Vote for the Sacramento Kings Dance Team (merged)

[quick dog]

I am not saying that GGG is a hypocrit. Far from it. I think her stated position was balanced and centrist. That said, there is a huge double-standard of words and actions going on in the world when it concerns the relationships between men and women. That is my opinion after being emersed in the situation for about 45 years.

Women are not as pure as the driven snow. They are not the pillars of proper social behavior. They are what they are, very similar to men in most respects. I think women tend to be more pragmatic and focused on social issues, issues like personal relationships. I think men often tend to react to women, not control them. Men seldom recognize what is happening in the social relationship until it becomes obvious. I think women are better at subliminal manipulation. There may be a lot of exploitation here, but I am not sure exactly who is exploiting whom, or when.

 

[BigWaxer]

Oh good lord.

Women intentionally tantalize men and lure them with their wiles, as the poor innocent men try vainly to resist?

Sorry, QD, that's a crock. Your post is so testosterone-laden I almost had to step outside for a breath of air.

You obviously are pretty misinformed about "feminist protestations." What I was objecting to was the crass commericialism and exploitation of the "dance team" when, in reality, it was all about which scantily-clad women would garner the most votes from the NBA target audience of young, testosterone-driven males.

I worked for nearly 20 years in state government. I eventually achieved a position of some authority. I was 24 at the time, and was the youngest woman ever to reach that level. AND I know for a fact at least part of the reason was that I purposefully used the shortened version of my first name on some of the items I submitted. It took the gender bias off the table. I do not know to this day for sure that it made any difference but another woman, just as qualified but with a clearly feminine name, didn't even make the list. I was the only woman to do so. Coincidence? I think not.

So please, do not assume you know what it's like to have been in my shoes and do not insult me or belittle yourself by pretending to understand a situation you could not possibly relate to.

And for the record? G3 is about as far from a hypocrite as you could possibly get.

VF didn't read your post before I posted, took me a while to hammer out my reply.

I think when your talking to some of the younger people including my middleage self we are not going to understand the rights / struggles of women that maybe you had. I have never witnessed women having struggles in the workplace, could be the type of work I do. Maybe that’s were I think the disconnect is. I don't think any of us is ingenuous either in our thoughts as we haven’t witnessed such a thing or been a part of it.

 

[VF21]

I'm going to make one last comment and bow out...

My objection to the whole "slutification" of the SACRAMENTO KINGS DANCE TEAM is that they represent the team I love. I know I'm spitting in the wind but I personally resent that the game itself isn't enough and it has to become all about male fantasies during commercials, half-times, etc. And it's not about equal time.

If I wanted to go see a bunch of slutty dancers, I can think of a number of places to go.

But again, I cannot argue with men who have never had to deal with what I'm trying to explain. So I'll leave you all to talking about your fantasies. I'm well aware you have fantasies. Good for you. I just don't think I should have to pay to be subjected to them...

Peace.

 

[VF21]

QD and BigWaxer - I love both of you.

I actually enjoyed our little trip into the world of Venus v. Mars.

Now, however, I will - as I stated above - retire. We will NEVER see eye to eye on this. Thank God, though. If we did, there might as well just be one androgenous creature to our species and that would get really boring.

 

[quick dog]

I would love to discuss the position of women in State service, the history, bureaucratic attempts to "level the playing field". Unfortunately, this is not the place for intense discussions. I too worked for the State for 20 years and dwelled within the beast. On the feminist and affirmative-action issues related to the workplace, there is a rich anecdotal and legal history that could be reviewed to no ones particular amusement. There are two sides, or maybe four, to each of these issues.

I could care less about the dancers.

 

[BigWaxer]

I am sorry VF... I never meant to post that way or offended you, which is why in part I stayed out of it for so long. I thought the debate was very interesting. I think there is no way for a 33 year old white male to ever imagine/feel what any race/woman/age any discrimination has felt. I mean no disrespect at all. I think my post was more on how I view things in my world but no way is it meant to disrespect struggles of others. I can say I understand but truely to be honest I don't because I have never been in that situation.

No disrespect is meant at all in my post, there is no way I could know what you or women or any minority has been through. Ignorant sure? I made my comments only from my view and how I see things. I think communication is the only way to bridge the gap between all of this. I also can feel your passion on this. Again why I tried to stay out of it.

I think we have to count on the next few generations to bridge that gap. I was brought up in a home that was/is pretty racist and in the midwest. I am sure 6th can say what she has seen in Ill. I am trying to do the best I can to teach my kids that skin color/gender doesn't matter. My mom worked equally as my dad so I didn't experience or see any of the gender problems. ADDON: actually I talk to them more about that then drinking/smoking and drugs. Maybe a bad move but something I feel pretty strongly about.

 

[OHSacFan]

I have never witnessed women having struggles in the workplace, could be the type of work I do. Maybe that’s were I think the disconnect is. I don't think any of us is ingenuous either in our thoughts as we haven’t witnessed such a thing or been a part of it.

Not to jump into a comment that was meant for VF, but there actually IS quite a bit of gender discrimination that still goes on in the workplace, but then again, you stated it right when you said because of what you do, you haven't really seen it.

I'm still quite young, but I'll be the first to admit that I was floored when, during my second job straight out of college, I experienced just that. I was doing insurance claims, and one of the offices that my company represented had a severe case of "good ole boy" syndrome. I was called into the manager's office one day and told point blank that I would never be as good as the gentleman who had held the position before me, and I would be better off working as someone's secretary or becoming a nurse. I was shocked more at that moment than I ever had been before or have been since.

It's still out there, especially in smaller towns where everyone knows everyone else, and if you're not from that particular area, you are already at a disadvantage. That may be the biggest reason I'm so adamant about teaching our sons that women are not objects, but people just like they are.

No, I'm not a huge fan of the RCD because I don't much care for the cheerleader/dance team type. I think, to an extent, they realize that portraying themselves so sexually is "part of the job". There's a certain demographic that they are meant to appeal to, and we all know what that is. The sports bigwigs are just a little slow getting the idea that women can be rabid sports fans, too.

 

[VF21]

I am sorry VF... I never meant to post that way or offended you, which is why in part I stayed out of it for so long. I thought the debate was very interesting. I think there is no way for a 33 year old white male to ever imagine/feel what any race/woman/age any discrimination has felt. I mean no disrespect at all. I think my post was more on how I view things in my world but no way is it meant to disrespect struggles of others. I can say I understand but truely to be honest I don't because I have never been in that situation.

No disrespect is meant at all in my post, there is no way I could know what you or women or any minority has been through. Ignorant sure? I made my comments only from my view and how I see things. I think communication is the only way to bridge the gap between all of this. I also can feel your passion on this. Again why I tried to stay out of it.

I think we have to count on the next few generations to bridge that gap. I was brought up in a home that was/is pretty racist and in the midwest. I am sure 6th can say what she has seen in Ill. I am trying to do the best I can to teach my kids that skin color/gender doesn't matter. My mom worked equally as my dad so I didn't experience or see any of the gender problems. ADDON: actually I talk to them more about that then drinking/smoking and drugs. Maybe a bad move but something I feel pretty strongly about.

Don't worry at all, BigWaxer. No disrespect was taken...

 

[VF21]

The sports bigwigs are just a little slow getting the idea that women can be rabid sports fans, too.

Exactly. One of my fears, however, is that they'll decide to "equal the playing field" by bringing in male dancers...again.

The Kings actually tried it a couple of years ago. I didn't think I'd ever stop laughing. A man's idea of what might appeal to a woman is based on THEIR perceptions. It was embarrrassing and hilarious at the same time.

 

[BigWaxer]

I would be better off working as someone's secretary or becoming a nurse. I was shocked more at that moment than I ever had been before or have been since.

I would of told him a few choice words them became a nurse and made 80+ a year. Since my wife is in nursing that just shows how dumb this manager was. You could get your degree, get out of school and make double what he was.

I am not walking around with blinders on cause I do realize this happens. It's unfortunate but I don't think the dancers have anything to do with the struggles or portrails of struggles going on in the workplace. However from what I read they get paid pretty poorly, actually really bad for what they bring to the table. Maybe that is the injustice of it all. If they were making 100k a year would everyone look at them different?

 

[VF21]

From what I've heard before, they get paid very poorly. And they are required to cover a number of their own expenses. This, of course, may have all changed in the past couple of years but I doubt it.

I would hazard a guess that most of them do it for the exposure. (No pun intended...)

 

[GoGoGadget]

From what I've heard before, they get paid very poorly. And they are required to cover a number of their own expenses. This, of course, may have all changed in the past couple of years but I doubt it.

I would hazard a guess that most of them do it for the exposure. (No pun intended...)

As a former dancer who decided not to go pro, I can pretty safely suggest that they do it because it's a paying job. There aren't many out there and after all of the auditioning and searching, you latch on to whatever work you can get.

 

[Folsom Al]

Double WOW !!!!

Let me say this .... and say this with the sincerest honesty !!!

"I am the boss in my house and I have my wife's permission to say so."

Been married 25 years ... and to this day I love my wife very-very much. Takes alot of mistakes to be together that long and alot of apologizing and alot of compromising.

If there's ONE THING I've learned in those 25+ years it's my wife and I will always have our differences of opinion and THAT'S OKAY !!! The secret is, when we have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, I don't have to make her see and believe in mine and that hers is wrong and vice-versa.

I'm not in any way saying that I understand/agree/disagree with everything that has been said in this thread (guys-n-gals), but like VF said ...

"Now, however, I will - as I stated above - retire. We will NEVER see eye to eye on this. Thank God, though. If we did, there might as well just be one androgenous creature to our species and that would get really boring".

Personally, I know one of the girls and she's got a great head on her shoulders. She comes from a great family, and has some pretty high goals. BTW - VF, you're pretty close to what some of the benefits and reasons these girls do this for.

My daughter is involved in cheering and I gotta admit, at first I didn't like it ... for some of the exact reasons that have been stated here.

But, like a nosey Mom & Dad, we got involved. Alot of the girls we met, like our daughter - do it for THE COMRAUDERIE & FUN. My daughter has been doing gynmastics, dance and tumbling since she was 4 years old, just like alot of these young women and girls have (she's 15 now). She intends to keep dancing, doing gymnastics and tumbling ... her way of keeping fit, keeping and making friends ... and as long as she keeps her room clean and her stuidies up - We support her.

I'll even go as far as to say, she has dreams of being a Royal Court Dancer or a Football Cheerleader. And my wife and I are okay with that.

Let me add that she has dreams of going to college, majoring in Business and being just like her mom, a Partner with a large CPA firm.

So, you can probably tell I have a totally different point of view.

The NBA is not most of these girls LIFE ... they have another life. Most of these girls probably do this for THE COMRAUDERIE & FUN and as a continuation of what they've been doing most of their lives with dreams of eventually doing something else - they're young and they're living - and doing what they wanna do.

I saw this NBA Dance Team Bracket as a SIDE-ATTRACTION to March Madness and some harmless competition between dance teams.

My 2-cents ...

 

[LoungeLizard]

With all that being said.......I think it will be very difficult to knock off the Sonics dance girls in the WCF.

 

[quick dog]

They should have a dance contest to decide the winner. That would be novel.

 

[Folsom Al]

For those that would like to ... it's Royal Court vs Sonic Dancers today and tomorrow:

http://www.nba.com/features/dance_bracket_2006.html

 

[Bricklayer]

For those that would like to ... it's Royal Court vs Sonic Dancers today and tomorrow:

http://www.nba.com/features/dance_bracket_2006.html

Yeah, now see this is a tough one for me. Simply because those Seattle girls in their lingerie have it going on!

This whole "controversy"...I mean, if this had been a contest over who was the best female executive in the NBA and they had them out there in bikinis or whatnot, sure. Absolutely. But this is a contest involving dance teams composed of 100% young, attractive, very much in shape girls, some of whom have swimsuit calendars. For anybody but a dance choreographer this contest is a very small step to the left. And it is also harmless.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Yeah, now see this is a tough one for me. Simply because those Seattle girls in their lingerie have it going on!

This whole "controversy"...I mean, if this had been a contest over who was the best female executive in the NBA and they had them out there in bikinis or whatnot, sure. Absolutely. But this is a contest involving dance teams composed of 100% young, attractive, very much in shape girls, some of whom have swimsuit calendars. For anybody but a dance choreographer this contest is a very small step to the left. And it is also harmless.

Meh... I still think its a little annoying, but if the girls are okay with it, who am I to complain?

Not even annoying, really, just kind of cheesy and lame.

Besides, its not like its any more or less offensive than a certain thread currently going on in the lounge.

 

[Fillmoe]

http://www.nba.com/features/dance_west4_sea-v-sac.html


^ we are losing

 

[DocHolliday]

Yeah I haven't seen a team overcome a 3% deficit like this yet. Keep on voting, but we're pretty much done for.

 

[Folsom Al]

Yeah, now see this is a tough one for me. Simply because those Seattle girls in their lingerie have it going on!

This whole "controversy"...I mean, if this had been a contest over who was the best female executive in the NBA and they had them out there in bikinis or whatnot, sure. Absolutely. But this is a contest involving dance teams composed of 100% young, attractive, very much in shape girls, some of whom have swimsuit calendars. For anybody but a dance choreographer this contest is a very small step to the left. And it is also harmless.

I see over at the Opening screen prior to the BRACKET SCREEN the Royal Court Dancers have a different picture - a few of them in their bathing suits ... interesting ... hummmm

 

[Bricklayer]

I see over at the Opening screen prior to the BRACKET SCREEN the Royal Court Dancers have a different picture - a few of them in their bathing suits ... interesting ... hummmm

Noticed that too -- we broke out the big guns for the showdown.

But its still probably going to be Sonics/Heat. Which has been predictable since this thread first caused me to check out the "competition".

 

[G_M]

Noticed that too -- we broke out the big guns for the showdown.

Apparently, the "guns" aren't big enough!

 

[kingsfan916]

Apparently, the "guns" aren't big enough!

they are quite big as we are only down by 2%

 

[DocHolliday]

I guess I have to eat my words. It's great though. We are back up by a %

 

[Bballkingsrock]

You can still vote!!

 

[16to93]

We are up by 2%!

 

[DocHolliday]

We are up by 2%!

It's actually only one. If they move up to 50% we move down to 50%. So it's effectively only 1 % of seperation

 

[bozzwell]

I credit this thread for our comeback.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I credit this thread for our comeback.

I credit bringin' out the aforementioned big guns.