[Game] Kings vs Rockets 1/13/2023 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern

Status
Not open for further replies.
#1
Note to mods (and @Tetsujin): Seeing that @Tetsujin is "The Game Thread Dude", I don't want to step over his authority and declare this the official thread for tomorrow's game. This distinction should, very rightfully, come from him. So, if you want this to be the official thread for tomorrow's game, then make whatever modifications/additions required in order to bring that to fruition. If you want to spin up a different thread, then I am perfectly fine with that as well...:):):)

Man, I am at a serious high after the win last night, and knowing, very well, that THIS team, OUR team, OUR Kings can very well be a top 4 (or even top 3) seed in the Western Conference by the end of the season. But, as I stated last night, let's not get too ahead of ourselves. We still have a lot of work to do.

Seeing that I live out in Vegas, and am doing my part in saving enough to eventually move out of Vegas, I don't have NBA league pass, or access to be able to watch any and all Kings games, so my observations come primarily from social media (Facebook), friends, ESPN.com, NBA.com and, of course, you fine Kings fans here on the forum.

I am not going to say much about tomorrow's game at this time, but I am gonna say this much...

Beam The Effing Light!!!

200w.gif

(More to come tomorrow :p:p:p)
 
#3
So that new bench rotation the last 2 games has been insanely good:

Fox-Monk-KZ-Lyles-Metu:
2 games
13 minutes:

122.6 ORtg
89.7 DRtg

+32.9 net

matches well with the eye test too. Def a unit that needs more work, especially if it can extend a little longer so we can start getting Domas around 34 MPG rather than the 38+ he's been playing
 
#5
Even if they're only good against the Orlandos and Houstons it's a big win.
Just looking at the LU data from the last few games, the bench units are why we won. The TD starting unit in 13 minutes was -26.1 net RTG. Monk with the starters was -9.2 net Rtg.

The early sub Davion with the starters unit seems to be very effective though. +46.7 Net Rtg in 10 minutes the last 2 games. And +12.3 Net Rtg in 121.1 minutes overall on the season. So while some of us complain about the early Fox hook, it's been a super effective move in terms of impact
 
#6
Just looking at the LU data from the last few games, the bench units are why we won. The TD starting unit in 13 minutes was -26.1 net RTG. Monk with the starters was -9.2 net Rtg.

The early sub Davion with the starters unit seems to be very effective though. +46.7 Net Rtg in 10 minutes the last 2 games. And +12.3 Net Rtg in 121.1 minutes overall on the season. So while some of us complain about the early Fox hook, it's been a super effective move in terms of impact
It's effectiveness has helped both the team AND Fox, really. He can be fresh at a critical time in the game. The only real risk is everyone else being off, and then you end up with a hole too big to crawl out of. I can see why Brown has to stagger Fox and Sabonis, but damn do we need someone reliable to be able to pick up the slack on their own. I like that any player could theoretically go for 30, but I'd rather not have to guess who it would be each game.
 
#7
How does Davion fit into all of this? Of course we love his defense, but at some point we need our back up PG to offer some offensive upside. He is playing like KZ on offense and I think he is better than that. I'm rooting for him to shake his shooting slump asap. He has been holding us back over the last month imo.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#8
How does Davion fit into all of this? Of course we love his defense, but at some point we need our back up PG to offer some offensive upside. He is playing like KZ on offense and I think he is better than that. I'm rooting for him to shake his shooting slump asap. He has been holding us back over the last month imo.
After the last few games the Kings are now leading the entire NBA in PPG and they've been in the top 5 in Offensive Rating most of the season (currently 3rd). I don't think Davion's lack of offensive output is hurting this team. When its time to make a decision on offering Monk a new contract or not, that's when we'll have to decide if Davion can carry more of the load on that end of the floor but for now he's the only guy in the regular rotation who we never have to worry about on defense and for a team which often struggles on that end of the floor, I think that makes him borderline untradeable.
 
#10
After the last few games the Kings are now leading the entire NBA in PPG and they've been in the top 5 in Offensive Rating most of the season (currently 3rd). I don't think Davion's lack of offensive output is hurting this team. When its time to make a decision on offering Monk a new contract or not, that's when we'll have to decide if Davion can carry more of the load on that end of the floor but for now he's the only guy in the regular rotation who we never have to worry about on defense and for a team which often struggles on that end of the floor, I think that makes him borderline untradeable.
Yeah I disagree. His lack of offensive production is making his defense even more integral. If he hit 38% from 3 and 42-45% from the field the other team would be taking the ball out of the net more when he is on the floor and negating a lot of the transition looks they are getting.

His lack of scoring is hurting us to the point where we have to play HARDER on defense to offset his lack of scoring, and scrambling to cover shooters and transition looks off of his long range misses.

If he made more shots, he could work smarter on defense, not harder.
 
#11
Yeah I disagree. His lack of offensive production is making his defense even more integral. If he hit 38% from 3 and 42-45% from the field the other team would be taking the ball out of the net more when he is on the floor and negating a lot of the transition looks they are getting.

His lack of scoring is hurting us to the point where we have to play HARDER on defense to offset his lack of scoring, and scrambling to cover shooters and transition looks off of his long range misses.

If he made more shots, he could work smarter on defense, not harder.
Hes only taking 5.5 shots a game and is shooting 45% from the field. He’s under 32% from 3 - which needs to improve.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#12
Yeah I disagree. His lack of offensive production is making his defense even more integral. If he hit 38% from 3 and 42-45% from the field the other team would be taking the ball out of the net more when he is on the floor and negating a lot of the transition looks they are getting.

His lack of scoring is hurting us to the point where we have to play HARDER on defense to offset his lack of scoring, and scrambling to cover shooters and transition looks off of his long range misses.

If he made more shots, he could work smarter on defense, not harder.
It's a forest for the trees issue for me. Would it be nice if Davion shot the ball better? Of course, no one would argue against that. However, the Kings have lost 18 games so far this season and in those losses they've given up an average of 120 points. That's not a "we're not scoring enough" problem creating pressure on the defense to meet an impossible standard, that's a "we're not defending enough" problem putting pressure on the offense to score even more. I'd love Davion to shoot the ball better but to single him out as the problem? I don't see that at all.
 
#13
After the last few games the Kings are now leading the entire NBA in PPG and they've been in the top 5 in Offensive Rating most of the season (currently 3rd). I don't think Davion's lack of offensive output is hurting this team. When its time to make a decision on offering Monk a new contract or not, that's when we'll have to decide if Davion can carry more of the load on that end of the floor but for now he's the only guy in the regular rotation who we never have to worry about on defense and for a team which often struggles on that end of the floor, I think that makes him borderline untradeable.
The lineup data shows the offense isn't struggling when he's on the floor. Mainly because he does get a lot overlap with Domas. If anything, it's showing we need to find ways to get him on the court more with Fox because his defense has been stupidly impactful all season. How many games has he iced out because of his ball-pressure on lead ball-handlers in crunch time?

On/Off splits with Davion

On floor: 751 minutes
Off floor: 1175 minutes

Offense:
On: 116.9
Off: 117.9
Net: -1

Defense:
On: 112..2 (Would be 12th in the NBA overall DRtg)
Off: 117.7 (Would be 28th in NBA overall DRtg)
Net: +5.5.

5.5 points better on defense from a guard is absolutely absurd impact.

And like you said, a team that's bad on defense trading one of the best defenders in NBA doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Especially when despite of his offensive struggles, your team is a top 5 offense in basketball. I think you continue to focus on his offensive development (only his 2nd year in the NBA) and bet that if he does become an average-ish offensive player that he's going to be an elite player overall because of how dominant his defense is.
 
Last edited:
#14
It's a forest for the trees issue for me. Would it be nice if Davion shot the ball better? Of course, no one would argue against that. However, the Kings have lost 18 games so far this season and in those losses they've given up an average of 120 points. That's not a "we're not scoring enough" problem creating pressure on the defense to meet an impossible standard, that's a "we're not defending enough" problem putting pressure on the offense to score even more. I'd love Davion to shoot the ball better but to single him out as the problem? I don't see that at all.
Oh by all means I'm not saying he is THE problem. But. If he is scoring at a better clip and shooting a better percentage when he is in, the other team doesn't have the same easy transition opportunities like they have. Which would allow him to play a different style of defense, as well as the rest of the team.

You can't argue that taking the ball out of the net versus getting a rebound and outlet are the same type of opportunity for the other team. If you score, your defense gets a chance to set. If you miss, especially a long shot, the defense is scrambling to get to spots, shooters, cutters etc.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#16
Oh by all means I'm not saying he is THE problem. But. If he is scoring at a better clip and shooting a better percentage when he is in, the other team doesn't have the same easy transition opportunities like they have. Which would allow him to play a different style of defense, as well as the rest of the team.

You can't argue that taking the ball out of the net versus getting a rebound and outlet are the same type of opportunity for the other team. If you score, your defense gets a chance to set. If you miss, especially a long shot, the defense is scrambling to get to spots, shooters, cutters etc.
Sure, but the post I was responding to initially was. I just don't agree that he's holding us back on any level. We're already scoring more than any other team. Not every player on the floor needs to be an offensive dynamo -- if anything we need more guys like KZ and Davion getting minutes.
 
#17
32%? That's not as bad as I thought.It feels a lot lower then that for some reason.
He's 36.8% in his last 10 games on 1.9 Att. Nothing earth-shattering, but it's at least a show of improvement. And really, he's just not looking for his offense this season:

Rookie season:
USG: 20.6%
AST: 22.5%
TS: 48.9%

This year:
USG: 14.5%
AST: 15.8%
TS: 53.3%

Which does make sense since he shares a lot of overlap with Domas or is on the floor with Monk or Fox. I don't ever recall seeing like a Davion-Huerter-Keegan-Barnes-Metu type of LU this year where he'd be asked to do be a more feature offensive player. The focus has clearly been to ramp up his defense and start to stand out as an elite player on that end.
 
#18
The lineup data shows the offense isn't struggling when he's on the floor. Mainly because he does get a lot overlap with Domas. If anything, it's showing we need to find ways to get him on the court more with Fox because his defense has been stupidly impactful all season. How many games has he iced out because of his ball-pressure on lead ball-handlers in crunch time?

On/Off splits with Davion

On floor: 751 minutes
Off floor: 1175 minutes

Offense:
On: 116.9
Off: 117.9
Net: -1

Defense:
On: 112..2 (Would be 12th in the NBA overall DRtg)
Off: 117.7 (Would be 28th in NBA overall DRtg)
Net: +5.5.

5.5 points better on defense with a guard is absolutely absurd impact.

And like you said, a team that's bad on defense trading one of the best defenders in NBA doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Especially when despite of his offensive struggles, your team is a top 5 offense in basketball. I think you continue to focus on his offensive development (only his 2nd year in the NBA) and bet that if he does become an average-ish offensive player that he's going to be an elite player overall because of how dominant his defense is.
Team is worse with him on the floor(very marginally).And considering how impactful and sometimes just plainly phenomenal he plays on D, that just shows how far behind his offense is lagging. Hopefully he does not become someone like Thybulle who's offensive game never improved to compliment his d and he eventually pretty much played himself out of the rotation.
 
#19
Team is worse with him on the floor(very marginally).And considering how impactful and sometimes just plainly phenomenal he plays on D, that just shows how far behind his offense is lagging. Hopefully he does not become someone like Thybulle who's offensive game never improved to compliment his d and he eventually pretty much played himself out of the rotation.
It's not though. 116.9 ORtg is still extremely good and I think that's a credit to Brown being able to hide him well and make sure he's playing with Sabonis/Fox/Monk, etc. +4.5 Net Rtg is excellent, especially for a guy coming off the bench
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#20
I haven't looked at the stats, but Davion's shot looks worse than last year. It looks robotic and it looks like he's thinking about it when he takes the shot. It must be extremely disappointing and frustrating for him as we all know he practiced in the off-season like a madman. But it sure makes me wonder about his shooting regiment and his shooting coach this past off-season. To my mind he made his shot worse, not better. He's got to find a coach that can unlock his brain from the mechanical robotic form to a more flowing rhythmic quick shot. Otherwise, his growth as an NBA player is going to be severely limited going forward.
 
#21
I haven't looked at the stats, but Davion's shot looks worse than last year. It looks robotic and it looks like he's thinking about it when he takes the shot. It must be extremely disappointing and frustrating for him as we all know he practiced in the off-season like a madman. But it sure makes me wonder about his shooting regiment and his shooting coach this past off-season. To my mind he made his shot worse, not better. He's got to find a coach that can unlock his brain from the mechanical robotic form to a more flowing rhythmic quick shot. Otherwise, his growth as an NBA player is going to be severely limited going forward.
I think Luke Loucks can take up some additional responsibility here. Fox is looking much better this season and I think Davion could use some help.
 
#24
Davion has a ton of 3 point shots that rim in and out. He's close to getting his shot dialed in. I can see an improvement to 35% next year if he keeps putting in the work. He's basically shooting the exact same percentage from 3 as Monk.

I think Brown needs to figure out a way to get Monk more spot up shots. He's shooting much less efficient from distance than he has the last couple years and it's most likely because he's taking a ton of shots off the dribble. It might benefit the bench to let someone else do a little creating for Monk instead of having him create for everyone else and himself most the time.
 
#25
Davion has a ton of 3 point shots that rim in and out. He's close to getting his shot dialed in. I can see an improvement to 35% next year if he keeps putting in the work. He's basically shooting the exact same percentage from 3 as Monk.

I think Brown needs to figure out a way to get Monk more spot up shots. He's shooting much less efficient from distance than he has the last couple years and it's most likely because he's taking a ton of shots off the dribble. It might benefit the bench to let someone else do a little creating for Monk instead of having him create for everyone else and himself most the time.
Yeah his off-ball shooting/scoring and how he played off LeBron/AD last year were a big reason I was excited we ended up signing him. It's been an awesome surprise to see how good his playmaking/creation has been, but we haven't really tapped his shooting ability as much as I thought we would.
 
#26
Yeah his off-ball shooting/scoring and how he played off LeBron/AD last year were a big reason I was excited we ended up signing him. It's been an awesome surprise to see how good his playmaking/creation has been, but we haven't really tapped his shooting ability as much as I thought we would.
Yeah I think there's a balance somewhere in there that needs to be found. Davion isn't the best playmaker but he's not a total dud at it either. There's gotta be a way to keep Monk's assist totals close to where they're currently at while simultaneously getting him more spot up jumpers to up his percentages. He's too talented to keep scoring 11 points on 13 shots every other game.
 
#29
Yeah I think there's a balance somewhere in there that needs to be found. Davion isn't the best playmaker but he's not a total dud at it either. There's gotta be a way to keep Monk's assist totals close to where they're currently at while simultaneously getting him more spot up jumpers to up his percentages. He's too talented to keep scoring 11 points on 13 shots every other game.
Agreed. It could just be a familiarity thing too with everyone still kind of feeling out their offensive roles, what lineup combos they're going to play with, etc. We're still just half a season into year 1 with Brown and a bunch of new feature offensive players/rotation. And we might have JUST finally found a bench rotation that actually works with the KZ-Lyles-Metu combo.

That's what's kind of crazy about how good we've been on offense to this point. Malik can absolutely shoot better, Keegan is a rookie going through ups and downs, Davion is a 2nd year player that hasn't been good at all on offense, Barnes forgot how to play basketball the first 8 games of the season. Despite all that, the team has firmly cemented itself as a top 5 offense this season. Really a great sign moving forward for the core.
 
#30
Agreed. It could just be a familiarity thing too with everyone still kind of feeling out their offensive roles, what lineup combos they're going to play with, etc. We're still just half a season into year 1 with Brown and a bunch of new feature offensive players/rotation. And we might have JUST finally found a bench rotation that actually works with the KZ-Lyles-Metu combo.

That's what's kind of crazy about how good we've been on offense to this point. Malik can absolutely shoot better, Keegan is a rookie going through ups and downs, Davion is a 2nd year player that hasn't been good at all on offense, Barnes forgot how to play basketball the first 8 games of the season. Despite all that, the team has firmly cemented itself as a top 5 offense this season. Really a great sign moving forward for the core.
Yep it helps when you have a center who has elite efficiency on good scoring numbers, can rebound with the best of them and can pass as well as an above average PG.

It's really the defense that needs to be addressed. We have the coach for it so if he can't get these guys to play good defense, then it's more than likely just an accumulation of poor defensive players. Then again, that accumulation of poor defensive players is also an accumulation of good offensive players so finding a balance is going to be on McNair's shoulders. Adding a player who defends a bit like KZ and just has an offensive game merely as effective as Lyles would probably do wonders with this team.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.