Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...

[pshn80]

And that's why this idea scares me. I can see it going down like this: Kings trade #8/Ben for Love, Rudy looks at that and says, "Hey, give it a year" and opts in. Salarywise we're hurting a bit and somebody offers IT $9M, so we let him walk. That leaves us going forward into 2014-2015 with Cuz/Love/Gay and literally nobody but McCallum at guard. We pick up a cheap, vet, no-name backcourt since we don't have any money to spend. We push our way into the #7-8 seed. Then at the end of '14-'15, just like he said, Love bolts for a big market. Gay reads the tea leaves and bolts. Our draft pick goes to the Bulls. And our team, going into our final season in Sleep Train, is Cousins, McCallum, and nothing. Nada. Zip. Just a bunch of cap space and maybe an MLE guy we picked up last year.

The crash-and-burn potential is really really high here.

Risk it.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

And that's why this idea scares me. I can see it going down like this: Kings trade #8/Ben for Love, Rudy looks at that and says, "Hey, give it a year" and opts in. Salarywise we're hurting a bit and somebody offers IT $9M, so we let him walk. That leaves us going forward into 2014-2015 with Cuz/Love/Gay and literally nobody but McCallum at guard. We pick up a cheap, vet, no-name backcourt since we don't have any money to spend. We push our way into the #7-8 seed. Then at the end of '14-'15, just like he said, Love bolts for a big market. Gay reads the tea leaves and bolts. Our draft pick goes to the Bulls. And our team, going into our final season in Sleep Train, is Cousins, McCallum, and nothing. Nada. Zip. Just a bunch of cap space and maybe an MLE guy we picked up last year.

The crash-and-burn potential is really really high here.

thank the jesus someone can see farther than acquiring a big name rental. talk about mortgaging the future. whenever you sign and trade you usually end up on the losing end when you have the big talent going out. at that point i don't blame cuz for wanting to force his way out of sac.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Well, to be more precise you are seeing names like Klay and Beal being thrown around as guys those teams don't want to give up. And since those teams don't have lottery picks and aren't planning on returning to the lottery for a long time, if they aren't willing to give something up...

I think we have little shot of making a Love deal given how weak our own assets are. But if we have any shot at all it would be precisely because we are the more determined/risk taking actor, and while we might not have great assets we are willing to throw everything we do have into the deal, whereas maybe other teams with more to lose hold back and try to half ass it.

would you trade for love and swing him to the warriors for barnes, lee & klay?

that would leave the warriors with

bogut
love
iggy
filler
curry

kings would be

cousins
lee
gay/barnes
klay
mccallum

that is a more balanced team with plenty of d & o. 3 pt threats of klay, gay, barnes.. dirty role player in lee and the center piece of cousins

 

[Bricklayer]

I think, if any two offers are considered the 'same' in the Wolves eyes, the Kings will get the benefit of being a bad team here. Sacramento is the perfect place for the Wolves to send Love if it's not outside the Western Conference.

A bottom of the NBA franchise that everyone is already saying Love won't resign with. If Love comes here and bolts after one season, the Wolves look better for pulling the trigger. Everyone wants to look smart.

They'd probably rather send him East I would think. But we do the benefit of having already worked with them on the DWill trade. Of course we probably got the better of that so maybe not the help it could be, but obviously PDA knows Flip as a negotiator.

Its just that when you are dealing with a Love, its not in any way a normal negotiation. the owner will have to be involved, the agent, other teams will be bidding. Its not really about just PDA and flip handshaking a deal behind closed door.s

 

[Bricklayer]

thank the jesus someone can see farther than acquiring a big name rental. talk about mortgaging the future. whenever you sign and trade you usually end up on the losing end when you have the big talent going out. at that point i don't blame cuz for wanting to force his way out of sac.

We win, its entirely possible its not a rental. That simple. Its the sort of risk you can take because the payoff is so huge. And frankly a couple of #7/#8 picks is not much of a haul at all for a guy who puts up Cousins numbers. People, not just here, always get nitpicky about what to give up or not give up to get a major star. But in basketball that's not the score. You give up EVERYTHING to get a major star...except another major star.

Now if you can figure out another less risky way to nudge into the playoffs or some sort that certainly is a consideration. But realistically without a Love, who is almost never available to a little market, you will eventually be capped anyway. And failing to make that playoff push is absolutely unacceptable, and absolutely possible with a rookie SG who struggled, and a #8 pick with ?? over its head.

Had a similar argument with my brother 15 years ago when we got Webber. When you see a young megatalent, failing for whatever reason, and you get a shot...you take it. You just take it. Then you make it work afterwards. With Love, Cousins, and Gay, Mario Chalmers and Ray McCallum work fine as PGs. Reggie Evans is fine as a third big. not ideal, but fine. The challenge would be to find ways of turning either Landry, JT, or both into SGs/SFs. But its a much much easier task than you were faced with before.

 

[randymoss1881]

Who's going to top 8/Ben?

Ben, 8, Thompson, Williams or Landry is a pretty good offer.

We probably have the worst offer of all the teams named in the Love sweepstakes. Matter fact they probably didn't even pick up the phone knowing we wouldn't give them DMC our offer is laughable.

GS, Chicago, Cleveland, Houston, and Boston all have better offers then is. It's basically Ben/8 nobody wants JT/DWill or Landry.

We need to shift the focus to Asik who the Rockets are trying to get rid of instead if this nonsense.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

would you trade for love and swing him to the warriors for barnes, lee & klay?

I would guess that if GS put Klay, Barnes, and Lee on the table for Love, that Minny would take that deal without including us.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

couldn't you trade and then trade again?

 

[Gary]

couldn't you trade and then trade again?

I think you have a time limit to trade and then trade again. After the limit is up then you have to wait a few months.

 

[hrdboild]

I'd probably take Peyton or Capela over Gordon. Both have legitimate positions, great size and length, and are known for their defense. Capela is a bit of a risk but the reward is huge. Big, long, athletic big who rebounds, block shots and defends and is very productive around the basket without needing touches. At some point, when you have that size and athleticism, you're not going to bust unless you have a really low IQ. He's productive in a solid league. I know the Ibaka comparison is the obvious one, but it's a good one in this case. Very similar players at the same point in their careers. While Capela's post game is extremely raw, he actually has occasionally demonstrated a solid foundation of skills with his ability to take players off the dribble. He's very quick, more than the majority of players his size. He's also shown that he has pretty good hands, catching passes etc, he doesn't fumble it around like Embiid for example. He's not really an offensive threat at the moment apart from alley oops, put-backs, and beating his man down the court for easy points, but if he can develop a solid mid-range jumper like Ibaka then you've pretty much got an ideal fit next to Cuz.

He's excellent at defending the pick'n'role and has excellent lateral quickness for a big. He's like a pogo stick with his first and second jumps and has good timing on his shot-blocking. I'm really hoping the FO gives him due consideration because if he works out and we've missed on an ideal fit next to Cuz, well that's going to be inexcusable.

Others here know more about Peyton than I do but I like what I see. I don't see the Rondo comparisons but he looks like he could be a significantly better Livingston. Or maybe even similar to MCW. Big, long, athletic PG who does a little of everything with a shaky outside shot. He's a great defender with very good athleticism. Good passer, gets everyone involved, rebounds, defends. Shot is the clear problem and he needs to get stronger.

If you could trade down for two picks and get both of them I think that'd be a successful draft.

Yeah, I posted that exact same wishlist in the prospect forum in April, so obviously I like this. At the time I thought it would be possible to get them both with Chicago's two picks. Now I'm not even sure that Phoenix's two higher picks would guarantee us both of them. I don't trust mock drafts. Capela is supposedly slipping because of his poor performance in the Hoop Summit, but I doubt it. Super athletic big men who can block shots are always in high demand in the draft. Payton is getting a lot of buzz too and the only thing keeping him out of the top 10 I think is the prevalence of established PGs already on most of the lottery team rosters. That's obviously not the case with us, but most think #8 is too high for Payton. His biggest weakness right now (from a draft predictor's perspective) is lack of national exposure. That's not going to matter when he comes in for one-on-one workouts. If the jumpshot looks NBA ready when he visits teams, he's going to fly up draft boards.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

couldn't you trade and then trade again?

Possibly (it would depend on the details, see below) but I'm just saying that I think Minnesota would prefer Lee/Klay/Barnes to #8/Ben, so they'd just deal directly with GS rather than use us as a middle man.

I think you have a time limit to trade and then trade again. After the limit is up then you have to wait a few months.

The rule is that you have to wait two months after receiving a player if you want to aggregate his salary with another player in the second trade. You can trade him immediately if you do not aggregate the salary in the second trade.

Note that sometimes trades are reported as a single trade but are in fact multiple separate trades. So, for instance, we could deal for Love and then swing Love/D-Will for Lee/Klay/Barnes, because in reality there would be two deals: Love for Lee (works under cap rules by itself, doesn't aggregate Love's salary) and D-Will for Klay/Barnes (works under cap rules).

So, in principle it is possible to turn around and immediately deal a guy you traded for, but there are big restrictions (restrictions that are much less onerous for a big-salary player like Love than they would be for a small-salary player who would need to be salary-aggregated to get any bigger deal). But in this case it seems unlikely that both teams would deal with us as a middle man rather than directly with each other.

 

[The_Jamal]

We win, its entirely possible its not a rental. That simple. Its the sort of risk you can take because the payoff is so huge. And frankly a couple of #7/#8 picks is not much of a haul at all for a guy who puts up Cousins numbers. People, not just here, always get nitpicky about what to give up or not give up to get a major star. But in basketball that's not the score. You give up EVERYTHING to get a major star...except another major star.

Now if you can figure out another less risky way to nudge into the playoffs or some sort that certainly is a consideration. But realistically without a Love, who is almost never available to a little market, you will eventually be capped anyway. And failing to make that playoff push is absolutely unacceptable, and absolutely possible with a rookie SG who struggled, and a #8 pick with ?? over its head.

Had a similar argument with my brother 15 years ago when we got Webber. When you see a young megatalent, failing for whatever reason, and you get a shot...you take it. You just take it. Then you make it work afterwards. With Love, Cousins, and Gay, Mario Chalmers and Ray McCallum work fine as PGs. Reggie Evans is fine as a third big. not ideal, but fine. The challenge would be to find ways of turning either Landry, JT, or both into SGs/SFs. But its a much much easier task than you were faced with before.

This. It's a risk, but it can also pay divedends for our franchise for the next 10 years if it pans out the right way. You simply don't pass up the chance to pair 2 of the best bigs in the NBA together, especially in a league that is shying away from bigs in general. If it blows up in our face, then at least we took the shot at putting a REAL contender together. I prefer that then being stuck in eternal lottery hell for another 5 years. And that's what Love-Cousins duo has the potential to be. That duo has the ability to beat LeBron James and Kevin Durant in the playoffs.

 

[Padrino]

This. It's a risk, but it can also pay divedends for our franchise for the next 10 years if it pans out the right way. You simply don't pass up the chance to pair 2 of the best bigs in the NBA together, especially in a league that is shying away from bigs in general. If it blows up in our face, then at least we took the shot at putting a REAL contender together. I prefer that then being stuck in eternal lottery hell for another 5 years. And that's what Love-Cousins duo has the potential to be. That duo has the ability to beat LeBron James and Kevin Durant in the playoffs.

while i'm fairly hesitant about the risk associated with trading for kevin love without assurances beyond the final year of his contract, the bolded above is actually the element of the equation that attracts me the most to the possibility, however small, of the kings actually pulling off a trade for love. the nba is growing more and more absent of talented big men with which to anchor a franchise on either side of the ball. to own not one but two of the best bigs in the entire nba--both are dominant at the rim, both are adept at getting to the free throw line, both are gifted passers for their respective positions, one has an utterly commanding physical presence, one has lethal range as a jump shooter, oh, and not to mention the fact that each is an absolutely monstrous rebounder--would render most other concerns on the offensive side of the ball relatively moot. defense is another story altogether, but those holes will need to be patched, kevin love or no kevin love...

but on offense, whose gonna stop those two? how would they stop those two? if big cuz is banging down low, k-love is waiting for the set jumper beyond the arc. if k-love is banging down low, big cuz is waiting for the set jumper at 15-18 feet (where he's becoming increasingly reliable). if you determine that there's no room for rudy gay on a team with cousins/love (and gay doesn't opt out), you can easily move his massive ender (as well as his not-insignificant redemption narrative) for complementary pieces (read: 3 and D guys). likewise, if you determine that there's no room for isaiah thomas, you can either eat the unfortunate cost of letting him walk in free agency, or you can re-sign him with intent to trade down the road. or, ideally, you can keep him at a reasonable cost as a super sixth man after an adequate roleplayer who eats fewer shots is acquired to man the starting PG spot...

point is, if you get the opportunity to pair two dominant offensive talents in a league forever shrinking and thinning across the frontcourt positions, you find ways around whatever complications arise in the imperfection of their pairing and the difficulties that pairing may present to the rest of the roster. the perfect team that we're all inclined to hope for is the stuff of myth. there won't be a return to the makeup or style of the golden era kings; that was an unfortunately rare occurrence, a unicorn of sorts that the nba will likely never see again. hell, even more pedestrian hopes can be tough to come by in reality; the likelihood of trading for kevin love may not be much less than the likelihood of finding an adequate rim protector to start alongside demarcus cousins, for example. and while someone like serge ibaka could be thought of as the ideal frontcourt mate for cousins, such a player is damn near impossible to acquire before we even consider the difficulties of talent acquisition that small market franchises face...

in the contemporary nba, you get your stars, however complementary they may or may not be, and you build outward, especially if it only costs you a "?" at #8 in this year's draft, a "?" in ben mclemore, and whatever combination of the kings' remaining players the timberwolves may want, outside of demarcus cousins, of course. would such a package get the deal done? no, probably not (at least, not without assistance from a third team). but if it does get the deal done, i have to think that you pull the trigger with some hesitation, and very few regrets. hence the phrase "swinging for the fences." if the experiment fails and kevin love were to leave after one season, or if kevin love were to leave after one season in spite of any success the kings may have achieved in that time, it would be a tremendous blow that would be very difficult to come back from. but the kings would still have two years remaining on demarcus cousins' contract to try and pick up those pieces. they wouldn't have many options, but they'd still have one helluva trade chip in demarcus, should it become untenable to convince him to stay in the wake of such a failure. it's unsettling to think of yet another reboot after enduring so many losing seasons, but if the kings were to swing for the fences with kevin love and miss, it's not as if they'd be left with nothing and with no way forward...

 

[Bibby10AZ]

One-On-One With Arizona's Aaron Gordon

 

[DeMoN]

Is there a change Gordon could grow to near or over 7 feet? He's only 18, i say we get him.

 

[Mass]

would you trade for love and swing him to the warriors for barnes, lee & klay?

that would leave the warriors with

bogut
love
iggy
filler
curry

kings would be

cousins
lee
gay/barnes
klay
mccallum

that is a more balanced team with plenty of d & o. 3 pt threats of klay, gay, barnes.. dirty role player in lee and the center piece of cousins

Why would Minnesota do that? They could just trade Love to the Warriors for that package. It's better than what we can offer.

 

[KingMilz]

Why would Minnesota do that? They could just trade Love to the Warriors for that package. It's better than what we can offer.

Why would the Warriors give up Klay Thompson and Barnes when Love is marginally better than David Lee?

 

[Tetsujin]

Is there a change Gordon could grow to near or over 7 feet? He's only 18, i say we get him.

Is there a chance that I become a supermodel? Yes. Is it likely? Hell no.

 

[Mass]

Why would the Warriors give up Klay Thompson and Barnes when Love is marginally better than David Lee?

?!? I was answering Big Cuz 15. My point is that if the Dubs are willing to trade Lee, Thompson and Barnes for Love, Minnesota is going to take that offer instead of ours. So we won't be able to get Love and send him to GS for those 3.
I wasn't suggesting the Warriors would make that offer...

 

[smellfungus]

So if you're keeping the pick, who do you take at 8?

Big 3 are gone. Big 5 are gone (Exum/Smart). Big 7 are gone (Randle/Vonleh).

Then you've got Ennis and Gordon.

Then picks 10-20 look relatively equal. Then you have another 10 after that that are intriguing. Then you have another 10 sprinkled throughout the 2nd round that could be boom/bust.

Do you go off the board at 8 and take Payton? Or take Ennis even though you have Thomas/McCallum?

Or do you take Anderson?

I really like Saric. Nurkic too, but he's a C.

Or one of Harris, Capela, Payne, Porzingis, Adams, Inglis, McDaniels?

I hate McDermott. Stauskus is OK but projects as a poor defender. I hate the tweeners (Warren, Grant). Hood looks like a matador on defense.

James Young looks OK, could be good, or could be not good at anything (simply average).

My board looks like this:

Parker
Embiid
Smart
Wiggins
Exum
------
Randle
Vonleh
------
Ennis
Gordon
-------
Saric
Nurkic
McDaniels
Anderson
Harris
Payton
Payne
Capela
Inglis
Young
Adams
Porzingis
Stauskus
------
Warren
Hood
Grant
McDermott
and a bunch of 2nd rounders

 

[Dime Dropper]

Here's Smart's workout. As I've repeatedly said, his shot is not broken, he just needs to improve it. His form is fine when his feet are set and he doesn't kick his legs, which it looks like he's been working on, or at least is conscious of. Anyone saying his form is worse than Tyreke's is just wrong, to be blunt.

 

[randymoss1881]

Why would the Warriors give up Klay Thompson and Barnes when Love is marginally better than David Lee?

You don't actually think the difference between those 2 is only marginal? And GS will be stupid not tj give those 2 away.

 

[Gary]

Here's Smart's workout. As I've repeatedly said, his shot is not broken, he just needs to improve it. His form is fine when his feet are set and he doesn't kick his legs, which it looks like he's been working on, or at least is conscious of. Anyone saying his form is worse than Tyreke's is just wrong, to be blunt.

I am glad someone else likes Smart as much as I do. I doubt we will have a chance to draft him unless we move up.

 

[dude12]

I am glad someone else likes Smart as much as I do. I doubt we will have a chance to draft him unless we move up.

Smart is going to be a star....he will be gone unfortunately.

 

[randymoss1881]

On the Dennis Schroder trade it looks like Philly lives Exum and if Wiggins is gone they might draft him and look at MCW trade options. I'd really like a trade for him for the 8 pick

 

[Dime Dropper]

On the Dennis Schroder trade it looks like Philly lives Exum and if Wiggins is gone they might draft him and look at MCW trade options. I'd really like a trade for him for the 8 pick

They're not going to trade MCW for 8. If they love Exum they can just take him and have a 2 lead guard set-up, which would easily work given that both Exum and MCW are very big and could guard most SGs. If they do take Exum I'd be more interested in throwing the kitchen sink (well, McLemore/8/JT) for Orlando's 4/filler. That said I'm pretty Sure Orlando would be even happier with Embiid/Parker than Exum, so unlikely that it would fly. But if Embiid was sitting there and they were scared about his back problems, I'd be doing everything to convince them that they can get their guy at 8.

 

[Bricklayer]

WANT.

Is there anyway we could facilitate Love to Cleveland instead and score their #1 out of the deal?

 

[Dime Dropper]

Cleveland may actually consider trading the 1 for Love, but there'd be no need for us. Can't imagine Minny liking 8/Ben more than 1/Waiters or whoever. But yeah, this really is the year to have the first pick. If Cleveland keeps the pick and doesn't take Embiid, then they never deserve another top 3 pick again. Actually either way they don't deserve another top 3 pick! But Embiid would just be a dream fit for us (no pun intended).

 

[The_Jamal]

Cleveland may actually consider trading the 1 for Love, but there'd be no need for us. Can't imagine Minny liking 8/Ben more than 1/Waiters or whoever. But yeah, this really is the year to have the first pick. If Cleveland keeps the pick and doesn't take Embiid, then they never deserve another top 3 pick again. Actually either way they don't deserve another top 3 pick! But Embiid would just be a dream fit for us (no pun intended).

The issue I see with that is Cleveland will want assurances that Love signs an extension. And that's why I see us as being a legit contender to actually land a deal. If the reports are true, then we don't care about assurances from Love or not. And it's one thing to risk a vastly unproven Ben McLemore and Aaron Gordon/Marcus Smart type of prospect. It's totally a different thing to risk Embiid/Parker/Wiggins without assurances of him resigning.

 

[Dime Dropper]

The issue I see with that is Cleveland will want assurances that Love signs an extension. And that's why I see us as being a legit contender to actually land a deal. If the reports are true, then we don't care about assurances from Love or not. And it's one thing to risk a vastly unproven Ben McLemore and Aaron Gordon/Marcus Smart type of prospect. It's totally a different thing to risk Embiid/Parker/Wiggins without assurances of him resigning.

I agree, but you have to remember it's Cleveland. They've done much stupider things. Not saying they will, but if they want Love, they're in the best position to get him. I'd much prefer to have Embiid than Love, but there's no way to make it happen. I'd even give up future first rounders (possibly even unprotected), but we can't actually do that due to the restrictions. Embiid and Cousins would be dominant.