[Game] Kings @ Warriors, 1/4/2020, 7PM PST, 10PM EST

[Livinthedream]

Hopefully Luke can see the error in continuing to start Bagley. We need someone who at a minimum is just competent.... All this team needs is stability from the PF and backup PG position. I rather see Guy then Cojo 9 times out of 10 in the ball game. At least Guy try's to make the right pass.. Why Luke cannot see this is beyond me. Fox and Barnes are playing so well right now it wouldn't be much to get us over top. Here is an odd idea, how about playing Barnes at SG and Nem at PF and Glen at SF and see what happens.

Sorry. Kyle Guy and Nemanja Bjelica are not the answer.

 

[Volblorx8634]

Aaron Bruski just went in on the Kings on Twitter about this type of thing. Development of young players. Said Cojo and Bjelica need to go and Walton needs to feed Bagley structured plays when you go to him.

Also talked about Walton not holding vets that he likes accountable for bad play. Only goes off on certain players.

Whether you like Bruski or not, he has knowledge of the organization, but he isn't caught up in it emotionally. Objective commentary on the team.

The frustrating thing isn't the losses, it's the inconsistency in the goal. I'm fine losing if in the process we are giving our young guys reps and allowing them to strengthen their games. At this point, both in game systems and rotations are not consistent with improving our young players and they don't result in winning games either. The last couple games this team has felt like it's running on a hamster wheel getting nowhere. Probably not a coincidence that it was the two games Haliburton missed.

 

[Sam0ah]

Sorry. Kyle Guy and Nemanja Bjelica are not the answer.

I never said they were gods gift to basketball, but they are not black holes like Cojo and Bagley atm..

 

[Tetsujin]

Hopefully Luke can see the error in continuing to start Bagley. We need someone who at a minimum is just competent.... All this team needs is stability from the PF and backup PG position. I rather see Guy then Cojo 9 times out of 10 in the ball game. At least Guy try's to make the right pass.. Why Luke cannot see this is beyond me. Fox and Barnes are playing so well right now it wouldn't be much to get us over top. Here is an odd idea, how about playing Barnes at SG and Nem at PF and Glen at SF and see what happens.

the issues brought on by us playing big aren’t gonna be solved by us trying to play even bigger.

 

[Livinthedream]

I never said they were gods gift to basketball, but they are not black holes like Cojo and Bagley atm..

I understand where you're coming from. Where we differ is I think the problems are a little more about philosophy than lineups.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The frustrating thing isn't the losses, it's the inconsistency in the goal. I'm fine losing if in the process we are giving our young guys reps and allowing them to strengthen their games. At this point, both in game systems and rotations are not consistent with improving our young players and they don't result in winning games either. The last couple games this team has felt like it's running on a hamster wheel getting nowhere. Probably not a coincidence that it was the two games Haliburton missed.

It was really neat when we won a few games against a good team like Denver that we may have just matched up really well with but if Houston wasn't a reality check I don't know what was. We should be playing to improve and evaluate how to move forward. That may at times mean highlighting guys like CoJo and Buddy (even Barnes) in an attempt to package them out of town but it doesn't mean ramming them down our throats to play out of slumps which actually harms development and kills their value. I would think that if CoJo and Buddy looked like guys that could contribute to a playoff team after game 4 they look immovable as of last night. Obviously GMs think bigger picture but still.

I think we have a halfway decent core and a lot of flexibility with all the contracts coming off the books. Stockpiling picks if we can do it seems far more effective than landing a FA at this time. Monte has his work cut out for him.

 

[Albatros]

Aaron Bruski just went in on the Kings on Twitter about this type of thing. Development of young players. Said Cojo and Bjelica need to go and Walton needs to feed Bagley structured plays when you go to him.

Also talked about Walton not holding vets that he likes accountable for bad play. Only goes off on certain players.

Whether you like Bruski or not, he has knowledge of the organization, but he isn't caught up in it emotionally. Objective commentary on the team.

I hate him.

 

[SacTownKid]

This isn’t a ringing endorsement dude didn’t like Spolstra for no apparent reason

And he sure showed him in last year too didn't he.

He didn't ****can Spoelstra the way he did Walton. Walton wasn't even a bug on the windshield in his world.

 

[SacTownKid]

I just don't think it's automatically the coaches fault if a player sets a bad screen or shoots like crap.

I don't believe for a minute they ask them to do that in practice.

Where they set up on the floor, the plays they run, and the rotation is ALL on the coach. All of it. They are executing a gameplan for sure and not at all the gameplan Monte laid out prior to the season.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Where they set up on the floor, the plays they run, and the rotation is ALL on the coach. All of it. They are executing a gameplan for sure and not at all the gameplan Monte laid out prior to the season.

To whatever extent "players coach themselves" at the end of the day Walton is setting the rotations and putting whoever is out on the floor at any given time and it's quite telling that he has no clue what to do with this roster to win games or develop young talent.

I know he wasn't loved in Laker land as coach but I do think he was doing ok before LeBron showed up and the goal went from player development to win a ring yesterday. And perhaps that has completely gotten in his head. Because he coached Golden State competently, and Lute Olson and Phil Jackson and yes his dad, are sound basketball minds that also knew how to deal with the players of their eras. But he lost that team and he has lost this team.

 

[dude12]

Ive been saying for a long time as others have as well, it makes no sense to give Cojo heavy minutes, Bjelica also isn’t going to be here so I’d minimize his minutes as well. It’s not a playoff team so why wait until the trade deadline to start playing the youngsters. Mix these guys in with some of the normal rotation guys and see what happens. Evaluate them. Bagley needs to be out there so you can be absolutely sure you want to keep him or move on.

Woodard looks like he can contribute defensively right now. Metu sure looks interesting as a live wire big, Ramsey looks like a knockdown shooter but possibly not ready for much else.......but you have to run guys out there to see what we got.

 

[Livinthedream]

I hate him.

You must not let the hate consume you.

 

[SacTownKid]

To whatever extent "players coach themselves" at the end of the day Walton is setting the rotations and putting whoever is out on the floor at any given time and it's quite telling that he has no clue what to do with this roster to win games or develop young talent.

I know he wasn't loved in Laker land as coach but I do think he was doing ok before LeBron showed up and the goal went from player development to win a ring yesterday. And perhaps that has completely gotten in his head. Because he coached Golden State competently, and Lute Olson and Phil Jackson and yes his dad, are sound basketball minds that also knew how to deal with the players of their eras. But he lost that team and he has lost this team.

And there is always still a chance that possibly Vivek is getting in the way, I doubt it though. And the start of the season has proven to me that Vlade wasn't calling the shots down to the bench either. This IS Luke Walton.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And there is always still a chance that possibly Vivek is getting in the way, I doubt it though. And the start of the season has proven to me that Vlade wasn't calling the shots down to the bench either. This IS Luke Walton.

Granted they've played 4/6 on the road (is that right?) so we may see a lot of Vivek on the upcoming homestretch, but he's been invisible from what I've seen so far.

 

[gunks]

Vivek is grooming his son for a front office position. There’s zero chance he’s not gonna get in the way. He’s just smart enough to be low key about it these days.

I mean, we got the Dumars/McNair too many cooks in the kitchen dynamic.... That approach has been Vivek’s thing since he bought the team and had the two headed monster of Mullin and Petey D making horrible decisions.

 

[ESP47]

Aaron Bruski just went in on the Kings on Twitter about this type of thing. Development of young players. Said Cojo and Bjelica need to go and Walton needs to feed Bagley structured plays when you go to him.

Also talked about Walton not holding vets that he likes accountable for bad play. Only goes off on certain players.

Whether you like Bruski or not, he has knowledge of the organization, but he isn't caught up in it emotionally. Objective commentary on the team.

The team started 3-1 so I don't really have complaints about Luke trying to win. You try to win until it's obvious that it's not going to happen and at that point you tank via young player development. We may be in the midst of that turning point already and at that point it will be torches and pitchforks if Luke continues to play Cojo and the like for the rest of the season.

Would Bagley improve with structured plays that were designed for him? It would certainly improve his stats a little bit but it's not going to give him better hands or make him stronger or smarter. I have no idea what kind of work he puts in on the practice court or in the gym but he doesn't look like he's putting in the effort to me. Body looks the same, skills look worse, defense looks the same....everything is just the same or worse than it was 2 years ago. His stats are declining every year.

Small sample size this year but it has the look of a guy who the league has scouted and he hasn't made any adjustments or put in the work because he's always gotten by on his god given gifts and probably not his work ethic.

 

[Albatros]

Where they set up on the floor, the plays they run, and the rotation is ALL on the coach. All of it. They are executing a gameplan for sure and not at all the gameplan Monte laid out prior to the season.

I don't know what that's got to do with what I said but yes obviously the gameplan is on the coach.

He does not, I assume, plan to play like crap.

Set plays, systems etc obviously play into it but players are a huge huge part of execution.

 

[ppine]

Call me naive, but I think "tanking" is mostly irrelevant in the NBA. Teams that lose a lot only look like they are doing it on purpose.

What is relevant, is that there are a lot of talented teen agers, that get drafted into the NBA. Some of them have attended prep schools or academies with really good coaches. Some have come from average high schools, or even podunk little places where the main coaching advice was "give our best player the ball and try to help him rebound and play defense." Players can get coddled and some do not get much in the way of coaching.

The next problem is all of the players that get only one year of college play. They see the dollar signs and are one and done. This last year college schedules have been disrupted. Some of these players are 5 or 10 games from high school and are playing against LeBron James.

Our announcers made the point last game against the Worriers, that there was a new guy that had already played more games this year in the NBA than he played in his whole college career. Bagley got to play at Duke, but for how long? He makes fundamental mistakes every game. The question is can he figure out how to stop making those mistakes with quality coaching?

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't know what that's got to do with what I said but yes obviously the gameplan is on the coach.

He does not, I assume, plan to play like crap.

Set plays, systems etc obviously play into it but players are a huge huge part of execution.

The gameplan is supposed to put players in the best position to succeed. If they are and these are the results, then that's on the players. Until they are though, it's on the coach.