Kings - Jazz post game discussion

[Emma]

We may have posted a 2-5 record in the preseason, but while reading from the Bee I noticed a curious line of stats:

The Kings' opponents shot 43 percent overall and 36.2 percent from three-point range, compared with league worsts of 48.1 percent and 41 percent, respectively, last season.

Also, the Kings outrebounded their opponents in four of the seven games and won the overall boards battle 302-285 despite facing the Lakers, Portland (twice) and Utah.
​

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/story/2279612.html

​

This is very good news. I have to ask, do you believe that the Kings have actually improved through their rookie-centric rebuild? Is this sort of thing to be considered a fluke? Or is this a direct reflection of the talent of our new coaching staff? Overall I am very pleased with the results, whatever the source. I will be going to 5 games or so this year (last year I don't remember bothering), I'm particularly excited to get my hands on an Evans jersey.

 

[Bricklayer]

Had noticed that in the team preseason stats myself. The hesitation of course is that its still just preseason, and I'm not really sure how well preseson numbers track with regular seaosn performance. Was looking to see if a site had the cumulative preseason stats for previous seasons nicely laid out, but not surprisingly they do not. Would be interesting to see how our performance last preseason looked compared to the regular season etc.

Not being able to watch the preseason games this season has been odd. Been along time since we've ad to try to ferret out how the team looks from a series of boxscores. Gives you sympathy wiht the overseas fans that almost never get to see them play.

 

[fnordius]

I have to ask, do you believe that the Kings have actually improved through their rookie-centric rebuild? Is this sort of thing to be considered a fluke? Or is this a direct reflection of the talent of our new coaching staff?

I'm thinking that it's mostly coaching -- I've noticed some returning players positioning themselves and fighting for rebounds in ways they didn't used to -- with maybe a little boost coming from the personnel changes, too. Seen better D from most of our returning players, too. I hope it lasts.

 

[Oprostaj]

I'll agree to a point. I just don't happen to think guys need to hang out off the court to develop good court chemistry. Apples and oranges maybe?

Look, the bottom line is that in the limited athletic career i've had, you better believe that chemistry played a much, much bigger part than anybody outside of the team knew. My whole point was that Malone/Stockton had such a high level of ability that they did not need to be best buddies because of Stockton's vision and Malone's ability to execute an array of moves, including that sweet jumper.

My belief is that when you are not the biggest, fastest, smartest or have the most ability, you need that X-Factor. Maybe our players don't have to be best friends, but they do need to know each other's tendencies. Again... chemistry is such a huge part of a sport like basketball because you need 5 minds working as one. I just hated how that fact was dismissed, and again, I haven't seen any games, but the OPs description made my blood boil.

 

[VF21]

Look, the bottom line is that in the limited athletic career i've had, you better believe that chemistry played a much, much bigger part than anybody outside of the team knew. My whole point was that Malone/Stockton had such a high level of ability that they did not need to be best buddies because of Stockton's vision and Malone's ability to execute an array of moves, including that sweet jumper.

My belief is that when you are not the biggest, fastest, smartest or have the most ability, you need that X-Factor. Maybe our players don't have to be best friends, but they do need to know each other's tendencies. Again... chemistry is such a huge part of a sport like basketball because you need 5 minds working as one. I just hated how that fact was dismissed, and again, I haven't seen any games, but the OPs description made my blood boil.

The OP is mistaken. Period. If you watched the NBA-TV Sacramento Kings preview, you saw how Kev made it clear that he wanted Tyreke all along (which he did, even telling his family about him on draft day). There is NO truth to the assumption that there is anything but camraderie and possibly a burgeoning friendship between Evans and Martin.

That friendship and commitment to each other can be accomplished without sleepovers or family barbecues. THAT was my point. These guys have the same commitment. They want to be the best they can possibly be, they want to take the Kings back in the right direction and they want the fans along for the ride.

What I was dismissing, if you're referring to me, was more the observation of the OP, since I know for a fact it's untrue.

 

[fnordius]

Look, the bottom line is that in the limited athletic career i've had, you better believe that chemistry played a much, much bigger part than anybody outside of the team knew.

I think a lot of it probably comes down to professionalism. Malone and Stockton were very dissimilar as people, but worked very well together despite that, and have continued to act at least somewhat friendly towards each other since. Kobe + Shaq didn't work out so well, but professionalism isn't a universal trait among NBA players (as Artest occasionally reminded us).

I hope that our chemistry will be good, we could sure use it. If not, we may have to try to get by on professionalism.

 

[mac]

I think a lot of it probably comes down to professionalism. Malone and Stockton were very dissimilar as people, but worked very well together despite that, and have continued to act at least somewhat friendly towards each other since. Kobe + Shaq didn't work out so well, but professionalism isn't a universal trait among NBA players (as Artest constantly reminded us).

Fixed

 

[Bricklayer]

Actually since the OP was the guy actually in the arena, and we didn't even have TVs, his observation that Reke and Kevin never talked or came close to each other cannot really be disputed. He was there, we weren't. Unless he was lying, no reason to believe that wasn't the case.

Only question is whether that indicates nearly as much as the OP thinks it did. And that's where it may be a reach this early. The rest of us don't know much more than sound bites for the media, which of course are filled with all kinds of rehearsed "say the right thing" nonsense. But two guys not talking before 1 game, in the preseason, while one of them is even injured and not playing...trying to tease out a relationship with no more evidence than that is probably too much too soon. We don't even have a real feel for personalities yet -- Kevin certianly isn't gregarious, and Reke might just be a focused guy before games or whatever.

There certainly couldn't be a significant split between the two without it having nasty consequences for the Kings -- presumably it would have to come from rivalry over who is "the man" on the team, and we're nowhere near good enough to absorb one of those. But this is all vastly premature.

 

[VF21]

My comment was that his conclusion was erroneous and I stand by that comment. There isn't any kind of animosity or anything else between Kevin and Tyreke. And based on what I've heard from various sources there is every indication that the opposite is in fact true.

 

[6th]

I don't understand how anyone can possibly say that there was no contact between 2 players during the course of the game. I've been to many games, and I cannot possibly watch for interactions between players all the time. I'm there watching the basketball on the court with an occasional glance at the bench.

IMHO - this was blown out of proportion and has no basis in fact. Give it a rest. Don't start imagining problems where there are none. If we step back from the doom and gloom for just a minute, we might find ourselves enjoying a young, exciting basketball team.

 

[Kingster]

We may have posted a 2-5 record in the preseason, but while reading from the Bee I noticed a curious line of stats:

The Kings' opponents shot 43 percent overall and 36.2 percent from three-point range, compared with league worsts of 48.1 percent and 41 percent, respectively, last season.

Also, the Kings outrebounded their opponents in four of the seven games and won the overall boards battle 302-285 despite facing the Lakers, Portland (twice) and Utah. ​

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/story/2279612.html

​

This is very good news. I have to ask, do you believe that the Kings have actually improved through their rookie-centric rebuild? Is this sort of thing to be considered a fluke? Or is this a direct reflection of the talent of our new coaching staff? Overall I am very pleased with the results, whatever the source. I will be going to 5 games or so this year (last year I don't remember bothering), I'm particularly excited to get my hands on an Evans jersey.

I don't think it's a fluke. There is competition at the point guard and wing positions, which gives Westphal leverage in demanding players play D and rebound. Then you add the talent of Evans, a defensive and rebounding stud, along with Casspi and Brockman, and I think there is a legitimate expectation we should be better in those categories. Now, Westphal has to work on Hawes to be better in both defense and rebounding. Hawes is the key. If he can just hold his own in those areas, then this team improve quite a bit from last year imo

 

[USNAVY15]

I am just relaying what i saw. They had zero interaction, zero words exchanged. I am not saying that they are at odds, but it appeared that way to me. Evans is pretty good, and Martin probably understands that he needs Evans if he is going anywhere any time soon. But, if they have a working relationship, they could have fooled me. Evans just needs to cut down on his passing and worry about his shooting and his defense. Let the Benos and the Garcias and Rodrigezes pass, Tryreke needs to put on a show, and put up some numbers.

 

[VF21]

I am just relaying what i saw. They had zero interaction, zero words exchanged. I am not saying that they are at odds, but it appeared that way to me. Evans is pretty good, and Martin probably understands that he needs Evans if he is going anywhere any time soon. But, if they have a working relationship, they could have fooled me. Evans just needs to cut down on his passing and worry about his shooting and his defense. Let the Benos and the Garcias and Rodrigezes pass, Tryreke needs to put on a show, and put up some numbers.

I think they fooled you. Every indication I've heard - and I've heard from some pretty reliable sources that although I will not name here are known to others on the board - that Reke and Kev are doing just fine thank you. Martin not only understands that he needs Evans, he actually wanted him from day one and said so to several people on draft day. That's documented.

My only point in all this is that while you may have garnered a certain impression, it's not (unless a whole bunch of people are lying, which I do not believe) the right one.

Our young team is starting to jell and I just do not want misunderstandings like this to get a foothold.

Peace.

One more thing? Evans needs to cut down his passing? Oh, no... NO, no, no. He was brought on to be our point guard and he truly needs to hone those skills.

 

[gunks]

I don't think it's a fluke. There is competition at the point guard and wing positions, which gives Westphal leverage in demanding players play D and rebound. Then you add the talent of Evans, a defensive and rebounding stud, along with Casspi and Brockman, and I think there is a legitimate expectation we should be better in those categories. Now, Westphal has to work on Hawes to be better in both defense and rebounding. Hawes is the key. If he can just hold his own in those areas, then this team improve quite a bit from last year imo

We're getting those hussle stats out of the team now. Westphal MAY be our most legit coach since Rick. And the team has gone from a bunch of burned out and lazy vets to a group of young hungry players.

I dont think we're going to see that huge of an improvement in the W/L, but I dont think this team is going to be going out like chumps in the losses either.

 

[kennadog]

As Brick pointed out, Kevin isn't the most gregarious person. He's always been on the quiet side, although I think he has become a bit more outgoing and outspoken as he has matured.

From what I've seen of Tyreke, he's almost as quiet as church mouse. So soft spoken, you can hardly understand him in interviews. Our announcers have commented on the fact that he never shows any emotions on the floor. He can make a great play or a bad one and his face or demeanor doesn't change. I noticed that at the game I went to. I think that even-keel demeanor is a great asset. As in, "Never let them see you sweat."

Sionice Kevin lobbied so hard for the team to draft Evans and has been highly complimentary of Evans in interviews so far, I would suspect any rift or lack of signs of a developing friendship is far more imagined than reality-based.

 

[fnordius]

Westphal MAY be our most legit coach since Rick.

Why mince your words? He IS our most legit coach since Rick.

PW: 5x all-star, ring with Celtics, borderline HOF candidate
Theus: Played in the NBA, wasn't bad
Natt: Played in the NBA, was nothing special
Muss: Couldn't even get picked in the first 4 rounds of the CBA draft. How sad is that?

PW: 6 years prior NBA coaching experience, with 3 trips to playoffs and one to finals
Muss: 2 losing seasons with the Warriors, 75-89 record
Theus: No prior NBA coaching experience
Natt: Experience as an assistant only

That's not to say that we won't suck for the foreseeable future, or that PW is anything very special by NBA coaching standards, but he's clearly real & legit.

 

[bajaden]

There's no way to know if the stats are going to relate to the real season or not. But, if they hadn't improved in the preseason, I would be less optimistic about it happening during the regular season. As far as Evans and his passing are concerned, he needs to just keep doing what he's doing. He's going to make mistakes, but thats how you learn. His teammates also need to talk more. If you get picked from behind, shame on your teammates for not giving you a headsup. It also appears that at least half of his turnovers are unforced. Thats just lack of experience, and learning to adjust to the speed of the NBA game.

In the one game I was able to watch, I only remember one bad pass that ended up being a turnover. And that one was a Jon Barry pass. He left his feet with nowhere to go. He has a lot to work on, but all in all he's been as advertised. Actually, he's been better than as advertised. The biggest surprise to me hasn't been Evans, but Casspi. The dude is playing like he's been in the league for a couple of years. Lets hope that continues..

 

[kennadog]

Yeah, I think Evans will make some mistakes, but I think he will improve. My goodness, what he is capable of already at age 20! He has the attitude of a vet or at least someone older. I think most people will have to conciously remind themselves he's a rookie, he's only 20 and he only played one year of college ball.

I'm with you, Bajaden. Casspi has been a very nice surprise so far. He's playing much better than I expected. Hope he keeps it up, too.

 

[Prince_XY]

I am just relaying what i saw. They had zero interaction, zero words exchanged. I am not saying that they are at odds, but it appeared that way to me. Evans is pretty good, and Martin probably understands that he needs Evans if he is going anywhere any time soon. But, if they have a working relationship, they could have fooled me. Evans just needs to cut down on his passing and worry about his shooting and his defense. Let the Benos and the Garcias and Rodrigezes pass, Tryreke needs to put on a show, and put up some numbers.

It was an objective thing you post and I think you were right. I myself can imagine how Martin thinks and feels right now. Actually, a lot of us fans have had that fear, but we failed to talk about that future problem. We only know that if Evans fails as a point guard and turns out to be an All-Star caliber shooting guard, then Martin's days as a starter, or of wearing a Kings uniform might not be that long. In short, if some of us can see Evans as a threat to Martin, Martin surely sees that too. Sometimes, even at your highest professional behavior, those unconscious feelings manifest too.

It is a very hot seat where Martin is sitting right now, especially that Sergio Rodriguez seems like a very good point guard who can compliment the two-dimensional Evans in case the coaching staff decided Evans is a shooting guard. And I think Martin realizes what is going to happen. Choosing between a one-dimensional player VS a two-dimensional player who can be a go-to-guy in critical times of play is a no brainer.

Well, I hope this whole thing puts Martin into playing good defense in his games this season. I hope something positive comes up regarding this forseeable future problem.

And...maybe we could get a willing banger back-up Center for Hawes on the next draft too?

 

[Rookie]

Not everyone is that way. When we see competition, it gives us a reason to better ourself and improve.

And no, I don't see Evans as a threat for Martin. But that is my opinion, only Martin knows. But base on what he has shown, he isn't the selfish type.

 

[Kingster]

Not everyone is that way. When we see competition, it gives us a reason to better ourself and improve.

And no, I don't see Evans as a threat for Martin. But that is my opinion, only Martin knows. But base on what he has shown, he isn't the selfish type.

I don't see Evans as a threat for Martin either. Two entirely different and complementary players. Martin is good without the ball and not with the ball; Tyreke is good with the ball and not that good playing without the ball.

 

[Rockmeister]

I don't think that. I'm saying if Spencer spends no time in the post, and stays out high chucking 3's, then the coaches must be telling him to play out there. I can't see PW allowing him to even see the court if he were not playing exactly where he wants him to play. i.e. It is not all Spencer's fault where he plays, not if the coaches were telling him to play there.

If the coaches were telling him to post more, then I would expect we'd see him post more.

I read in the bee today that Spencer will be coming off the bench. The coach said something that he would like Spence to have more consistent rebounds, a willingness to have contact down low and more offense in the low post. It was also stated that Spencer's left ankle is still bothering him which could be why he hasn't rebounded very well and not posting down low more often.