steelevt
All-Star
did dr holmes account get hacked by SLAB?
[Game] Kings @ Warriors, 1/4/2020, 7PM PST, 10PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
yet another forum burner account.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Just a couple of folks who know good basketball! Lol
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
It only took 6 games and I‘ve already started recording games, not caring to watch live, and fast forwarding through all the garbage play.
Needless to say, I fast forwarded through most the past two games and am glad I didn’t waste more time watching.
Honestly, there’s not much motivation for me to watch outside of Swipa and Haliburton. My wife loves HB, and being a UNC bball fan — I like him too. But with Haliburton missing another game and the team not able to play defense or make shots even at a YMCA rate — I’m already effing bored.
I really miss looking forward to games and watching live. The ongoing BS play has taken that away from me. Again.
Needless to say, I fast forwarded through most the past two games and am glad I didn’t waste more time watching.
Honestly, there’s not much motivation for me to watch outside of Swipa and Haliburton. My wife loves HB, and being a UNC bball fan — I like him too. But with Haliburton missing another game and the team not able to play defense or make shots even at a YMCA rate — I’m already effing bored.
I really miss looking forward to games and watching live. The ongoing BS play has taken that away from me. Again.
yup that’s on the coach let me guess him not knowing how to set a ****ing screen is Luke’s fault as well
This isn’t a ringing endorsement dude didn’t like Spolstra for no apparent reason
kb02
All-Star
Some Truths and Opinions:
1. Kings miss Haliburton. He's our best player.
2. Bagley has struggled. It's not because he's still essentially a rookie or because of rust. It's because he's playing against starters and the league now has two full years of film on him. If we can see his faults, opponents can certainly see and exploit them. Exhibit #1: see the the two charging fouls against Draymond. Exhibit #2: see the strips against Bags in Houston. Exhibit #3: see opponents jumping Bags left hand when he brings the ball up after a rebound (because he can't cross or use his right hand effectively)...
3. McNair needs to choose a direction now. I know the plan was for this year to be a development year, but it's going to be a treadmill year. Why? Haliburton is already running at his floor, which is Doug Christie. While Bags is running at his floor, which, after 3 years, is starting to look like Kenny Thomas. Trade for assets that will allow the Kings to make the playoffs this year or blow it up and go get that third cornerstone.
4. Did Buddy lose sleep last night over those tweets? His shots weren't just off, dude looked like he was running in sand. Is he hurt?
5. Fire Walton. Trade Bagley. Trade Buddy. The sooner, the better.
6. Players that I want on the Kings next year: Lu Dort and/or Lonzo Ball. Maybe John Collins. A top 2 pick.
1. Kings miss Haliburton. He's our best player.
2. Bagley has struggled. It's not because he's still essentially a rookie or because of rust. It's because he's playing against starters and the league now has two full years of film on him. If we can see his faults, opponents can certainly see and exploit them. Exhibit #1: see the the two charging fouls against Draymond. Exhibit #2: see the strips against Bags in Houston. Exhibit #3: see opponents jumping Bags left hand when he brings the ball up after a rebound (because he can't cross or use his right hand effectively)...
3. McNair needs to choose a direction now. I know the plan was for this year to be a development year, but it's going to be a treadmill year. Why? Haliburton is already running at his floor, which is Doug Christie. While Bags is running at his floor, which, after 3 years, is starting to look like Kenny Thomas. Trade for assets that will allow the Kings to make the playoffs this year or blow it up and go get that third cornerstone.
4. Did Buddy lose sleep last night over those tweets? His shots weren't just off, dude looked like he was running in sand. Is he hurt?
5. Fire Walton. Trade Bagley. Trade Buddy. The sooner, the better.
6. Players that I want on the Kings next year: Lu Dort and/or Lonzo Ball. Maybe John Collins. A top 2 pick.
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King Baller
All-Star
How can the league have two full years of film on Bagley? He barely played last season and the previous year was his rookie season.
The Kings have looked bad the last three games, Bagley included. Last nights game was Bubble level bad. The Kings played no defense and could not make any shots. I still think McNair wants a longer look at what he has before he makes any changes.
kb02
All-Star
So the issue is not with the evidence, but with how much film there is?
King Baller
All-Star
The issue is calling 2 3
Hey Bagley has not played well overall, but has shown flashes. It is not the time to trade him or Buddy though.
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Volblorx8634
Bench
It's on both of them. Yes, Bagley should know how to set a screen. But what should a coach of a player who doesn't know how to set a screen do? Teach him how to set a freakin screen.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Are you telling me that you expect a coach to coach?
The Kings offense has deteriorated by a lot. DA Fox is a bright spot and he continues to break down defenses by himself. Barnes has been consistent in a supporting role. Mr. Holmes is still playing hard. Bagley seems over rated especially on defense and in the paint. Hield is missing in action. Bjelica seems a little lost and a little slow afoot. Whiteside can play in spurts, but cannot save them.
Albatros
Starter
How do we know he hasn't done that? Some players are just not coachable or just don't have the mental/physical/desire/ ability or capacity to play the game at a high level consistently.
If all players did every player in the league would be as good as LeBron.
LeBron leads the way because he is a physical freak that is bigger and faster and stronger than most humans. The fact that he works hard and has a complete game only adds to his dominance.
Most of us learned a long time ago, that no matter how much we worked at this maddening game of basketball, our physical ability could only take us so far. Even if we had the mental game and played like a coach's son, we would run into players that were just physically superior. As a teenager I once played every day for about 2 years. Then it dawned on me that playing in college was going to be a big challenge.
I have mentioned before about playing on the beach at Laguna in So Cal. There is one full court. You get a team together and wait for a chance to play. We did not do so well. We played against five guys that were all dunking the ball on us. After the game I asked a guy "who were those guys?" The reply was "they all used to play for UCLA."
Most of us learned a long time ago, that no matter how much we worked at this maddening game of basketball, our physical ability could only take us so far. Even if we had the mental game and played like a coach's son, we would run into players that were just physically superior. As a teenager I once played every day for about 2 years. Then it dawned on me that playing in college was going to be a big challenge.
I have mentioned before about playing on the beach at Laguna in So Cal. There is one full court. You get a team together and wait for a chance to play. We did not do so well. We played against five guys that were all dunking the ball on us. After the game I asked a guy "who were those guys?" The reply was "they all used to play for UCLA."
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Livinthedream
All-Star
Of course the coaches don't ask players to play bad. But coaching matters, otherwise..... you don't need coaches. How you teach it, how you communicate it and the expectations you set all come into play. Human nature is to lean into things you do well and stay away from your weak points. Coaches have to be able to communicate how a player doing certain things benefits them as well as the team. It's that "buying in" thing. Highly paid, top athletes aren't going to automatically buy in as easily as a g league guy just trying to hold onto his NBA dream. And it has nothing to do with selfishness, a bad attitude or being uncoachable.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Because absolutely no one else on the team sets screens either
Volblorx8634
Bench
Certainly true that Luke may be coaching him and he simply isn't improving, although I don't think he'd be LeBron if he responded well to coaching. There aren't a lot of LeBrons in this world regardless of how coachable they are.
However, when it comes to on court execution, I think there's so very many fundamental basketball skills (e.g. setting screens, boxing out) that haven't seemed to improve much in the last year plus since Luke took over. Plus the in game coaching issues that I think would make at least questioning Luke's ability to coach and develop players fair.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Exactly. The other part of being a coach/leader is consistency in message.
Using Bagley as an example. Have Bagley to play a certain way within the offense. He does well. Team is winning, but no matter, you keep decreasing his minutes. With the biggest decrease coming after maybe the best 1st half of his career. What's the message? Walton lost him.
This is what Walton did to Buddy last year. Telling Buddy it's because of his defense when the whole team was blowing defensive assignments.
You can’t get consistency or buy in from players when they don't trust what you're telling them.
kb02
All-Star
By that definition, the Kings should hire Marvin Bagley 2.0 as the coach. He's been consistent and will surely get the most out of 3.0.
I'm done with Walton, Bagley, and Buddy. All three need to be elsewhere this time next year.
Livinthedream
All-Star
If they're all gone next season, so be it. But say what you mean and mean what you say as a coach while you're here.
Albatros
Starter
Well we'll see what happens when invariably Gentry takes over. I'm sure all these players will miraculously be able to do so.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I’m not so sure screening as long and hard as Walton’s system requires is going to be a thing under Gentry
vladtheimpaler
G-League
let's assume, for the moment, that luke is in this job "for the money" and will do whatever he is told to do, with regards to winning and losing.
(and i don't mean "throwing games" - i mean "playing combinations that aren't going to work against that night's opponent")
you can't expect players to "tank" - but the coach can control that by who (and WITH whom) he puts on the floor as a unit.
"tanking" can also be "player development".
for instance, neither buddy nor bagley should have played much after the first quarter - neither was effective.
quarter number two could have/should have been a time to play the young guys - but that wasn't done.
when guys have as brutal a first quarter/first half as buddy/bags, you simply (as a coach) have to recognize that "this isn't your night, kid" and play someone else, especially when the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
(unless the staff has already concluded that the new young guys are not long term nba players, just "roster fillers".
there is also a second way to proceed and that is to tell the two players who are playing the worst (and last night, it was buddy and baggy) that if they want to continue for the remaining three quarters (last night), they need to have one specific goal, one thing to "work on" (over and over and over).
buddy: either use the rest of the game to work on driving to the basket and cease shooting three's (for this one game) or take a seat.
bagley: if the intention was to allow him to work on his post-up moves against real competition, ok, live with that.
but a better solution regarding bagley is to say, "you need to do one thing and do it until you are good at it - then move to something else" and in bagley's case, start with his strength: which is (say it with me now) REBOUNDING.
bagley has a nose for the ball and one of the quickest second jumps in the league.
i don't know if today's players even know who dennis rodman was, let alone moses malone.
give bags some video to watch and bring in a big man who has actually played the game successfully to discuss rebounding with him (since we know he has some natural ability there). otis thorpe sat in my row when the kings closed arco and honored past players. guy has a ring and is a good guy. bring him in as a "one player coach". if bags can't learn something from him, then he just isn't teachable. i'd say, "bring in rodman" but that is always an explosion waiting for detonation, but at least watch some film of him.
marvin bagley could lead the league in rebounding if he focused solely on that (as rodman did). maybe someone in the FO has to tell him, we will pay you big money if you show us a skill that you excel in - and more once you take on new skills (next: p/r)
but start with one skill. ALL he should be focused on is grabbing every rebound. if he has an easy putback, take it, but mostly just grab the board and toss it out to a guard (we have enough shooters). baggy may not even know that rodman has rings and was once paid 6 million a year to do NOTHING but rebound (probably equals 15-20 mil today).
guys want to score, because they think "that's where the money is", but that's not the ONLY place the money is.
bagley COULD start out as a one dimensional rodman type and develop into a moses malone type - there is plenty of time.
a good coach puts his players in a position to succeed.
asking bags to be a well rounded machine at this point is pointless - he can't do it and his confidence will soon be shot.
give him one thing to "be the best" at and ask him to work on his offensive moves in practice, not (yet) in games.
assure him that, "if you board, you play" (and "get paid").
otherwise, he is a wasted draft pick.
same with buddy.
my two centimeters.
(and i don't mean "throwing games" - i mean "playing combinations that aren't going to work against that night's opponent")
you can't expect players to "tank" - but the coach can control that by who (and WITH whom) he puts on the floor as a unit.
"tanking" can also be "player development".
for instance, neither buddy nor bagley should have played much after the first quarter - neither was effective.
quarter number two could have/should have been a time to play the young guys - but that wasn't done.
when guys have as brutal a first quarter/first half as buddy/bags, you simply (as a coach) have to recognize that "this isn't your night, kid" and play someone else, especially when the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
(unless the staff has already concluded that the new young guys are not long term nba players, just "roster fillers".
there is also a second way to proceed and that is to tell the two players who are playing the worst (and last night, it was buddy and baggy) that if they want to continue for the remaining three quarters (last night), they need to have one specific goal, one thing to "work on" (over and over and over).
buddy: either use the rest of the game to work on driving to the basket and cease shooting three's (for this one game) or take a seat.
bagley: if the intention was to allow him to work on his post-up moves against real competition, ok, live with that.
but a better solution regarding bagley is to say, "you need to do one thing and do it until you are good at it - then move to something else" and in bagley's case, start with his strength: which is (say it with me now) REBOUNDING.
bagley has a nose for the ball and one of the quickest second jumps in the league.
i don't know if today's players even know who dennis rodman was, let alone moses malone.
give bags some video to watch and bring in a big man who has actually played the game successfully to discuss rebounding with him (since we know he has some natural ability there). otis thorpe sat in my row when the kings closed arco and honored past players. guy has a ring and is a good guy. bring him in as a "one player coach". if bags can't learn something from him, then he just isn't teachable. i'd say, "bring in rodman" but that is always an explosion waiting for detonation, but at least watch some film of him.
marvin bagley could lead the league in rebounding if he focused solely on that (as rodman did). maybe someone in the FO has to tell him, we will pay you big money if you show us a skill that you excel in - and more once you take on new skills (next: p/r)
but start with one skill. ALL he should be focused on is grabbing every rebound. if he has an easy putback, take it, but mostly just grab the board and toss it out to a guard (we have enough shooters). baggy may not even know that rodman has rings and was once paid 6 million a year to do NOTHING but rebound (probably equals 15-20 mil today).
guys want to score, because they think "that's where the money is", but that's not the ONLY place the money is.
bagley COULD start out as a one dimensional rodman type and develop into a moses malone type - there is plenty of time.
a good coach puts his players in a position to succeed.
asking bags to be a well rounded machine at this point is pointless - he can't do it and his confidence will soon be shot.
give him one thing to "be the best" at and ask him to work on his offensive moves in practice, not (yet) in games.
assure him that, "if you board, you play" (and "get paid").
otherwise, he is a wasted draft pick.
same with buddy.
my two centimeters.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Aaron Bruski just went in on the Kings on Twitter about this type of thing. Development of young players. Said Cojo and Bjelica need to go and Walton needs to feed Bagley structured plays when you go to him.
Also talked about Walton not holding vets that he likes accountable for bad play. Only goes off on certain players.
Whether you like Bruski or not, he has knowledge of the organization, but he isn't caught up in it emotionally. Objective commentary on the team.
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I'm not so sure about objective but he certainly tries to come at things from a perspective that isn't "Yay Kings" or "Yay KANGZ"
Also it is incredibly frustrating that Luke seems perfectly fine with guys like CoJo having lapses in defensive plays and/or being a total blackhole on offense (also to an extent Bogi when he was here) but spent all last season driving a wedge between himself and Buddy over essentially the same exact issue.
If we dump Bagley now it will be the biggest LOL KANGZ move ever but we have to put him in the position to succeed and I don't think our current coach is able to do that. He knows he is dead man walking and thinks if he can win games it will save his job or make him more attractive around the league or to NCAA where maybe he really belongs. I was hopeful that we wouldn't have to spend the majority of the season with a coach with an official (i) next to his title but it really is looking like there is no way forward other than one of the emergency Gentry/Kalamian routes.
Hopefully Luke can see the error in continuing to start Bagley. We need someone who at a minimum is just competent.... All this team needs is stability from the PF and backup PG position. I rather see Guy then Cojo 9 times out of 10 in the ball game. At least Guy try's to make the right pass.. Why Luke cannot see this is beyond me. Fox and Barnes are playing so well right now it wouldn't be much to get us over top. Here is an odd idea, how about playing Barnes at SG and Nem at PF and Glen at SF and see what happens.
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