Ricky Rubio.....

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Rubio looks like garbage against grown men competeing for olympic gold. Sorry Ricky, but your draft stock just went DOWN.

Seriously, how many games did you watch? I've only seen one game, but I'm waiting until I get a few more under my belt to make an assessment. He did have a nice entry pass into the low post, and he did break the press on one occasion, but the results thus far have been mixed. We'll see.
 
Seriously, how many games did you watch? I've only seen one game, but I'm waiting until I get a few more under my belt to make an assessment. He did have a nice entry pass into the low post, and he did break the press on one occasion, but the results thus far have been mixed. We'll see.

I really think that his trouble breaking the press was his slow recongnition of it. Something that can be corrected. I agree, we just need to see more of him before making a decision.
 
I dont think speedy guards are all that of an exception anymore. Speed and Skill package like Chris Paul are rare, but if you look at the starting pg in the league; most of them are extremely fast. Off the top of my head: Tony Parker, Raymond Felton, Devin Harris, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, Mike Conley, TJ Ford. It is precisely why old school point guards like Mike Bibby are struggling.

I don't think that I said there wern't any speedy point guards. I said that speed and skill in one person at the point guard position was the exception.
 
Hi to all for my first message on the board ! Before all, i'm happy now to post on the forum (excuse me in advance for my english, cuz i'm a young 17 years old dude from France !)

BTW, I'm watchin' Ricky Rubio since his junior competition (sumethin like under 16...) when he was amazing : he drops 51pts, 24rbs 12ass in the final game against Russia and make a buzzer beater from halfcourt for the win (just like in a movie :cool:)

That kid have a gift, he's unbelievable, but for now he's a little bit unexperimented, he makes numbers mistakes (turnovers, fouls etc...) but he's talented and he's a warrior on the field.

I've just saw his game against China this morning (in France fo sho), it was just... Rubio ! In the last minutes he was the starting point guard (before Calderon et Navarro, s'il vous plait !), and did a hell defense ! He did too many little fouls and turnovers, but damn ! he did some passing skills awesome !

I think his stats against China can make a summary of the boy :

In 20 minutes : 1 point (0/4), 4 fouls et 4 turnovers... And 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 5 steals.

When he'll stop to be dispersé* and he'll be more experimented, he can big things for sure.

*I don't know how to said that in english :D, you know when a player has a lot of activy (in the game and mentaly) on the court but make numerous mistakes while make some genius action.
 
I'm intrigued by Rubio, but at the same time tempered by the recent failures of many next-big-thing European prospects. As nbrans mentioned with Adam Morrison, the "just trust me, this guy knows how to play" kind of player breaks one of two ways, and can get you fired based on whether draft or pass on him. If he becomes the next Larry Bird and you passed, you're an idiot for focusing on his physical limitations and overlooking his basketball know-how. If he becomes the next Danny Ferry and you drafted him #1, you're an idiot for overlooking his lack of the physical tools that make scouts drool.

I'd sure like to see a lot more of him against some NBA-calibar players before I consider selling out the store to target him as the cornerstone of our rebuild.


Adam Morrison is not European. He's American. And the only thing he has in common with Rubio is that he's white. It ends there. Don't even use them in the same sentence. The only reason people are likening their situations to eachother is because people are under the impression Rubio is poor athletically. He's not - at worst, he's average in NBA terms. This is a moot point, he will be a good player.


And by the way, nobody in this thread has said he will be a cornerstone of a franchise - he won't be. But he'll be a very good PG for a long time.
And I don't get it, why do you want to see him against NBA caliber players but not any other NBA prospect? :confused: He's already playing against better competition than he could dream of playing against in college in US.



Hi to all for my first message on the board ! Before all, i'm happy now to post on the forum (excuse me in advance for my english, cuz i'm a young 17 years old dude from France !)

BTW, I'm watchin' Ricky Rubio since his junior competition (sumethin like under 16...) when he was amazing : he drops 51pts, 24rbs 12ass in the final game against Russia and make a buzzer beater from halfcourt for the win (just like in a movie :cool:)

That kid have a gift, he's unbelievable, but for now he's a little bit unexperimented, he makes numbers mistakes (turnovers, fouls etc...) but he's talented and he's a warrior on the field.

I've just saw his game against China this morning (in France fo sho), it was just... Rubio ! In the last minutes he was the starting point guard (before Calderon et Navarro, s'il vous plait !), and did a hell defense ! He did too many little fouls and turnovers, but damn ! he did some passing skills awesome !

I think his stats against China can make a summary of the boy :

In 20 minutes : 1 point (0/4), 4 fouls et 4 turnovers... And 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 5 steals.

When he'll stop to be dispersé* and he'll be more experimented, he can big things for sure.

*I don't know how to said that in english :D, you know when a player has a lot of activy (in the game and mentaly) on the court but make numerous mistakes while make some genius action.

Hi FrenchNuts, welcome to KingsFans! I agree completely with you about Rubio, he is a special player.

Don't worry about your English, we still know what you mean. :)
 
Wow, just caught OT between Spain and China.

How can anyone say Rubio is slow with a straight face? Dude is quick, end of. He'll be absolutely fine in the NBA. He causes havok with his stealing ability, although he does gamble a little too much. It's amazing what he can do at just 17.

As far as I'm concerned he's just proven how high his ceiling is. Hopefully I'll get to see Spain vs. USA, and hopefully he gets some minutes. It will be tough for him if he does.
 
Hi to all for my first message on the board ! Before all, i'm happy now to post on the forum (excuse me in advance for my english, cuz i'm a young 17 years old dude from France !)
Welcome to kingsfans.com, FrenchNuts! :) No need to apologize for your English. I couldn't begin to post in French. Well, I could cheat and have my French friend post for me and pretend its me. ;)

When he'll stop to be dispersé* and he'll be more experimented, he can big things for sure.

*I don't know how to said that in english :D, you know when a player has a lot of activy (in the game and mentaly) on the court but make numerous mistakes while make some genius action.
I looked up dispersé. I think a good English translation might be "erratic." Experience can improve that issue. He's still pretty young, with plenty of time to improve.
 
Thx kennadog for "erratic" lol

As far as I'm concerned he's just proven how high his ceiling is. Hopefully I'll get to see Spain vs. USA, and hopefully he gets some minutes. It will be tough for him if he does.

Fo sure, he'll get minutes. He seems to be the second choices to Calderon at point guard position, and when they need to hard defense, he's always on the court. He plays more at this time because Navarro is very strugglin' in the competition.

What I like about him, he has no fear. Against China, with Navarro & Gasol on the court, he takes the shot for the win in regulary time.
 
Anybody have a chance to watch Spain vs. China? The Olympic programming isn't very clear/easy to find so I'm not sure if (or where) the game was broadcasted.

Anyways, looking at the box score, Ricky had a rough time making the basket (0 FG's) but had nice numbers in assists and steals. Watching him play and reading his scouting, he appears to lack confidence - or possess - a good jumpshot.

Also appears that Fernandez put on a show...good for Portland. Really looking forward to the US v Spain game...
 
I watched the game (against my better judgment at 3am) and Ricky basically won it for Spain. The box score doesn't show it, but he was flying all over the court in the 4th, causing all kinds of havoc. Made a couple bonehead plays as well, but overall I was amazed at the impact he had. It helps that China's guards are their weak point, but only Rubio seemed to take advantage.
 
Also appears that Fernandez put on a show...good for Portland. Really looking forward to the US v Spain game...

Rudy did a good game, he has a incredible activity in attack & D, IMO he'll be a Ginobili in the league.

I watched the game (against my better judgment at 3am) and Ricky basically won it for Spain. The box score doesn't show it, but he was flying all over the court in the 4th, causing all kinds of havoc. Made a couple bonehead plays as well, but overall I was amazed at the impact he had. It helps that China's guards are their weak point, but only Rubio seemed to take advantage.

He has a huge impact, and he's cleary a solid player of spain's rotation, only Pau Gasol & Rudy Fernandez have more importance than him. He just have to calm down his game and activity, he makes too many fouls and turnovers but he's only 17... But damn, when it's talking about some D, he's not joking (I've already to noticed that against Greece, 2nd to world championship 2006 & 4th to European Championship, with their duet of guard Papaloukas/Spanoulis). What I like about him, he's not a cocky player who want to kobebryant his line stat with points, he's really an all-around player but he shows he can have a huge impact in attack and defense without score.

You got to love his no look behind the pass for Gasol, or his alley oop again for him...
 
I'm really impressed with Rubio's defense, especially towards the end of the game. That game shouldn't even have went to overtime because Spain had an open layup if it wasn't for the horrible foul call on Rubio
 
I'd project him now as a 2nd round draft pick at best, he should stay in Spain at least 2- 3 more years before trying to make it in the NBA. I look forward to seeing more of him though through the tournament, he's fun to watch!

WHA WHA WHAAAAAA? You're kidding right? If he's a 2nd rounder I will give you the pin number to my bank account, and my ATM card.. (of course I will take all the money out and report the card stolen)
 
At the risk of getting killed by those worshiping at the altar of Rubio, I would like to give my prospective. Did he have an impact at the end of the game defensively? Yes. Did he make a couple of very nice passes? Yes. Did he convince me that he's a top five pick in the next draft? No. You can't just admire the the things you like about him, and ignore the the things you don't. He had 1 point, 4 assists, 4 turnovers, 4 rebounds, and 4 missed FG's in 21 minutes of play.

If our beloved Beno had those stats in a game, some of you would be hammering him to death. If I had to pick someone on Spain's team that is worthy of a top five pick it would be Fernandez, who of course is already in the NBA. All I'm saying is, lets wait and see how he playes against the US team before we anoint him the next coming.

Don't misunderstand me, I like some of the things I see in Rubio, and for a 17 year old, he already has some unique talents. But, whereas I don't see the Kings being desperate for a point guard, I wouldn't want to pass on perhaps better talent in another area because I've convinced myself that Rubio is something I've just got to have. Maybe someone should start a thread on just what the future needs of the team really are. Hopefully, a rational one.
 
At the risk of getting killed by those worshiping at the altar of Rubio, I would like to give my prospective. Did he have an impact at the end of the game defensively? Yes. Did he make a couple of very nice passes? Yes. Did he convince me that he's a top five pick in the next draft? No. You can't just admire the the things you like about him, and ignore the the things you don't. He had 1 point, 4 assists, 4 turnovers, 4 rebounds, and 4 missed FG's in 21 minutes of play.

If our beloved Beno had those stats in a game, some of you would be hammering him to death. If I had to pick someone on Spain's team that is worthy of a top five pick it would be Fernandez, who of course is already in the NBA. All I'm saying is, lets wait and see how he playes against the US team before we anoint him the next coming.

Don't misunderstand me, I like some of the things I see in Rubio, and for a 17 year old, he already has some unique talents. But, whereas I don't see the Kings being desperate for a point guard, I wouldn't want to pass on perhaps better talent in another area because I've convinced myself that Rubio is something I've just got to have. Maybe someone should start a thread on just what the future needs of the team really are. Hopefully, a rational one.


Nobody's going to kill you for stating your opinion. Nobody's even been agressive so I don't know why you'd feel reluctant.

Anyway, if you watched Spains games hoping to come away with a sense of seeing Rubio being selected top 5, that's just not fair. He is playing against the best players in the world, something NCAA players are not. Why hold him to a higher standard? Some of team USAs players haven't looked like top 5 picks so far, yet knowing how they've turned out, every single one of them would go top 5. He is not going to convince anyone of anything at this tournament, except maybe show how talented he is (and inexperienced on an international stage).

Again, nobody's ignored his flaws so I don't know why you'd even imply that. He does play erratic at times, he does gamble too much etc., but his positives far outweigh his negatives and that's why he's on the court for Spain in crunch-time.

As far as the comparisons to Beno, they're ridiculous. Beno is almost 10 years older than Rubio. Beno wasn't quarter the player Rubio is at 17. There's a reason there's so much hype behind Rubio and it's that nobody in Europe has ever been as good as Ricky at such a young age. Again, Fernandez is a very, very good player and can be like Manu in the NBA for the PTB, but he wasn't half the player Rubio is at 17. It's not even debatable. You can judge all you like whose better right now, but that's not what it's about. It's about who'll be better in the future, and while not guaranteed, everything points towards Rubio having a better future.

I dislike how you're waiting to judge him against team USA. IMO it has no bearing. He's still 17. He's still playing in a tournament where no higher ranked American college players (such as Griffin, Jrue) are playing. Obviously that's understandable, but if you don't hold them to such high standards, why do you hold Ricky to them? It baffles me. You're waiting to see how he performs against a team of the NBA's best. Yet you see it perfectly fine that you don't even think about it when judging American pre-NBA players. Tell me why that is? Ricky already plays against a higher level of competition than the likes of Derrick Rose played against in college (or whoever).

BTW, I respect your opinion, just trying to understand your viewpoint more. I'm not saying Rubio is a sure thing (although I think he's as close as they come) and I'm certainly not saying he'll be a superstar in the NBA (he won't be). I just don't understand why you're using the Olympics to judge him alone on his future in the NBA. Why not judge him how you judge college players in the US? Ricky is doing as well as all of those guys with the exception that he's playing at a higher level than all the college players.
 
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I'll chime in, since I'm waiting for the USA game to judge as well. I am not familiar with a majority of the European team players. I know Argentina as a team is pretty good, and Spain as a team is pretty good. I know all of team USA's players. I know their strengths, and their weaknesses. As such, I'll be able to more accurately compare what Rubio can do, because I have a baseline assessment of the kinds of players team USA has.

Does that mean I'll go bonkers when he goes 0-11 while being hammered by Kobe and LeBron all day? Probably not. Much like summer league, I'll be gauging his skill set against what I feel is the "control group," again, stated as such since I know what they bring. I can't get hyped up from watching them beat China, who had pretty weak guards and was a Yao Ming foul out from making the game much more interesting.

Is he just an "and1" streetballer, or does he have legitimate skills? I'll be able to see for myself soon. I just hope he gets more than 10 minutes of PT, or it'll be an INC.

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We tend to judge college players on how well they do in the NCAA tourney. This is his tourney, so to speak, at least in my eyes. You really can't say that he's playing at a higher level than college kids, either, considering many euro teams are filled with professionals, yes, but those professionals are players who are on the downside of their NBA careers as well as NCAAers who went undrafted, even though there are legitimate European starts on the teams.
 
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I'll chime in, since I'm waiting for the USA game to judge as well. I am not familiar with a majority of the European team players. I know Argentina as a team is pretty good, and Spain as a team is pretty good. I know all of team USA's players. I know their strengths, and their weaknesses. As such, I'll be able to more accurately compare what Rubio can do, because I have a baseline assessment of the kinds of players team USA has.

Does that mean I'll go bonkers when he goes 0-11 while being hammered by Kobe and LeBron all day? Probably not. Much like summer league, I'll be gauging his skill set against what I feel is the "control group," again, stated as such since I know what they bring. I can't get hyped up from watching them beat China, who had pretty weak guards and was a Yao Ming foul out from making the game much more interesting.

Is he just an "and1" streetballer, or does he have legitimate skills? I'll be able to see for myself soon. I just hope he gets more than 10 minutes of PT, or it'll be an INC.

A bit off topic, but when is that game? (USA Vs Spain)
 
Nobody's going to kill you for stating your opinion. Nobody's even been agressive so I don't know why you'd feel reluctant.

Anyway, if you watched Spains games hoping to come away with a sense of seeing Rubio being selected top 5, that's just not fair. He is playing against the best players in the world, something NCAA players are not. Why hold him to a higher standard? Some of team USAs players haven't looked like top 5 picks so far, yet knowing how they've turned out, every single one of them would go top 5. He is not going to convince anyone of anything at this tournament, except maybe show how talented he is (and inexperienced on an international stage).

Again, nobody's ignored his flaws so I don't know why you'd even imply that. He does play erratic at times, he does gamble too much etc., but his positives far outweigh his negatives and that's why he's on the court for Spain in crunch-time.

As far as the comparisons to Beno, they're ridiculous. Beno is almost 10 years older than Rubio. Beno wasn't quarter the player Rubio is at 17. There's a reason there's so much hype behind Rubio and it's that nobody in Europe has ever been as good as Ricky at such a young age. Again, Fernandez is a very, very good player and can be like Manu in the NBA for the PTB, but he wasn't half the player Rubio is at 17. It's not even debatable. You can judge all you like whose better right now, but that's not what it's about. It's about who'll be better in the future, and while not guaranteed, everything points towards Rubio having a better future.

I dislike how you're waiting to judge him against team USA. IMO it has no bearing. He's still 17. He's still playing in a tournament where no higher ranked American college players (such as Griffin, Jrue) are playing. Obviously that's understandable, but if you don't hold them to such high standards, why do you hold Ricky to them? It baffles me. You're waiting to see how he performs against a team of the NBA's best. Yet you see it perfectly fine that you don't even think about it when judging American pre-NBA players. Tell me why that is? Ricky already plays against a higher level of competition than the likes of Derrick Rose played against in college (or whoever).

BTW, I respect your opinion, just trying to understand your viewpoint more. I'm not saying Rubio is a sure thing (although I think he's as close as they come) and I'm certainly not saying he'll be a superstar in the NBA (he won't be). I just don't understand why you're using the Olympics to judge him alone on his future in the NBA. Why not judge him how you judge college players in the US? Ricky is doing as well as all of those guys with the exception that he's playing at a higher level than all the college players.

Maybe I should have explained myself better. First, I wasn't talking about you. I know you like him, but I believe you have been more than fair in you opinions, even to the extent that you've admitted that your biased to a degree. However, I believe that there were a couple of posts that came close to being over the top in thier enthusiasm.

Secondly, I want to see him play against the USA team, because the NBA is the standard we hold up for a player. Thus, I might be able to get a clearer picture of exactly where he's at talent wise. If he's terrible, I'm not going to condemm him. He is after all only 17 years old. However, I may come to the conclusion that he's better served staying in europe for another year or two. I think its better to be in europe playing every day, than sitting at the end of the bench in the NBA.

Thirdly, I guess I'm not convinced that we need to draft another point guard. Now at the end of this coming season, I may change my mind, but hopefully not. The Kings have money invested in Beno, so my preference is that he developes into our point guard of the future. But if we were to draft a point, I may be more inclined to someone like Holiday, who can play the point and the two. Now I say that without having seen him play, so take that for what its worth.

When I look at the team as its made up right now, and assuming that everything works out as planned in the future, the one place where I think we may need depth is behind Martin, or possibly Thompson, if Williams doesn't work out, which I'm inclined to think is the case.

My final thought on Rubio is, that if he turns out to be what you and others think he can be, and its our turn to pick and he's sitting there. Well, I always believe in taking the best player available, so I would pick him and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Dime Dropper, one last note. I forgot to address the college player issue you brought up. Here's the thing. I like to judge players on what I see, and not on some scouting report from DX or others. I can do that with the college players. I spend far too much time glued to my tv set watching the games live or from recordings. It drives my wife nuts.

I don't have that advantage with Rubio. Other than some film from youtube, which I place very little value on, this is my chance to see him. Believe me. I would much rather see him in the college setting against college players, but I can't. Thus, to see him against the USA team gives me a yardstick to measure with. That may not be fair, but its all I have at the moment.

Hey, he may surprise all of us. We know one thing for sure. He will be up for that game, and I would love to see him shine.
 
I see your point of view alot clearer now. I think one of the things we differ on is our views on the Kings PG situation - while I think Beno is fine short-term, I think there's no way Beno is the starting PG on a championship team unless there's some drastic improvement (which I just can't see). I could be wrong, but that's how I feel. I think PG is our weakest position in terms of hope for the future, but that's another issue.

Also, on Rubio ; I agree completely that he might be better off spending a year or two more in Europe. I certainly didn't mean to come across as thinking he should definitely commit this summer. My point is just that I think he'll end up being a very good PG, regardless of when he comes to the NBA.

One more thing. I know you haven't seen alot of Ricky (which completely sucks - trust me!), but try not to put too much stock into the Spain game vs. USA (or indeed the Olympics in general). Imagine how daunting it must be for him to have to go out and play against the best players in the world - at 17! :eek: It's really not a fair match and certainly not one I'd expect him to consistently win. I think all you can look for out of him in this game is flashes of what he can do. But then again, who knows, he's done some incredible stuff already so I wouldn't be surprised if he impresses.
 
I see your point of view alot clearer now. I think one of the things we differ on is our views on the Kings PG situation - while I think Beno is fine short-term, I think there's no way Beno is the starting PG on a championship team unless there's some drastic improvement (which I just can't see). I could be wrong, but that's how I feel. I think PG is our weakest position in terms of hope for the future, but that's another issue.

I like Beno and totally support his signing, but I agree that if there’s one position to target for future upgrade, it’s at PG. There are several touted prospects coming out in the next couple of years, some of them probably leaning more towards 2010, and most of them VERY young and physically sleight. You're probably going to have to sit on any one of them for a few years before you start seeing big returns. The one guy I’ve started seeing placed higher than Rubio on some lists is John Wall, who is going into his Senior HS season, so he may only be 17 too. If say we’re able to draft one of these guys or Holiday in 2010, it could easily be two or three years more before they’re ready to start carrying the PG load, at which point Beno’s five year deal that some are bemoaning is over or close to it.

I would argue that during a rebuild, even if you’re sort of hoping to lose games, you don’t want a player carrying the load at PG who isn’t ready. At any other position you can throw them out there and let them learn through struggle, but disarray at the PG position can hurt the development of your other players and team as a whole. Now’s the time (or soon), while there are plentiful prospects and we have a solid guy in place, to start targeting our PG of the upcoming decade. What are we going to call that decade anyway? The Tens? The Teens?
 
At the risk of getting killed by those worshiping at the altar of Rubio, I would like to give my prospective. Did he have an impact at the end of the game defensively? Yes. Did he make a couple of very nice passes? Yes. Did he convince me that he's a top five pick in the next draft? No. You can't just admire the the things you like about him, and ignore the the things you don't. He had 1 point, 4 assists, 4 turnovers, 4 rebounds, and 4 missed FG's in 21 minutes of play.

If our beloved Beno had those stats in a game, some of you would be hammering him to death. If I had to pick someone on Spain's team that is worthy of a top five pick it would be Fernandez, who of course is already in the NBA. All I'm saying is, lets wait and see how he playes against the US team before we anoint him the next coming.

Don't misunderstand me, I like some of the things I see in Rubio, and for a 17 year old, he already has some unique talents. But, whereas I don't see the Kings being desperate for a point guard, I wouldn't want to pass on perhaps better talent in another area because I've convinced myself that Rubio is something I've just got to have. Maybe someone should start a thread on just what the future needs of the team really are. Hopefully, a rational one.
You can't compare Beno to Rubio. Its just like comparing apples with oranges.

Quite simply Rubio is 17 year old with a lot of room for growth. He has made the squad of the world champions, a team that is very deep. Not only did he make the team but he is getting some real minutes.

On top of that, against China, Rubio sparked the comeback and the coach had great faith in the kid to keep him on the court when the result was very much in the balance and the game was on the line. The kid paid off the faith by being one of the major reasons why Spain won it in OT.

People forget that he is a 17 year old playing for his national team (who happen to be world champs and genuine medal chance) and getting some real minutes in that environment. To top it off, he doesn't look to be one bit out of his depth.
 
Again against Germany, 7pts 5rebs 3ass 2stls by Rubio in 12 minutes, his plays on court bringin' best spain period of this victory 72-59 vs Kaman & Nowit' (somethin' like a run of 16-3).

With Navarro playin' very bad, Rubio will have more and more responsability in his team.
 
Spain vs USA. No contest. Ricky Rubio - non factor. But then, no one else on the spanish team was a factor either. Good learning experience for Rubio. He found out you don't get up and body a pt guard like Paul. He gambles too much, but thats correctable. All in all, Rubio didn't have that bad a game when compared with everyone else on his team.

Gasol, the one who playes basketball, looked very frustrated, and rightly so. Calderon didn't have one of his best games, and Navarro needs a bigger hoop. Rudy F. looked pretty good again. He's pretty active without the ball and at least looked like he actually wanted to defend someone.

Back to Rubio. His man defense wasn't very good, but to his credit, he wasn't exactly guarding chopped liver. It was a pretty tough assignment for him, and other than playing the passing lanes for a couple of steals, he had no chance of keeping his man in front of him. It wasn't for lack of effort though. If they meet again down the road, hopefully he'll be a little wiser.
 
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