Keith Smart Still Tinkering with Starting Lineup- Link!

[gunks]

Smart makes me sad.

Its a damn shame when all the members of an internet message board agree unanimously (just think about that for a second) on a blatantly obvious lineup...But our coach is still dicking around with Reke at the 3, and who knows what other nonsense.

Its only a matter of time before we see a IT/Brooks starting backcourt.

 

[pshn80]

My first game at Arco this season is tomorrow night. As for the starting lineup Smart can start anyone he wants EXCEPT he has to start Evans at SG.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Robinson, Johnson, Brooks. Also rookie SG Evans. Great potential out there but you really have to go on faith, only Thompson and Cousins have significant experience at their positions.

 

[jcwkings]

For what its worth, i tried playing with a lineup of IT, Evans, JJ, JT, Cousins on 2k13 and the lack of outside shooting made it tough to do anything, spacing was a big issue. While obviously it is a video game, it is a legit issue with that lineup. It doesn't really make sense to have our 3 best outside shooters (Brooks, Jimmer, Thornton) all come off the bench, possibly playing with each other. If Tyreke is starting at the 2 we need two shooters next to him to provide spacing for his drives and Cousins drives as well. This roster just has issues, we have talented players but IT, Tyreke, Jimmer, Thornton, Brooks, Salmons are all better shooters off the dribble than spotting up. Brooks and Thornton and possibly Jimmer this season i believe would be our best bets as spot up shooters this year.

Thats what was so great about the early 2000's Kings. You had your superstar Chris Webber who could score in a variety of ways and pass as good as any big man ever could, Vlade was the point center, Peja was a spot up shooter that was clinical off the ball, Bibby was a great spot up shooter, Christie became a very reliable spot up shooter, Hedo was a hybrid of Peja and Christie, and Bobby J came in and reaked havoc on second units.

Its team building 101, you have Cousins and Tyreke as your center pieces. You look at their strenghts and surround them with complementary talent. Tyreke cant shoot but he can get to the rim and is a willing passer and has a great handle. Logic says you surround him with guys that will spread the floor, work better without the ball and can spot up for long range shots. Cousins likes to work from outside in with midrange jumpers and drives, so you get shooters and a complementary big man that will mop up his misses( Petrie has done good with JT, Robinson, Hayes).

 

[Chupacabra]

For what its worth, i tried playing with a lineup of IT, Evans, JJ, JT, Cousins on 2k13 and the lack of outside shooting made it tough to do anything, spacing was a big issue. While obviously it is a video game, it is a legit issue with that lineup. It doesn't really make sense to have our 3 best outside shooters (Brooks, Jimmer, Thornton) all come off the bench, possibly playing with each other. If Tyreke is starting at the 2 we need two shooters next to him to provide spacing for his drives and Cousins drives as well. This roster just has issues, we have talented players but IT, Tyreke, Jimmer, Thornton, Brooks, Salmons are all better shooters off the dribble than spotting up. Brooks and Thornton and possibly Jimmer this season i believe would be our best bets as spot up shooters this year.

Thats what was so great about the early 2000's Kings. You had your superstar Chris Webber who could score in a variety of ways and pass as good as any big man ever could, Vlade was the point center, Peja was a spot up shooter that was clinical off the ball, Bibby was a great spot up shooter, Christie became a very reliable spot up shooter, Hedo was a hybrid of Peja and Christie, and Bobby J came in and reaked havoc on second units.

Its team building 101, you have Cousins and Tyreke as your center pieces. You look at their strenghts and surround them with complementary talent. Tyreke cant shoot but he can get to the rim and is a willing passer and has a great handle. Logic says you surround him with guys that will spread the floor, work better without the ball and can spot up for long range shots. Cousins likes to work from outside in with midrange jumpers and drives, so you get shooters and a complementary big man that will mop up his misses( Petrie has done good with JT, Robinson, Hayes).

All of the issues that youve addressed have to do with offense. This team hasnt had a problem with scoring the ball for some time now. Its the Kings defense that has consistently ranked near the bottom. The lineup of IT/Evans/JJ/JT/Cousins seems like the best defensive unit. When scoring becomes a problem worry about offense. Right now the problem that needs to be addressed is defense.

 

[Npliam]

All of the issues that youve addressed have to do with offense. This team hasnt had a problem with scoring the ball for some time now. Its the Kings defense that has consistently ranked near the bottom. The lineup of IT/Evans/JJ/JT/Cousins seems like the best defensive unit. When scoring becomes a problem worry about offense. Right now the problem that needs to be addressed is defense.

I would say that both are a problem. Offensive efficiency is what makes for good offensive teams. The Kings score a lot of points but they don't do it very efficiently. They also play pretty bad team defense.

 

[Chupacabra]

I would say that both are a problem. Offensive efficiency is what makes for good offensive teams. The Kings score a lot of points but they don't do it very efficiently. They also play pretty bad team defense.

Whether its efficient or not its the end result thats most important. Putting alot of points on the board is more important than how those points were put on the board. Defense has been a shameful weakness of this team for about 8 years or so. It makes more sense to give the priority to fixing the defensive problem before you try to tinker with the offensive efficiency of a team that scores alot of points. So then, it would make better sense for the Kings to start a defensive player instead of an offensive player.

 

[Npliam]

Whether its efficient or not its the end result thats most important. Putting alot of points on the board is more important than how those points were put on the board. Defense has been a shameful weakness of this team for about 8 years or so. It makes more sense to give the priority to fixing the defensive problem before you try to tinker with the offensive efficiency of a team that scores alot of points. So then, it would make better sense for the Kings to start a defensive player instead of an offensive player.

The bolded part simply isn't true at all. It matter how many possessions it take to score. If you play at a fast pace you will have a lot of chances to score but so will the other team. I agree that the Kings team defense is terrible but their offense is still pretty ineffective.

 

[bajaden]

Reke has the skills of a guard. Whether a 1, a 2 or both, that's what he is. What he does not have any way you slice it is SF skills. Neither does Klay, hence my example.

Actually, given Klay's slightly taller than Reke, and has the outside shooting, while Reke is much more of a playmaker, it could easily argued if you were going to play either at SF it would be Klay, yet Jackson won't play him there and was hot after Barnes pre-draft, while Smart will happily play Reke at SF.

Hopefully JJ ends up there, but at this point I'm going on what SMart has done, not what I hope he'll change.

Gonna disagree with you a little bit on this one. I agree with you on Tyreke. There's no way he should be playing at the SF position. Oh I can see using him there on occasion with the right matchup, but certainly not as a starter or on a regular basis. However, Klay Thompson is almost 2 inches taller than Tyreke, and he played SF almost all of his basketball career until he was moved to SG last season. He played SF at Wash St. However with his ballhandling skills and outside shooting skills, he's able to adapt to the SG position.

 

[bajaden]

I would say that both are a problem. Offensive efficiency is what makes for good offensive teams. The Kings score a lot of points but they don't do it very efficiently. They also play pretty bad team defense.

I really hate to get into these type of discussions in preseason. Smart is installing a new offense, so there's no way to tell yet just how effective it will be. But to some extent, in order to play anything resembling a princeton offense, which the triangle does, you need certain types of players on the floor. They have to be able to pass effectively, and they have to be able to hit the open shot. Which is why the starting lineup of Bibby, Vlade, Webber, Christie, and Peja was so effective. I remember times when the Kings inbounded the ball and between the time it was inbounded and a basket was scored, the ball never touched the floor.

Now thats what I call beautiful basketball, but not every player is capable of playing in that offense. At least not effectively. So in Smarts case, some of what he's doing is probably finding out which players best suit that type of offense and which don't. So I'm going to wait and see what the results are when the season starts, and not have daily kneejerk reactions to whats going on in every preseason game. Basketball is a results oriented game. I only care about wins.

On the defensive side, which in many ways is more important than the offense right now, you have the problem of, the best players on offense, may not be the best players on defense. So do you constantly sub players for one another as the situation calls for it, or do you try and find a balance between the two? Probably the latter, for the sake of consistency. My overall point is, Smart is going to put a lot of different lineups on the floor. And those lineups may in the end lend themselves to who starts and who doesn't, but those lineups individually may not be the starting lineup when the season starts. Right now I'm more concerned about the individual play of certain players than I'am who or who isn't starting a preseason game.

 

[King Baller]

I really hate to get into these type of discussions in preseason. Smart is installing a new offense, so there's no way to tell yet just how effective it will be. But to some extent, in order to play anything resembling a princeton offense, which the triangle does, you need certain types of players on the floor. They have to be able to pass effectively, and they have to be able to hit the open shot. Which is why the starting lineup of Bibby, Vlade, Webber, Christie, and Bibby was so effective. I remember times when the Kings inbounded the ball and between the time it was inbounded and a basket was scored, the ball never touched the floor.

Now thats what I call beautiful basketball, but not every player is capable of playing in that offense. At least not effectively. So in Smarts case, some of what he's doing is probably finding out which players best suit that type of offense and which don't. So I'm going to wait and see what the results are when the season starts, and not have daily kneejerk reactions to whats going on in every preseason game. Basketball is a results oriented game. I only care about wins.

On the defensive side, which in many ways is more important than the offense right now, you have the problem of, the best players on offense, may not be the best players on defense. So do you constantly sub players for one another as the situation calls for it, or do you try and find a balance between the two? Probably the latter, for the sake of consistency. My overall point is, Smart is going to put a lot of different lineups on the floor. And those lineups may in the end lend themselves to who starts and who doesn't, but those lineups individually may not be the starting lineup when the season starts. Right now I'm more concerned about the individual play of certain players than I'am who or who isn't starting a preseason game.

Before the comedians come along let me just say one of those Bibbys was a Peja

KB

 

[bajaden]

Before the comedians come along let me just say one of those Bibbys was a Peja

KB

Thanks, all fixed! Sometimes the hands get ahead of the brain. Or is it vice/versa? Or, lack thereof?

 

[slingshot]

How about having a starting 5 of:
PG- Tyreke Evans
SG -Marcus Thornton
SF- Thomas Robinson
PF-Jason Thompson
C- DeMarcus Cousins

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

With reports of a new starting lineup for tonights game, the optimist in me is saying 'Well, if Smart is going to bench Thornton then this is the best way to do it'. Go about it slow. Give him the first start. Say you're experimenting with different lineups, hope the new lineup looks great, then sit down with Thornton and explain it to him.

 

[upinsmoke]

There are still so many questions about this lineup its hard to pinpoint what will work and what won't but my best guess is that we could see something to this effect early.

1.Brooks/IT/Jimmer
2.Evans/MT/Garcia
3.JJ/Salmons/Honeycutt
4.JT/Robinson
5.Cuz/Hayes

Now needless to say there are some glaring weaknesses there. "WT#" being the first thing that comes to mind looking at our backcourt. Some kind of shake up is needed there one way or another, simply search the personal forum for more info there. Personally I like the JJ trade he could fit the need very nicely. Now for the frontcourt JT may come off the bench eventually but even with that said another quality big is in order and one of our better players will most likely be traded to fill that need.

Good to see you all again finally TDOS is gone and were back ready to go to work!

 

[HereWeBoogie]

With reports of a new starting lineup for tonights game

any word on the actual lineup or just that its gonna be different?

 

[bajaden]

any word on the actual lineup or just that its gonna be different?

No official word. Smart has said he's likely to have a different starting lineup for most of the games in order to see which one works best, whatever that means, since that can change with the situation. In the end, I hope he settles on one starting lineup and sticks with it. I'll cut him some slack till the start of the season. After that, I expect results. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how to tie a hangman's noose....

 

[King Baller]

There are still so many questions about this lineup its hard to pinpoint what will work and what won't but my best guess is that we could see something to this effect early.

1.Brooks/IT/Jimmer
2.Evans/MT/Garcia
3.JJ/Salmons/Honeycutt
4.JT/Robinson
5.Cuz/Hayes

Now needless to say there are some glaring weaknesses there. "WT#" being the first thing that comes to mind looking at our backcourt. Some kind of shake up is needed there one way or another, simply search the personal forum for more info there. Personally I like the JJ trade he could fit the need very nicely. Now for the frontcourt JT may come off the bench eventually but even with that said another quality big is in order and one of our better players will most likely be traded to fill that need.

Good to see you all again finally TDOS is gone and were back ready to go to work!

I'm hoping that is the line up and it works so well Smart has no choice but to go with it. Actually I'm good with that lineup 2 through 5. If IT or Jimmer fit better with the crew of Tyreke, JJ, JT and DMC then so be it. But those 4 in the starting lineup are critical to defend the teams the Kings will face and not start games in a hole.

KB

 

[PurpleHaze]

Smart not done tinkering up to trick or treat time...



October 24, 2012

Keith Smart calls audible on starting lineup plan



After today's practice Kings coach Keith Smart said the starting lineup for tomorrow's preseason game against the Los Angeles Lakers in San Diego would not necessarily be the starting lineup for the season opener on Halloween in Chicago.

"Take with a grain of salt what I say right after a game," Smart said. "Because that was in the moment and the question was asked then. And we have five days before we have to make a decision to get ready for Chicago. We just want to make sure the guys that are playing do the right thing every single time they are on the floor."

So the starting five tomorrow might or might not be the starting five for the Bulls.

One thing Smart is certain he wants is more diversity on the floor at one time.

"I don't want to have this year too many guys that can score on the floor at the same time," Smart said. "Granted I'm going to need it at times but I don't want to have it too much. I wan to have the role guys in the lineup at any given time to be able to defend certain spots at certain times of the game."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/king...le-on-starting-lineup-plan.html#storylink=cpy

 

[SacTownKid]

Smart not done tinkering up to trick or treat time...



October 24, 2012

Keith Smart calls audible on starting lineup plan



After today's practice Kings coach Keith Smart said the starting lineup for tomorrow's preseason game against the Los Angeles Lakers in San Diego would not necessarily be the starting lineup for the season opener on Halloween in Chicago.

"Take with a grain of salt what I say right after a game," Smart said. "Because that was in the moment and the question was asked then. And we have five days before we have to make a decision to get ready for Chicago. We just want to make sure the guys that are playing do the right thing every single time they are on the floor."

So the starting five tomorrow might or might not be the starting five for the Bulls.

One thing Smart is certain he wants is more diversity on the floor at one time.

"I don't want to have this year too many guys that can score on the floor at the same time," Smart said. "Granted I'm going to need it at times but I don't want to have it too much. I wan to have the role guys in the lineup at any given time to be able to defend certain spots at certain times of the game."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/king...le-on-starting-lineup-plan.html#storylink=cpy

Should be interesting to see how he copes with having a team 90% made up of isolation scorers then. I hate it, but I totally expect the same thing as last year where you see a lineup for 3 games, then another one for 2, and so on and so on. Having rotating lineups just doesn't work in the NBA. It can for stretches but not the long haul. Consistent 8-9 man rotations built around your 2 or 3 best players it what works.

 

[Arkitect]

Should be interesting to see how he copes with having a team 90% made up of isolation scorers then. I hate it, but I totally expect the same thing as last year where you see a lineup for 3 games, then another one for 2, and so on and so on. Having rotating lineups just doesn't work in the NBA. It can for stretches but not the long haul. Consistent 8-9 man rotations built around your 2 or 3 best players it what works.

I think part of the problem is that 2 out of our 3 best players play the same exact position. However, it is his job to try to win basketball games and figure this stuff out. Of course for most coaches in the NBA that means setting a starting lineup that fits together and sticking with it regardless of the matchups, having a consistent rotation pattern, and distributing minutes in a logical fashion. For Smart, he is better than that and it is all about being afraid to commit to something because one of his players might not like it. Or something. I really do not understand how he thinks.

 

[Spike]

“Take with a grain of salt what I say right after a game,” Smart said.

Not sure how I feel about that, unless I also need to take this statement with a grain of salt...

 

[rainmaker]

Not sure how I feel about that, unless I also need to take this statement with a grain of salt...

To me it seems he's scared to ruffle feathers. If he has an idea in his mind who the starting 5 should be, then why the hell would not put that 5 out there for the final pre season game? Or does he not know, after almost a full training camp, which would be worse. I assumed the final two pres season games would be our starting 5, and let them build a little chemistry before opening night. Would he prefer opening night be the first night the starting 5 has played together? That would make little sense.

Starting 5 and reg season rotations should be finalized before tomorrow. If he doesn't know the starting 5, he sure doesn't know his rotations. Young teams need stability, not mixing and matching on a whim.

 

[Section 101]

To me it seems he's scared to ruffle feathers. If he has an idea in his mind who the starting 5 should be, then why the hell would not put that 5 out there for the final pre season game? Or does he not know, after almost a full training camp, which would be worse. I assumed the final two pres season games would be our starting 5, and let them build a little chemistry before opening night. Would he prefer opening night be the first night the starting 5 has played together? That would make little sense.

Starting 5 and reg season rotations should be finalized before tomorrow. If he doesn't know the starting 5, he sure doesn't know his rotations. Young teams need stability, not mixing and matching on a whim.

You should be happy. He said he didn't like what happened with the Suns game. That was Cuz, JT, Evans, MT and Brooks starting. Greater chance Evans isnt the starting SF.

 

[sdballer]

You should be happy. He said he didn't like what happened with the Suns game. That was Cuz, JT, Evans, MT and Brooks starting. Greater chance Evans isnt the starting SF.

Nothing about the fact that the continued bone-headed decisions smart makes are apparently not to his liking makes me happy. He managed that game like a drunk dude and rather than realizing the problem was a lack of structure and consistency, his solution is to continue the merry-go-round

 

[pshn80]

I agree Smart should take a stand. But to pick starters is it Thomas or Brooks, is it Evans or Thornton, is it Johnson or Outlaw, is it Thompson or Robinson? I'd start Cousins.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Consider this.

Kings possible lineup:

6'11" 270lb DeMarcus Cousins
6'11" 250lb Jason Thompson
6'9" 248lb James Johnson
6'5" 222lb Tyreke Evans
5'9" 185lb Isaiah Thomas

other than IT, who is tough but tiny, that is a BIG team. And big wiht guys who all use their size too. no 6'9" jumpshooting weenies. Big young athletic guys who attack your interior, reboudn their position etc.

Match that up with various top teams:
Lakers
6'11" 265lb Howard
7'0" 250lb Gasol
6'7" 260lb Artest
6'6" 205lb Bryant
6'3" 178lb Nash

or

6'10" 260lb Perkins
6'10" 245lb Ibaka
6'10" 235lb Durant
6'7" 215lb Sefalosha
6'3" 187lb Westbrook

etc. And we are right there. And obviously that does not mean we are as good as those teams. You don't win by matching height+weight. But it does mean that we can easily, naturally, if we just quit screwing around, field a fullsized team that can matchup with anybody on an equal footing. No excuses, no gimmicks, no smallball, no mismatch problems except occasionally at the PG. And they are all our best players at those positions, and that lineup leaves us with plenty of firepower off the bench.

Let's throw out our best fullsized lineup, and let's go to war and see what happens.

P.S. as usual I am like totally totally shocked the top teams are big physically. Really.

Yea that's a big lineup... It's also a lineup that can't shoot a lick from deep aside from IT who will be doing most of the ball handling. A lack of shooters means more of Demarcus spotting up from outside to compensate. If you look at both of the teams you posted they both have 3 men a piece who can hit the 3 ball... Which is part of the reason their big men have so much success. Even Orlando knew this when they had Dwight. With the lineup you want we will see defenses stacking the paint just like before. If Evans is on the floor we need at least two other players who can be respected from outside or most of the advantages that he and cousins bring will be useless.

 

[sdballer]

Yea that's a big lineup... It's also a lineup that can't shoot a lick from deep aside from IT who will be doing most of the ball handling. A lack of shooters means more of Demarcus spotting up from outside to compensate. If you look at both of the teams you posted they both have 3 men a piece who can hit the 3 ball... Which is part of the reason their big men have so much success. Even Orlando knew this when they had Dwight. With the lineup you want we will see defenses stacking the paint just like before. If Evans is on the floor we need at least two other players who can be respected from outside or most of the advantages that he and cousins bring will be useless.

Lakers starters 3's/game
Howard 0.0
Gasol 0.1
Artest 0.9
Bryant 1.5
Nash 0.9
Total: 3.4



Thunder
Perkins 0.0
Ibaka 0.0
Durant 2.0
Sefolosha 0.7
Westbrook 0.9
Total: 3.6


Kings
Cousins 0.0
Thompson 0.0
Johnson 0.3
Evans 0.3
Thomas 1.3
Total: 1.9

I think its a legit concern as you'd love to open up the middle more for Evans/Cousins. We have more outside firepower that we can bring off the bench but unfortunately the team is poorly constructed. That's why I'm personally a believer in trying the Evans/MT/Johnson/Thompson/Cousins at least for a little while as it seems to give us our best combo of size, shooting, rebounding, interior play and penetration with a good blend of firepower and energy off the bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

Lakers starters 3's/game
Howard 0.0
Gasol 0.1
Artest 0.9
Bryant 1.5
Nash 0.9
Total: 3.4



Thunder
Perkins 0.0
Ibaka 0.0
Durant 2.0
Sefolosha 0.7
Westbrook 0.9
Total: 3.6


Kings
Cousins 0.0
Thompson 0.0
Johnson 0.3
Evans 0.3
Thomas 1.3
Total: 1.9

I think its a legit concern as you'd love to open up the middle more for Evans/Cousins. We have more outside firepower that we can bring off the bench but unfortunately the team is poorly constructed. That's why I'm personally a believer in trying the Evans/MT/Johnson/Thompson/Cousins at least for a little while as it seems to give us our best combo of size, shooting, rebounding, interior play and penetration with a good blend of firepower and energy off the bench.

One of the reasons I ahve since swapped my PG choice to Brooks. Last time he was a starter for someone he was hitting 2.5 a game by himself...and notably as the PG alongside the last great center not named Dwight.

 

[Bricklayer]

"I don't want to have this year too many guys that can score on the floor at the same time," Smart said. "Granted I'm going to need it at times but I don't want to have it too much. I wan to have the role guys in the lineup at any given time to be able to defend certain spots at certain times of the game."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/king...le-on-starting-lineup-plan.html#storylink=cpy

Now Smart likes to hear himself talk. He's good at it. And so we have all been learning not to listen to his words but rather his actions. But the words above in that paragraph are exactly what you would want to hear from him. If they mean anything.

 

[Kings Faithful]

One of the reasons I ahve since swapped my PG choice to Brooks. Last time he was a starter for someone he was hitting 2.5 a game by himself...and notably as the PG alongside the last great center not named Dwight.

Exactly what I was thinking. Brooks and Evans have to be a pair in my mind. Their strengths mesh well. Same goes with IT and Thornton. The only problem I have is putting a player who has under performed in Tyreke, his fault or not, and a new signing who's played little so far in the starting lineup over two guys who i think I have earned the spots. Someones going to have to set there egos aside for this to work.