Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm just at the point where I feel the randomization of it has become worse than the problem it was designed to fix.

I can see that. That's why I favor a subjective system. Let front offices vote to determine the order of the picks. You can pretty much guarantee that the "wisdom of the crowd" would get the best pick to the worst teams. At the same time, teams that "tank" (something that everybody subjectively says they can put a finger on but nobody has ever objectively identified) could still have that taken into account.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I just don't get how you can look at a system which awards the top pick to the same team in 3 out of 4 years and say "nope, that system is working just fine". If the purpose of the draft is to ensure that incoming talent gets spread evenly and fairly throughout the league, than it quite obviously is not working.

The purpose of the draft is somewhat as you describe, but the purpose of the draft lottery is to limit the incentive to lose on purpose. Cleveland clearly was not losing on purpose (see the trades for Deng, Hawes, etc). Now, some teams were also clearly not trying to compete in 2013-14 (Boston, although their trade with the Nets is looking savvy in hindsight; Utah letting Millsap/Jefferson walk; Philly playing d-league players all season). None of those teams were rewarded with the top pick.

Is it perfect? No. Are there tweaks that could/should be made? Absolutely. But if the purpose of the lottery is to avoid awarding losing, I'd say it did its job with Cleveland.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I can see that. That's why I favor a subjective system. Let front offices vote to determine the order of the picks. You can pretty much guarantee that the "wisdom of the crowd" would get the best pick to the worst teams. At the same time, teams that "tank" (something that everybody subjectively says they can put a finger on but nobody has ever objectively identified) could still have that taken into account.

What's to stop everyone from voting to give the best picks to the teams with the perceived most incompetent/limited front offices, in the hopes that they'll whiff and good players will be available later on? Wouldn't that, too, just reward poor management? Heck, given Cleveland's pick of Bennett last season, it would have been smart for the FOs to give them the first pick again!

 

[pshn80]

I hope none of those upset with Cleveland getting selected would not be just as upset if Sacramento got it. In the scheme of things the Kings deserved nothing better than the 7th pick. Unfortunately they pick at 8.

 

[Gary]

Nope: http://nbadraft.net/players/marcus-smart
And this from Draft Express: Weaknesses: Solid athlete, but not spectacular. Not the quickest or most explosive guard


He's a 7 out of 10, which corresponds to my observations. That's less than average for an NBA pg. By the way, Schroeder was a 10, which I also think fits. Another example would be Teague. I think he was also a 10 on this scale; he was a 10 on my quickness scale when he was drafted. Maybe you are judging Smart in comparison to college players, not NBA players.

I disagree... The guy played the lanes VERY well and his hand speed was amazing as well as his foot speed when defending. This was the player that I pretty much watched all year. Except for some Memphis players since my pops is from there, but none of them are going to be drafted by us. I would agree about the athleticism though.

I have a feeling that they are grading his quickness on his offensive ability. That's how it sounds anyway. I am talking about defense.. Offensively he can just bully opposing guards and he's never had an issue creating his own shot.


This is from the same article;
Uses his mixture of quickness, strength, instincts, and aggressiveness to get to the rim, then uses his big frame and excellent body control to finish through contact…In addition to his scoring ability, Smart doubles as an excellent passer and playmaker. He has great court vision and is willing to make the unselfish play to set up his teammates. Averaged 5.8 assists per 40 minutes last season...Very sound perimeter defender who has the length (6'8" wingspan), the strength, and the lateral quickness to keep his man in front of him.

Basically if we were able to draft Smart then we would have a great PG for years to come. I don't think he will have a single problem transitioning to the NBA. He can defend like Mike Conley and offensively he can bully opposing guards in the paint like Tyreke Evans.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

What's to stop everyone from voting to give the best picks to the teams with the perceived most incompetent/limited front offices, in the hopes that they'll whiff and good players will be available later on? Wouldn't that, too, just reward poor management? Heck, given Cleveland's pick of Bennett last season, it would have been smart for the FOs to give them the first pick again!

Nothing is to stop that. If Cleveland's front office is bad enough that the best strategy for the league is to keep letting them have the #1 pick, so be it. That's kind of the point of my subjectivity idea - the team the rest of the league thinks can most be afforded the #1 pick is probably the team that most deserves it from a competitive balance point of view (and I think "reverse" draft order is, in the end, 100% about competitive balance).

I think the frustration from this year's lottery comes from the facts that 1) the most needful teams didn't win, and 2) the randomization keeps picking the same team.

Well, the current lotto will do that. Can't do anything about it. It might be a real good long time before we see another three #1s in four years, but random goes that way sometimes. But the same thing could happen with a straight reverse order draft, only there's more concern about tanking. And the same thing could happen in a subjectively voted draft, but at least blatant tanking is unlikely to help.

This is all a very long way of saying that when I mentioned subjectivity, I meant it as an alternative to randomization to stop tanking, not as an alternative to randomization to avoid streaks of #1 picks. You could have a repeat-tier provision in just about any system to prevent that, if need be. Just don't propose The Wheel!

 

[Bricklayer]

Saw this tweet:



The twitter page doesn't look as if it would have any particular inside sources, and has no affiliation to the Kings. It's just a rumours/opinions page, so I'd imagine it's nothing to get excited about. Especially considering we don't really have the ammunition to move into the top 3.


Smart, Embiid, Smart and others worked out in front of most GMs earlier today.

I would find the Embiid report incredibly encouraging if there was an ounce of credibility to it. When Cleveland announced they were receiving calls immediately after getting the pick, their GM came out and said they were desperate to improve and were going to think outside the box, and then Sam Amico (yes I know) came along saying Embiid might be out of the running for #1 for them because of injury concerns...I just had to give it a thought.

Here's the unfortunate part about that thought: beyond the unlikelihood of actually trading for a #1 overall pick, every single vcaluable asset in the franchise is encumbered right now up through the draft, and most of them through free agency. Rudy can opt out, IT is restricted, we can't trade the #8 until draft day unless its to Chicago because of our lingering conditional pick obligation, and for the same reason can't offer future #1s. So we are particularly ill situated to even think about doing it unless you are saying trade Cousins for that pick, in which case, I hope somebody dumps their Big Gulp on gerbil's head when they run into him at AM/PM.

Here is the absolute best non-Cousins offer we could possibly make to the Cavs, given available assets, on draft day: #8pick (who we'd draft for them), Ben McLemore, Derrick Williams. That's it. Neither Rudy nor IT are available. Nor future picks. I guess you could throw in McCallum, but I doubt he has much value. Maybe we could take a bad contract off their hands (if they still want to dump Jack or something). But that package can't possibly be the best offer they'd have for the #1 pick in this draft.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So we are particularly ill situated to even think about doing it unless you are saying trade Cousins for that piock, in which case, I hope somebody dumps their Big Gulp on gerbil's head when they run into him at AM/PM.

C'mon Brick, Big Gulps are from 7-Eleven, not AM/PM.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Yeah, Embiid is just a pipe dream for us. It is the Cavs though and PDA is aggressive, so there may be a 0.01 % chance, but then you look at what we can offer in comparison to other teams. Just not going to happen. It's a real shame.

Can you imagine if Embiid slips to 3 and Philly take him? Good luck finishing at the rim with Embiid/Noel in the frontcourt.

 

[KingMilz]

For anyone who wanted Taj Gibson

General manager Gar Forman has remained poker-faced about Carlos Boozer’s future as a Bull, but several sources indicated that reserve power forward Taj Gibson was told by the coaching staff to start preparing this offseason to be a starter in 2014-15.

 

[Spike]

That doesn't necessarily specify where he will be a starter.

 

[Bricklayer]

For anyone who wanted Taj Gibson

That actually doesn't change things much. first, because of course its an open question if the same coaches are going to come back, and that's always been a key to thinking personnel they favor might move. Second because they'd sell their mother in order to get another superstar in there, and Taj ain't their mother. If they come back same staff, no new star, then sure, I am sure that is the plan.

 

[Dime Dropper]

PDA was at a workout featuring Gordon and LeVine yesterday.

Eric Pincus ‏@EricPincus 18h
Lakers Glen Carraro/Ryan West - Celtics Danny Ainge - Kings Pete D'Alessandro all present at workout - Gordon/LaVine others w BDA Sports

I really have a gut feeling that we'll take Gordon. He seems to be at the center of every rumour etc.. I don't hate him as a prospect, but I worry a lot about him. I'd rather trade down and look at Peyton/Capela than take Gordon.

 

[randymoss1881]

That actually doesn't change things much. first, because of course its an open question if the same coaches are going to come back, and that's always been a key to thinking personnel they favor might move. Second because they'd sell their mother in order to get another superstar in there, and Taj ain't their mother. If they come back same staff, no new star, then sure, I am sure that is the plan.

We have a better shot getting Carmelo than getting gibson.

 

[roasthawg]

PDA was at a workout featuring Gordon and LeVine yesterday.



I really have a gut feeling that we'll take Gordon. He seems to be at the center of every rumour etc.. I don't hate him as a prospect, but I worry a lot about him. I'd rather trade down and look at Peyton/Capela than take Gordon.

Really, really hoping so! This is a guy I really feel we'll love having on our team for a long long time. Great defensive upside with solid offensive upside as well as great character and a local kid to boot. What's not to like? Hoping we don't trade out and just take Gordon and be very, very happy!

 

[Dime Dropper]

Really, really hoping so! This is a guy I really feel we'll love having on our team for a long long time. Great defensive upside with solid offensive upside as well as great character and a local kid to boot. What's not to like? Hoping we don't trade out and just take Gordon and be very, very happy!

There's a few things not to like. Can't shoot, does he really have a position? Too weak for PF, is he quick enough for SF? I do like his defense, work ethic and character. I'm just really on the fence with him. He's kind of a tweener. I don't really care that he's local, it shouldn't come into account when drafting in my opinion. If we drafted him I wouldn't hate it, I'd keep an open mind. But he probably won't be top of my list.

 

[Bricklayer]

We have a better shot getting Carmelo than getting gibson.

I think you rather dramatically overrate Gibson, or underrate the possibilities of Thibodeau leaving or Love coming. If Thibs goes, all bets are off for older vets on the team (and Gibson does not seem old, but he'll be 29) with contracts. Noah probably excepted just because he's decorated now, seen as team leader etc. And in order to score Love, they would drive Gibson to the airport themselves if it would help. Hence my thought about slipping them the #8 in exchange for a package including him.

But it may go as you say. Thibs may stay, the Warriors may put up too good an offer for Love for Chicago to match. Things could stay status quo there. But the overwhelming impression is that the ownership/front office is a lot less amused with 74-68 games played to earn a first round playoff exit than is Thibs. Never underestimate the shortsightedness of an impatient owner. Cost us Adelman once. Thibs could easily be ousted here (ousted may not even be 100% an accurate word as he seems to have half a thought himself).

 

[Dime Dropper]

Gibson is a solid fit but completely overrated on this forum. He's a good defender but not an anchor. I might give up 8 for him but I'd want a first rounder back along with him.

 

[dude12]

PDA was at a workout featuring Gordon and LeVine yesterday.



I really have a gut feeling that we'll take Gordon. He seems to be at the center of every rumour etc.. I don't hate him as a prospect, but I worry a lot about him. I'd rather trade down and look at Peyton/Capela than take Gordon.

I saw an interesting take on Gordon saying that his range(potential of game) is somewhere between Blake Griffin and David Lee. Not as athletic as Blake, not as polished as Lee. The thought of plugging in a guy like that is tantalizing but the thought of him as another undersized tweener who doesn't quite pan out in the NBA is a scary prospect.

 

[Bricklayer]

I saw an interesting take on Gordon saying that his range(potential of game) is somewhere between Blake Griffin and David Lee. Not as athletic as Blake, not as polished as Lee. The thought of plugging in a guy like that is tantalizing but the thought of him as another undersized tweener who doesn't quite pan out in the NBA is a scary prospect.

Um...who made that "take"?

 

[dude12]

Um...who made that "take"?

Take it fwiw, Steve Kyler. He also has Utah taking Doug McDermott at 5, iirc, which tends to ruin one's credibility. I've also seen Gordon compared to McDyess ( I don't see that one at all).....

What I fear the range on Gordon is is Thomas Robinson to a Kenneth Faried. Faried isn't so bad but TRob would be a miss at 8.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Yeah, Embiid is just a pipe dream for us. It is the Cavs though and PDA is aggressive, so there may be a 0.01 % chance, but then you look at what we can offer in comparison to other teams. Just not going to happen. It's a real shame.

Can you imagine if Embiid slips to 3 and Philly take him? Good luck finishing at the rim with Embiid/Noel in the frontcourt.

i could certainly see him going 3rd. I think Cavs are taking Wiggins for sure

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Take it fwiw, Steve Kyler. He also has Utah taking Doug McDermott at 5, iirc, which tends to ruin one's credibility. I've also seen Gordon compared to McDyess ( I don't see that one at all).....

What I fear the range on Gordon is is Thomas Robinson to a Kenneth Faried. Faried isn't so bad but TRob would be a miss at 8.

I still stand by the Marion comparisons. Strong, athletic player stuck between the three and four, tenacious defender, rebounder, poor jump shot, will find other ways to score but won't be an offensive focus. If he turns out to be approximately equivalent to Marion then I don't think he's a miss at #8.

 

[roasthawg]

There's a few things not to like. Can't shoot, does he really have a position? Too weak for PF, is he quick enough for SF? I do like his defense, work ethic and character. I'm just really on the fence with him. He's kind of a tweener. I don't really care that he's local, it shouldn't come into account when drafting in my opinion. If we drafted him I wouldn't hate it, I'd keep an open mind. But he probably won't be top of my list.

Local might help in terms of signing him to a second contract... that's the only reason I mentioned it.

I'm personally not too worried about the shooting... it's one of the things a player can definitely improve upon. Not that they all do (Tyreke Evans anyone?) but for every Tyreke there's a Chandler Parsons who improves his shooting quite a bit in the nba and becomes an all star. Much more likelihood that Gordon becomes a significantly better shooter in the nba than say McDermott becomes a much better defender.

 

[roasthawg]

I still stand by the Marion comparisons. Strong, athletic player stuck between the three and four, tenacious defender, rebounder, poor jump shot, will find other ways to score but won't be an offensive focus. If he turns out to be approximately equivalent to Marion then I don't think he's a miss at #8.

Marion would be a steal at #8 in any draft.

 

[upinsmoke]

Gibson is a solid fit but completely overrated on this forum. He's a good defender but not an anchor. I might give up 8 for him but I'd want a first rounder back along with him.

I would do that proposed trade.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Not sure where else to put this. Obviously no chance of getting him barring a hugely unlikely trade, but here's a Jabari Parker workout:

Anyone who think he's not athletic enough to play SF is flat out wrong. I'd take him 100/100 over Wiggins.


Here's Embiid's workout too:

Very impressive too. Either of those guys should go first.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Marion is a good comp for Gordon. I also like a version of Faried who can defend.

Marion is and was probably a more polished offensive player than Gordon will ever be (and Marion wasn't very polished himself). Marion has had years of basketball where he averaged right around that 20PPG mark. I don't know if Gordon will ever reach that, but I also think Gordon will be a superior rebounder (not that Marion wasn't a good rebounder, I just think Gordon can be better) and I think Gordon trends more towards PF where Marion always felt like more of a SF to me. The most Marion ever really played PF was in Phoenix's small ball system, which isn't something I'd want to replicate.

Gordon also has a better frame for weight gain / ability to bang around inside. We'll see if he gets there.

I like Gordon a lot though. Depending on who else is available at 8, he's a guy I wouldn't mind seeing here.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Not sure where else to put this. Obviously no chance of getting him barring a hugely unlikely trade, but here's a Jabari Parker workout:

Anyone who think he's not athletic enough to play SF is flat out wrong. I'd take him 100/100 over Wiggins.


Here's Embiid's workout too:

Very impressive too. Either of those guys should go first.

damn embiid looks good

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Gibson is a solid fit but completely overrated on this forum. He's a good defender but not an anchor. I might give up 8 for him but I'd want a first rounder back along with him.

I'd trade the 8th straight up for Gibson. Gibson was a beast last year despite being the 4th option and playing less than 30 minutes a game. Aaron Gordon just looks way too raw to me and doesn't look like his game will translate all that well to the nba. He isn't a good dribbler, can't shoot, and has no post game. I'd rather try and bring in taj who I think would thrive playing next to cousins.