Grades v. Timberwolves 12/10

[Bricklayer]

becuase i can't quite tell on what side you are on

And please take that as a compliment Sloter.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Ugh.....

This was maybe the first game all season I was really concerned about Webb's leg. He started out the game literally dragging his feet up and down the court, then he dunked and seemed to be moving better. But then he hit the deck- literally lost his balance a couple of times-to which one instance he was running (using that term very loosely) down the court and then slapped his hand on his knee and the other he was on the ground and put his forehead to his knee and then appeared to be walking off whatever tweak he took along the baseline. This is a scary time right now that we can only hope will pass in time....

OK, now on to the basketball side:

Webber does not need--heck no one on this team-needs to be taking 27 shots. I don't care if they are all within in the offense, you can't tell me there should be more patience and at least 7-10 of those could have gone to....

Peja! Goodness where to start. I don't know how you play 42 min a take only 8 shots. I think Brick has it right when its a combination of a lot of factors that resulted in so few shot attempts for him. The Kings do run things for him, but if Peja isn't making his cuts (for whatever reason) and being aggressive things are going to look like they did in this game. But such is the case when you have a player who relies totally on others to set him up and can't create his own shots. That's not meant to be a knock on Peja, its the truth.

All that being said, the game wasn't lost on that end of the court. The Twovles didn't shoot 50% to the 4Q. I didn't just sit there behind a TV screen and watch plays develop yelling at guys to find their men right before they hit an open 3 from the corner.

This was weird, did anyone else notice it: At the time the Kings began to "unravel" and the TW's make their push, much like-exactly like the last game, the time (on the Kings broadcast) went out? Erie!

 

[TheSerbianQueen]

Peja ( C- ) -- was rendered invisible again vs. the Wolves. An old story. But with a new twist -- this time Peja wasn't harrassed into a horrendous shooting night. This time he never even got the shots off. Which of course raises the eternal question of why -- was it the Wolves defense denying him the ball, sometimes even doubling him without it, and using his lack of athleticism against him? Was it the Kings themselves not recognizing and/or looking for him, and possibly even being conscious of his history against this team? Was it Peja himself just quitting after a while? Giving up and not moving or making the sharp cuts? Or a combination of all of the above? I vote for the combination myself. But one way or the other, another game against the Wolves. Another game when Peja plays major minutes with little production. Played good defense for 3 quarters, but came suspiciously close to quitting there in the 4th.

Interesting points..... I didn't get to watch the game (no broadcast up here), but i checked the box scores and noticed that Pedja didn't even take many shots. he was 5-8 from the field and 2-3 from the 3pts. ..... That's not a bad percentage at all, but it is VERY low number of shots taken.....
This is why I found Bricks comment interesting - is it that Wolves always play such a great D on Pedja, or is it that the team is not looking for him enough and helping him get open..... or is it both?? Pedja is definitely someone who should make more attempts that that

 

[Bricklayer]

Interesting points..... I didn't get to watch the game (no broadcast up here), but i checked the box scores and noticed that Pedja didn't even take many shots. he was 5-8 from the field and 2-3 from the 3pts. ..... That's not a bad percentage at all, but it is VERY low number of shots taken.....
This is why I found Bricks comment interesting - is it that Wolves always play such a great D on Pedja, or is it that the team is not looking for him enough and helping him get open..... or is it both?? Pedja is definitely someone who should make more attempts that that

Given that he gets double that number of shots against eveyone but the Wolves, their defense clearly plays a major factor.

 

[piksi]

Ugh.....

This was maybe the first game all season I was really concerned about Webb's leg. He started out the game literally dragging his feet up and down the court, then he dunked and seemed to be moving better. But then he hit the deck- literally lost his balance a couple of times-to which one instance he was running (using that term very loosely) down the court and then slapped his hand on his knee and the other he was on the ground and put his forehead to his knee and then appeared to be walking off whatever tweak he took along the baseline. This is a scary time right now that we can only hope will pass in time....

OK, now on to the basketball side:

Webber does not need--heck no one on this team-needs to be taking 27 shots. I don't care if they are all within in the offense, you can't tell me there should be more patience and at least 7-10 of those could have gone to....

Peja! Goodness where to start. I don't know how you play 42 min a take only 8 shots. I think Brick has it right when its a combination of a lot of factors that resulted in so few shot attempts for him. The Kings do run things for him, but if Peja isn't making his cuts (for whatever reason) and being aggressive things are going to look like they did in this game. But such is the case when you have a player who relies totally on others to set him up and can't create his own shots. That's not meant to be a knock on Peja, its the truth.

All that being said, the game wasn't lost on that end of the court. The Twovles didn't shoot 50% to the 4Q. I didn't just sit there behind a TV screen and watch plays develop yelling at guys to find their men right before they hit an open 3 from the corner.

This was weird, did anyone else notice it: At the time the Kings began to "unravel" and the TW's make their push, much like-exactly like the last game, the time (on the Kings broadcast) went out? Erie!

Lot's of truth here. To compleate the picture the role of Bibby needed to be explained here. On both ends of the court. We would be a grat tea if we only had one PG on this team

 

[Bricklayer]

Lot's of truth here. To compleate the picture the role of Bibby needed to be explained here. On both ends of the court. We would be a grat tea if we only had one PG on this team

No, then we'd be just like the 28 teams in the league who we are BETTER than on offense. Our multifaceted passing attack is what makes us uniquely unguardable (even for the Wolves BTW -- we just dropped 105pts on an elite team).

 

[piksi]

No, then we'd be just like the 28 teams in the league who we are BETTER than on offense. Our multifaceted passing attack is what makes us uniquely unguardable (even for the Wolves BTW -- we just dropped 105pts on an elite team).

How many points in the last 5 minutes ? How many good posession in the last 5 minutes ? Also I am sick and tired of playing every defensive possesion with 4 players. Bibby is a great player for the last second shot. Beyond that he has not improved a bit since WCF 2002. At least JW sat on the bench late in the 4th so we can play some defense. Now we do not have that either.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Lot's of truth here. To compleate the picture the role of Bibby needed to be explained here. On both ends of the court. We would be a grat tea if we only had one PG on this team

Then we wouldn't be the Kings. The Kings are team that is largely made up of good ball handlers and great passers. I mean did you all see that pass Webb made to DC. He was almost at the 3pt line it was a behind the back no look straigt down the middle to the back door cutting Doug Chrisitie. That was special, its (one of the things) what makes the Kings special.

On Bibby-I would have liked to see him take control of things late in the fourth. Really get the Kings into their offense. But it didn't happen. The play mentioned above is great...in the first 3 Qs. Its not the type of thing that happens in the 4th when the intensity and defenisve levels increase. Mike has to take control and run the team as a PG in the 4th...IMHO.

 

[Bricklayer]

How many points in the last 5 minutes ? How many good posession in the last 5 minutes ? Also I am sick and tired of playing every defensive possesion with 4 players. Bibby is a great player for the last second shot. Beyond that he has not improved a bit since WCF 2002. At least JW sat on the bench late in the 4th so we can play some defense. Now we do not have that either.

If you score 105 in the first three quarters and then ZERO in the 4th, you should still win that game. That wasn't the main problem (and to the degree it was it was precisely because we collectively quit running the best offense in the NBA -- quick shooting, no passing from anybody).

The defense is what it is. Unfortunately our whole team is built that way -- offense first, defense if you happen to have it. There are relatively few good defensive PGs in the league right now, and basically none which can also pass and shoot. Cassel's a crappy defender too.

 

[bozzwell]

If you score 105 in the first three quarters and then ZERO in the 4th, you should still win that game. That wasn't the main problem (and to the degree it was it was precisely because we collectively quit running the best offense in the NBA -- quick shooting, no passing from anybody).

The defense is what it is. Unfortunately our whole team is built that way -- offense first, defense if you happen to have it. There are relatively few good defensive PGs in the league right now, and basically none which can also pass and shoot. Cassel's a crappy defender too.

Come on now - we're talking defence down the stretch here. I think that piksi is suggesting that Bibby should try to play it for those last 3-4 minutes of the close games or he should be set down. There comes a point in a close game against a team such as Wolves where:

- Bibby should step up his D. I will never understand NBA people and fans mythologising defence to the extent it is done today. Of course it is very important and requires special knowledge and ability, but it is not that hard to be compoetent defender (for a professional athlete).
- Pedja should start working hard instead of "working smart" (it is not enough for him to be "available" and to "stretch the floor", if nothing else stick closer to the basket so a rebound might at least fall on your head)
- Webber should start working smart instead of working hard (whether 18 footers are dropping or not going inside is much better percentage play and potential trip to the line, no fancy passes - your opponents know that you can do it too).

 

[MotorCityKingsFan]

Here's my grades for this game:

C-Webb--B (25pts, 7 rebs)

Peja--C (defense woes)

Bibby--D (horrible defense on Cassell)

Miller--C (ok outing)

Rick Adelman--D (lack of defensive agressiveness in 4th Qtrs)

 

[Kingsgurl]

Please they are exactly 6 cats on this site that i never agreed with them in any Thread sincea year let's not name names so they don't get to personal. Let's just say those cats think they are really smart.

I hope I'm a cat.

 

[VF21]

We lost. We could have won but we didn't... If you want the easy reason why, look to the FT%... You don't win when you shoot 68% from the line. Period.

Yes there were mistakes made. It happens. I'm not going to slit my wrists over this game. There were mistakes made that are correctable. If some of you want to moan that the sky is falling, that's fine.

It was only ONE loss ... ONE. We weren't outplayed from end to end. Had we been, I might be worried. What I think I garnered the most after wading through this thread is that there are some people who cannot see the big picture.

BTW, my overall team grade is a D. They had the game won. They let it slip through their fingers. Not getting the ball to Pedja was a key mistake, IMHO, as was Brad's abysmal performance from the stripe. In closing, WHAT was so interesting to Bobby that he completed missed the round sphere hurling at him through the air??????

It's one game, folks. It's not the end of the world. The Spurs - who were touted to be the toughest team in the league this year - have lost a couple of games and you don't see their fans running off to find the rusty razor blades. It's a long season. The Kings are going to lose some games. We lost this one. Learn from it and MOVE ON!

GO KINGS!!!!!!

 

[Heuge]

Please they are exactly 6 cats on this site that i never agreed with them in any Thread sincea year let's not name names so they don't get to personal. Let's just say those cats think they are really smart.

Meow

 

[Heuge]

Peja--C (defense woes)

He was pretty good on D last night. He did his job. I agree with the "C". I would give him a "C" because he did not move on offence. Whether that is RA fault or his I am not sure.

 

[VF21]

I have to comment about the Miller grade... had he made his FREE THROWS we wouldn't be wringing our hands in despair. You can't simply quit hitting those shots in critical games. So, sadly, I cannot see giving him anything better than a C at best, and probably a C-.

 

[quick dog]

Bibby is the Problem

I still think the only real problem with the Kings is extra effort, which equates to rebounds. They did not try very hard to gather rebounds last night. It showed.

Mike Bibby looks for Webber. He needs to look for Peja more often. I really think Mike is the reason Peja sometimes under-performs. You can't shoot and make points when you don't see the ball. It's Bibby, not Peja.

What is wrong with Doug Christie? Why does he believe that he does not need to score? Don't they call his position a "shooting guard"?

What happened to Bobby? The ball hit his in the chest/arm. That was too wierd.

The Kings need to go ballsitic on the Wolves in the fourth quarters. If the Wolves can keep it close, Garnett, Cassell, and the other shooters will win the game in the fourth. It's almost like watching the championship Chicago Bulls with MJ, or the championship Los Angeles Lakers with KB. The Kings need to respond before the fit hits the shan, not after.

 

[Bartking]

The Kings need to go ballsitic on the Wolves in the fourth quarters. If the Wolves can keep it close, Garnett, Cassell, and the other shooters will win the game in the fourth. It's almost like watching the championship Chicago Bulls with MJ, or the championship Los Angeles Lakers with KB. The Kings need to respond before the fit hits the shan, not after.

Maybe the only way we can win it all is by having a big lead going into the 4th and also not having a series go more than 5 games. We have never won a playoff series in the modern era (post 1999) that went MORE THAN FIVE GAMES! Kinda like the Spurs...I call it "choke to win." If you have a big enough lead, you can afford some mistakes in crunch time.

One plus for us - I heard rumours that Cassell might be traded.

About Pedja - I played against a guy in my fantasy league who had him. I saw that at halftime of one game, Pedja had scored alot of points and was tearing up the stat sheet. You know what I thought? "Well, Pedja won't be scoring very much in the second half." And he didn't. Why??? I think it's a combination of things:

1) tougher defense
2) Bibby doesn't pass him the ball
3) he responds to 2) by getting lazier. Anybody who's played basketball knows how it feels to be open and not get the ball. You don't continue the same effort.

BTW, in the recent interview on TNT, Bibby said he "blocked out" the Pedja issue when the team met after the summer. I recall Webber saying that they talked.

 

[4cwebb]

The defense is what it is. Unfortunately our whole team is built that way -- offense first, defense if you happen to have it. There are relatively few good defensive PGs in the league right now, and basically none which can also pass and shoot. Cassel's a crappy defender too.

The main exception here (and difference b/w us and the Twolves) is Christie. He's defense first, and offense if he has it, and that is what hurts us against the Twolves. They can hide Cassell on Christie, and it doesn't hurt them that much, but the Kings can't hide Bibby on anyone, unless they want to try Hassell, but even Hassell can take Bibby in the post.

As for Bibby's defense, let's not forget that PGs often have a very tough job in running through many high screens while the player they are guarding has the ball (so no putting hands on him), and in this instance the slow-footed Kings big guys hurt the team defense as much as Bibby. They can't show as much as they need to show to redirect the PG coming off of that high screen with the ball, giving Bibby less time to get back into position. If they do show enough, they can't recover quickly enough to get back in position on their men, or they can't get over to another offensive player on the floor. Could Bibby be a better defender? Yes. Could CWebb and Miller be of more help to him on high screen and rolls. Yes.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, let's not get confused here -- I ABSOLUTELY believe that Bibby's defense sucks. I could probably do a better job myself, or at least put forth a better more consistent effort. But the problem is that there are very few PGs who are truly strong defenders, and the few who are cannot play within ouor offense at the level Bibby does. We could go plug Eric Snow in as our PG, but for every bit of defense we'd gain, we'd lose just as much at the other end of the floor and have the most impotent backcourt in the NBA.

Our best hope for our defense may be what happened in the playoffs last year. When it came time to play, we did. We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire playoffs despite our season long struggles. What broke down for us was ouor offense.

 

[BigWaxer]

We lost. We could have won but we didn't... If you want the easy reason why, look to the FT%... You don't win when you shoot 68% from the line. Period.

It's unfortunate that this is a recurring theme during the big games. This was a big game considering the Kings have not been able to beat Minny lately.

 

[GoGoGadget]

What happened to Bobby? The ball hit his in the chest/arm. That was too wierd.

That was Bibby's problem, too. He should have respected the fact that Bobby was far more interested in something else at the time and not made the pass.













Sorry for the bratty response. 'Twas far too tempting to pass up.