Kings Preseason game 2 vs. Portland. Wed 7 p.m. Game Thread (redux)

[SacTownKid]

Brockman is much more offensively polished than we gave him credit for. From what I saw during the practice scrimmages the guy knows how to put it away in the post. I'm not saying he is great or anything, but I expected to see Greg Ostertag like agility from him on offense, and so far I'm seeing much more Corliss Williamson type energy.

Don't sleep on Brockman! He played the role of "go to" guy here and there at Washington. He has a knack for hitting shots off the backboard. It also appears that he's really working on his jumper which will only mean really good things for him and for us as well. He mentioned something about his passing skills that nobody really knows about and I have seen that from him a bit in college as well. He sees the court well and can handle the ball pretty good too.

 

[Chupacabra]

#1: Its preseason. Any given team can look like trash on any given night during the preseason.
#2: Portland is a far superior team anyway. I think theyre a top 4 team in the West. Possibly the 3rd best.

 

[Sac.1989]

it sure is pre season, artest just lead the lakers in rebounds, assists and steals

 

[Kingster]

There is a small but vocal group of people that, for whatever reason, seems to think Donte Greene is, in fact, a diamond in the rough. It's been everyone else's fault but his that his brilliance has not been allowed to shine.

He's athletic and he has potential. But so far he hasn't translated that into anything consistent on the floor. I don't have any problem with Westphal not playing him if he's not bringing it in practice. If he's not ready for NBA minutes I'll say the same thing I said early last year - send him to the developmental league. Why he didn't spend the entire year there last year is beyond me.

 

[Kingster]

Excuse me, but just what the hell did you people expect. The LA Lakers! We're in a rebuild, with mostly young players, and half of them have never played together before. We have a new coach, putting in a new system, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't in a preseaon game, and a lot of you folks are criticizing as though its a playoff game.

Have any of you played organized sports before? If so, engage your brain and remember how long it took for your team to get on the same page. My God, if this is the reaction to a stinking preseason game, then its going to be a long season. I'm by no means defending anything that happened tonight. Didn't see it. Didn't hear it. And don't care. When the real season starts, then I'll care.

Bajaden, it's only just beginning. Coach is crap, rotations are lousy, we're soft in the middle, no assists, Tyreke can't play no point guard, and why the heck can't we beat one of the better teams in the league?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Bajaden, it's only just beginning. Coach is crap, rotations are lousy, we're soft in the middle, no assists, Tyreke can't play no point guard, and why the heck can't we beat one of the better teams in the league?

This isn't fair though.. This stuff is all old news for kings fans.. We've had the same problems for years now and that's why there is some minor complaints. I think almost everything that has been written in this game thread are legit issues with this team, and the reason this is happening so early in The season is because it's the same issues we were talking about 3 years ago.

 

[rhythmless]

Passing is infinitely faster than dribbling, especially if the other team us trapping.

Oh, I agree completely. But the kings weren't doing that either. They would pass to the open man (usually our designated center), and he would slowly walk the ball up past midcourt. Not just good basketball people, but KINGS basketball.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I hope you didn't just accuse Camby of being tough...

Tougher than anyone that's over 6'7 that we have on our team of softies right now. At least Camby knows how to grab alot of rebounds and...shhh, don tell Jerry Reynolds...BLOCK SHOTS!

 

[kennadog]

I come in here to look at comments about a pre-season game and its seems like mostly an outpouring of criticism about a pre-season game. I actually wasn't feeling all that bad about only losing by 3 points to the Blazers, a much better team.

The Kings won 17 games last year. The Blazers won 54, without Oden being full-strength for the whole season. Kings have a new coach. McMillan is going into his 4th season as head coach of the Blazers. Kings one of the youngest teams in the league and has 3 rookies. Portland older, more experienced, only one rookie playing. Lottery picks in last 6 years: Portland's had 5, including a number 1 and top six 3 times. Sacramento's had 3 with #4 being the highest and the only one in the top 6.

We've said the rebuilding will take time and yet by reading a lot of the posts here, you'd think this team was expected to change overnight and immediately start to beat far superior teams. Portland didn't. Prior to last season, the Blazers were bad enough to be in the lottery 5 straight years.

 

[bajaden]

This isn't fair though.. This stuff is all old news for kings fans.. We've had the same problems for years now and that's why there is some minor complaints. I think almost everything that has been written in this game thread are legit issues with this team, and the reason this is happening so early in The season is because it's the same issues we were talking about 3 years ago.

Fair enough. But do you really expect Westphal to fix all the problems your talking about in a few practices and two exhibition games. Especially with a very young team and half of it made up of new players. Lets apply a little logic here. For heavens sake, give the team a little time to come together. I appreciate your frustration, but your not alone on this journey. I've been here from the start, 25 years ago, so don't give me this last few years stuff. I've said from the beginning that patience will be needed.

Remember, you can't blame Westphal for what happened before him. So give him time to do what ever it is he's trying to do...

 

[TaxMan]

This isn't fair though.. This stuff is all old news for kings fans.. We've had the same problems for years now and that's why there is some minor complaints. I think almost everything that has been written in this game thread are legit issues with this team, and the reason this is happening so early in The season is because it's the same issues we were talking about 3 years ago.

Then criticize the timing of the rebuild because it doesn't happen overnight. We are in year two of full rebuild. I'm with you on what happened prior to last year and the meandering we did as an organization for 2 or 3 years, but at this point we're at the bottom and working our way up. It will take a bit of time to work out of it. Last year needs to be viewed as the year we hit "reset" on the team....not 3 years ago.

 

[TaxMan]

I come in here to look at comments about a pre-season game and its seems like mostly an outpouring of criticism about a pre-season game. I actually wasn't feeling all that bad about only losing by 3 points to the Blazers, a much better team.

The Kings won 17 games last year. The Blazers won 54, without Oden being full-strength for the whole season. Kings have a new coach. McMillan is going into his 4th season as head coach of the Blazers. Kings one of the youngest teams in the league and has 3 rookies. Portland older, more experienced, only one rookie playing. Lottery picks in last 6 years: Portland's had 5, including a number 1 and top six 3 times. Sacramento's had 3 with #4 being the highest and the only one in the top 6.

We've said the rebuilding will take time and yet by reading a lot of the posts here, you'd think this team was expected to change overnight and immediately start to beat far superior teams. Portland didn't. Prior to last season, the Blazers were bad enough to be in the lottery 5 straight years.

Bingo

 

[Oprostaj]

Fair enough. But do you really expect Westphal to fix all the problems your talking about in a few practices and two exhibition games. Especially with a very young team and half of it made up of new players. Lets apply a little logic here. For heavens sake, give the team a little time to come together. I appreciate your frustration, but your not alone on this journey. I've been here from the start, 25 years ago, so don't give me this last few years stuff. I've said from the beginning that patience will be needed.

Remember, you can't blame Westphal for what happened before him. So give him time to do what ever it is he's trying to do...

Altough I agree with you, and with both comments Taxman made, what he is trying to say, along with my way of thinking... is that this should have been done a while ago, and should have been blown up. I understand you preach patience, and I do appreciate your insight from 25 years ago. However, I wouldn't care if we rebuild 20 times, as long as we rebuild, not retool, not patch. I still don't feel like we completely hit the reset button, altought we are in much better shape and I am fairly optimistic we won't be the bottom feeder we were last year.

For example, take a look at the Florida Marlins (I know it's not a great comparison, but please bear with me, and try to see the bigger picture of what I'm saying here). Cheap ownership won't allow them to have a payroll to let them be anywhere near competitive, and after both times they won the WS, they COMPLETELY blew up the roster. They traded EVERYBODY, and I mean EVERYBODY. They played with a 30 Mil payroll, sucked ***, but then won again in 7-8 years.

I just hate "treading water", which is what I felt we were doing up until now. We need to scout better, draft a bit better ( I know, difficult to get top talent at middle portions of draft, we haven't been lucky like Portland, but how long since our last "holy **** how the hell did we get this guy" player? I know the economy is not helping us with being able to entice FAs, along with our location, which is why I will reserve judgment until I see how the team plays. I just really hope there is a grand plan in the works.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Fair enough. But do you really expect Westphal to fix all the problems your talking about in a few practices and two exhibition games. Especially with a very young team and half of it made up of new players. Lets apply a little logic here. For heavens sake, give the team a little time to come together. I appreciate your frustration, but your not alone on this journey. I've been here from the start, 25 years ago, so don't give me this last few years stuff. I've said from the beginning that patience will be needed.

Remember, you can't blame Westphal for what happened before him. So give him time to do what ever it is he's trying to do...

I get what your saying and your right. I'm not here hammering Westphal really.... In fact, he started to win me over during the offseason and I do expect this team to improve from last year... I just have my doubt sometimes because I know how it's been in the past.

I'm not judging him yet, I'm Just pointing out some early moves I don't agree with. I think that's fair to do, even in the pre season...

 

[TaxMan]

I still don't feel like we completely hit the reset button, altought we are in much better shape and I am fairly optimistic we won't be the bottom feeder we were last year.

If they haven't blown up the roster at this point, I'm not sure what else they can do. You have to field a team of at least 12. You're always going to have some level of patch work on the roster (i.e. the bargain basement Masons and Elys of the world), but the core of the team has pretty much completely changed within the last 2 years (with the exception of Martin, but of course you don't just dump him for peanuts.) Sure you could quibble with hanging on to Noc....or the contracts given prior to last year to Beno and Garcia....however, with the salary cap rules in the NBA, sometimes it's not a question of moving contracts like that, but when is the right time. I don't think having those players on the team necessarily means they aren't fully in rebuilding mode. To me, I see rebuilding as bringing in a new core, not necessarily the make-up of fringe players on the roster.

 

[Oprostaj]

If they haven't blown up the roster at this point, I'm not sure what else they can do. You have to field a team of at least 12. You're always going to have some level of patch work on the roster (i.e. the bargain basement Masons and Elys of the world), but the core of the team has pretty much completely changed within the last 2 years (with the exception of Martin, but of course you don't just dump him for peanuts.) Sure you could quibble with hanging on to Noc....or the contracts given prior to last year to Beno and Garcia....however, with the salary cap rules in the NBA, sometimes it's not a question of moving contracts like that, but when is the right time. I don't think having those players on the team necessarily means they aren't fully in rebuilding mode. To me, I see rebuilding as bringing in a new core, not necessarily the make-up of fringe players on the roster.

you're right, my feelings might be biased due to the idiotic moves made the past couple of years. good points though.

 

[Kingster]

Looking in the Rearview Mirror

This isn't fair though.. This stuff is all old news for kings fans.. We've had the same problems for years now and that's why there is some minor complaints. I think almost everything that has been written in this game thread are legit issues with this team, and the reason this is happening so early in The season is because it's the same issues we were talking about 3 years ago.

We have inexperience on this team and we have holes on this team. Hence, the 17 win season last year and less than machine-like performance. Where's the news? To criticize a pre-season game and coaching moves is beyond ridiculous. It says much much more about those criticising than the subject of the criticism. Obviously, the pain of the past is bleeding into the perception of the present. Give the coaching thing a rest, at least until January. Wash away the past, with tears if need be. Nothing Westphal or Petrie does is going to change it. The only possibility for being happy with the team we now have is to look forward, not backward.

 

[rainmaker]

It is way to early to start criticizing Westphal and the organization. Its october 8th. No one knows how this season will play out. But we have some promising young talent, and I am looking forward to he growth of JT and Hawes.

I think its absolutely rediculous to start calling out a new coach based on what happened before he arrived. Westphal has to give everyone an equal shot from the beginning, and he has to see for himself what talent base we have, not go off what happened with Theus and Natt. If Westphal doesn't give everyone an equal opportunity during the preseason, he risks losing his team by already having his mind made up weeks before the season starts.

Wstphal is tinkering with the lineups, and seeing what combinations work. Does anyone expect something else from a completely new coaching staff? Give these guys some time. I know some fans are still really pissed off about moves we have made recently, but this team is on the upswing. We will improve. But it doesn't happen overnight. We're still 3 weeks from opening night for christ sake.

I think its funny how each season fans start calling out Petrie and the coaching staff earlier and earlier.

 

[kennadog]

I think its funny how each season fans start calling out Petrie and the coaching staff earlier and earlier.

I'm not sure some folks ever stop. Some are accused of drinking the koolaid. I think there's some that are drinking the poison. If you mix them together, it can cause message board conflagrations.

 

[reid1boys]

Could we all agree Donte Greene is unlikely anytime soon if ever to be the Kings savior. WE NEED A LEGIT NBA BACK-UP CENTER NOW!

This stuff is hilarious. So lets say we get the BACKUP center you desire. What that would do for this team is take us froma 15-20 win season to a 23-28 win season. Yee Haw, Im on board for trading some young player with potential for that backup center.

 

[USNAVY15]

6TO and 14 points is the stat-line from hell for a stating PG. Evans has the tools to be effective, he just needs to stop playing outside his game. His game is open court, and finishing and rebounding and defense. He should not be taking jumpers unless they are wide open.

 

[PurpleHaze]

This stuff is hilarious. So lets say we get the BACKUP center you desire. What that would do for this team is take us froma 15-20 win season to a 23-28 win season. Yee Haw, Im on board for trading some young player with potential for that backup center.

It may be hilarious to you, but to a lot of Kings fans who pay some big money to attend games it's not funny.

I once attended at least a dozen Kings games each year when the home crowd at Arco really was a happening and meant something. The past three years it's been down to averaging only a couple games each season. I don't want to sit in a half empty, comatose arena, watching a joke of a team lucky to win four games a month.

I suggested a trade of someone like a Sergio Rodriguez because he has some value and a Donte Greene with little value as a way to get a decent back-up center for upcoming long 82 game season. Maybe have to throw in someone like Cisco Garcia instead of Greene to make it happen.

It's becoming clear after only 2 preseason games that current Kings front court is weakest in the entire league and will likely doom the team to another debacle season regardless of any other talent on the roster, the new coaching staff or how loud the declining number of fans at Arco can yell their lungs out.

Something has to be done instead of just waiting and hoping for miracle ping pong balls every year.

 

[Bricklayer]

Something has to be done instead of just waiting and hoping for miracle ping pong balls at the end of each season.

That something is probably not acquiring a backup center though.

At least not that alone. To cure the affliction you note, it is indeed either ping pong balls or a major trade. The backup center thing...emerging from the summer without one was ridiculous, but unless we can find a talented young one available, which they rarely are, its not worth trading away some of our future potential just for a short term patch. Maybe for one of our long term vet deals.

 

[kennadog]

It may be hilarious to you, but to a lot of Kings fans who pay some big money to attend games it's not funny.

I don't want to sit in a half empty, comatose arena, watching a joke of a team lucky to win four games a month.

Well, the arena sold out for one of the longest streaks in NBA history, when the Kings were the joke of the NBA year after year after year year.

I think its a two-way street. The fans could help boost the team some, too. I think that's partly why the Kings were pretty good at home all the years they were bottom feeders, before "that" team arrived.

Me, I go when I can afford to because its my home town team I'm supporting, whether they win or lose, suck or shine. I want them to know I support them. Supporting my team has nothing to do with the decisions or deciders or the individual players. Would I like them to be as good and better than ever? You bet, just like any other fan.

While I don't find our struggles "hilarious," I personally am not so upset I'll stop supporting my team, even with the few dollars I can afford.

 

[rhythmless]

I come in here to look at comments about a pre-season game and its seems like mostly an outpouring of criticism about a pre-season game. I actually wasn't feeling all that bad about only losing by 3 points to the Blazers, a much better team.

Wins and losses aren't the issue here. To me, it's how you win and lose, especially now when we have very little talent. The Kings were not coherant, did not play defense, did not cover their men, did not care for rotations. They didn't talk. They got in each other's way. They made it easier for the opposing team to defend them. You don't see any of this in a box score.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I agree that we need a backup center bad... Their is a reason Greg Oden put those big numbers up on us and it isn't just because its the preason... its because behind Hawes (who was injured and had limited minutes in the first game) there is no one... It sucks trying to play 2k10 using Sean May as your back up center. I'm not sure who is the right fit for that position but it needs to be someone with size and defensive prowess.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wins and losses aren't the issue here. To me, it's how you win and lose, especially now when we have very little talent. The Kings were not coherant, did not play defense, did not cover their men, did not care for rotations. They didn't talk. They got in each other's way. They made it easier for the opposing team to defend them. You don't see any of this in a box score.

Well did not play defense is of course a grave concern given the debacle last year -- Westphal's rep was always as an offensive coach, so you take a bunch of offensive offensive minded weenies and give them a new offensive minded coach...

But the lack of coherence....this is the preseason. And we aren't a team that has been together long. You expect some of that.

 

[reid1boys]

It may be hilarious to you, but to a lot of Kings fans who pay some big money to attend games it's not funny.


What is hilarious is that you think getting some back up center will somehow make any difference in how this team performs.
This team needs a whole lot more than a back up anything. This team needs a legit STAR to make a real impact.


Put Oden on this team, who was a number 1 pick and this team likely still doesnt even make the playoffs. So how the heck is a backup center going ot do anything? And if all it takes is a back up center to make people pay big dollars to comeout to Arco, you dont think they would do that?


Like i said, Hilarious.

 

[rainmaker]

6TO and 14 points is the stat-line from hell for a stating PG. Evans has the tools to be effective, he just needs to stop playing outside his game. His game is open court, and finishing and rebounding and defense. He should not be taking jumpers unless they are wide open.

Thats not a stat line from hell for a 19 yr old rookie playing in his 2nd preseason game. Its funny how you can determine what his game is and what he should or shouldn't do given he has only suited up twice in an nba uniform.

 

[kennadog]

Wins and losses aren't the issue here. To me, it's how you win and lose, especially now when we have very little talent. The Kings were not coherant, did not play defense, did not cover their men, did not care for rotations. They didn't talk. They got in each other's way. They made it easier for the opposing team to defend them. You don't see any of this in a box score.

Good lord you expect a lot in two pre-season games from a new coach, a very young team and half the roster has never played together.