Kings active in trade talks?
- Thread starter The_Jamal
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Asik is worth nowhere near top-10 pick in this draft. He's an excellent defensive presence with atrocious offense, who will be earning $15 million next season. Plus your deal is actually notpossible as Thornton and Landry will be over $15 million in salary combined, while Asik's contract will only be $8,333,000 for trade purposes.
We really don't need a stretch 4.
In fact since "stretch 4" is often a synonym for the alternative name for a small domestic feline, if one shows up in town I hope Boogie kicks him in the non-existent gonads and takes his lunch money.
There is a very long history of great bigs, and even more post oriented bigs than Boogie, being paired with bigs with faceup jumpers. but not three point nonsense. You are trying to create a dominant inside pairing, not duplicate the utter failure in Orlando that eventually cost them Dwight. If Charles Oakley has a son who can block shots, that's who you want.
In fact since "stretch 4" is often a synonym for the alternative name for a small domestic feline, if one shows up in town I hope Boogie kicks him in the non-existent gonads and takes his lunch money.
There is a very long history of great bigs, and even more post oriented bigs than Boogie, being paired with bigs with faceup jumpers. but not three point nonsense. You are trying to create a dominant inside pairing, not duplicate the utter failure in Orlando that eventually cost them Dwight. If Charles Oakley has a son who can block shots, that's who you want.
S
We should just draft Kyle Anderson
Not a good shot blocker but who needs that when you have the best offensive team in the league ala Phoenix Suns back in the day lol
IT
Ben Mac
Gay
Kyle Anderson
Cousins
Me likes
Plus, now we actually have a ball handler in Anderson (point-forward) and a great passer in him as well. Defense he can work on as can anyone really. Cousins is getting there. I don't see why Cousins can't be an offensive and defense player. He's got more potential than Shaq. It's time he lives up to it especially on the defensive end. We all know Cousins can protect the rim. He's just lazy and is always trying to play man on man to get that easy pick. Malone needs to get on him for that.
Trade our junk for experienced junk and we have a playoff team
It's all about team defense anyways not individual defense. Gone are those days of Bruce Bowen who could guard a player one on one. Our guys are just lazy and unorganized.
We just need to block the lanes like Shaq used to do. Never gave the opposing guards a chance.
Not a good shot blocker but who needs that when you have the best offensive team in the league ala Phoenix Suns back in the day lol
IT
Ben Mac
Gay
Kyle Anderson
Cousins
Me likes
Plus, now we actually have a ball handler in Anderson (point-forward) and a great passer in him as well. Defense he can work on as can anyone really. Cousins is getting there. I don't see why Cousins can't be an offensive and defense player. He's got more potential than Shaq. It's time he lives up to it especially on the defensive end. We all know Cousins can protect the rim. He's just lazy and is always trying to play man on man to get that easy pick. Malone needs to get on him for that.
Trade our junk for experienced junk and we have a playoff team
It's all about team defense anyways not individual defense. Gone are those days of Bruce Bowen who could guard a player one on one. Our guys are just lazy and unorganized.
We just need to block the lanes like Shaq used to do. Never gave the opposing guards a chance.
That is very insightful, but my response would be "Hell, no!" You need guys, who play defense to be a good defensive team, and your starting five has two average defenders, plus 3 guys ranging from really bad to atrocious as far as defense is concerned. Ben might become above average eventually, maybe even good, and IT might reach below average level, if he really tries, but that still gets you nowhere.
As for Henson debate my point is this:
1)he can't shoot or set good screens, that leaves cutting inside as the only way to punish his defender for leaving him at the start of possession and ignoring him for the rest of it, Henson finishes 59% inside, which is pretty average for the guy with a lot of offensive rebounds, so he doesn't look like very good finisher inside,
2)so far he hasn't shown he has an impact on defense despite his block rate, so he might be another McGee.
Given that and pretty steep asking price, I'm just not that interested.
As for Henson debate my point is this:
1)he can't shoot or set good screens, that leaves cutting inside as the only way to punish his defender for leaving him at the start of possession and ignoring him for the rest of it, Henson finishes 59% inside, which is pretty average for the guy with a lot of offensive rebounds, so he doesn't look like very good finisher inside,
2)so far he hasn't shown he has an impact on defense despite his block rate, so he might be another McGee.
Given that and pretty steep asking price, I'm just not that interested.
I like the 2 trades for Sanders and Afflalo
http://aroyalpain.com/2014/02/16/royal-reflections-possible-trade-ideas-kings-nba-trade-deadline/
http://aroyalpain.com/2014/02/16/royal-reflections-possible-trade-ideas-kings-nba-trade-deadline/
What are you using to determine Henson's defensive impact? The Bucks are terrible. And not only are they terrible, they barely have any talent. I would throw away any team statistics if that is what you are using. That team is a mess.
I think Henson has a good head on his shoulders, and that's why I like him (aside from his obvious rim protector traits). He was one of my favorite college players during his time at UNC. Never got the ball, never really cared, and stayed there until he thought he was ready. I may be bias towards him, but I like him a lot.
He's only 23. I'd take his head over both McGee and Jordan's. He blocks shots like those guys, but I think he knows his role much better, and I think he likes his role more than those guys do. McGee, in particular, thinks he's something he's not. I think he'd be a very nice complement to Cousins.
I mean, if we are looking for an established defensive power forward who can block shots, and shoot, AND is available .. good luck finding that guy.
I'm not sure where this conversation started anyway. I'd be very surprised if the Bucks dealt him.
I think Henson has a good head on his shoulders, and that's why I like him (aside from his obvious rim protector traits). He was one of my favorite college players during his time at UNC. Never got the ball, never really cared, and stayed there until he thought he was ready. I may be bias towards him, but I like him a lot.
He's only 23. I'd take his head over both McGee and Jordan's. He blocks shots like those guys, but I think he knows his role much better, and I think he likes his role more than those guys do. McGee, in particular, thinks he's something he's not. I think he'd be a very nice complement to Cousins.
I mean, if we are looking for an established defensive power forward who can block shots, and shoot, AND is available .. good luck finding that guy.
I'm not sure where this conversation started anyway. I'd be very surprised if the Bucks dealt him.
I don't think I advocated a stretch four. I simply mentioned why the concept has become popular. I love how people take what you say and twist it into what they want. One of the reasons I don't get involved in these discussions much anymore. They become more about being right, than sharing of information.
Your joking right? Anderson can't play PF in the NBA. He's a decent to good rebounder in college as a SF, but in the NBA, with his slight build, he would get killed. Plus, there's no way in hell we'd draft Anderson where were drafting. Anderson isn't a lottery pick. More than likely he goes at the bottom of the first round, and maybe even at the top of the second round.
+/- stats always have a giant "?" hovering over them for me because they are so team/substitute/rotation dependent. Henson actually probably has one of the worst +/- lines in the entire NBA this year, on both sides of the ball. But that really doesn't pass the eye test. The Bucks best defensive big man by a mile according to +/-? Zaza Pachulia. Now maybe there is something there with him being their only legit NBA big body, so muscle in the post and on the boards. but his defensive +/- dwarfs Sanders'. It dwarfs Marc Gasol's. So is that a clean stat?
Meanwhile Henson charts out at nearly 6pts worse per 100 possessions on defense. Of course Tyson Chandler charts out at nearly +5 himself, so maybe he's in good company.
Here are how our Kings rate in +/- stats, with notes as to likely accuracy:
Derrick Williams
+2.6pts OFF, +7.1pts DEF -- feels exaggerated, but roughly accurate. Good for offense, Lousy defense.
Marcus Thornton
-0.9pts OFF, -4.9pts DEF -- see what I mean? Stats say Thornton is a flat defensive stopper. I say yes he tries, but our alternatives are just awful.
DeMarcus Cousins
+2.6pts OFF, -3.9pts DEF -- probably understates the offensive impact, but defensively likely about right. The old narrative is dead. all we have on defense.
Isaiah Thomas
+6.6pts OFF, -1.6pts DEF -- offense there is the big one, and no surprise. He is our only PG. But defensively again...options this year? Greivis and Jimmer.
Jason Thompson
+2.3pts OFF, -0.4pts DEF -- feels higher than expected on offense, and maybe even slightly understated on defense this year, but solid.
Rudy Gay
+5.9pts OFF, +1.7pts DEF -- juices our offense, but a net negative on defense.
Jimmer Fredette
-1.0pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- the -1.0 could = not a PG, or might be replaces IT and plays with scrubs. +/- says defense is still terrible. Does eye test?
Quincy Acy
+1.2pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- Do you believe that Acy makes the offense better while is a terrible defender? Maybe because he plays C in place of Cuz?
Ben McLemore
+0.4pts OFF, +5.1pts DEF -- maybe about right? Certainly no coincidence the way he and Thornton's numbers matchup.
You will notice BTW? These sorts of +/- stats suggest that our 5 starters get it done relatively speaking, and its our bench guys who collectively cannot defend and are responsible for our awfulness. Is that really the narrative?
In fact overall +/- suggest:
Cuz +0.0
IT +0.1
Gay +0.3
Thornton -0.1
Thompson -1.1 (weak link, but best option for a 5th)
Actually would be a .500 team if not for their teammates. Is that accurate? Dunno.
Do know this: Henson is a -11.0 per 100 in +/- this season, which doesn't matchup at all with how he's thought of.
Meanwhile Henson charts out at nearly 6pts worse per 100 possessions on defense. Of course Tyson Chandler charts out at nearly +5 himself, so maybe he's in good company.
Here are how our Kings rate in +/- stats, with notes as to likely accuracy:
Derrick Williams
+2.6pts OFF, +7.1pts DEF -- feels exaggerated, but roughly accurate. Good for offense, Lousy defense.
Marcus Thornton
-0.9pts OFF, -4.9pts DEF -- see what I mean? Stats say Thornton is a flat defensive stopper. I say yes he tries, but our alternatives are just awful.
DeMarcus Cousins
+2.6pts OFF, -3.9pts DEF -- probably understates the offensive impact, but defensively likely about right. The old narrative is dead. all we have on defense.
Isaiah Thomas
+6.6pts OFF, -1.6pts DEF -- offense there is the big one, and no surprise. He is our only PG. But defensively again...options this year? Greivis and Jimmer.
Jason Thompson
+2.3pts OFF, -0.4pts DEF -- feels higher than expected on offense, and maybe even slightly understated on defense this year, but solid.
Rudy Gay
+5.9pts OFF, +1.7pts DEF -- juices our offense, but a net negative on defense.
Jimmer Fredette
-1.0pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- the -1.0 could = not a PG, or might be replaces IT and plays with scrubs. +/- says defense is still terrible. Does eye test?
Quincy Acy
+1.2pts OFF, +5.5pts DEF -- Do you believe that Acy makes the offense better while is a terrible defender? Maybe because he plays C in place of Cuz?
Ben McLemore
+0.4pts OFF, +5.1pts DEF -- maybe about right? Certainly no coincidence the way he and Thornton's numbers matchup.
You will notice BTW? These sorts of +/- stats suggest that our 5 starters get it done relatively speaking, and its our bench guys who collectively cannot defend and are responsible for our awfulness. Is that really the narrative?
In fact overall +/- suggest:
Cuz +0.0
IT +0.1
Gay +0.3
Thornton -0.1
Thompson -1.1 (weak link, but best option for a 5th)
Actually would be a .500 team if not for their teammates. Is that accurate? Dunno.
Do know this: Henson is a -11.0 per 100 in +/- this season, which doesn't matchup at all with how he's thought of.
I was just wondering. What if the Kings DID NOT make any significant trades this week? Looks like the asking prices are too high in most cases. The Kings say they want to build for the future so drafting a lottery pick is one way to start. This is the quietest time I ever remember 3 days before the draft and a really good draft at that. Pass first PG for future who can defend? Jimmer and McCallum? hard to say. Outside shooters in 45% range. A backup big for sure. A scoring PF who can defend. And the SG's. MT I think can be quite good if he knows he will get his 30 min/gm. McLemore will begin to emerge for more minutes next year. And Coach and owner have said multiple time that the rebuild will take a year or two.
So would not surprise me one bit if no major trade went down this week for the Kings. Andre Miller? Wouldn't he just be a year or so rental? Beno? hmmmm.....
So would not surprise me one bit if no major trade went down this week for the Kings. Andre Miller? Wouldn't he just be a year or so rental? Beno? hmmmm.....
There is a danger in not continuing to move forward. The fanbase is certainly leaking back away as we speak. But more importantly is this: it puts colossal pressure on the team this summer. Here's disaster: this time next year Cuz has just missed the All Star game again because we struck out in free agency (who wants to play for a basement team?) and missed on another draft pick, and hence are lottery bound again. How long do you think Cuz and his agent tolerates us ****ing up his legacy? How do you keep the fans coming with the saved the team glow fading and your own incompetence becoming evident?
Gotta keep moving forward if you can. There is a timer on this project.
Gotta keep moving forward if you can. There is a timer on this project.
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