[Game] Kings vs. Warriors, 10/24/21, 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern

[206Fan]

The Kings might have put too much pressure on Fox to score by starting a NEW lineup featuring Haliburton instead of Buddy Hield. I think Hield take the burden off of Fox. Haliburton doesn't look to shoot at all or hesitant to shoot and always looking to drive and diss and that's a problem. But at the same time, if you start Buddy, the team's defense drop off significantly because Buddy don't play D at all. So obviously the Kings have a dilemma. They might need to tingle with the lineup further. Maybe starting Fox and Mitchell is better? This allow Mitchell to offset the other team's best player at the start of the game and allow Haliburton to be where he used to be....coming off the bench. Maybe he's a better player coming off the bench.

I think the team starts out fine, it's just finishing the 4th quarter. I think we have to find a unit that can consistently close out the end of games.

I do like Haliburton better off the bench. He seems to be negated/ignored in the starting lineup. I think we've got to get him more engaged in the offense.

 

[ESP47]

Running an offense in the 4th instead of just having everyone go 1 on 1 would help too.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think the team starts out fine, it's just finishing the 4th quarter. I think we have to find a unit that can consistently close out the end of games.

I do like Haliburton better off the bench. He seems to be negated/ignored in the starting lineup. I think we've got to get him more engaged in the offense.

Eh, he's getting plenty of touches, he's just being unselfish to a fault looking to create. He passed on several open 3s again last night to drive the lane and kick back out.

 

[iowamcnabb]

On a lighter note when did Otto Porter turn into Lionel Richie?

 

[sactowndog]

Some overreaction with only 3 games on the books and a deadweight coach who’s offense has been complete garbage everywhere but that time he got to autopilot the historically good Warriors squad.

I would say the complaints on Fox’s tunnel vision, weak PG skills, and often suspect defense are valid, but I can’t help but wonder how many of these issues would be corrected with proper coaching, as opposed to whatever buddy buddy “leadership” and “teaching” our young star gets from Luke “I’m friends with Vlade” Walton.

Just to be fair. I’m not criticizing Fox as much as the fit with Mitchell. And I agree 3 games is too soon but it could be impacting others perception around the league. If Fox is struggling with a clogged lane might that also be true in Philly?

As for Luke, I don’t think he is a great coach but he is also being set up to fail running a 3 guard line-up with 2 guards who are not great outside shooters.

 

[Entity]

Running an offense in the 4th instead of just having everyone go 1 on 1 would help too.

this right here. the last 2 games when it gets to the last 7 min of the game our offense completely changes especially in the last 2-3.

 

[gunks]

Just to be fair. I’m not criticizing Fox as much as the fit with Mitchell. And I agree 3 games is too soon but it could be impacting others perception around the league. If Fox is struggling with a clogged lane might that also be true in Philly?

As for Luke, I don’t think he is a great coach but he is also being set up to fail running a 3 guard line-up with 2 guards who are not great outside shooters.

Mitchell seems solid from 3. Fox really needs to improve there though. He’s put together games where his outside shot is falling and it’s like watching a whole different player, he’s nearly unguardable when his shot is on.… which is unfortunately a rare occurrence.

 

[reptilexcq2]

Eh, he's getting plenty of touches, he's just being unselfish to a fault looking to create. He passed on several open 3s again last night to drive the lane and kick back out.

Right, Haliburton need to be hungry and shoot more instead of creating.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Mitchell seems solid from 3. Fox really needs to improve there though. He’s put together games where his outside shot is falling and it’s like watching a whole different player, he’s nearly unguardable when his shot is on.… which is unfortunately a rare occurrence.

If Lonzo Ball can become a good three pointer shooter then there's no excuse for Fox to not be able to.

 

[kb02]

Right, Haliburton need to be hungry and shoot more instead of creating.

Teams are running him off the line. Dubs announcers were celebrating each time they did it. Difference between Hali and Buddy is, when teams run at them, Hali can drive and create or drive and shoot a mid range. Buddy tends to dribble sideways and guns a three. Or commits a turnover while doing so.

 

[Tetsujin]

Kings are running him off the line. Dubs announcers were celebrating each time they did it. Difference between Hali and Buddy is, when teams run at them, Hali can drive and create or drive and shoot a mid range. Buddy tends to dribble sideways and guns a three. Or commits a turnover while doing so.

The main difference there is that Haliburton's unique shooting stroke has made him more hesitant to just take the three though. There have been times where Haliburton clearly has enough time to shoot the three before the defender closes out on him but he panics/overthinks it and passes out of the play/drives inside for a more difficult floater instead. It's been an issue through preseason and in these first three games. Teams have game tape on Haliburton now and aren't just going to give hi the 3.7 feet of separation he was getting last season for his threes.

 

[kb02]

The main difference there is that Haliburton's unique shooting stroke has made him more hesitant to just take the three though. There have been times where Haliburton clearly has enough time to shoot the three before the defender closes out on him but he panics/overthinks it and passes out of the play/drives inside for a more difficult floater instead. It's been an issue through preseason and in these first three games. Teams have game tape on Haliburton now and aren't just going to give hi the 3.7 feet of separation he was getting last season for his threes.

I don't understand your position. You want Hali to be a mindless gunner? Or do you want him to drive and create for others/shoot a better shot?

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't understand your position. You want Hali to be a mindless gunner? Or do you want him to drive and create for others/shoot a better shot?

I want him to take the easy shots that he's passing up right now.

We don't need him to drive. Him driving instead of shooting every chance he sees a defender within two yards of him is helping clog the paint for the people who actually need to be in there.

 

[kb02]

I want him to take the easy shots that he's passing up right now.

We don't need him to drive. Him driving instead of shooting every chance he sees a defender within two yards of him is helping clog the paint for the people who actually need to be in there.

There are likely metrics that show the end of play percentages. Hali has been a net positive the last two games. So we disagree. I think he's connecting and playing within the flow of the game. I don't want him to be a gunner, abuse teams in other ways.

 

[The_Jamal]

I don't understand your position. You want Hali to be a mindless gunner? Or do you want him to drive and create for others/shoot a better shot?

Hello Mr. Strawman!

That's not what he said. But while Hali's creation has been excellent, it loses value if teams know he's always looking to pass rather than his own shot. And he's one of the best, if not the best shooter on the team, so yes, I want him shooting when he has a good look. It's very likely going to be a high % shot.

 

[kb02]

Hello Mr. Strawman!

That's not what he said. But while Hali's creation has been excellent, it loses value if teams know he's always looking to pass rather than his own shot. And he's one of the best, if not the best shooter on the team, so yes, I want him shooting when he has a good look. It's very likely going to be a high % shot.

He has game speed. He knows when a shot is going to be makeable and when he's gunning. I'd rather he make the right play.

 

[Tetsujin]

Hello Mr. Strawman!

That's not what he said. But while Hali's creation has been excellent, it loses value if teams know he's always looking to pass rather than his own shot. And he's one of the best, if not the best shooter on the team, so yes, I want him shooting when he has a good look. It's very likely going to be a high % shot.

And, keeping in mind the incredibly small sample size of games this season, we have seen a marked shift in Haliburton's shot distribution to start the year. Last year, .478 of his shots were threes while this season it's dropped to .346 with his midrange shot attempts (3-10 feet) jumping up to .231 from .170. (He's also taking fewer shots at the rim.) I don't care if he's being run off the line more or whatever, taking more middies instead of threes as a shooter isn't conducive to success in this modern league.

 

[Tetsujin]

He has game speed. He knows when a shot is going to be makeable and when he's gunning. I'd rather he make the right play.

The thing that we're getting at is the right play isn't necessarily passing the ball the first chance he gets but just taking the damn shot.

 

[Entity]

is the Harkless test over yet?

 

[kb02]

And, keeping in mind the incredibly small sample size of games this season, we have seen a marked shift in Haliburton's shot distribution to start the year. Last year, .478 of his shots were threes while this season it's dropped to .346 with his midrange shot attempts (3-10 feet) jumping up to .231 from .170. (He's also taking fewer shots at the rim.) I don't care if he's being run off the line more or whatever, taking more middies instead of threes as a shooter isn't conducive to success in this modern league.

Only way to keep teams from running at him is to kill them with efficiency on that midrange and creating for others.

And to be clear, I think there's only been one shot where he's passed up without anyone closing. Mitchell has passed up a few, most notably in game #2. Fox, Davis, and Buddy have been hunting for theirs.

 

[kb02]

The thing that we're getting at is the right play isn't necessarily passing the ball the first chance he gets but just taking the damn shot.

Sorry, I just don't agree with you. Efficiency is what matters. The Kings, as a team, needs more efficiency. Not less.

 

[Tetsujin]

Sorry, I just don't agree with you. Efficiency is what matters. The Kings, as a team, needs more efficiency. Not less.

Tyrese has a sub-.500 TS% so he's not exactly been efficient either.

 

[kb02]

Tyrese has a sub-.500 TS% so he's not exactly been efficient either.

Imagine what it would be if he's gunning contested threes.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

There are likely metrics that show the end of play percentages. Hali has been a net positive the last two games. So we disagree. I think he's connecting and playing within the flow of the game. I don't want him to be a gunner, abuse teams in other ways.

It's a small sample size, but things clearly aren't going so well for Haliburton this year as they did last year. You essentially seem to be arguing that his dropoff in scoring is offset by his increase in "making the right play", which presumably can be measured by assists.

It's pretty easy to go and calculate how many point Hali is contributing per minute by taking Points + Points Generated By Assists. Last year, Hali was contributing about 0.844 points per minute on that basis. This year so far he is down to 0.742 points per minute, more than a 10% dropoff.

So it doesn't really look like not taking the shot is turning out better overall. His 3PT% has plummeted this year (again, small, small sample size) from .409 to .222. I think we can all be confident he's not a .222 shooter, and that's going to go up. Which I think points me to same conclusion that Tetsujin is coming up with - when he's open, he should take the damn shot. It will start to fall. Right now he's passing up too many shots that ARE open, Walton needs to tell him straight up that he's a shooter so he can get his head back in the game.

 

[Tetsujin]

Imagine what it would be if he's gunning contested threes.

Gunning contested threes has Buddy at .550 so possibly better than it is now?

 

[Entity]

our biggest issue is we are taking alot of 3's and not making them Davis 14% Fox 15% Mitchell 21% Haliburton 22%

 

[Entity]

Buddy 37%

 

[Tetsujin]

Buddy 37%

37% at the volume Buddy shoots is still really good.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1452739981156433924

https://twitter.com/statuses/1452755382779068416

 

[kb02]

It's a small sample size, but things clearly aren't going so well for Haliburton this year as they did last year. You essentially seem to be arguing that his dropoff in scoring is offset by his increase in "making the right play", which presumably can be measured by assists.

It's pretty easy to go and calculate how many point Hali is contributing per minute by taking Points + Points Generated By Assists. Last year, Hali was contributing about 0.844 points per minute on that basis. This year so far he is down to 0.742 points per minute, more than a 10% dropoff.

So it doesn't really look like not taking the shot is turning out better overall. His 3PT% has plummeted this year (again, small, small sample size) from .409 to .222. I think we can all be confident he's not a .222 shooter, and that's going to go up. Which I think points me to same conclusion that Tetsujin is coming up with - when he's open, he should take the damn shot. It will start to fall. Right now he's passing up too many shots that ARE open, Walton needs to tell him straight up that he's a shooter so he can get his head back in the game.

Your formula omits his hockey assists. There were a number of plays last night where Hali got ran off the line, he passes the ball to Buddy/Davis/Mitchell/Barnes then it swings to Fox/Barnes/Harkless for a three or two point attempt.