Muss Arrested

[Roman]

I hope this doesn't cause an attack. I'm sincerely unsure of the answers. But....

Out of curiosity, when they found .8 to be the unacceptable level of intoxication for driving was this the number that proved one could not drive at 100% or let's call it an A level? For example on a training course would drivers flunk at this level? Or would they simply show signs of being impaired? That is to say does .8 mean your vulnerable to poor driving, or incapable of operating it perfectly. For instance which would be worse making several cell calls or driving at .8?

I'm curious also if the numbers over 1.0 are severely more dangerous? That is do more accidents occur with drunk drivers falling in a certain range. Or more precisely what is the average Level for drunk drivers who cause fatalities?

Each person is affected a little differently. It's also not just size that determines BAC.

Actually, the more determining factor of BAC is your kidneys and metabolism. Some smaller, "lighter" people can metabolize far more alcohol than someone that is far larger. Another factor is the amount you normally intake. Your body is a machine that learns how to best process something it's used to. A heavy drinker will not have the same BAC after 5 drinks as an Amish kid who has never drank after the same number of drinks.

Further, it's skewed because .08 BAC effects each individual differently. Remember, alcohol is a narcotic and thusly has differing affects on each person based on their genetic predisposition to alcohols effects. So, you and I could be in a room, both with .1 BAC and I may have slight blurring of my vision and a change in my reaction time, whereas you won't have any affects.

So, the quick answer to your question is that .08 is a catch-all number since we cannot determine the correct BAC for each individual. The general consensus is that a .08 is the BAC an average man (170 pounds is considered average) would have after 4 full size beers. According to the studies, .08 BAC represents a 9 or 10 time increase in the chances of an automobile accident and during the initial changes from a .1BAC to .08BAC, the states that used .08 as the BAC standard had a reduction in the number of alcohol related auto fatalities of around 5-8%.

The problem with the statistics, as I alluded to earlier is that they don't typically classify "level" of intoxication in the stat reports because the numbers aren't as "shocking".

Not taking away from the severity of alcohol related accidents, but the number is inflated. To these reports, any vehicular accident where the person has ANY alcohol in the system (and I do mean any) goes down as an alcohol related accident. Further, they also classify alcohol related accidents that are NOT caused by the intoxicated individual as alcohol related accidents.

So, if you had half a beer at the local Hooters and someone rear-ends you - then chances are: it's going down as an alcohol related accident. It's how they get their numbers to look so scary.

Now - as I said - NONE OF THIS EXCUSES DRINKING AND DRIVING at any level. It's stupid and quite a selfish thing to do.

 

[Entity]

For instance i haven't gotten drunk in like 10 years. I have maybe had a 6 pack in that 10 year period. If i drink 1 i am feeling it pretty good. However from age 17 to age 20 or so i could drink a 6 pack and never feel a thing.. now was i over the limit then probably but, remembering how i felt then and how i feel now after 1 I would trust myself driving then over now after 1. So what your blowing doesn't tell me a think about how drunk you are.

 

[kingsfan916]

i know he was at the Malibar off of Del Paso.. doesnt he live right by there?

yes he lives somewhere in creekside cause i saw him playing basketball w/ his son at kokomo park

 

[Bricklayer]

Note the chart I posted much earlier in this thread -- for a guy of Muss's body mass he would have to drink roughly 5 drinks in an hour, and then at least 1 more every hour thereafter to mantain a .11 blood alcohol level. So if he was at the bar or whatever for 3-4 hours (a safe assumption at 3:00 am), that's 7-8 beers, shots, whatever. You don't drink that much by accident.

I sincerely doubt he hopped in the car thinking he was too drunk, but then again few drunk people do. But there is no way he consumed that much liquor and hopped in the car thinking that he was dead sober either.

I'm kind of interested in his passengers. Drunk people can be belligerently obtuse, but I hope they were all worse off than Muss, otherwise somebody really should have taken the keys.

 

[kingsfan916]

I didn't say it wasn't serious i said it was a non issue with me as long as nobody got hurt. when that happens then the game changes.

my bad i guess i didnt read it right

 

[Roman]

For instance i haven't gotten drunk in like 10 years. I have maybe had a 6 pack in that 10 year period. If i drink 1 i am feeling it pretty good. However from age 17 to age 20 or so i could drink a 6 pack and never feel a thing.. now was i over the limit then probably but, remembering how i felt then and how i feel now after 1 I would trust myself driving then over now after 1. So what your blowing doesn't tell me a think about how drunk you are.

If you were referring to me - then the answer is quite complex. At age 17-20 you were younger with a faster metabolism. Your body was probably used to alcohol and its effects were less severe. Further, the effects were shorter lived as your young kidneys filtered the poison out of your system.

10 years later, your body slows down. Alcohol will hit you harder now.

But, for your edification here's the rundown:

.02 - .03 BAC - Relaxed and a little buzzed. Probably more willing to talk to that cute girl or guy in the corner, but probably aren't ready to kick out the jams at kareoke (unless that's your thing).

.04 - .07 BAC - Emotions become a bit whacked. Your highs are higher and your lows are lower. May have that warmish feeling and you can't feel your nose. Don't go take the BAR exam, as your reasoning is going to be a bit off.

.08 - .09 BAC - All your major senses become a bit "off". Balance, vision, speech, memory can be impaired. Not majorly, but not functioning 100%. Most important is that your reaction time should be off, so don't go playing a game of Galaga or anything. Self-control is usually pretty much gone, so get down on the dance floor. Feelings of euphoria overcloud better judgement ... which leads to thoughts that you are "better than you really are".

.10 - .12 BAC - Slight motor impairment sets in.

.13 - .15 BAC - Serious motor impairment. Shpeechh prolaly getss a litttlle bit schlurred, but you wont realish it. Right about now is the time that you get stupid and tell everyone how much you love them because insecurities set in as well as irrational angers.

.16 - .20 BAC - Sloppy drunk. Vomiting, can't walk without help. Feeling is all but gone. Blackouts start right about .... now.

Let's not go above this level because we start to get into dark waters.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I only now caught wind of the story and needless to say I'm very disappointed. I'll take a little solace in the fact that .11 is probably in the realm of someone that just didn't know their limits rather than someone that was blazing drunk and still got in the car. But really, there's no excuse for this.

 

[BRad1055]

There was a former chp officer who called in to the Jim Crandell show today and he said you can be over the .08 limit and still have full function and be alert and not feel it etc.. it just depends on how you can handle it. He said he had tested people who were over the .08 limit and been perfectly fine to drive and if they are that way he believes they should be able to drive because it is differant for all people.

 

[LA King Fan II]

I delivered booze at 16 (and drank). I've driven for thirty years since and consider myself an excellent driver. I've also drank for thirty years and (with the help of water bottles) consider myself very good at keeping my wits and abilities about me while drinking.

Brick, if you're telling me that at one point Musselman had five shots within an hour ---- GEEEZ, he should not have driven. Let's gauge his response and then zero in on his sincerity. A mistake. Luckily nobody was hurt.

Still think he's most likely a decent guy. I'd love to see him redeem himself. Let's all chip in and get him a power forward so he can get 50 wins and home court advantage 1st round in the playoffs!

 

[Roman]

There was a former chp officer who called in to the Jim Crandell show today and he said you can be over the .08 limit and still have full function and be alert and not feel it etc.. it just depends on how you can handle it. He said he had tested people who were over the .08 limit and been perfectly fine to drive and if they are that way he believes they should be able to drive because it is differant for all people.

Correct, it is different for all people.

But, a LOT of things are different for a lot of people. For instance, I'm comfortable driving my car at 90-100MPH. I'm comfortable when other people do, too. But, that doesn't mean everyone is. It doesn't mean everyone can handle those speeds or that it's safe.

Most people don't have any issue with weed. I smoked the crap once in my life and I BEGGED to be handcuffed because I kept hallucinating and I kept seeing myself killing everyone I was with. I was also anxiety ridden and kept believing the pot was laced. 2 hours of pure hell, whereas everyone else was just fine.

What's right for one person is not necessarily right for another.

Thus, a blanket laws needed to be created to set a "standard". So far, the standard has shown a decrease in alcohol related fatalities. Is it right? No, of course not. It would be better to be able to know what the right level for each person is ... but that's not possible at this point in time.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

A coach with a DUI. Jesus.

I like Muss and think he's a smart, motivated, guy. But that just about takes the cake for stupidity.

yeah, my thoughts exactly...my only reaction at this point is: now what??

edit: oh yeah, and was he drinking alone, or with someone else??

 

[Roman]

yeah, my thoughts exactly...my only reaction at this point is: now what??

Simple:

The sun will set. The moon will rise. The orbit of the Earth will keep us going around the sun.

In the morning the sun will peak it's head over the clouds and rise again. Basketballs will still bounce and the Kings will move forward.

[/end prophetic moment]

 

[ParniValjak]

What the **** was he thinking

 

[BMiller52]

This is taken from another person at another message board but I agree with most of it so I'll post it:

OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and not be PC. I've been popped for DUI in a sting at .082, and the fact is that I had last drank alomost 4 hours before that. So personally, I would love to have a study that shows the increase in local government revenue from DUI felated offenses since the limit went from .10 to .08. I am sure that it is significant. The fact is that a guywho is Muss's size can have about a drink and a half and blow a .11, so I am gonna say that basically he just made a driving mistake and was unlucky enough to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Insofar as the posters (mostly from other boards) are saying that he should resign - give me a break. This could have happened to ANY ONE OF US after leaving a restaurant from a nice dinner with a couple of glasses of wine with our wives/girlfriends. So get off all your holier than thou soapboxes about how "wrong" drunk driving is. We all know that, and clowns who go tank it up at the bar or club for six hours then get behind the wheel and wipe out some family should be crucified. But this is a good guy and a hard working coach who was just having a nice night out after a small victory. I feel bad for him,l and the crap that he is going to have to put up with stemming from this. But, I am looking forward to the season giving us plenty of reason to forget about all this.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Simple:

The sun will set. The moon will rise. The orbit of the Earth will keep us going around the sun.

In the morning the sun will peak it's head over the clouds and rise again. Basketballs will still bounce and the Kings will move forward.

[/end prophetic moment]

yeah, but you have to wonder, does he do this on a regular basis and this was just the first time he was caught doing it? or was it a chance happening? hopefully this wont be a once a year, or whatever frequency sort of thing, or that he is an alchoholic in real life(and I know he only blew a .11, which wasnt THAT bad...but he drove, which COULD have turned tragic). we can only hope for the best.

 

[Roman]

yeah, but you have to wonder, does he do this on a regular basis and this was just the first time he was caught doing it? or was it a chance happening? hopefully this wont be a once a year, or whatever frequency sort of thing, or that he is an alchoholic in real life. we can only hope for the best.

Guarantee that Muss is going to go to therapy and counciling whether this is the first time or not. (Got to make MADD and it's ilk happy, or you'll have hell to pay)

More than likely he's taken a psyche profile and I'd doubt it's a regular thing.

It was a dumb move, but it's indicative of alcoholism or anything. It's a guy doing something extremely stupid.

 

[Entity]

I don't wonder if he does it regularly. All i have heard was one time and that was last night. Its obsurd to jump to those kind of conclusions. And you asked about him being an alcoholic in real life???? Is there an alternative alcohoism land i don't know about?

 

[Gargamel]

I know im gonna come off as a huge *******, but no i still wouldnt care, there is so much bad that goes on in this world every day that i cant bother to care about some people dying in a car accident, no matter who is to blame, life happens, and i dont know those people, why should i care? Now if it was somebody i cared for thats a different story, but again, life happens.

That's what Bobby Hurley said after being extracted from the ditch: "I can't bother to care about this, life happens."

 

[Roman]

I don't wonder if he does it regularly. All i have heard was one time and that was last night. Its obsurd to jump to those kind of conclusions. And you asked about him being an alcoholic in real life???? Is there an alternative alcohoism land i don't know about?

In Circa's defense, what the media releases isn't always the truth. Usually because they aren't told the entire story. (ie. Owens suicide anyone?)

Actually, I believe the running standard definition of "alcoholic" is 3-4 drinks per week. Granted, dependency and psychological addictions are different for everyone, this is just the blanket.

Whereas, a HEAVY DRINKER is someone who consumes 1-2 drinks per day.

So, the dad that comes home from work and drinks a beer or a glass of wine is an alcoholic and a heavy drinker.

Sorry, you asked.

 

[Roman]

That's what Bobby Hurley said after being extracted from the ditch: "I can't bother to care about this, life happens."

HA!

In light of everything, that was quite funny.

 

[kennadog]

I get to the "can't feel my nose" stage on half a glass of wine, LOL.

I rarely drink. Since I go out alone a lot, I almost never have a drink while I'm out. If I do have a drink, I make sure a minimum of an hour has passed after the last sip. My ex did and my friends do love to go out with me. I drive and they can drink.

Have I ever been over the legal limit while driving? Probably flirted with it once or twice when I was young. It was stupid.

Do I think there are probably a lot of impaired people out there who manage to make it home safely every night? You betcha. Lots of them. It doesn't mean it was a smart move or they were actually okay to drive, it means they were lucky. And so was every one else sharing the road with them.

The difference between making it home and getting a misdemeanor DUI is plain ol' luck. The difference between a misdemeanor DUI and vehicular manslaughter is also pure luck.

By the time most people shouldn't drive, they are usually incapable of making a good judgement about it. They've done tests where after one drink, even professional drivers could not make it through a driving course without knocking over some of the traffic cones.

Everyone needs to take some responsibility though. If you know a friend should probably not drive, take away the keys, have them spend the night, drive them home, call a cab, have someone else drive them home, call somebody that can come get them. If they insist and you can't stop them, call the cops.

Yes, Eric Musselman is human and he made a mistake. Unfortunately some mistakes can be fatal. He got lucky. Maybe he got really lucky, because he's learned from it. I think it'll be hardest to explain to his kids. That's going to hurt. I can't imagine having to do that.

 

[Ryle]

I tend to wonder what the age of most people on this board is. An Alcoholic because you get a DUI???

Like someone posted earlier about this type of situation. I have been to happy hour/social occasions/work party(insert other function of a working adult) and I have 3 kids and a wife and am a very responsible human being. But, I can tell you that I have had a few drinks and have driven in the car to get home after it and thought I was fine. May not have thought I was "legally" drunk but I felt no real difference in the way I was driving and thought I was fine and able to drive because I am a responsible adult.

Crucify me if you like but quite frankly I don't give a ****. It's about being responsible and obviously Muss will have to take the hit for this.

 

[Ryle]

I get to the "can't feel my nose" stage on half a glass of wine, LOL.

I rarely drink. Since I go out alone a lot, I almost never have a drink while I'm out. If I do have a drink, I make sure a minimum of an hour has passed after the last sip. My ex did and my friends do love to go out with me. I drive and they can drink.

Have I ever been over the legal limit while driving. Probably flirted with it once or twice when I was young. It was stupid.

Do I think there are probably a lot of impaired people out there who manage to make it home safely every night? You betcha. Lots of them. It doesn't mean it was a smart move or they were actually okay to drive, it means they were lucky. And so was every one else sharing the road with them.

The difference between making it home and getting a misdemeanor DUI is plain ol' luck. The difference between a misdemeanor DUI and vehicular manslaughter is also pure luck.

By the time most people shouldn't drive, they are usually incapable of making a good judgement about it. They've done tests where after one drink, even professional drivers could not make it through a driving course without knocking over some of the traffic cones.

Everyone needs to take some responsibility though. If you know a friend should probably not drive, take away the keys, have them spend the night, drive them home, call a cab, have someone else drive them home, call somebody that can come get them. If they insist and you can't stop them, call the cops.

Yes, Eric Musselman is human and he made a mistake. Unfortunately some mistakes can be fatal. He got lucky. Maybe he got really lucky, because he's learned from it. I think it'll be hardest to explain to his kids. That's going to hurt. I can't imagine having to do that.

Nice post Kenna

 

[Ryle]

In Circa's defense, what the media releases isn't always the truth. Usually because they aren't told the entire story. (ie. Owens suicide anyone?)

Actually, I believe the running standard definition of "alcoholic" is 3-4 drinks per week. Granted, dependency and psychological addictions are different for everyone, this is just the blanket.

Whereas, a HEAVY DRINKER is someone who consumes 1-2 drinks per day.

So, the dad that comes home from work and drinks a beer or a glass of wine is an alcoholic and a heavy drinker.

Sorry, you asked.

Sorry to interject about this but your logic is laughable. Sign me up for A/A now....

 

[Roman]

Sorry to interject about this but your logic is laughable. Sign me up for A/A now....

Not MY logic, man. That's standard definitions out of textbooks (well, regurgitated text that I'm trying to remember).

I don't agree with the definitions, just as I don't agree with a lot of things, but it doesn't invalidate it as the accepted standard used in psychology and courtrooms.

Okay, looked it up, it's the NIAAA that wrote the numbers, not me.

 

[kennadog]

Somebody who gets a DUI is not necessarily an alcoholic. That is a leap of the imagination. Somebody who just went out and had some drinks with friends one night is as capable of getting a DUI (and killing someone) as an alcoholic.

Honestly, I don't think there is a magic number of drinks per day or week that make you an alcoholic. (Altho, if you kill a 6-pack every night after work, I'd be suspicious, lol.)

Here's some indicators, if you have the ability to be honest with yourself.

http://www.d12.com/Resources/Alcoholism%20Self-Test.htm

I can't remember the comedien, it was years ago. He admitted he was an alcoholic and got help, because he'd drink once a year. Of course, it was because he'd wake up two weeks later and wouldn't be able to remember a thing.

 

[kennadog]

Nice post Kenna

Thanks Ryle. Its a touchy subject for me. For every alcoholic, there are friends and family whose lives are damaged, too.

 

[Roman]

Somebody who gets a DUI is not necessarily an alcoholic. That is a leap of the imagination. Somebody who just went out and had some drinks with friends one night is as capable of getting a DUI (and killing someone) as an alcoholic.

Quite true.

Here's a publication:

http://alcoholism.about.com/library/weekly/aa020930a.htm

 

[kennadog]

Quite true.

Here's a publication:

http://alcoholism.about.com/library/weekly/aa020930a.htm

I must say, tho, for years only two of our friends, his mother and I thought my ex-husband had a "drinking problem."

 

[vj9999]

Here is my opinion.

I believe that people who drive home after having "couple" of drinks are a majority and only a small portion of them get caught. That does not make those who didn't get caught "responsible" and those who did scum of the earth.

DUI is a tricky crime caused by poor judgment and anyone who has few drinks is likely to commit it. It doesn't matter if you are a doctor, priest or a janitor. It can happen to anyone.

Just because people don't get caught when driving legally drunk does not make it right.

Having a "plan" to get a ride home is nice, but if you get really drunk you are not always going to do a right thing. In a fear of sounding as a hypocrite, I'll share my story. Five years ago I was fresh out of college and still in my "college partying mode" on the weekends. I had a perfect plan. My friend was driving that night and we were staying at his house. We went out drinking, had a great time. Came back to his house and for some reason while my friend was unlocking his house door I went to my car which was parked on the street. At that moment I blacked out and drove 20 yards in a straight line and hit a car that was parked in front of me.

I got a "slap on the wrist" thanks to Illinois first offender court supervision law (which doesn't count a guilty plea as a conviction on your record - second DUI would automatically count the first DUI as conviction too).

I learned my lesson and I have not had a single drink in 5 years. Sad thing is that I am a atypical example. Most people who have one DUI will probably go out and drink and drive again.

There is a reason legal limit is .08 . It is not because some legislators have decided that it is a cute number. It is because your judgment, coordination and ability to react slows down once you get to that limit. You can appear and act sober, but science proves that you are not.

I was against drunk driving before my DUI and I am even more against it now. It is a stupid and avoidable crime. I still cannot drive past my friends house and think would could have happened that night.

I think everyone who drinks and drives, no matter how drunk, deserves to be called names and deserves to be publicly embarrassed one way or another.

It is sad though that not many of us learn from our mistakes (or even mistakes of others).

I hate my self for what I did, but luckily I have learned from my mistake and decided that I'd rather never drink again, than jeopardize doing something stupid like that again.

What Muss did was wrong and he got caught. It doesn't mean he should get fired, but he should be ready to accept the consequences.