...make it happen pete

 

[Kingsfan23]

Kirilenko is iffy because of his durability... but if the staff is trying to emphasize an environment where folks want to play for us it seems like he has been rebuffing our advances in past years

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm going with delusional!

Yeah, its unfortunate that his desire to play here appears to be not what we would have liked. I think it would have fit everyone overall. We would have paid him the most. He is renowned as a veteran lockerroom guy that would have been good for us. To bad it went down the way it did

 

[Glenn]

Just want to point out that there's no way McCallum is behind Jimmer and that there's a legitamate chance he beats out IT as well.

I disagree but it's not worth much of a discussion. I've only seen a few videos of McCallum and he is a great athlete. I think IT creates more chaos than order. For all I know McCallum may create chaos also but I got people jumping down my throat when I said the drafting of McCallum meant the end of IT with the Kings. I have no more room in my tummy. As to Jimmer, he's a big question mark. I doubt if McCallum, as a coaches son, will take a few years to become simply more positive than negative when he hits the court. McCallum's salary will undoubtedly be more favorable to us and if we have equal athletes and one is less expensive, I will go with the less expensive. It leaves Jimmer as trade bait although as it appeared we tried to move him on trade day and found no takers, we may be stuck and hope he develops. BTW, I supported the drafting of Jimmer and am not the only person with that attitude.

Now back to staying on topic. Sorry for what I hope doesn't result is a thread hijacking.

The real question has to do with SFs and I am still an Iggy fan. The fact that a 4 year contract may coincide with his usefullness at a high salary AND that it coincides when we will have McLemore as a RFA is a great coincidence and I presume it holds with any SF we sign. WE NEED A SF. I doubt that we have burned bridges with Iggy unless the relationship PDA developed with him in the last year us different than we are all assuming. Certainly we could have maintained phone contact with Iggy in the last few days. If we don't get Iggy, there are several others. In my book, if we get a great SF, the pain of losing Tyreke will be nullified as that Tyreke trade, assuming it occurs, started a domino effect which may lead to a quality SF. Depending on who we get and what the salary is, we may even have enough money for a defensive minded big who is at least as good as Lopez but then that can be achieved in a lot of different ways including trade.

Thanks folks for starting this thread and thanks Capt. Factorial for the concise run down.

 

[VF21]

For the record, here's the thought process behind my votes:

Deng: Yes - One of my top options. He'll be expensive to keep after one year, and there's a worry he might start breaking down a bit, but if the Bulls are looking to shed salary we could make this happen.

Williams: Yes - Of course, I'm crazy to have said yes, and I almost said no. Williams has been even less of a SF than Green, but he's just got so much tantalizing potential, and he's so tantalizingly cheap relative to these other options. He's not a first resort, and in fact I'd probably rather kick the tires on FA Austin Daye, but for the money Williams wouldn't be a worst-case scenario.

Those are the two I picked.

 

[kingsfan101]

For the record, here's the thought process behind my votes:

Gay: Yes - Not my first option because of the money and his inefficient play, but a star is a star, right? I don't know if I'd want to burn a Salmons amnesty on this, especially with the cost of the contract, but if the Raptors were willing to eat Hayes' and Outlaw's contracts to drop some payroll, we'd have enough room to make the trade.

Deng: Yes - One of my top options. He'll be expensive to keep after one year, and there's a worry he might start breaking down a bit, but if the Bulls are looking to shed salary we could make this happen.

Granger: No - I'm just far too worried about the health of his knees to make that leap. The logical trade everybody proposes is Thornton for Granger. Indy would probably consider that, but without Tyreke, Thornton may be pretty valuable to us as McLemore learns the ropes.

Marion: No - It might have been a different story if we could have nabbed the #13 pick along with him and drafted someone we were after, but for his contract (plus trade kicker) I'll pass.

Green: Yes - The only problems here are that Green has been splitting his time between the 3/4 and has been more effective as a stretch-4, and that I'm not sure Boston would want to give him up. They're obviously rebuilding, but he might be a piece they want to hold on to.

Ariza: No - This is pretty much a last resort. If we absolutely have no other way to fill the SF, then think about Ariza. He bounced back a little bit last year after several sub-par years, but at this point I don't really trust him.

Williams: Yes - Of course, I'm crazy to have said yes, and I almost said no. Williams has been even less of a SF than Green, but he's just got so much tantalizing potential, and he's so tantalizingly cheap relative to these other options. He's not a first resort, and in fact I'd probably rather kick the tires on FA Austin Daye, but for the money Williams wouldn't be a worst-case scenario.

Smith: No - Nothing against Smith, but we haven't been linked up in any rumors regarding him, and he's probably looking for a max contract to come here. On balance I'd prefer to spend that kind of money on Iguodala, who's not a tweener.

Iguodala: Yes - I do worry about age catching up with him, though. More to the point, we may have burned our bridges with his agent, if not with him. Seems really unlikely at this point.

Kirilenko: Yes - He's quite a bit older than the rest of these guys, but he's a brutally efficient shooter (despite not being good from deep) and still has some of that lockdown defense left. He'd probably cost 3/$30M, which is steepish, but probably well worth it.

While an excellent post, if we could trade MT for anything decent, I'd do it, and move Salmons to SG.

Outside shooting can be a problem, but overall creativity, size and defense would be much better.

Not much of a Salmons fan, but he has been severely outmatched at SF. Think he can be a good SG, if moved there.

 

[kingsfan101]

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered Crash?

I know he's slipped a lot recently, and is injury prone. However, he's around the same age as Iggy, is much cheaper (3/around 30M), and can still play solid defense. I would love to see him back as a King too, which is why, I'm ignoring his recent scoring shortcomings.

Boston is rebuilding. A vet like him might be bad for them. He might prefer going to a franchise in a better position than ours, but SF is probably the strongest position in the league right now (which makes our weakness, all the more pronounced). We offer him a sort of homecoming and a better chance of winning than Boston.

Bouquets/Brickbats?

 

[imabored]

AK47 or williams, but I feel like salmons isn't getting amnestied

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Out of the 'big splash' options I obviously like Iggy, Deng, and AK47 about equally, all things considered. Iggy may be the best player, but he is the most expensive, etc etc. Each players has their pro's and con's. Those are the only 10+ Million dollar players I would pursue.

On the cheap end, I'd look at Brewer first. Brewer and Asik would be a good, good get for this team. After Brewer would be Ariza, and after Ariza would be Aminu.

Vasquez/IT/McCallum/Jimmer
McLemore/Thornton
Brewer/Salmons/Outlaw
Cousins/Patterson
Asik/Thompson/Hayes

This would have me pretty excited going into next season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Out of the 'big splash' options I obviously like Iggy, Deng, and AK47 about equally, all things considered. Iggy may be the best player, but he is the most expensive, etc etc. Each players has their pro's and con's. Those are the only 10+ Million dollar players I would pursue.

On the cheap end, I'd look at Brewer first. Brewer and Asik would be a good, good get for this team. After Brewer would be Ariza, and after Ariza would be Aminu.

Vasquez/IT/McCallum/Jimmer
McLemore/Thornton
Brewer/Salmons/Outlaw
Cousins/Patterson
Asik/Thompson/Hayes

This would have me pretty excited going into next season.

Would it?

Aside from Asik who I'd be glad to have,that's a lottery team.full of unproven players. And anybody thinking of having Thornton behind McLemore has to understand that by doing so you doom us to pay out the rest of Thornton's contract, because 8+ million for a bench player playing 20 minutes or fewer unless your lottery pick scrubs out isn't going o inspire much trade chatter.

As I've said elsewhere, its all about Cousins right now barring a major All Star type player with that caproom. He has to be huge if he's going to be carrying around a pack fo roleplayers and rookies on his back.

 

[jcwkings]

Unless we sign one of the top SF's, i get the feeling we won't amnesty Salmons. He is still useful, especially without Tyreke, good handle, can set up the offense for the second unit if necessary, then just let him walk next summer. I would love to get Iggy though.

 

[Entity]

Would it?

Aside from Asik who I'd be glad to have,that's a lottery team.full of unproven players. And anybody thinking of having Thornton behind McLemore has to understand that by doing so you doom us to pay out the rest of Thornton's contract, because 8+ million for a bench player playing 20 minutes or fewer unless your lottery pick scrubs out isn't going o inspire much trade chatter.

As I've said elsewhere, its all about Cousins right now barring a major All Star type player with that caproom. He has to be huge if he's going to be carrying around a pack fo roleplayers and rookies on his back.

yeah we really need to do a thornton trade now and would have to bring back a SG also as backup.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Would it?

Aside from Asik who I'd be glad to have,that's a lottery team.full of unproven players. And anybody thinking of having Thornton behind McLemore has to understand that by doing so you doom us to pay out the rest of Thornton's contract, because 8+ million for a bench player playing 20 minutes or fewer unless your lottery pick scrubs out isn't going o inspire much trade chatter.

As I've said elsewhere, its all about Cousins right now barring a major All Star type player with that caproom. He has to be huge if he's going to be carrying around a pack fo roleplayers and rookies on his back.

Excited in a 'here are pieces that work' sense, totally. Asik is the guy now. The guy we've been waiting for who is finally available, assuming Howard signs with Houston. He is the prize. Not only do you get the shotblocker and defender you want next to Cousins, you also get an elite rebounder. He's also young with plenty of good years left in the tank.

I'd like to see a team try and rebound against those two. Brewer and Vasquez (who will be a free agent next season) would be stopgaps unless they prove otherwise. And I've said in other threads I think Thornton could have a massive year as a starter next year if that is the direction we go in. It depends on if we are actually trying to make an 8th seed run. If we are, play Thornton in that starting lineup and I think you have a shot if Cousins makes the leap... Particularly in this upcoming season. So many question marks among the teams in the second half of the Western Conference.

If I can get Cousins, Asik, and plenty of cap room going forward I'm feeling pretty good about the future.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

yeah we really need to do a thornton trade now and would have to bring back a SG also as backup.

Chicago might be interested in MT. They just waived RIP Hamilton. Maybe we could put a package together for Deng.

 

[kingwin]

Out of the 'big splash' options I obviously like Iggy, Deng, and AK47 about equally, all things considered. Iggy may be the best player, but he is the most expensive, etc etc. Each players has their pro's and con's. Those are the only 10+ Million dollar players I would pursue.

On the cheap end, I'd look at Brewer first. Brewer and Asik would be a good, good get for this team. After Brewer would be Ariza, and after Ariza would be Aminu.

Vasquez/IT/McCallum/Jimmer
McLemore/Thornton
Brewer/Salmons/Outlaw
Cousins/Patterson
Asik/Thompson/Hayes

This would have me pretty excited going into next season.

i would be ok if we came out with that team...very balanced and the pieces seem to fit...

 

[Gary]

Granger or Gay.. and yes, I am willing to take a shot even with Granger's knees. He would be my 1st choice. Gay's salary is a bit much, but I would still grab him up. He's a proven player in the league.

 

[Padrino]

Granger or Gay.. and yes, I am willing to take a shot even with Granger's knees. He would be my 1st choice. Gay's salary is a bit much, but I would still grab him up. He's a proven player in the league.

yeah, i suppose you could call gay's max salary "a bit much." sorta like how, if a nuclear bomb were to drop right on one's head, one could be called "a bit dead."

 

[GoodOldDouwe]

Brewer? As in Corey Brewer? Heck no. He's an awful rebounder, below par shooter and likes to fire away at times(%42,5 FG). He's a solid defender, but he loves to reach for steals. He loves it too much. So no, I'd rather have another year of Johnny at the 3 than to go after Brewer