[Game] Kings @ Wolves, 11/17/21 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern

[Tetsujin]

I still take Rubio over Tyreke.

I feel like the only things Ricky has going in his favor are (a) his knees still work, (b) he's good looking, (c) he hasn't gotten banned by the league for abusing drugs.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, all comes down to how good you really think Fox is/can be (including his strengths or flaws in running the team, leadership, defense etc). Whether or not you believe he can be a #1 guy or whether he's more a #2 or Mike Conley type on a winning team. Not a clear cut right answer by any means.

I don't know if I want to be paying Fox max money for the next 5 years knowing that he can't be the #1 guy though.

And unfortunately the Kings are still stuck at the starting gate so it doesn't matter. Over the years of watching Kangz basketball of what not to do, I think there are easy and obvious rules to follow. One being regardless of ANY of that, you play to the strengths of your best players. That way, wherever it tops out you've built asset value regardless so you can eventually potentially trade that paper clip for a sports car. Two being, DON'T STACK AT A SINGLE POSITION WITH LOTTERY PICKS, and if you do, PLAY THEM ANYWAY. To win a ring, yes, there is a way to do that and a style, but to simply not suck your talent has to be your way up. Not role guys. That's what these former role player, now coaches always seem to bungle up. Especially in todays league where it's built around soft 3 point shooters peaking around pick and roll every single F'ing play. It is what it is.

 

[SacTownKid]

Sometimes that gets you Hasheem Thabeet and Willie Cauley Stein though. Or Bismack. Heck, a lot of fans (including me) were pretty high on drafting Jimmer to play next to Tyreke cos we thought he'd be Beno with range at worst.

I typically side with trend if things are outside of the top talent window. Rarely can you go too wrong with it.

 

[kb02]

I mean, it doesn't. The best offensive player is always going to overwhelm the best defensive player in a straight comparison of individual abilities.

Unless you're a big, team defense is far more important. To top it all off guard is the most irrelevant position defensively; it basically doesn't matter unless you're reaching IT levels of sieve. Mitchell's defense is a boon, not a requirement. That's how any organization worth any salt would be able to hide Buddy if need be. They did it with Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, Trae, Harden, Lillard and McCollum (together!). The list goes on.

Simmons gives 1 to 5 defense, another connector on offense, and the ability to play the 4/5. Dude wouldve been our biggest and longest player tonight in crunch time.

 

[gunks]

Simmons is deeply flawed.

We’d be playing 4 on 5 on offense in the 4th.

Honestly, if we do trade Fox, I’d just as soon do it for a rebuilding package. McNair has already proven to be our best GM at evaluating draft talent since Petrie.

That being said…. fire Luke before trading Fox. I’m still a believer. He just needs somebody like B-Jax to bench him if he’s screwing around on defense.

 

[The Effort Police]

Simmons is deeply flawed.

We’d be playing 4 on 5 on offense in the 4th.

Honestly, if we do trade Fox, I’d just as soon do it for a rebuilding package. McNair has already proven to be our best GM at evaluating draft talent since Petrie.

That being said…. fire Luke before trading Fox. I’m still a believer. He just needs somebody like B-Jax to bench him if he’s screwing around on defense.

I'd almost rather keep Walton if we're going to go for another golden era PR hire.

 

[sactowndog]

And unfortunately the Kings are still stuck at the starting gate so it doesn't matter. Over the years of watching Kangz basketball of what not to do, I think there are easy and obvious rules to follow. One being regardless of ANY of that, you play to the strengths of your best players. That way, wherever it tops out you've built asset value regardless so you can eventually potentially trade that paper clip for a sports car. Two being, DON'T STACK AT A SINGLE POSITION WITH LOTTERY PICKS, and if you do, PLAY THEM ANYWAY. To win a ring, yes, there is a way to do that and a style, but to simply not suck your talent has to be your way up. Not role guys. That's what these former role player, now coaches always seem to bungle up. Especially in todays league where it's built around soft 3 point shooters peaking around pick and roll every single F'ing play. It is what it is.

I think the better rule is don’t take anything to an extreme. Vlade didn’t draft Luka because he took fit to an extreme. Monte to best player available to an extreme. Both are poor GM’s for opposite reasons.

 

[Tetsujin]

I think the better rule is don’t take anything to an extreme. Vlade didn’t draft Luka because he took fit to an extreme. Monte to best player available to an extreme. Both are poor GM’s for opposite reasons.

I don't fault Monte for taking Davion at ninth overall considering how the draft unfolded. Pretty much the only guy after Davion that you can objectively say is at a position of need for us and playing better/as good as him is Chris Duarte and he's more of a shooting guard than a wing (plus he's already almost 25).

 

[SacTownKid]

I think the better rule is don’t take anything to an extreme. Vlade didn’t draft Luka because he took fit to an extreme. Monte to best player available to an extreme. Both are poor GM’s for opposite reasons.

Yeah, that too but only depending on the talent. Luka was a different scenario and generational talent. You can survive two main pick and roll options in a worst case. The issue with Vlade was the same thing that happened to Fox, they put up stumbling blocks in front of Bagley from day 1 in the form of win now veterans. No, give them the spotlight and cover those warts. That way value has a chance to remain in some facet. This hurts so bad because they legit Papa G'd him, no question about it and the winning didn't come from Bagley being minimized so in the end, they got NOTHING.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't fault Monte for taking Davion at ninth overall considering how the draft unfolded. Pretty much the only guy after Davion that you can objectively say is at a position of need for us and playing better/as good as him is Chris Duarte and he's more of a shooting guard than a wing (plus he's already almost 25).

Yeah, but in a draft loaded with wing potential he certainly should have been more aggressive. And this is where Monte is judged. His coach is now starting to turn against him in terms of his roster construction, what does he do? I ain't seeing this Davion can play PF stuff here. Just like we never saw Nik can play PG from Malone. There has hardly been a legit attempt.

 

[gunks]

I'd almost rather keep Walton if we're going to go for another golden era PR hire.

I’d only like Bobby as interim coach, unless he really wows us. I’d much prefer somebody with a track record at this point. A real track record, not a fool’s gold track record like Luke’s.

 

[Tetsujin]

Interim haha. I’d much prefer somebody with a track record at this point. A real track record, not a fool’s gold track record like Luke’s.

Alvin Gentry took a team to the western conference finals!

 

[sactowndog]

I don't fault Monte for taking Davion at ninth overall considering how the draft unfolded. Pretty much the only guy after Davion that you can objectively say is at a position of need for us and playing better/as good as him is Chris Duarte and he's more of a shooting guard than a wing (plus he's already almost 25).

I fault Monte for being in that spot first off. And if you are going to take Mitchell then be prepared to make a trade after summer league when it was obvious Mitchell could play.

 

[mac]

Simmons is deeply flawed.

We’d be playing 4 on 5 on offense in the 4th.

Honestly, if we do trade Fox, I’d just as soon do it for a rebuilding package. McNair has already proven to be our best GM at evaluating draft talent since Petrie.

That being said…. fire Luke before trading Fox. I’m still a believer. He just needs somebody like B-Jax to bench him if he’s screwing around on defense.

What rebuilding package could you possibly get though? If I'm a GM with a young unproven star still not on a max contract, there's no way I'm trading him for Fox who isn't an allstar/hasn't led a team to playoffs etc. That's what makes the Simmons situation unique. Like it or not, the team is constructed to be competing for the playoffs in the next 3 years. There's no way around it aside from blowing it up completely because the rest of the team is too good for us to be able to tank effectively. There aren't many teams who are ready to compete who are looking for a scoring PG; in most cases they already have one.

 

[sactowndog]

No coach is going to be able to overcome this roster construction and no good coach is going to come in and be the xxth coach under Vivek. Maybe if you hired Ainge as a consultant he has enough respect around the league you might get a top coach.

 

[gunks]

What rebuilding package could you possibly get though? If I'm a GM with a young unproven star still not on a max contract, there's no way I'm trading him for Fox who isn't an allstar/hasn't led a team to playoffs etc. That's what makes the Simmons situation unique. Like it or not, the team is constructed to be competing for the playoffs in the next 3 years. There's no way around it aside from blowing it up completely because the rest of the team is too good for us to be able to tank effectively. There aren't many teams who are ready to compete who are looking for a scoring PG; in most cases they already have one.

That’s what I’d prefer. Not saying I know how to get it, that’s a Monte problem!

…. Admittedly this response isn’t doing my “don’t trade for Simmons” stance any favors. And honestly, I’d be less angry about such a trade today than if it happened before this season.

I suppose when it gets down to it, I’m still in the keep Fox camp, because I don’t see a neat solution out there, aside from firing our incompetent coach, but then we have to figure out a replacement….

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I went and had dinner with a friend from Jesuit tonight. We talked a lot about Sac but not the Kings. I see we lost. Is Luke still coach?

 

[sactowndog]

For anyone who cares… 538 predicts us to finish in the 8-9 draft lottery spot as is our typical spot where the BPA will be another 1-2 guard. The only redeeming thing is Vivek will get the record on his own he so richly deserves. Sadly he is unlikely to Sterling, Sarver himself out of the league.

 

[sactowndog]

The only way the three guard sets could’ve worked is to copy the Dallas model of stuffing the middle with two bigs.

So we can have 4 out of 5 guys on the floor who can’t shoot 3’s.

 

[Tetsujin]

I went and had dinner with a friend from Jesuit tonight. We talked a lot about Sac but not the Kings. I see we lost. Is Luke still coach?

Not for much longer hopefully

 

[kb02]

So we can have 4 out of 5 guys on the floor who can’t shoot 3’s.

Volume play. Gobble up boards.

 

[theclash4u5]

This season is 100% Monte's fault. He didn't fire Walton in the offseason like he should have and didn't trade Barnes or Buddy last season or in the offseason like he should have.

 

[Tetsujin]

This season is 100% Monte's fault. He didn't fire Walton in the offseason like he should have and didn't trade Barnes or Buddy last season or in the offseason like he should have.

For what and why? Barnes and Buddy have been the least of our problems this season and that Barnes-Boston Celtics trade that some people randomly latched onto like a leech onto a water buffalo looks even worse in hindsight with Langford and Nesmith not even looking like NBA players and that mid-round pick not really netting anyone special.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I haven't given up on fox or this team. I've given up on this coach. We have plenty of talent. We need discipline and scheme. We need to figure out what the plan is every dam game and go for it win or lose. We went from playing fast, to playing thru Barnes, to swing iso ball. To buddy 3s to rebounds only to whatever is next game. Give me an identity please! All these pieces takes a great coach because it's not natural to have a 3 guard system. It can work for sure, with the right coach

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I just wanna wake up tomorrow with the headline.....Kings Part Ways With Trash Head Coach Walton Over Sexual Harrassment From 5 years Ago.

 

[serbiangoat]

I don't understand how you come into the season without both a stretch big (Metu sucks he's super low IQ and horrid shot selection) and with only 1 wing player in Barnes (Harkless is trash). The Kings got Len/TT/Jones/Bagley and Holmes who all basically do the same thing this is shocking roster construction. The teams that paired James Johnson and Tyreke Evans made more sense than this one.

 

[steelevt]

This season is 100% Monte's fault. He didn't fire Walton in the offseason like he should have and didn't trade Barnes or Buddy last season or in the offseason like he should have.

I agree with the first part but Barnes and buddy are 2 guys that were actually helping us win games or get back into games. I was all for the hb/Barnes + bags and draft picks for simmons/siakam/whatever player we were wishing for, but so far those 2 are the least of our problems.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I agree with the first part but Barnes and buddy are 2 guys that were actually helping us win games or get back into games. I was all for the hb/Barnes + bags and draft picks for simmons/siakam/whatever player we were wishing for, but so far those 2 are the least of our problems.

This is the truth. I also had them half way out the door. What do you think of buddy switching agents? Should we be worried? I'm not really worried about anything at this point but, you think trade demand is coming? Or maybe this agent can get us a better trade deal

 

[luckytkp]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1461199739270176774

 

[Rob-The-Great]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1461199739270176774

Disagree and Tristan isn't our leader fox is. And by him saying pretty much we have no star (and we dont) is a diss on our max potential star who thinks he's already a star. Therefore we need a coach for motivation more than ever. Not a bench player who's never really been good trying to be the leader we don't need.