[Drastic Edition] “THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…

[The_Jamal]

Classic example of underrating our own guys and overrating other team's pieces. Jerami Grant is not a winning player, sorry. He hasn't been for 5 years. Derozan is significantly outplaying him this season and he's a far more movable contract. Doesn't make sense to get worse for another "win-now" piece that doesn't make you win now.

Also dealing Huerter for peanuts (what's new on this forum) and trading Carter before we see an NBA minute. I like reading most of your trade ideas, but this one ain't it.

 

[The_Jamal]

The only positive asset we’re sending out is Carter and he hasn’t even played for the team this year. In exchange, we’re picking up 3 positive assets who happen to address our needs and help us win now. Admittedly, none of those 3 assets are as valuable as Carter but what do you expect when you’re trading 1 positive asset for 3 positive assets?

WOOF

We've jumped the shark here man. DDR and Huerter are not negative assets. Insanity

 

[iowamcnabb]

For anyone who likes making fake trades check out Spotrac’s trade machine. It’s the best one on the net imo

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So you prefer the “non-drastic edition” then?

But to address your point in all seriousness…

• We’re 12th in the west
• We have a 13-15 record
• We have an owner that’s given off the impression that he wants to win now and he has a reputation for meddling

It would not surprise me at all if one or both of them are traded at the deadline. It may be considered desperate but if you’re getting pressure from your boss to win now and you’re worried that your job is on the line unless this team turns around, I wouldn’t say it’s an unrealistic outcome.

I'm not going to say that we haven't been disappointing so far. Obviously we have. But we're about 1/3 of the way into the season, we've had some crap luck, a few crap officiating days, and aside from inconsistency in playing a full 48 and closing out games, we're looking at what is to me pretty clearly the best roster we've fielded in the last almost 20 years. Our +/- suggests we should be significantly better than we are.

Meanwhile Carter is a potential game changer once he enters the rotation if he can be the same defensive pest in the NBA as he was in college, and DeRozan is Monte's signature offseason acquisition, just 28 games ago. It's not like DDR has looked bad, either. He's living up to expectations. The team just hasn't put it all together.

If I'm Monte, and Vivek starts breathing down my neck, yes, I'm willing to look at trades to fix us up around the edges (which is why Huerter and Lyles are in every trade rumor) but breaking up the core of the team just doesn't seem like the right move. I'd point at coaching as the culprit before I break up a team where I somehow managed to get together three all-stars in freaking Sacramento.

Setting aside if you think it’s realistic that DeRozan and/or Carter are traded, do you think this trade makes our team worse?

I would say worse. I've never been high on either Grant or DFS. Williams is a nice bench piece.

A well-known silly bit of folk wisdom says that if you trade away the best player, you lose the trade. DeRozan is very easily the best player in the trade. He's the third most-important player on the team, but none of the guys you get back would slot in any higher than sixth-most important on the team (as it stands now). It's a downgrade.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

LAC is giving up 3 picks in this deal to get DeRozan.

Three second round picks. For DeRozan? Signed to a three-year deal at reasonable value?

It's pretty clear that you and I have *vast* disagreements on DDR's value.

 

[twslam07]

WOOF

We've jumped the shark here man. DDR and Huerter are not negative assets. Insanity

DDR isn’t a negative asset. As you can see, the Clippers are sending out value to obtain him.

We definitely disagree on Huerter. His calling card to being an effective player is being an elite shooter. He shot 36% last year and he’s at 32% this year. He’s looking more and more like a bench player for a team that wants to build a contender. And what contender would justify spending $17-18 mil a year on a bench player? His value around the league is not very good.

 

[twslam07]

Classic example of underrating our own guys and overrating other team's pieces. Jerami Grant is not a winning player, sorry. He hasn't been for 5 years. Derozan is significantly outplaying him this season and he's a far more movable contract. Doesn't make sense to get worse for another "win-now" piece that doesn't make you win now.

Also dealing Huerter for peanuts (what's new on this forum) and trading Carter before we see an NBA minute. I like reading most of your trade ideas, but this one ain't it.

Again, we can’t ignore the fit of Grant vs. DeRozan and we can’t ignore the fact that Grant has been miscast as a primary option for the past few years. Even if he’s better than Grant in a vacuum, the way the team & pieces come together is just as important (maybe even more).

As I mentioned in my other post to you, I’d be surprised if you could get peanuts for Huerter at this point. He’s a shooter that is not shooting well and doesn’t give you much else all while making $17-18 mil. At least with Grant, if he’s not shooting well, he can at least score, defend, and make our team more athletic and lengthier.

 

[twslam07]

Three second round picks. For DeRozan? Signed to a three-year deal at reasonable value?

It's pretty clear that you and I have *vast* disagreements on DDR's value.

I guess we do. Considering…

• How much we got him for in the trade
• The fact that he’s 35
• The fact that our team has taken a step back this year record-wise after acquiring him
• He’s not the easiest person to fit into a roster since he’s not a good floor spacer or defender

…I don’t think his trade value is as high as you think.

 

[twslam07]

I'm not going to say that we haven't been disappointing so far. Obviously we have. But we're about 1/3 of the way into the season, we've had some crap luck, a few crap officiating days, and aside from inconsistency in playing a full 48 and closing out games, we're looking at what is to me pretty clearly the best roster we've fielded in the last almost 20 years. Our +/- suggests we should be significantly better than we are.

Meanwhile Carter is a potential game changer once he enters the rotation if he can be the same defensive pest in the NBA as he was in college, and DeRozan is Monte's signature offseason acquisition, just 28 games ago. It's not like DDR has looked bad, either. He's living up to expectations. The team just hasn't put it all together.

If I'm Monte, and Vivek starts breathing down my neck, yes, I'm willing to look at trades to fix us up around the edges (which is why Huerter and Lyles are in every trade rumor) but breaking up the core of the team just doesn't seem like the right move. I'd point at coaching as the culprit before I break up a team where I somehow managed to get together three all-stars in freaking Sacramento.



I would say worse. I've never been high on either Grant or DFS. Williams is a nice bench piece.

A well-known silly bit of folk wisdom says that if you trade away the best player, you lose the trade. DeRozan is very easily the best player in the trade. He's the third most-important player on the team, but none of the guys you get back would slot in any higher than sixth-most important on the team (as it stands now). It's a downgrade.

Look I’m still willing to do the other deal I proposed and take a look at this core for a longer stretch (However, with each passing loss, unprotecting that pick to ATL looks more and more risky). Having said that, there are obvious flaws with this core (and I talked about this back when the DeRozan trade was made).



Let’s take a step back for a second here... When Sabonis is your 5, you ideally need to surround him with…

1. 4 defenders at the 1-4 (to help prevent dribble penetration and reduce the amount of times Sabonis has to contest at the rim)
2. 2 forwards who have above average size, length, and athleticism for their position (considering Sabonis has below average length at C and isn’t a good rim protector, having the extra size & length at SF and PF can help from a rim protection standpoint)
3. 2 go-to scorers (I don’t think Sabonis can be a #2 scorer on a contending team. I see him best in that #3 role/facilitator role.
4. 4 shooters at the 1-4 (to help keep the paint clear for Sabonis since that’s where he’s best at scoring)

We have 3 maybe 4 players (if Carter’s shot translates) that can be a part of that lineup I mentioned above…

1. Fox (go-to scorer, shooter, and defender)
2. Ellis (shooter and defender)
3. Carter (shooter and defender)
4. Murray (shooter and defender)

…everyone else on the roster has a flaw that contradicts with those requirements (Monk isn’t a good defender, DeRozan isn’t a good defender or shooter and doesn’t have above average size/length at forward, Lyles isn’t a good defender, etc.). And the fact that Murray oftentimes has to play PF neutralizes his size & length advantage at SF.

So again that leaves us with a hypothetical ideal roster of…

PG - Fox
SG - Ellis or Carter
SF - Murray
PF - ???
C - Sabonis
6MAN - Monk

To complete the ideal roster I have laid out, our PF would need to…

• Have above average size, length, and athleticism for his position
• Be a good shooter
• Be a good defender
• Be a go-to scorer

Grant checks all those boxes fairly well. I think I’d prefer to have a better go-to scorer, but the fit is great everywhere else that I’d be willing to see how the team looks. And considering the trade proposal doesn’t send out any future 1sts, we still have a lot of options to tweak the roster further.

Now if you’re not a fan of Grant, to each their own, but you’d need to either find a PF that has those 4 attributes listed above or find a PF that has those first 3 attributes and swap Ellis/Carter or Murray for a go-to scorer who can also defend, shoot, and be lengthy.

This is ultimately how you would maximize a roster built around Fox & Sabonis. I’m not overly optimistic on the long term outcome of a starting unit that features…

• 2 below average defenders (Monk & DeRozan)
• 1 below average shooter (DeRozan)
• 3 players with below average to average size & length for their positions (Monk, DeRozan, & Murray - because he’s being played at PF a lot)

…around Fox & Sabonis.



Now my trade proposal takes it a step further because instead of starting Ellis or Carter at SG, I double down on even more size & length by having Murray play SG (he’s shown he’s more than capable of defending smaller/quicker players), while having DFS and Grant man the SF and PF spots. That would be a massive injection of length, athleticism, and versatility into our starting unit. In fact, this is how much of a delta their would be in wingspan & standing reach comparing our starting SG, SF, and PF today vs. the starting SG, SF, and PF in my trade scenario…

• SG: Wingspan Delta = +8.25”
• SG: Stand Reach Delta = +7.00”
• SF: Wingspan Delta = +2.75”
• SF: Stand Reach Delta = +3.00”
• PF: Wingspan Delta = +3.00”
• PF: Stand Reach Delta = +1.00”

That’s a big and meaningful difference, and I could easily see us being a top 10 defense (probably even better) considering…

• We’d have excellent size & length at the 1-4
• We’d have plus defenders at the 1-4
• We’d have two great bench defenders still in Ellis and Robert Williams
• One of the best defensive rebounders at the 5 to close out possessions

Couple that much improved defense with an offense that…

• Still has 4 established go-to scorers (Fox, Monk, Grant, and Sabonis)
• Has a legit lob threat (Williams) to utilize in the PnR (mainly for Monk to utilize)
• Has improved shooting/spacing

…and we may be onto something special.



Now if we are hard pressed on keeping DeRozan on the roster for longer, I think we need to either have…

1. Monk come off the bench, move Murray to SG, and add a 3&D PF with above average size/length for his position
2. DeRozan come off the bench, move Murray to SF, and add a 3&D PF with above average size/length for his position

I think I’d be more in favor of option #2 simply because…

• Monk’s a much better floor spacer than DeRozan
• Monk’s athleticism allows him to play bigger than his measurements
• I’m less concerned about giving up size/length at the SG spot as I am at SF & PF
• Monk’s athleticism gives him a better chance at keeping his man in front of him (when he decides to lock in on that side of the ball)
• I like the idea of DeRozan not sharing the floor with Fox as much as possible. Fox isn’t the best shooter/floor spacer himself. It would be optimal to have a good amount of DeRozan’s minutes come when Monk and/or Ellis are out there at guard spacing the floor that much more for him to operate.

 

[twslam07]

I'll offer up an alternate "drastic" trade that people may like better than the OP. See below...


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ATL Gets: Trey Lyles, Colby Jones, & Changing of the SAC 1st protections (going from top 12 to top 4 in 2025 and from top 10 to top 4 in 2026)
ATL Gives: Larry Nance Jr, 2025 MIN 2nd, 2027 LAC 2nd, & 2028 HOU 2nd
Why for ATL? With Johnson, Risacher, Hunter, Capela, and Okongwu all able to log minutes at PF or C, it leaves little room for Nance to carve out minutes. Instead, they ship him off and a few 2nds to lessen the protection on the SAC 1st they already own to make it more likely that it conveys.

PG - Young / Krejci / Bufkin
SG - Daniels / Bogdanovic / Jones
SF - Risacher / Hunter / Matthews
PF - Johnson / Lyles / Roddy / Gueye
C - Capela / Okongwu

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BKN Gets: PJ Tucker, Bones Hyland, 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2028 HOU 2nd, 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
BKN Gives: Dorian Finney-Smith
Why for BKN? The Nets move on from their likely expiring 31 year old 3&D forward and lean further into their rebuild by adding for 4 2nd round picks and maintaining their cap space for 2025 since Tucker and Hyland.

PG - Melton / Hyland / Milton
SG - Thomas / Coffey / Johnson
SF - Johnson / Williams / Whitehead / Watford
PF - Simmons / Wilson / Tucker
C - Claxton / Sharpe / Clowney

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LAC Gets: DeMar DeRozan
LAC Gives: PJ Tucker, Bones Hyland, Kobe Brown, 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
Why for LAC? The Clippers are 19th in ORTG and 6th in DRTG. They could really use another shotmaker to help carry the offense (especially since Leonard rarely plays). If Leonard is able to come back healthy, perhaps a Leonard, Harden, & DeRozan trio (surrounded by lengthy defenders who can space the floor) is enough to make some noise in the western conference. They could even look at making DeRozan a super 6th man which would allow the Clippers to prioritize a strong defensive starting lineup out of the gate.

PG - Harden / Dunn / Porter
SG - Powell / Mann / Christie
SF - DeRozan / Jones / Coffey
PF - Leonard / Batum
C - Zubac / Bamba

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POR Gets: Kevin Huerter, Kobe Brown, Future SAC 1st (Top 8 Protected - conveys 2 years after pick to ATL), 2025 MIN 2nd, & 2027 LAC 2nd
POR Gives: Jerami Grant
Why for POR? The Blazers trade their "win now" vet and lean into their rebuild while at the same time save a lot of money this year, free up future cap, add a lightly protected 1st round pick, and a couple 2nd rounders.

PG - Simons / Henderson / Banton
SG - Sharpe / Huerter/ Rupert
SF - Camara / Thybulle / Walker
PF - Avdija / Murray / Brown
C - Ayton / Williams / Clingan / Reath

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SAC Gets: Jerami Grant, Dorian Finney-Smith, & Larry Nance
SAC Gives: DeMar DeRozan, Kevin Huerter, Trey Lyles, Colby Jones, Changing of the SAC 1st protections (going from top 12 to top 4 in 2025 and from top 10 to top 4 in 2026), & Future SAC 1st (Top 8 Protected - conveys 2 years after pick to ATL), 2025 MIN 2nd, & 2027 LAC 2nd
Why for Kings? What do the Kings need? We need size, length, athleticism, defense, and shooting. This trade injects just that into our roster.

We'd be able to go with a very solid 9-man rotation of Fox, Monk, Ellis, Carter, Murray, DFS, Grant, Nance, and Sabonis. The defense with this group could be quite good considering our worst defender would be Sabonis (& by a decent margin at that). It would be fun to watch Mike Brown go to work with all of these defensive weapons to throw at opposing teams.

Offensively, we'd still have 4 established go-to scorers (going from Fox, Monk, DeRozan, & Sabonis to Fox, Monk, Grant, & Sabonis) while improving the floor spacing (mainly DeRozan being replaced with a much better 3 PT shooter). On top of that, we'd have an excellent PnR lob threat in Nance to sprinkle into our offense and take advantage of Monk's PnR passing.

After the trade, our roster would be...

PG - Fox / Monk / McLaughlin
SG - Ellis / Carter
SF - Murray/ Crowder / McDermott
PF - Grant / DFS / Jones
C - Sabonis / Nance / Len / Robinson

...but I'd generally go with a minute distribution of...

PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Ellis (24) / Carter (12) / Monk (12)
SF - Murray (32) / DFS (10) / Carter (6)
PF - Grant (32) / DFS (16)
C - Sabonis (34) / Nance (14)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Murray = 32 min
Grant = 32 min
Monk = 26 min
DFS = 26 min
Ellis = 24 min
Carter = 18 min
Nance = 14 min

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