W
West_Gunslinger16
Guest
Well, if we're going to get Marcus Camby we should get Brian Skinner again. He's obviously a better rebounder and blocker than Miller.
Thinking about the timing for trading Brad Miller, this could be one of the worst times ever to trade him. He has just showcased how bad he can be. So I don't think he will be traded over the summer when his value has bottomed out. I think it will be during the season, something like the way Webber was traded after getting the Player of the Month award where his value was probably at its highest.
bibbyweb said:
He did showcase how bad he is or can be. People still know he is a good shooter for big guy, but is very soft defensively. I think we can still see what is our there this summer for him and K9. I think his only chance to be o.k. with the team is obviously putting forth effort and also moving to the PF position and being backed by a big Center who tekes care of the rebounding/shoot blocking which he doesn't. Otherwise I don't see keeping him.
PFFFT!!
Starter
Brad? The same guy who on a interview with Grant said he only has to put up with reporters another 2 years? Looks like hes really looking forward to the 2 years that remains. Sound like a guy whos resignated the game of basketball. Im all for trading him or Bibby, but who will take them? They are both overpaid. Unless Petrie can pull some rabbits out of his hat, were stuck.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kings113 said:
Think the very interesting possible suitor in all this might be Chciago. They already know him. Desperately need a center + already have a rebounder/shotblocker to cover his pastiness. Its close to home for him. And a huge factor is that they can absorb his salary without having to match salaries back to us. Thus that opens up much more flexibility for us in trying to move him to the Bulls and maybe shed a little salary ourselves.
Throw all that together and we could potentially trade Brad to Chicago for one of their backup PGs and one of their #1s. We could even trade Brad and our #1 to them for that pick they got from the Knicks and maybe use it to snag an Aldridge or Thomas.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
This, just for kicks, is roughly $1 million in salary to Minn from working -- amazing what you can do witha team under the cap as facilitator:
Sacto
Out:
Miller
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
#1 pick (#19)
In:
Garnett
Chicago
Out:
Sweetney (ending)
#1 pick (from NY -- #1,#2,#3 most likely)
In:
Miller
#1 pick (#19)
Minnesota
Out:
Garnett
In:
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
Sweetney (ending)
#1 (#1,#2,#3 most likely)
Its just for kicks, but using Chicago's capspace, and filling their need for a center, you can actually construct a semi-reasonable Garnett offer centered around one of the top picks in the draft, a young guard (Cisco) and a young PF (Sweetney) + some ending contracts. Meanwhile both the Kings and Wolves shed some salary which ends up in Chicago in the person of their new center.
Throw in either Malik Allen (ending) From chicago, or Jason Hart (ending) from us, and the deal actually works $$$wise, and there are all sorts of other permutations.
Sacto
Out:
Miller
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
#1 pick (#19)
In:
Garnett
Chicago
Out:
Sweetney (ending)
#1 pick (from NY -- #1,#2,#3 most likely)
In:
Miller
#1 pick (#19)
Minnesota
Out:
Garnett
In:
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
Sweetney (ending)
#1 (#1,#2,#3 most likely)
Its just for kicks, but using Chicago's capspace, and filling their need for a center, you can actually construct a semi-reasonable Garnett offer centered around one of the top picks in the draft, a young guard (Cisco) and a young PF (Sweetney) + some ending contracts. Meanwhile both the Kings and Wolves shed some salary which ends up in Chicago in the person of their new center.
Throw in either Malik Allen (ending) From chicago, or Jason Hart (ending) from us, and the deal actually works $$$wise, and there are all sorts of other permutations.
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nbrans
All-Star
^I don't think there's enough incentive for the Bulls to facillitate that deal. Why not just trade the #1 to the Bulls for Garnett themselves? On the other hand, if the Bulls get Garnett for, say, the #1 pick and Luol Deng, Chandler might be expendible: Brad Miller and Garcia for Chandler and Gordon?
Otherwise, Toronto might be the better facilitator. They're looking for a PG and a center and they have cap space.
Otherwise, Toronto might be the better facilitator. They're looking for a PG and a center and they have cap space.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Unfortunately with Chicago's big playoff push, the chances of getting any of their core guys really went down. They will be looking to plug their holes, but its hard to see them giving away their top pieces for anything less than a slam dunk. Certianly Cisco + Brad for Chandler/Gordon doesn't move them ahead and robs them of all their interior presence.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Bricklayer said:
Quoting myself -- here's a permutation -- pull Thomas out of the deal. Send SAR to Chicago along with Miller, have Chicago send an extra $6-$7mil in salaries over to the Wolves (Harrington +...Duhon? Deng? Songaila? Gordon?). Sweetens everybody's pot. Chicago now has ample reason to do it -- they have created the frontcourt we have discussed here -- Brad, SAR, Chandler, and they have kept all but one of their smaller players. And they still have 2 #1s.
Meanwhile the Wolves get the additional youngster and avoid the Thomas contract.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Again, though, Chicago has all the cards with the Knicks' #1 pick and their young players, and if they wanted Garnett they could just get him themselves -- which has to be their first goal if Garnett is available. I mean, I can't see them wanting Brad Miller more than Garnett.
The Kings need to BEAT Chicago's best offer with a Garnett proposal, not rely on them to help them out.
nbrans
All-Star
Here's another wild and crazy idea:
Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Ronnie Price
Potapenko
#19
Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin
Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin
Minneosta incoming:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Potapenko
Kenny Thomas
#19
Philadelphia outgoing:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Philadelphia incoming:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Ronnie Price
NEW KINGS:
PG: TBD, Jaric
SG: Bonzi, Martin
SF: Artest, Martin, Monia
PF: KG, SAR
C: Miller, SAR, Griffin
Now, granted, that's a pretty big TBD, but it's also a pretty crazy good front line.
Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Ronnie Price
Potapenko
#19
Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin
Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin
Minneosta incoming:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Potapenko
Kenny Thomas
#19
Philadelphia outgoing:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Philadelphia incoming:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Ronnie Price
NEW KINGS:
PG: TBD, Jaric
SG: Bonzi, Martin
SF: Artest, Martin, Monia
PF: KG, SAR
C: Miller, SAR, Griffin
Now, granted, that's a pretty big TBD, but it's also a pretty crazy good front line.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nbrans said:
Chicago doesn't have to give up half its team to get those guys. Figure KG costs Chicago, at a minumum, their #1, Chandler, +1 of (Deng, Heinrich, Gordon etc.) And probably a bit more than that.
Reef/Miller costs them their #1, but also nets them a #1. And then the other player goign to Minny ay be as cheap as Songaila.
I would pursue Garnett myself if I were them, but if the end result is:
C-?
PF- Garnett
SF- Nocioni
OG- Heinrich
PG- Duhon
6th- Gordon
+ one #1
vs.
C-Miller
PF-Chandler
SF-Deng
OG-Heinrich
PG-Duhon
6th-SAR
7th-Gordon
8th-Nocioni
+two #1s
#2 might very well look more attractive.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Garnett for Gordon, Deng and #1 (Thomas/Aldridge) would probably get the trade done, leaving Chicago with:
C - Chandler/Sweetney
PF - Garnett/Songaila
SF - Nocioni
SG - TBD (Bonzi?)
PG - Hinrich/Gordon
Even with both Garnett and Chandler Chicago still has a ton of cap space to fill out the rest of the spots with free agents. Meanwhile, TWolves have instant cap room and three good young players.
I think the Kings are going to have to beat an offer of Gordon/Deng/#1 pick, which would take at least Bibby, and probably a third team. Especially since Chicago can make their own very attractive offer, I doubt they'd involve themselves as facilitators on principle alone.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Beyond your own seemingly insatiable need to have Bibby included in any and all trade talks, of what possible relevance is he to a trade using the Heinrich/Gordon/Duhon Chicago Bulls as the pivot foot?
Answer: he's probably not.
Answer: he's probably not.
Bballkingsrock
All-Star
nbrans said:
That would be really nice adn we could sign either Mike james or Jason Terry for the starting PG.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Obviously Chicago wouldn't want Bibby, which is why I suggested using Toronto as a pivot and not Chicago. Toronto has cap space, already has two extremely good young Pfs, needs a young PG and might be a better facilitator for a three team Kings/KG deal than Chicago.
If KG is on the block, Chicago is a COMPETITOR, not an ally. Find teams who KG wouldn't be as valuable to and then use them as partners.
It's my esteem of Bibby's ability and trade value that make me bring him into trade talks all the time. Miller isn't enough to land KG if he's available. Bibby and some other parts might be.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
You would have to think the Bulls are making a run for either Garnett or Jermaine this season. They have a likely top-5 pick, and can dangle a combination of Deng, Gordon, and Duhon. Plus they have the cap space to take on more salary than they give up. I would think they make a move for one of the two big guys, then use the rest of their cap space to extend their own core (Hinrich, Nocioni long term).
Thier other option, of course, is signing a couple lesser-tier free agents to shore up the PF spot (Al Harrington has been long rumored) and then moving to improve the C spot through trade. That's where I guess a deal for Brad would make sense.
Thier other option, of course, is signing a couple lesser-tier free agents to shore up the PF spot (Al Harrington has been long rumored) and then moving to improve the C spot through trade. That's where I guess a deal for Brad would make sense.
SacKings4Life21
Bench
Gorden starts... At least when I went to the game he did. KH Gorden backcourt
nbrans
All-Star
Something like this... it's far from perfect, but it could be a start:
Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson
#19
Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin
Mike James S&T @ $7 million
Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin
Minneosta incoming:
Mike Bibby
Charlie Villanueva
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson
Toronto outgoing:
Mike James S&T
Charlie Villanueva
Toronto incoming:
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
#19
New Kings:
PG: James/TBD
SG: Bonzi/Martin
SF: Artest/Martin
PF: SAR/Grififn
C: Garnett/Griffin/TBD
Toronto could go after Jason Terry with their cap space:
PG: Terry/Calderon
SG: Peterson/Garcia
SF: Gay (#5 pick)/Bonner
PF: Bosh
C: Miller/Sow
Minnesota:
PG: Bibby/Hudson
SG: McCants/Jaric
SF: Davis
PF: Villanueva/KT
C: Blount/Madsen
Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson
#19
Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin
Mike James S&T @ $7 million
Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin
Minneosta incoming:
Mike Bibby
Charlie Villanueva
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson
Toronto outgoing:
Mike James S&T
Charlie Villanueva
Toronto incoming:
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
#19
New Kings:
PG: James/TBD
SG: Bonzi/Martin
SF: Artest/Martin
PF: SAR/Grififn
C: Garnett/Griffin/TBD
Toronto could go after Jason Terry with their cap space:
PG: Terry/Calderon
SG: Peterson/Garcia
SF: Gay (#5 pick)/Bonner
PF: Bosh
C: Miller/Sow
Minnesota:
PG: Bibby/Hudson
SG: McCants/Jaric
SF: Davis
PF: Villanueva/KT
C: Blount/Madsen
