Kings active in trade talks?

[randymoss1881]

Ok , just to add to my previous reply to you and just wanna please some guys here, here are Sanders' problems; 1. His contract 2. His bad locker room presence 3. Being injured 4. Being involved in a fight 5. Leaving his pets outside during snow. Feel free to add more issues if you like guys anyway there are people here who act they know it all and they'll be sarcastic if you don't mention all what they know.

True, I think we should hope Asik doesn't get traded than target him on draft night. Houston wanted a 1st rounder for him and nobody budged so if we picked 6-9 we could offer them landry, Thortan (expiring), and the 1st.

 

[Gilles]

He is shooting just a tad under 40% from midrange this year, right about the same as JT. That's nothing to write home about, but it's also not a huge liability if you have him at the high post or weakside baseline. More importantly, he is best when shooting and operating on the right side of the court. Cousins is better on the left. That suggests a complementary fit on offense.

In any case, the point is moot. Milwaukee has him on a very cheap contract for the next several years. They aren't going to give him up without getting something of significant value in return, and Derrick Williams isn't that.

Henson is 13-48 from 5-15 feet and 11-32 from 15-23 feet, so I fail to see those 40%. He actually favors left side heavily, just can't knock any shots from that area. And if you don't think his man will drop inside every possession...well, I disagree.

 

[Gilles]

True, I think we should hope Asik doesn't get traded than target him on draft night. Houston wanted a 1st rounder for him and nobody budged so if we picked 6-9 we could offer them landry, Thortan (expiring), and the 1st.

Asik is worth nowhere near top-10 pick in this draft. He's an excellent defensive presence with atrocious offense, who will be earning $15 million next season. Plus your deal is actually notpossible as Thornton and Landry will be over $15 million in salary combined, while Asik's contract will only be $8,333,000 for trade purposes.

 

[Entity]

Henson is 13-48 from 5-15 feet and 11-32 from 15-23 feet, so I fail to see those 40%. He actually favors left side heavily, just can't knock any shots from that area. And if you don't think his man will drop inside every possession...well, I disagree.

Don't they drop down and double cousins now anyway? Sometimes triple? So if you have that already why not have the shotblocking to go with it

 

[Gilles]

No, those are mostly soft doubles or hard ones late in the possession. Against such shooting ineptitude it will be an extra man in the paint for 16 seconds, considering it usually takes Kings 8 to cross mid-court. Especially since he can't set good screens with his frame.

 

[Entity]

No, those are mostly soft doubles or hard ones late in the possession. Against such shooting ineptitude it will be an extra man in the paint for 16 seconds, considering it usually takes Kings 8 to cross mid-court. Especially since he can't set good screens with his frame.

He would then get 5 three second violations. So JT > Henson?

In your eyes we not only have to have a shot blocker that is a good rebounder but must be able to hit 40% out to 25 ft? Hell if we find that guy we don't need cousins

 

[Gary]

He would then get 5 three second violations. So JT > Henson?

In your eyes we not only have to have a shot blocker that is a good rebounder but must be able to hit 40% out to 25 ft? Hell if we find that guy we don't need cousins

What did Scot Pollard shoot from outside 10ft? Just curious if that's the type of player you're describing.

 

[TheBadGuy]

It's not that you didn't mention it all. It's that you said his contract was the "only" problem, when clearly it is not.

That's why I said I forgot to mention other issues right? Plus his injury will be healed, his play last season might come back, and his off court issues may also stop also but his contract? obviously it will not change.

 

[TheBadGuy]

What other active NBA player has off court issues that are as bad as those of Sanders?

Michael Beasley , Andrew Bynum, Jordan Hill, Jared Sullinger, Ty Lawson, Jr Smith, Lance Stephenson and Andray Blatche to name a few. Even Zach Randolph has had off court issues before.

 

[Entity]

What did Scot Pollard shoot from outside 10ft? Just curious if that's the type of player you're describing.

You came in at the end of this. I am asking same question. Some think that Henson wouldn't work beside cuz because Henson can't shoot a midrange jumper.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not even going to bother reading but I see some comparisons between he and JT offensively? OK. Here's the only comparison that would matter, Henson can defend, and at times and in time probably at an elite level. Comparison done.

 

[Entity]

I'm not even going to bother reading but I see some comparisons between he and JT offensively? OK. Here's the only comparison that would matter, Henson can defend, and at times and in time probably at an elite level. Comparison done.

Exactly

 

[bajaden]

Don't they drop down and double cousins now anyway? Sometimes triple? So if you have that already why not have the shotblocking to go with it

I think Gilles point is that its easier to double off a bad shooter than a good one. Thus the concept of the stretch four. Henson isn't a good midrange shooter, so he'd be the one they'd gamble off of.

 

[bajaden]

What did Scot Pollard shoot from outside 10ft? Just curious if that's the type of player you're describing.

Different team, different situation. That team didn't have a player that scored most of his points in the paint. Webber lived at the elbow. Vlade passed the ball more than he shot it.

 

[Telemachus]

Different team, different situation. That team didn't have a player that scored most of his points in the paint. Webber lived at the elbow. Vlade passed the ball more than he shot it.

Not to mention, Pollard's lack of offense had something to do with his playing limited minutes.

 

[Entity]

I think Gilles point is that its easier to double off a bad shooter than a good one. Thus the concept of the stretch four. Henson isn't a good midrange shooter, so he'd be the one they'd gamble off of.

So we need a stretch 4 that is a good defender rebounder and shot blocker? This is getting better and better. Maybe Santa clas will bring one of those.

 

[Bricklayer]

We really don't need a stretch 4.

In fact since "stretch 4" is often a synonym for the alternative name for a small domestic feline, if one shows up in town I hope Boogie kicks him in the non-existent gonads and takes his lunch money.

There is a very long history of great bigs, and even more post oriented bigs than Boogie, being paired with bigs with faceup jumpers. but not three point nonsense. You are trying to create a dominant inside pairing, not duplicate the utter failure in Orlando that eventually cost them Dwight. If Charles Oakley has a son who can block shots, that's who you want.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

We should just draft Kyle Anderson
Not a good shot blocker but who needs that when you have the best offensive team in the league ala Phoenix Suns back in the day lol

IT
Ben Mac
Gay
Kyle Anderson
Cousins

Me likes
Plus, now we actually have a ball handler in Anderson (point-forward) and a great passer in him as well. Defense he can work on as can anyone really. Cousins is getting there. I don't see why Cousins can't be an offensive and defense player. He's got more potential than Shaq. It's time he lives up to it especially on the defensive end. We all know Cousins can protect the rim. He's just lazy and is always trying to play man on man to get that easy pick. Malone needs to get on him for that.

Trade our junk for experienced junk and we have a playoff team

It's all about team defense anyways not individual defense. Gone are those days of Bruce Bowen who could guard a player one on one. Our guys are just lazy and unorganized.

We just need to block the lanes like Shaq used to do. Never gave the opposing guards a chance.

 

[Gilles]

We should just draft Kyle Anderson
Not a good shot blocker but who needs that when you have the best offensive team in the league ala Phoenix Suns back in the day lol

IT
Ben Mac
Gay
Kyle Anderson
Cousins

Me likes
Plus, now we actually have a ball handler in Anderson (point-forward) and a great passer in him as well. Defense he can work on as can anyone really. Cousins is getting there. I don't see why Cousins can't be an offensive and defense player. He's got more potential than Shaq. It's time he lives up to it especially on the defensive end. We all know Cousins can protect the rim. He's just lazy and is always trying to play man on man to get that easy pick. Malone needs to get on him for that.

Trade our junk for experienced junk and we have a playoff team

It's all about team defense anyways not individual defense. Gone are those days of Bruce Bowen who could guard a player one on one. Our guys are just lazy and unorganized.

We just need to block the lanes like Shaq used to do. Never gave the opposing guards a chance.

That is very insightful, but my response would be "Hell, no!" You need guys, who play defense to be a good defensive team, and your starting five has two average defenders, plus 3 guys ranging from really bad to atrocious as far as defense is concerned. Ben might become above average eventually, maybe even good, and IT might reach below average level, if he really tries, but that still gets you nowhere.
As for Henson debate my point is this:
1)he can't shoot or set good screens, that leaves cutting inside as the only way to punish his defender for leaving him at the start of possession and ignoring him for the rest of it, Henson finishes 59% inside, which is pretty average for the guy with a lot of offensive rebounds, so he doesn't look like very good finisher inside,
2)so far he hasn't shown he has an impact on defense despite his block rate, so he might be another McGee.
Given that and pretty steep asking price, I'm just not that interested.

 

[ParniValjak]

So 'Dre Miller has told the Nuggets that they can go forth and multiply (apparently he told them he has no interest in returning to Nuggets and wants to be out). Is this the time for PDA to pounce and get us a solid, reliable PG for the short term?

Surely we have to get one before the deadline?!

 

[randymoss1881]

I like the 2 trades for Sanders and Afflalo


http://aroyalpain.com/2014/02/16/royal-reflections-possible-trade-ideas-kings-nba-trade-deadline/

 

[Gary]

That is very insightful, but my response would be "Hell, no!" You need guys, who play defense to be a good defensive team, and your starting five has two average defenders, plus 3 guys ranging from really bad to atrocious as far as defense is concerned. Ben might become above average eventually, maybe even good, and IT might reach below average level, if he really tries, but that still gets you nowhere.
As for Henson debate my point is this:
1)he can't shoot or set good screens, that leaves cutting inside as the only way to punish his defender for leaving him at the start of possession and ignoring him for the rest of it, Henson finishes 59% inside, which is pretty average for the guy with a lot of offensive rebounds, so he doesn't look like very good finisher inside,
2)so far he hasn't shown he has an impact on defense despite his block rate, so he might be another McGee.
Given that and pretty steep asking price, I'm just not that interested.

Hell no to Kyle Anderson? Oh heck yah, if we could swing a way to get him and whatever pick we're at then you got to do it. I wouldn't play him at 4 though.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

That is very insightful, but my response would be "Hell, no!" You need guys, who play defense to be a good defensive team, and your starting five has two average defenders, plus 3 guys ranging from really bad to atrocious as far as defense is concerned. Ben might become above average eventually, maybe even good, and IT might reach below average level, if he really tries, but that still gets you nowhere.
As for Henson debate my point is this:
1)he can't shoot or set good screens, that leaves cutting inside as the only way to punish his defender for leaving him at the start of possession and ignoring him for the rest of it, Henson finishes 59% inside, which is pretty average for the guy with a lot of offensive rebounds, so he doesn't look like very good finisher inside,
2)so far he hasn't shown he has an impact on defense despite his block rate, so he might be another McGee.
Given that and pretty steep asking price, I'm just not that interested.

What are you using to determine Henson's defensive impact? The Bucks are terrible. And not only are they terrible, they barely have any talent. I would throw away any team statistics if that is what you are using. That team is a mess.

I think Henson has a good head on his shoulders, and that's why I like him (aside from his obvious rim protector traits). He was one of my favorite college players during his time at UNC. Never got the ball, never really cared, and stayed there until he thought he was ready. I may be bias towards him, but I like him a lot.

He's only 23. I'd take his head over both McGee and Jordan's. He blocks shots like those guys, but I think he knows his role much better, and I think he likes his role more than those guys do. McGee, in particular, thinks he's something he's not. I think he'd be a very nice complement to Cousins.

I mean, if we are looking for an established defensive power forward who can block shots, and shoot, AND is available .. good luck finding that guy.

I'm not sure where this conversation started anyway. I'd be very surprised if the Bucks dealt him.

 

[bajaden]

So we need a stretch 4 that is a good defender rebounder and shot blocker? This is getting better and better. Maybe Santa clas will bring one of those.

I don't think I advocated a stretch four. I simply mentioned why the concept has become popular. I love how people take what you say and twist it into what they want. One of the reasons I don't get involved in these discussions much anymore. They become more about being right, than sharing of information.

 

[bajaden]

We should just draft Kyle Anderson
Not a good shot blocker but who needs that when you have the best offensive team in the league ala Phoenix Suns back in the day lol

IT
Ben Mac
Gay
Kyle Anderson
Cousins

Me likes
Plus, now we actually have a ball handler in Anderson (point-forward) and a great passer in him as well. Defense he can work on as can anyone really. Cousins is getting there. I don't see why Cousins can't be an offensive and defense player. He's got more potential than Shaq. It's time he lives up to it especially on the defensive end. We all know Cousins can protect the rim. He's just lazy and is always trying to play man on man to get that easy pick. Malone needs to get on him for that.

Trade our junk for experienced junk and we have a playoff team

It's all about team defense anyways not individual defense. Gone are those days of Bruce Bowen who could guard a player one on one. Our guys are just lazy and unorganized.

We just need to block the lanes like Shaq used to do. Never gave the opposing guards a chance.

Your joking right? Anderson can't play PF in the NBA. He's a decent to good rebounder in college as a SF, but in the NBA, with his slight build, he would get killed. Plus, there's no way in hell we'd draft Anderson where were drafting. Anderson isn't a lottery pick. More than likely he goes at the bottom of the first round, and maybe even at the top of the second round.

 

[Gary]

Hell no to Kyle Anderson? Oh heck yah, if we could swing a way to get him and whatever pick we're at then you got to do it. I wouldn't play him at 4 though.

The meaning to my post since a lot of people don't like Anderson apparently is that I would consider taking him if we ALSO got a late first round pick along with our lottery pick, and I would NOT play him at 4.

 

[Gary]

Your joking right? Anderson can't play PF in the NBA. He's a decent to good rebounder in college as a SF, but in the NBA, with his slight build, he would get killed. Plus, there's no way in hell we'd draft Anderson where were drafting. Anderson isn't a lottery pick. More than likely he goes at the bottom of the first round, and maybe even at the top of the second round.

I would take him if we got a second 1st round pick in the 20s. I wouldn't play him at 4 though but I would have him coming off the bench behind Rudy.

 

[Bricklayer]

+/- stats always have a giant "?" hovering over them for me because they are so team/substitute/rotation dependent. Henson actually probably has one of the worst +/- lines in the entire NBA this year, on both sides of the ball. But that really doesn't pass the eye test. The Bucks best defensive big man by a mile according to +/-? Zaza Pachulia. Now maybe there is something there with him being their only legit NBA big body, so muscle in the post and on the boards. but his defensive +/- dwarfs Sanders'. It dwarfs Marc Gasol's. So is that a clean stat?

Meanwhile Henson charts out at nearly 6pts worse per 100 possessions on defense. Of course Tyson Chandler charts out at nearly +5 himself, so maybe he's in good company.

Here are how our Kings rate in +/- stats, with notes as to likely accuracy:

Derrick Williams
+2.6pts OFF, +7.1pts DEF -- feels exaggerated, but roughly accurate. Good for offense, Lousy defense.
Marcus Thornton
-0.9pts OFF, -4.9pts DEF -- see what I mean? Stats say Thornton is a flat defensive stopper. I say yes he tries, but our alternatives are just awful.
DeMarcus Cousins
+2.6pts OFF, -3.9pts DEF -- probably understates the offensive impact, but defensively likely about right. The old narrative is dead. all we have on defense.
Isaiah Thomas
+6.6pts OFF, -1.6pts DEF -- offense there is the big one, and no surprise. He is our only PG. But defensively again...options this year? Greivis and Jimmer.
Jason Thompson
+2.3pts OFF, -0.4pts DEF -- feels higher than expected on offense, and maybe even slightly understated on defense this year, but solid.
Rudy Gay
+5.9pts OFF, +1.7pts DEF -- juices our offense, but a net negative on defense.
Jimmer Fredette
-1.0pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- the -1.0 could = not a PG, or might be replaces IT and plays with scrubs. +/- says defense is still terrible. Does eye test?
Quincy Acy
+1.2pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- Do you believe that Acy makes the offense better while is a terrible defender? Maybe because he plays C in place of Cuz?
Ben McLemore
+0.4pts OFF, +5.1pts DEF -- maybe about right? Certainly no coincidence the way he and Thornton's numbers matchup.


You will notice BTW? These sorts of +/- stats suggest that our 5 starters get it done relatively speaking, and its our bench guys who collectively cannot defend and are responsible for our awfulness. Is that really the narrative?

In fact overall +/- suggest:
Cuz +0.0
IT +0.1
Gay +0.3
Thornton -0.1
Thompson -1.1 (weak link, but best option for a 5th)

Actually would be a .500 team if not for their teammates. Is that accurate? Dunno.

Do know this: Henson is a -11.0 per 100 in +/- this season, which doesn't matchup at all with how he's thought of.

 

[CruzDude]

I was just wondering. What if the Kings DID NOT make any significant trades this week? Looks like the asking prices are too high in most cases. The Kings say they want to build for the future so drafting a lottery pick is one way to start. This is the quietest time I ever remember 3 days before the draft and a really good draft at that. Pass first PG for future who can defend? Jimmer and McCallum? hard to say. Outside shooters in 45% range. A backup big for sure. A scoring PF who can defend. And the SG's. MT I think can be quite good if he knows he will get his 30 min/gm. McLemore will begin to emerge for more minutes next year. And Coach and owner have said multiple time that the rebuild will take a year or two.

So would not surprise me one bit if no major trade went down this week for the Kings. Andre Miller? Wouldn't he just be a year or so rental? Beno? hmmmm.....

 

[Bricklayer]

I was just wondering. What if the Kings DID NOT make any significant trades this week? Looks like the asking prices are too high in most cases. The Kings say they want to build for the future so drafting a lottery pick is one way to start. This is the quietest time I ever remember 3 days before the draft and a really good draft at that. Pass first PG for future who can defend? Jimmer and McCallum? hard to say. Outside shooters in 45% range. A backup big for sure. A scoring PF who can defend. And the SG's. MT I think can be quite good if he knows he will get his 30 min/gm. McLemore will begin to emerge for more minutes next year. And Coach and owner have said multiple time that the rebuild will take a year or two.

So would not surprise me one bit if no major trade went down this week for the Kings. Andre Miller? Wouldn't he just be a year or so rental? Beno? hmmmm.....

There is a danger in not continuing to move forward. The fanbase is certainly leaking back away as we speak. But more importantly is this: it puts colossal pressure on the team this summer. Here's disaster: this time next year Cuz has just missed the All Star game again because we struck out in free agency (who wants to play for a basement team?) and missed on another draft pick, and hence are lottery bound again. How long do you think Cuz and his agent tolerates us ****ing up his legacy? How do you keep the fans coming with the saved the team glow fading and your own incompetence becoming evident?

Gotta keep moving forward if you can. There is a timer on this project.