Griffin or Rubio????
- Thread starter CruzDude
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Griffin is the #1, but I would rather have Rubio.. Best case scenario is the Kings #1, and Oklahoma #2. We draft Griffin and trade him to OK, for their #2, and either a player or a 1st round pick.
Of course we cannot make OK think that we couldn't use a player like Griffin
But Griffin for Rubio, and Green would kick some butt. And I am sure OK would do it in a heartbeat because they would make a ton of money with Griffin in OK.
Of course we cannot make OK think that we couldn't use a player like Griffin
But Griffin for Rubio, and Green would kick some butt. And I am sure OK would do it in a heartbeat because they would make a ton of money with Griffin in OK.
Hawks already had Josh smith, but they still pick Shelden Williams, this is also an example can prove they made a wrong decision not to pick Brandon Roy. Now we have a chance to choose a talented PG, why not get a talented PG to play with a talented PF.
It is not too hard to understand why so many persons will be rather to choose Rubio.
It is not too hard to understand why so many persons will be rather to choose Rubio.
At what point did it become a matter of follow the leader? Everyone thinks Blake Griffin should go number 1 so we have to draft him number 1? A lot of people on this site have been following Blake Griffin closely all season. Not all of them think Blake Griffin is the best player in the draft. But because ESPN says he is that makes it so? I don't think anyone had Brandon Roy picked to go first in the 2006 draft and he's far and away the best player from that draft. Minnesota even picked him and traded him. Just because it's the "consensus" doesn't mean it's right.
Dude, that's a bad example. The Hawks picked Shelden because they thought he could play C and fills a need. They passed on Roy because they already had Joe J and Marvin Williams at the wing. That's similar to all the fans who wants to fill a need (Rubio) rather than draft for the better talent (Griffin).
With all due respect and with a rod to the ability of some to hold firm to their belief, but there were people who would've picked Melo over Lebron in 2003! And the year before that, many in America would've picked Jay Williams over Yao Ming. Those #1s are as obvious as they come. My point is, what the hell do we know?
I don't watch college BB and I have never seen Griffin play. I have seen Rubio play several times. We need a PG in a bad, bad way. Rubio is a gamble because he may not get the buyout from the Spanish team. He has to get used to different "world" not just basketball. I extremely dislike any Spanish or Argentinian BB player or even athletes of any kind for that matter but this kid is a phenomenal talent and if You like to gamble You take him. If You want to play safe, really safe - You take the other guy.
I skipped 2008 and 2007 because it's too early to tell. I already mentioned 2006. In 2005 Andrew Bogut was the consensus #1 pick. Chris Paul went fourth. In 2004 it was about 50/50 for Emeka Okafor or Dwight Howard. A lot of people thought Okafor was #1 because he just won a championship and was a solid character guy. Howard is a future hall of famer, Okafor is a league average starter with injury problems. Obviously 2003 was the year of Lebron, but what about Dwayne Wade going 4th? (cough...5th. Excuse me Darko, didn't see you there.) Is there anybody who thought Wade would be a better player than Melo? In 2002 Yao was the obvious pick, but then 7 more players get picked before Amare including Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden, Dajuan Wagner, Nickoloz Tskitishvili. I don't recall anyone ranking Amare at #2 because he was a "questionable character guy" or whatever. The highest anyone had him slotted was 5 or 6. I could keep going. The so-called experts are wrong just as much as they're right. There's no one standard for defining who the best prospect is. And there's no guarantee that a guy who dominated in college (or high school, or Europe) will continue to do so in the NBA.
Oh and there's also Hasheem or Jordan. Forget about Sam Bowie. Everyone takes Hasheem #1 in 1984. Everyone would take Jordan if they could do it over.
Oh and there's also Hasheem or Jordan. Forget about Sam Bowie. Everyone takes Hasheem #1 in 1984. Everyone would take Jordan if they could do it over.
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Its hard to say people are playing follow the leader when it seems like 2/3 of the people here want Ricky Rubio just because his name is Ricky Rubio.
Griffin is has proven SO much more than Rubio at this point that I find it funny people wouldnt take him number 1. You call it safe, I call it being smart.
All this being said I probly take Ricky 2nd.
I wasn't really aiming my response at the Kings community in general. I think the poll results show pretty clearly that there isn't a consensus top pick in this draft. It's effectively a 50/50 split. (Well, that or just how bad Beno Udrih has been this year.) I was responding mostly to the people who argued for picking Blake Griffin simply because he's been called the consensus #1 by the experts. A few people supported that argument on the previous page. That's where my response was aimed.
Actually, regardless of who you think the bigger talent is, all of the above is pretty much wrong. Griffin, good as he is, hasn't proven close to the amount Rubio has. Want to try and dispute that?
Look, I understand that most want Griffin at number one. That's fine. But why is it that if someone likes Rubio more, it's because of his name? It is the most illogical "argument" I think I've ever heard. Do you guys know how ridiculous you sound? Some people have actually seen Rubio alot and like him more. End of story.
At the end of all this, one of them is going to end up being better. It is all subjective. Experts get it completely wrong just as much as the fans. Quoting the "experts" is ridiculous as they're often way off. It is not as silly as it sounds to rate Rubio higher than Griffin. I don't get how people think it is. Sure, you may have a different opinion, but it's no reason to be so hard-headed. I don't like to use the word "hater", but some people are just that when it comes to Rubio. Of course, you can still dislike Rubios game and not be a "hater", but it's pretty obvious some people are willing him to fail. Whether that's because of his nationality or something else, I have no idea. Maybe it's the hype he's gotten (although the hype doesn't seem to matter when it's an American prospect).
Both have weaknesses. I'm torn, myself. I like Rubio more but I'm not sure who I'd go with number one. I think Griffin is a better athlete than people give him credit for. He's going to go straight into that "elite" group IMO. On the other hand, he doesn't have a refined offense, and he gets his points off putbacks and the like. I guess he can develop some moves if he works at it. His defense is non-existent. He seems to be a little undersized. Rubio brings great size and length, great leadership as well as top notch PG skills. Is he a good enough shooter? Is he a good enough athlete? Time will tell.
The point alot of you aren't getting is that if someone is torn between Griffin and Rubio, and rates them equally, you're obviously going to take whoever fills the biggest need. It's the logical thing. You could end up with the right pick, or you might not. But nobody can look into the future!
I think Petrie proved last year that he will make a pick that isn't perceived to be the consensus or "right" pick. Everyone thought he reached for that small school player last year. Seems to be working out okay so far. If Petrie feels Rubio is a better prospect it wouldn't surpirse me at all if he is picked before Griffin if we have the #1. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, just saying that I think our GM is going to take the player that HE feels is the best.
Ahhh, you have hit the nail on the head. If their rated equally, then who would you pick. A big if in many peoples minds, including mine. But as I stated before, I haven't seen enough of Rubio to honestly say he's as good as advertised. Thats not to say that he isn't. I've watched Griffin play at least 20 plus times between last year and this year. I seen Rubio play twice. In one of those games, Rubio didn't impress me all that much. In the other, he blew me away with his skill level.
There are people expounding on this fourm that have probably never seen either one of them play. They read the draft fourms and make their decision based on that info. In other words, there's a lot of smoke being blown around here lately. Hey, everyone's entitled to his/her opinion, but I value the opinion of those that I know have put in the time. I don't always agree with them, but thats what makes the world go round.
Back to the subject.. Lets assume that Griffin and Rubio are of equal talent. In different ways of course, but equal in the possibilites of stardom. If thats the case, then I believe that you would have to draft Rubio. Because at this point, you would have to go for need. Hey, I was one of those screaming at my television set when we drafted jumping Joe Kleine. So there's a part of me that says, please don't repeat history. But you add into the equation that Petrie tends to like very skilled players, then thats just one more reason to lean toward Rubio.
If were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft, and we get to choose between Griffin and Rubio, we will no doubt get a good player. Maybe an all-star. I don't think that the Kings are as far away from turning things around as some others do. Ask yourself this. If you have Hawes, JT, Martin, and Noc. on the floor and you add Chris Paul to that group, how good to you think we would be? Yeah, I know were not about to aquire Paul, but what if Rubio is in that same class of upper tier pt guards? We would certainly be a competitive team again. Hey, I can dream, can't I?
There are people expounding on this fourm that have probably never seen either one of them play. They read the draft fourms and make their decision based on that info. In other words, there's a lot of smoke being blown around here lately. Hey, everyone's entitled to his/her opinion, but I value the opinion of those that I know have put in the time. I don't always agree with them, but thats what makes the world go round.
Back to the subject.. Lets assume that Griffin and Rubio are of equal talent. In different ways of course, but equal in the possibilites of stardom. If thats the case, then I believe that you would have to draft Rubio. Because at this point, you would have to go for need. Hey, I was one of those screaming at my television set when we drafted jumping Joe Kleine. So there's a part of me that says, please don't repeat history. But you add into the equation that Petrie tends to like very skilled players, then thats just one more reason to lean toward Rubio.
If were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft, and we get to choose between Griffin and Rubio, we will no doubt get a good player. Maybe an all-star. I don't think that the Kings are as far away from turning things around as some others do. Ask yourself this. If you have Hawes, JT, Martin, and Noc. on the floor and you add Chris Paul to that group, how good to you think we would be? Yeah, I know were not about to aquire Paul, but what if Rubio is in that same class of upper tier pt guards? We would certainly be a competitive team again. Hey, I can dream, can't I?
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I really think Geoff Petrie is very intrigued by Ricky Rubio - more so than Blake Griffin. I'm not saying he won't take Griffin if Kings get overall #1 pick. But I'm 99.9% certain he'd be overjoyed with Ricky if Kings draft #2 or #3 and he's sitting there. Some of my reasoning for GP on the Rubio bandwagon are: He's personally scouted him (among other Euro players) and nothing says he was not anything but highly impressed with the teenager who is easily best PG playing outside the USA. Second, GP got very popular Andres Nocioni from the Chicago Bulls who is multi-lingual (Spanish, Italian, English) and could be an excellent mentor (or just buddy) when and if the young Spaniard Rubio lands in Sacramento. Of course, Cisco Garcia speaks Spanish and could be a similar good friend and mentor. So, regardless if the Kings have 25% chance or 20% chance of getting #1 pick, I think there's about a 95% chance either Ricky Rubio or Blake Griffin are on Kings next season - baring trading pick or some contact buy-out difficulty.
You've made some good points here. If you really wanted to intice Rubio to declare, and your likely to be one of the teams that would have a shot at him, why not make him feel comfortable with being picked by you. If I were an 18 year old kid being drafted, I would like to have some players on that team with which I had some things in common. Such as language, and understanding of my culture.
Yeah I think learning the NBA game would come quicker to him than any college freshman coming out because of his professional experience. He also has alot to learn. Given that and as good as he looks now he has potential to be very good.
I look at it this way. most ppl get highlight videos of these guys. I have seen Thabeet and Griffin videos and games of course. But you could make a 20 min video of Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes that makes them look like all-stars as well. Only difference is theirs is against NBA competition. Now i have seen an hour worth of Rubio highlights I am not sure we could a make a 5 min video of Beno if we combined that last 2 years.
That said Griffin would just be an extension of what we already have with JT or vice versa if you want to start Griffin. Thabeet gives us shotblocking abilities and size we don't have but, he would be a bench player. Rubio gives us something we haven't seen since Jason Williams and at 18 looks more controlled than Jason did at 26. Maybe Rubio could be a Williams-Bibby combo of sort (wishful thinking probably).
All that said I think Rubio gives us the Biggest impact for the future where as Griffin or Thabeet would give us immediate impact but not as significant. It would be nice to get 2 of the 3
I look at it this way. most ppl get highlight videos of these guys. I have seen Thabeet and Griffin videos and games of course. But you could make a 20 min video of Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes that makes them look like all-stars as well. Only difference is theirs is against NBA competition. Now i have seen an hour worth of Rubio highlights I am not sure we could a make a 5 min video of Beno if we combined that last 2 years.
That said Griffin would just be an extension of what we already have with JT or vice versa if you want to start Griffin. Thabeet gives us shotblocking abilities and size we don't have but, he would be a bench player. Rubio gives us something we haven't seen since Jason Williams and at 18 looks more controlled than Jason did at 26. Maybe Rubio could be a Williams-Bibby combo of sort (wishful thinking probably).
All that said I think Rubio gives us the Biggest impact for the future where as Griffin or Thabeet would give us immediate impact but not as significant. It would be nice to get 2 of the 3
There is no doubt that Petrie woudl find Rubio intriguing. He is a skilled player with a high basketball IQ and I think most importantly for us, he is a real leader. One minus in Petrie's mind would be Rubio's shooting.
Its no secret that Petrie prefers the Princeton offence, where bigs are the ones running the team. In a system like that, I am not sure Rubio's skill set is a great fit. Rubio has the passing ability and flair that J-Will had but he is no where near the shooter that J-Will was. J-Will could shoot the ball well, he could pull up off the dribble and nail a 3. Sure he was out of control at times but the man could shoot better than Rubio so he was a good fit for the Princeton offense.
Rubio is a classic pass first PG who makes those around him better, has the passing ability, vision, flair and great maturity in running a team. However, if we are to go down the track of playing some version of Princeton offense, Rubio is not a great fit. He is not really the type to stand in the corner and launch long range shots. He is someone who needs the ball and freedom to run the team to make the best use of his skillset.
Personally, I would draft Rubio regardless. I think his shot has improved and will continue to improve. He will never have Peja jump shot but he will develop it enough to keep the defender honest. What I like about Rubio is that he has maturity beyond his years. He runs the team like a veteran. He makes things easier for those around him. He is an active defender and is willing to try. These are all the things we currently need. But the thing that we need the most is someone to be a leader, someone to play with energy and someone who has that hunger to succeed and lead the team. I think Rubio has that. Now how all that translates to the NBA level, no one knows but there is no denying that the kid is a very special talent and considering our needs he is the one that probably feels those needs the most. Leadership, ability to control the game, swagger and flair. This team is in desperate need of a player with those assets.
Its no secret that Petrie prefers the Princeton offence, where bigs are the ones running the team. In a system like that, I am not sure Rubio's skill set is a great fit. Rubio has the passing ability and flair that J-Will had but he is no where near the shooter that J-Will was. J-Will could shoot the ball well, he could pull up off the dribble and nail a 3. Sure he was out of control at times but the man could shoot better than Rubio so he was a good fit for the Princeton offense.
Rubio is a classic pass first PG who makes those around him better, has the passing ability, vision, flair and great maturity in running a team. However, if we are to go down the track of playing some version of Princeton offense, Rubio is not a great fit. He is not really the type to stand in the corner and launch long range shots. He is someone who needs the ball and freedom to run the team to make the best use of his skillset.
Personally, I would draft Rubio regardless. I think his shot has improved and will continue to improve. He will never have Peja jump shot but he will develop it enough to keep the defender honest. What I like about Rubio is that he has maturity beyond his years. He runs the team like a veteran. He makes things easier for those around him. He is an active defender and is willing to try. These are all the things we currently need. But the thing that we need the most is someone to be a leader, someone to play with energy and someone who has that hunger to succeed and lead the team. I think Rubio has that. Now how all that translates to the NBA level, no one knows but there is no denying that the kid is a very special talent and considering our needs he is the one that probably feels those needs the most. Leadership, ability to control the game, swagger and flair. This team is in desperate need of a player with those assets.
The Princeton isn't about bigs running the show. It's a motion offense that looks to create easy shots for players with passing and cutting. (some would say it's geared towards the less quick, less athletic players) Yes, you want everyone to be able to shoot (take what the defense gives you) but it's not necessary because Doug Christie wasn't a shooter when he was here. If your bigs can pass, you use that skill to your advantage. If not, you get them to do something else.
New Jersey ran it with Jason Kidd with Eddie Jordan as offensive coordinator. Kidd isn't a shooter and their bigs weren't great passers. Similar situation in Washington with Jordan again. Byron Scott runs it in NO with Chris paul.
With Jason Kidd, and Chris Paul as examples, you should be able to run a variation of it with Rubio. You can always change it up to take into consideration the strength of your players.
Darius Songaila got a contract in Washington, and Peja with NO, I would say partly because of their experience with the Princeton.
Another misconception about the Princeton is that it's run n' gun. It has just as much history as a slow tempo, grind it out system. The slower tempo allowed Princeton Uni to be one of the better defensive teams back in the days under Carril. The slow pace and the defensive result was criticized a lot, but that's how the best defensive teams in the NBA do it also. They slow it down.
New Jersey ran it with Jason Kidd with Eddie Jordan as offensive coordinator. Kidd isn't a shooter and their bigs weren't great passers. Similar situation in Washington with Jordan again. Byron Scott runs it in NO with Chris paul.
With Jason Kidd, and Chris Paul as examples, you should be able to run a variation of it with Rubio. You can always change it up to take into consideration the strength of your players.
Darius Songaila got a contract in Washington, and Peja with NO, I would say partly because of their experience with the Princeton.
Another misconception about the Princeton is that it's run n' gun. It has just as much history as a slow tempo, grind it out system. The slower tempo allowed Princeton Uni to be one of the better defensive teams back in the days under Carril. The slow pace and the defensive result was criticized a lot, but that's how the best defensive teams in the NBA do it also. They slow it down.
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OK, I change my mind. This kid will be good!
OK, I change my mind. This kid will be good!
the youtube code on this messge board is actually much simpler -- just substitute "yt" for "zt" in the code I post here:
[zt=ttttttttttt]cccccccccccccccc[/zt]
where ttttttt = the title of the clip, if you want to add one
and ccccccc = the code of the clip (the set of numbers/letters at the end of the address in your address window -- in your clip it was uOLkVnArx2g)
and where you substite yt for zt
So your clip would look like this:
[zt=Rubio Clip]uOLkVnArx2g[/zt]
now just change zt to yt and:
[yt=Rubio Clip]uOLkVnArx2g[/yt]