Muss Arrested

[Prophetess]

Not MY logic, man. That's standard definitions out of textbooks (well, regurgitated text that I'm trying to remember).

I don't agree with the definitions, just as I don't agree with a lot of things, but it doesn't invalidate it as the accepted standard used in psychology and courtrooms.

Okay, looked it up, it's the NIAAA that wrote the numbers, not me.

Ok, I have to say the AA definition of an alcoholic is someone who can not drink only one drink. It doesn't matter if it's every day, once a month, or even only once a year as Kennadog pointed out.

There are people in the world who are called functioning alcholics, they go to work every day and do a good job and then get home and get blind stupid drunk. Only to repeat again the next day. There are those who get so drunk, they don't even remember who they are. So there are all types of alcholism.


I don't think one stupid mistake qualifies Muss as an alcoholic.

 

[bench_blob]

On the bright side for Muss, it could open the door to a new endorsement deal:

Muss and Moose....Moosehead for Musellman....Nothing goes down smoother than an ice cold Moosehead Lager (or six or seven) after a pre-season home victory..."Take it from Muss: Try a Moose today"!



(Note: All jokes aside, drink responsibly. Life is precious.)

 

[startingtohurt]

i was just thinking about this, when was the last time a pro level coach was arrested for drunk driving? i know a couple college coaches were arrested but ive never heard of it happening to a professional coach...

 

[NewMonkey]

Not MY logic, man. That's standard definitions out of textbooks (well, regurgitated text that I'm trying to remember).

I don't agree with the definitions, just as I don't agree with a lot of things, but it doesn't invalidate it as the accepted standard used in psychology and courtrooms.

Okay, looked it up, it's the NIAAA that wrote the numbers, not me.

An alcoholic is someone who is powerless to control their drinking. It's not about numbers - you don't have to drink every day or even every week to be an alcoholic. It's about being unable to stop drinking once you start.

 

[VF21]

And I'd like to reiterate some 200+ posts in that there is NO indication that our coach is an alcoholic. That's a very damaging accusation for people to make - or even imply - and it's totally without any basis in fact whatsoever here.

 

[BigWaxer]

First I did not read through 9 pages... I was at football today and just skimmed.

I have a lot to say on this topic, and let me first say a lot of conclusions that people have made about alcoholics are 100% dead wrong... problem is this is not the board to air out my feelings on this.

I have had some problems with drinking... never got a DUI but understand what people go through and the struggle. Am I saying muss has a problem, no way this was probably just a night out drinking and he made the mistake to drive home. Is alcohol the one drug that should be illegal? Yes

I think as VF said early on in this thread... If he says and does the right thing he will be fine. NOW given that fact he will be advised by the Kings PR department... A black eye for the kings and I am more concerned with Muss the person then the arrest or team.


EDIT: Agree VF you posted before I did

 

[SacTownKid]

****!

 

[BRad1055]

Eric Musselman press conference tomorrow at 12:15pm. I just saw this on News10 sports. News10.net will have live streaming video of the press conference, although I am sure comcast sportsnet will show it on tv.

 

[BigWaxer]

nice, I assume he will apologize and own up to it. Thats all anyone should expect... no excuses, just a I messed up, I am sorry blah blah...

I do not want to hear the priest got to me or I have a problem or all that. (ya I expect the last part to be deleted)

 

[ForlornKing]

Yes.

Legalize the trees. I can drive fine baked. Ban alchohol.

 

[Warhawk]

Everyone makes mistakes, live long enough and you'll make some big ones.

But it isn't the mistake it's how you make it right that shows what you're made of.

If I were Muss the first thing I would do is offer to resign. Coaching the Kings (like driving) is a privilege, not a right. At this point in the season I doubt the Maloofs would want that, but it shows that he knows he screwed up.

I think we're also going to be seeing Muss on some anti-drunk driving PSAs soon enough.

Muss can come back from this but he's going to need to put the effort in.

Who knows he might end up influencing some drinkers not to get in their cars and save some lives.

I was thinking the same thing - really puts it out there that you know you screwed up. They wouldn't take him up on it over this. Might if something else happened.

On the "alcoholic" comments and Muss - as stated previously, nobody has ANY indications that this is an issue right now (priors, rumors, etc). Casting about those accusations isn't very nice.

I had a grandmother who used to drink and drive (she lived far away, by herself, and we found out about it much later). Almost killed herself once in a single car accident (rollover accident - broke her neck, but she eventually recovered). I thank God to this day she never hurt anyone before she died (alcohol-related illness/organ damage). I wish we would have known sooner and could have tried to take her off the road somehow.

I also want to thank everyone for the generally civil and intelligent bantering going on here. Your common sense on this issue and this discussion is appreciated.

 

[VF21]

I've posted two new articles with their own threads. This thread, while great for initial discussions, is getting so unwieldy most people won't bother to read all the posts.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yes.

Legalize the trees. I can drive fine baked. Ban alchohol.

Uh...no. That is a very bad idea. NEVER drive impaired in any way shape or form.

-----------------------------------------------------

End of public service announcement.

 

[rhythmless]

Um..your math is a little faulty, and not sure where you got 1 drink in an hour = .08.

http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CFDAE/bachart.shtml

At Muss's size he would have had to had 5 drinks in an hour, then maintained with at least 1 more drink per hour therafter (your body processes about 1 an hour I believe) in order to get to .11.

THIS is where i got it... http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs72duichart.htm

at least quote from california if youre gonna give me a chart.

this is what i am talking about. theres so much middle ground, so much muddling of supposed "facts" handed out from the police, dmv, what have you. im not condoning his actions, nor am i putting his name in the mud. im essentially calling devils advocate on it all and saying that there is a grey area that, in this situation, i feel musselman may fall into.

however, i will freely admit i am biased. so take it for what you will. but the large descrepancy in both our charts doesnt demonstrate whether i am right or you are, brick, just that defining "drunk driving" is a very hard area to place people into. i was especially incensed when people labeled him a "drunk driver," one that needed to seek help. hope this clears things up

 

[AleksandarN]

Uh...no. That is a very bad idea. NEVER drive impaired in any way shape or form.

-----------------------------------------------------

End of public service announcement.

I aggree driving high is as bad or worst then driving drunk.

On to the topic at hand though what Muss did was terrible. He should be punished by the law and by the organization. I think comunity service should be one of conditions of his punishment. I think maybe joining an organization Madd would be the best thing for him.

 

[slugking50]

7 Pages..... Damn! Much deserved though.

Muss should serve a good suspension without pay. Hes supposed to be a leader and as a 40 year old should have known better. A good 5-10 games would be appropiate.

Sac is the birthplace of M.A.D.D in 1983. We will see how things go in the next few days

My dad was a 6 time DUI offender(AFAIK) who amazingly never hurt anybody but a beautiful 64 Impala(Was supposed to be mine when I turned 16) and a telephone pool. During the time He only had about a year or so in total in Jail.

 

[SkinnerBox]

.11?

Pffft, I've driven way drunker than that. Next time he'd better be stumbling.

Seriously though, it's pretty easy to blow .11. Thats like 4 beers. Thats not drunk.

 

[KingKong]

Not exactly the type of news I was excpecting to wake up to. Sheesh... I'm going back to bed. Goodnight all.

 

[Elektrik]

As for Crandell and his .08, suspect he got it wrong given that the initial report said it was on the record as .11. But regardless, a DUI = a DUI, and if you think that you should really be driving around at .79 you are nuts as well.

On DUI'S the ticket will say .08...even if it is higher. That is what is of record. .08 or higher. It's like if you get a speeding ticket. If you get caught going 1 mile over the limit and you are unlucky enough to get pulled over, you're still as guilty as the guy going 25 miles over the limit.

 

[Elektrik]

After having read all these posts on this subject I thought I might add my 2 cents. I will also freely admit that I have made stupid choices as far as driving while impaired when I was younger but was one of the lucky ones who never got in an accident or arrested. It was a stupid thing for me to do then and it was a stupid thing for Mussleman to do Saturday morning.
I have read some very astute posts and much of what I have to say will be redundant but I still wish to make my feelings known. I wish to make it clear that I think Mussleman should be allowed a second chance. Mistakes happen in life. What is important is what is learned from them. I think up to this point he has done a fine job. I do believe that he must make his apologies to Sacramento as a whole, the Kings organization, his players and to his family. I would expect a fine and a suspension from the NBA. I do not believe in a double standard and expect him to fulfill his obligations as far as the penalties for DUI's the same as anyone else.
As far as talk of him being an alcoholic, who knows. He doesn't have a public reputation as far as I know for being an out of control drunk. As it stands now I will give him a pass. What I do know is that he made a bad choice that has placed him in a bad light and put peoples lives in danger. It will be an uphill battle for him to regain some of the trust that he has had by all concerned.
What so many people who have alcohol related problems fail to understand (until it is too late) is how alcohol affects the lives of those close to them. For example, fines to be paid by families that don't have the money in the first place, them losing their license putting family and friends at hardship for having to take the DUI offender to mandatory AA meetings, court hearings, and to their jobs because they are no longer allowed to legally drive.
The financial losses for some can be staggering especially for families where the DUI offender IS an alcoholic and must go to a treatment center, not to mention the pain that family members see of their loved one who needs help but in many cases can't see it.
I am not saying Mussleman is at this point but, he could be.
I am disappointed that he didn't show better judgement but as it has been said numerous times here that most people over the legal limit don't make good judgements. As a leader of young men, and young kids (by his choice) he failed to be a role model for them by making a poor decision in getting behind a automobiles wheel after drinking. I hope he steps up to the plate, and takes his knocks, as they are well deserved, learns from it, and goes on from here and become proactive in helping people to resist the temptation of drinking and driving. As one persons post said earlier. He was lucky. It could have been much worse.

 

[ITSCdanimal]

Uh...no. That is a very bad idea. NEVER drive impaired in any way shape or form.

-----------------------------------------------------

End of public service announcement.

I agree, but let's not underestimate the difference each impairment has on driving. It does tend to be a little safe to drive 6 miles an hour the entire way to your destination than it is to drive 90 without realizing it.

 

[Warhawk]

Given his habit of being the first to work, last to leave, lack of history of any similar incidents/problems, buying a home very close to ARCO to be able to help any players that want to come and practice at odd hours, devotion to the game and the players, well publicized time spent in his (few available) off hours playing ball with the other coaches, rigorous workout schedule and voracious appetite for accumulating information (even reading the newspaper during workouts at what, 6 am? to save time and get to ARCO), I have a hard time seeing this as anything other than an isolated incident.

I think, based on what we've read so far, that he seems to have grasped what a mistake he has made. Hopefully it will not be repeated and after serving/paying whatever punishment the league hands down, we can all move forward and look to an entertaining and successful (and incident-free) tenure with Muss as coach of the Kings.

 

[NewMonkey]

And I'd like to reiterate some 200+ posts in that there is NO indication that our coach is an alcoholic. That's a very damaging accusation for people to make - or even imply - and it's totally without any basis in fact whatsoever here.

Agreed. It's completely preposterous for anyone to suggest that Musselman is or isn't an alcholic based on a single incident.

 

[moradi420]

Yes, I do.

Also, he pretty much was fired ... but he was rehired by another company.

But, if he hit a fan in Sactown ... I'd call for his immediate release from the team.

But, comparing punching a fan to drunk driving is apples and oranges.

The coach made a mistake, should pay the consequences and be put on notice of probation. Given some extra hours of community service. He should be told that if he makes more "boneheaded" decisions, it could cost him his professional job. But, that's it.

It's not a trend at this point.

ud call for his release, i dont think they take calls on that sort of thing, plus get real, u think hed hit a fan in his town, he hit a detrit fan not an indiana fan, the chances of ron hitting one of us is 0

 

[Venom]

. I will say that there are certain franchises (Phoenix comes to mind) that might have fired him for this sort of thing.

You got it backwards Brick. In Phoenix, the Colangelos would have traded him if he had a dropped domestic abuse charge (Kidd) in order to get back the convicted DUI (Marbury). Cause, you know, the Colangelos are "really" concerned about character and all that. Good thing Jerry selected the Olympic squad.

 

[HaraWish]

Let me summarize current staus.

As I know...
(1) He admitted his mistake and apologized.
(2) The organization, including owners and a GM, was disappointed, but seemed to give second chance.
(3) Players supported him.
(4) Fans looked equivocal, but seemed to give second chance anyway.

Is it right?

Can anybody tell me about legal procedure or about league's punishment? I worry about that the league is usually so strict about these case. If team and fan want to keep Muss as a coach, can Muss keep coaching Kings?

 

[swisshh]

Did the forum eat my post in this thread?

 

[VF21]

Let me summarize current staus.

As I know...
(1) He admitted his mistake and apologized.
(2) The organization, including owners and a GM, was disappointed, but seemed to give second chance.
(3) Players supported him.
(4) Fans looked equivocal, but seemed to give second chance anyway.

Is it right?

Can anybody tell me about legal procedure or about league's punishment? I worry about that the league is usually so strict about these case. If team and fan want to keep Muss as a coach, can Muss keep coaching Kings?

If the past actions against players are any indication, the league won't take any action until/unless he's found guilty - or enters a guilty or no contest plea.

The league cannot fire Musselman. And I can think of no reason they would. This is, at most, a misdemeanor.

 

[Bricklayer]

Let me summarize current staus.

As I know...
(1) He admitted his mistake and apologized.
(2) The organization, including owners and a GM, was disappointed, but seemed to give second chance.
(3) Players supported him.
(4) Fans looked equivocal, but seemed to give second chance anyway.

Is it right?

Can anybody tell me about legal procedure or about league's punishment? I worry about that the league is usually so strict about these case. If team and fan want to keep Muss as a coach, can Muss keep coaching Kings?

League could suspend him, even ban him, but int his case its hard to imagine much more than a few game suspension coming down after he reaches a plea agreement. League won't be amused because its a coach, but a first DUI type offense has never been a month suspension/ban type offense.

 

[rhythmless]

can anyone with firsthand experience shed some light on general BAC levels? brick is following 5 drinks an hour as .08, through the state of colorado. but i dont agree with that, and for the CA dmv, 1-2 drinks an hour is about .08, so which is it? i know it varies a lot, so where does the range fall into? the discrepancy is annoying me.