coolhandluke
Starter
I need some help here folks. What exactly is a "slutty" picture? Which women can be called "sluts"? I don't want to put people in the wrong box while categoring them. 

GoGoGadget said:Not everything has to be reduced to a sexuality factor, but most things usually are.
As for the dance teams... sure, they've gotten more overtly sexual in the last few years. And, sure, they're a lot more about hot girls than actual talent these days. But, when were they ever about anything more than breaking up the monotony of a quarter break by bring out a few pretty girls to shake a little ***?
This whole ridiculous contest has been about the "slut factor" since the minute it started, regardless of who pointed it out first. If it wasn't, there would be clips of the girls dancing to vote on, instead of still photographs.
I, personally, am slightly bothered by the nature of this particular contest. Have been since it was first publicized. However, insinuating that a few comments by the male posters in this thread is, single-handedly, what made this contest about the objectification of women is a blatant exaggeration, and more than a little defensive.
DocHolliday said:Actually go downtown...go to clubs....go to bars...go to shops.....they are sexy they are attractive and 65% of them are dressing kind of slutty. Not bad to look at, but no one I'd want to be mine. We are talking about a majority here, and we're talking about people that are in the age range of still being highly desireable by a large range of men.
Felt that way when I read it. If I misunderstood, I apologize.VF21 said:Didn't say that. Didn't insinuate that.
I guess this is the part that confuses me -- is it a new thing for the dance team to be about sexuality? This "contest" is a bit more unabashed in forcing the sex issue, but it has always been there. Always.VF21 said:What I said was what I meant. Having known the mom of at least one Royal Court Dancer, I find it somewhat troubling that the whole group is now looked upon as something to be posed as slutty as possible to win some ridiculous contest.
You're right, that comment was indeed quite telling.VF21 said:And I also thought it was pretty telling that the whole "add more sluttiness" comment was made to begin with.
GoGoGadget said:...but this contest has never been about anything but voting on which team's dancers inspire the most wet dreams.
6th said:And, therein lies the entire problem, AFAIC. And it is not only the men wanting more "slut look" that bothers me. It is that young women don't really care that it degrades them...and all women...when they allow it.
GoGoGadget said:Well, obviously.
The scope of that problem, however, makes this little dancer contest look like just the very tip of the degradation iceburg. And it's a problem that seems to be growing rapidly, unfortunately. I think that's why I have a hard time being shocked or surprised by the crass nature of this particular example of exploitation -- it was only a matter of time.
As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good argument, I have a question:6th said:And, therein lies the entire problem, AFAIC. And it is not only the men wanting more "slut look" that bothers me. It is that young women don't really care that it degrades them...and all women...when they allow it.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good argument, I have a question:
On whose onus is it to determine that these women are degrading themselves? Who decides? I mean, if they are not ashamed of what they are doing, and do not feel degraded by it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Are we the Thought Police? Thou shalt conform to my sense of modesty, or else?
VF21 said:I think this might be, more than anything else, a carryover from my younger years.
Women have worked very, very hard to get to where they are now. I guess I'm just disappointed in this obvious step backwards...
I watched the game tonight and saw a "cheerleading squad" on the court for the Utah Jazz. I'm very sure their location had something to do with it, but those "dancers" and cheerleaders weren't just about pandering. They actually did some pretty complicated cheering routines.
I guess I just was fooling myself with the thought that the current dancers for the Kings and most other teams are about anything other than blatant sexuality. I'm old and senile, I guess. I just don't think everything "entertaining" has to be about sex.
Peace.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good argument, I have a question:
On whose onus is it to determine that these women are degrading themselves? Who decides? I mean, if they are not ashamed of what they are doing, and do not feel degraded by it, who are we to tell them otherwise? Are we the Thought Police? Thou shalt conform to my sense of modesty, or else?
GoGoGadget said:I think there may be a misconception here that I somehow support the contest or the hyper-sexuality of the dance teams in general. I don't. I'm pretty disgusted by it, actually.
Believe me, over the course of my life, I've been rather intimately and unpleasantly presented with the objectification of women in today's society. Certainly enough for this whole thing to rub me the wrong way (and, yes, I realize that very early in this thread I made at least one joke that could probably be looked at as a little crude and may somewhat contradict my current stance... sue me).
As for tonight's game in Utah -- there was an actual cheerleading squad that popped up from time to time. They looked quite young, possibly a local high school? The few times I caught a glimpse of the actual dance team, however, they were pretty scantilly clad and doing the typical dance team booty shaking. The first outfit I noticed was a tiny little skirt that was relatively harmless. The second, however, consisted of spandex pants and little sweatband sized shirts that were riding up in such a way that several of the girls almost gave the crowd a free show.
Yes, there was a Jazz dance team. I only noticed them a couple of times myself, but they were there.VF21 said:So the cheerleaders WEREN'T for the Jazz and there were other dancers?
Sorry, but I must have missed that part. Between doing the PBP and trying to fit bathroom breaks, trips to the kitchen, adding wood to the stove, etc. during the brief commercials, I guess I miss some of that stuff.
I wasn't aware there was anyone mad at you.VF21 said:I'm bowing out of this before I get anyone else mad at me...
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I don't know whether it is or it isn't; that's why I asked the question... The truth be told, my own opinion regarding the "dance teams" are not dramatically different from either yours or 6th's; in fact, that post was part of an ongoing process that I've recently undertaken to challenge my own paradigms, in this case, my own sense of modesty and decency.VF21 said:Hey, that's a little out there, isn't it?
I'm not at all sure that the two of you do not, in fact, agree with the majority; after all, the term "Moral Majority" did not self-actualize.VF21 said:Would you prefer if sixth and I didn't say anything because our views don't agree with the majority?
I did not ream you for your opinion, and I wish that you would please stop being so defensive. I may have made the mistake of attempting to challenge your opinions, as well as my own, but that doesn't mean that I am against you, or that I am out to "get" you. For the most part, I agree with you but, as I asked before, if these "dancers" do not feel ashamed of their "dances," if they do not feel degraded, then maybe they shouldn't be... who decides? I mean, I may be of the opinion that Jennifer is a filthy, dirty, disgusting, brutal, bottom-feeding trash bag ho, but is it up to me to decide that she should consider herself to be one as well? For all I know, she considers herself to be "salt of the earth." Who's right?VF21 said:... I don't think we should be reamed for our opinions.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Hrmm... in this particular case, I think that you're just expecting too much from young men... we are just men, after all...VF21 said:In all honesty, to use your example, I don't think it's so much what Jennifer or any other dancer thinks of herself as much as what some of the fans are saying and thinking. It just struck me as very wrong that something like this should be so quickly reduced to "Which Dance Team is the Sluttiest?"... Shows a base quality that I would really like to think wasn't representative of most of us.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:Hrmm... in this particular case, I think that you're just expecting too much from young men... we are just men, after all...
Now, it may be equally symptomatic that young men, as part of their thought process, classify some young women as "sluts," but that's another soapbox entirely...
VF21 said:And that may be precisely true.
It's easy, especially on a sports message board, to fall into the habit of measuring others by how well they live up to or fail to meet your own expectations of them. Whether or not those expectations are even valid is, as you say, an entirely different soapbox.
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Mr. S£im Citrus said:Hrmm... in this particular case, I think that you're just expecting too much from young men... we are just men, after all...
Now, it may be equally symptomatic that young men, as part of their thought process, classify some young women as "sluts," but that's another soapbox entirely...
loopymitch said:I think we should have some male dancers to look at, it would make half time much more entertaning![]()
quick dog said:This is an interesting discussion if for no other reason that it exposes the massive hypocrisy and political correctness of polite society that attempts to define women and conceal some great and irrevocable realities of life.
Unfortunately, I spent decades of my younger life believing that most women actually believe what socially conservative women admonish on this issue. In fact, or more accurately in my opinion, the vast majority of women do not believe this stuff, and they never have.
Women create most of the world's sexual tension. Apparently, that is the way nature works. Like it or not, women routinely tantalize men, all the time, and almost everywhere. Women and lots of under-aged girls do everything they can to make themselves attractive to the opposite gender. No expense or effort is spared. If women can not generate sufficient attention just by appearance and conservativel behavior, they often become more aggressive. It IS in fact THE GAME.
The hypocrisy of feminist protestations is appaling. GGG is a perfect example. She seems to be very bright, educated, and worldly. Yet, she always displays avatars with sexy women. Avatars yield information about the poster. Angeline Jolee and the earlier avatar subject exude sexuality. By the way, I think it is a good thing.
The appearance, behavior, and role of women in society is practically the only thing that remains interesting and fun for most men. I also am convinced that most men like a little slutiness in their women.
IMHO.![]()
DocHolliday said:See I don't even think what I said is a commentary on me as a person. I never said that's what *I* think. I said it's what needs to be done to WIN. This is a BS contest, but in competitive nature it would be fun to win either way. So, what I said is really a commentary on the sports fans that will patronize this competition as a whole.
While this ideal may not be why you're voting for the Kings squad it is what might sway some others, or put them over the fence. So, after looking at the Heat dancers who I think the Kings dancers will meet in the finals if they get there, I said to compete do this. If you want to win, play by the rules. If you're not willing to, don't even bother. You're just fighting yourself.