Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...
- Thread starter miltonap
- Start date
I posted something similar in the prospects forum but figured I'd add it here. Lots of talk on Gordon and his comps...I think I like the Marion comp a lot but Gordon is a tough one. I think if we were to draft him its because Malone would see him in the role that Draymond Green had for him in Golden State. They used Green in situations to defend 2's, 3's and 4's ....the 4's being stretch 4 types. You play him with Curry and Klay and you dont need him to shoot. Since his 1st year Green has added a 3point shot.
I can see Gordon being used as a guy to guard 3's, 4's and maybe some 2's. I'd say similar to what Mbah a Moute did for a bit here but just younger and way more athletic....with the potential to add a 3 point shot. Could we use a guy like that? Yes. Is that what you want to spend the pick at 8 on? Only if you see nothing else at 8. You always hope for a starting type player but there may not be one at that point on the board....I'm assuming the big 7 are off the board.
I can see Gordon being used as a guy to guard 3's, 4's and maybe some 2's. I'd say similar to what Mbah a Moute did for a bit here but just younger and way more athletic....with the potential to add a 3 point shot. Could we use a guy like that? Yes. Is that what you want to spend the pick at 8 on? Only if you see nothing else at 8. You always hope for a starting type player but there may not be one at that point on the board....I'm assuming the big 7 are off the board.
I can't get excited about Gordon. We need to look at Elfrid Peyton if we're keeping the pick. Something most don't know about him is that he's one of the youngest players in the draft (younger than some freshmen) despite being a 3 year college player. He's still very young and to put up 19/6/6/2, albeit against weaker competition, while having his size and athleticism is very intriguing. At this point I'd rather take Peyton, even at 8, than Gordon. Though you can probably trade down and still get him. I'd imagine he'll rise up the boards though during workouts.
I want Payron over Gordon at 8.
What are the chances that Elfrid Payton develops into a Rondo/Wall hybrid and is the best PG taken in this draft down the road?
Chad Ford
Well ... that's certainly a best case scenario. I love Payton and think he's the sleeper of the draft -- something I've been saying for months. The guy he reminds me the most of is a young Gary Payton. Same game, same body and similar toughness on the court. But that's obviously a ceiling for him. But if he had played at Kentucky or Duke? He'd be a lock for the Top 10. After Exum and Smart are gone, he'll battle Tyler Ennis for the next point guard off the board. I think the Kings at No. 8 are probably his ceiling. Hornets at 9, Magic at 12, Hawks at 15, Celtics at 17 are other options. Don't think he slides past Toronto at 20.
What are the chances that Elfrid Payton develops into a Rondo/Wall hybrid and is the best PG taken in this draft down the road?
Chad Ford
Well ... that's certainly a best case scenario. I love Payton and think he's the sleeper of the draft -- something I've been saying for months. The guy he reminds me the most of is a young Gary Payton. Same game, same body and similar toughness on the court. But that's obviously a ceiling for him. But if he had played at Kentucky or Duke? He'd be a lock for the Top 10. After Exum and Smart are gone, he'll battle Tyler Ennis for the next point guard off the board. I think the Kings at No. 8 are probably his ceiling. Hornets at 9, Magic at 12, Hawks at 15, Celtics at 17 are other options. Don't think he slides past Toronto at 20.
Normally I'd agree with you, but seeing what UCLA has made players like Westbrook, Holiday etc look like in recent years suggests that LaVine may have suffered from similar treatment. Not that I'm hugely confident in him, but UCLA has a habit of making big talents look very average. I'd be OK with taking a flier on LaVine, but only if it's a trade down and we get someone else too. He's clearly a risk to bust, but he obviously has the elite athleticism, good shooter and can handle the ball. Like his personality too, very confident. But yeah, he's not a sure thing.
I was very unsure about Gordon as well, because of the positional issues. He's 220 lbs and doesn't have the frame to bang with NBA PFs, and questionable ability to space the floor against SFs. He's a guy that might require crossmatching--I can see him defending NBA SFs well, and at PF use his speed and athleticism to take advantage of slower bulkier ones offensively.
We've had a slew of names brought up, but no direct fit. He's not Kenneth Faried--not that level of rebounder, obviously. He's not Andrei Kirilenko--his arms aren't inspector gadget-freakish as Kiri's. He's obviously not Blake Griffin. I'm not sure if he has the second and third jump of Shawn Marion--those steal and block rates, and probably rebound rates, won't match up. I think that's the fear--the lack of a snug comparison. Many have brought up MKG as well, and MKG's really shown an offensive slump--guy shot 74% on free throws in college compared to Gordon's 42%, and has no jumper. Wonder if that bodes well for Gordon.
But I still like him, even pricing him as a SF/PF hybrid which I think will happen in the league. He has the passing ability to really be a SF, even if he's an offensive liability at the position. There's a lot of intangibles to believe that Gordon will figure it out, even if MKG had those same intangibles (I'll just blame it on Charlotte's offensive-toxic environment). As a full PF, I'm obviously putting him in the early 20s. As a SF/PF hybrid, he's right at our pick range. And that's the likely positional outcome for him.
As an aside, nbadraft.net and DX have listed Gordon as a PF all season, without any hint of the SF/PF as possible positions for the NBA. That's very weird.
We've had a slew of names brought up, but no direct fit. He's not Kenneth Faried--not that level of rebounder, obviously. He's not Andrei Kirilenko--his arms aren't inspector gadget-freakish as Kiri's. He's obviously not Blake Griffin. I'm not sure if he has the second and third jump of Shawn Marion--those steal and block rates, and probably rebound rates, won't match up. I think that's the fear--the lack of a snug comparison. Many have brought up MKG as well, and MKG's really shown an offensive slump--guy shot 74% on free throws in college compared to Gordon's 42%, and has no jumper. Wonder if that bodes well for Gordon.
But I still like him, even pricing him as a SF/PF hybrid which I think will happen in the league. He has the passing ability to really be a SF, even if he's an offensive liability at the position. There's a lot of intangibles to believe that Gordon will figure it out, even if MKG had those same intangibles (I'll just blame it on Charlotte's offensive-toxic environment). As a full PF, I'm obviously putting him in the early 20s. As a SF/PF hybrid, he's right at our pick range. And that's the likely positional outcome for him.
As an aside, nbadraft.net and DX have listed Gordon as a PF all season, without any hint of the SF/PF as possible positions for the NBA. That's very weird.
http://deanondraft.com/type/aside/
Interesting stuff regarding Gordon, especially the comparison with the FIBAu19 where he did get steals.
Interesting stuff regarding Gordon, especially the comparison with the FIBAu19 where he did get steals.
I am not sold on Gordon or Vonleh (for different reasons) If we cannot get Smart, or Randle then I would most definitely look at trading the pick. Gordon cannot shoot and Vonleh can't block a shot. Being as athletic and tall as he is you would think he would be able to block at least 2-3 shots a game in college. It's a red flag that he does not.
And I know Randle doesn't block shots either, but his game is more polished than Vonleh and I think we couldn't go wrong if we drafted him. Easily a 10rpg+ guy (if not more)
And I know Randle doesn't block shots either, but his game is more polished than Vonleh and I think we couldn't go wrong if we drafted him. Easily a 10rpg+ guy (if not more)
I want payton on the kings. He did play in a weaker conference, but in his 3 games against ranked teams he played very well. Against Baylor: 20/9/7/2. Against Louisville: 12/5/10/2. Again creighton: 24/8/3/2/3. He struggles with his shot, but besides that he seems like an excellent defensive point guard prospect. He reminds me of a hybrid mike Conley/rondo type guard. Hopefully we can swing a deal with the nuggets or wolves to trade down and grab another solid piece while doing so
Posted this in the prospects forum, but Peyton is also one of the youngest players in the draft, younger than some freshmen I think. Which is really odd considering he's a Junior. He went to college at 17 which is why he's so young, which is another advantage for him. I'm a big fan too. Already an excellent defender, the offense is just gravy. Pretty complete on both ends of the floor, just needs to work on his shot, albeit a lot.
I'm pleasantly surprised by all the positive attention Elfrid Payton is getting here. He seems like an ideal fit for us, hopefully our front office crew feels the same way. Of the guys I really like in this draft -- Embiid, Wiggins, Exum, Payton, Capela, Early, J. Young, J. Adams -- I have the least question marks about Payton. He obviously doesn't have as high of a ceiling as Embiid, Wiggins, or Exum but he's got less bust potential too. If you can live with his weaknesses, it seems like the odds are in favor of him making it as a solid starter who brings steady leadership from the PG position and commitment on the defensive end.
While I don't see this happening, would you guys be opposed to trading the 8th pick along with Landry's and Jt's contract to a team that has ample cap room. (Utah) I don't think a team would do it because both players have three years left. But if some team is willing pick up both player's contracts, I would really consider it.
