Random comments trade thread

[HereWeBoogie]

Speights is just as good as JT (without all the forced shots JT takes)

and he would sure be a hell of a lot better off the bench than Chuck Hayes

 

[Bricklayer]

Speights is just as good as JT (without all the forced shots JT takes)

and he would sure be a hell of a lot better off the bench than Chuck Hayes

The grass isn't greener, 01/22/13 version:

Marresse (I could shoot his mom) Speights 12-13:
14.5min 6.5pts (.429 .716) 4.7reb 0.5ast 0.2stl 0.7blk 0.9TO

Thomas Robinson 12-13:
15.2min 4.5pts (.426 .625) 4.3reb 0.7ast 0.5stl 0.4blk 1.2TO

Jason Thompson 12-13:
28.8min 10.8pts (.508 .676) 7.0reb 1.2ast 0.5stl 0.9blk 1.2TO

 

[Bballkingsrock]

The grass isn't greener, 01/22/13 version:

Marresse (I could shoot his mom) Speights 12-13:
14.5min 6.5pts (.429 .716) 4.7reb 0.5ast 0.2stl 0.7blk 0.9TO

Thomas Robinson 12-13:
15.2min 4.5pts (.426 .625) 4.3reb 0.7ast 0.5stl 0.4blk 1.2TO

Jason Thompson 12-13:
28.8min 10.8pts (.508 .676) 7.0reb 1.2ast 0.5stl 0.9blk 1.2TO

But you have to factor in that they have Marc Gasol and Zack taking all his points, boards, etc.

Better stats would be how he did on the 6ers.

 

[DesertFox]

But you have to factor in that they have Marc Gasol and Zack taking all his points, boards, etc.

Better stats would be how he did on the 6ers.

Not sure why. JT has Cuz doing the same thing. If anything, Speights should be scoring much more efficiently.

As for JT taking forced shots, he is shooting over 50%.

And while JT is no stud on D, Speights has struggled to get PT (at least in Philly) because of his bad D.

 

[Kingster]

Lakers claim they don't want back long term deals, but I suspect they will have to take back at least a little money becuase few teams have $19mil in enders sitting around.

We could get close to his number with:
Garcia $6.1mil (ender)
Brooks $3.3mil (player option/ender)
Johnson $2.8mil (ender)
Hayes $5.5mil (2 years)
---------------

but despite everything its hard for me to imagien them taking a package for Pau without getting at least one valuable little nugget back. TRob would make sense for them, but with his lower salary then you have to rework the whole thing, or be willing to take back $4mil in salary. While we have a pending ownership change.

But hey, you put together some package like that. Then you go scoop up the disgruntled Jermaine O'Neal, and your huge verteran laden frontcourt is:

6'11" DeMarcus Cousins
6'11" Jason Thompson
6'11" Pau Gasol
6'11" Jermaine O'Neal
+ either Hayes or TRob as designated midget

Reke is still here. Probably 2 of the three mini-chuckers. Probably Thornton. Let's go see if we can make some playoff chase noise.

No way do I include T-Robb in the deal. He's just starting to show flashes of being a very good player. Pau's on the downside of his career. Makes no sense to do that when you have such a young team. Now if you wanted to make a deal for Horford and include Robinson, that's another discussion.

 

[Hadlowe]

No way do I include T-Robb in the deal. He's just starting to show flashes of being a very good player. Pau's on the downside of his career. Makes no sense to do that when you have such a young team. Now if you wanted to make a deal for Horford and include Robinson, that's another discussion.

I really do think Pau is another Divac in disguise. The problem is that Cousins is not Webber. If anything, Pau and Cousins skillsets are duplicative and not complementary. That is not to say that it couldn't work. Pau could be a great mentor to Cousins by teaching him the low post in ways that Clifford Ray could not. I just wouldn't go all-in to get Pau here.

And, of course, the Lakers would never buy what we are selling. Pau for salary dump? They can find better offers and better players out there. They still want to make the playoffs this year, and our guys will not get them there.

 

[Bricklayer]

I really do think Pau is another Divac in disguise. The problem is that Cousins is not Webber. If anything, Pau and Cousins skillsets are duplicative and not complementary. That is not to say that it couldn't work. Pau could be a great mentor to Cousins by teaching him the low post in ways that Clifford Ray could not. I just wouldn't go all-in to get Pau here.

And, of course, the Lakers would never buy what we are selling. Pau for salary dump? They can find better offers and better players out there. They still want to make the playoffs this year, and our guys will not get them there.

Salary dump + #5 pick could actually be competiive, as the story is the Lakers don't want to take back any long term deals, and with the whoel thing falling apart, have to be looking to a rebuild here now.

 

[Kingster]

I really do think Pau is another Divac in disguise. The problem is that Cousins is not Webber. If anything, Pau and Cousins skillsets are duplicative and not complementary. That is not to say that it couldn't work. Pau could be a great mentor to Cousins by teaching him the low post in ways that Clifford Ray could not. I just wouldn't go all-in to get Pau here.

And, of course, the Lakers would never buy what we are selling. Pau for salary dump? They can find better offers and better players out there. They still want to make the playoffs this year, and our guys will not get them there.

I agree with you that Pau and Cousins are not complementary. I think from the beginning people had it right: Cousins needs an athletic lengthy shot blocker next to him.

I don't think, though, that Cousins needs Pau to teach him. Some of the better teachers are guys that didn't have the talent, and therfore had to diligently work on their skills. I've seen a lot of progress in the big men ever since Clifford Ray got here. In fact, I hope he stays after the ownership change.

 

[Hadlowe]

I agree with you that Pau and Cousins are not complementary. I think from the beginning people had it right: Cousins needs an athletic lengthy shot blocker next to him.

I don't think, though, that Cousins needs Pau to teach him. Some of the better teachers are guys that didn't have the talent, and therfore had to diligently work on their skills. I've seen a lot of progress in the big men ever since Clifford Ray got here. In fact, I hope he stays after the ownership change.

Possibly. I know that a lot of post players progress by leaps and bounds after going through Hakeem Olojuwon's training camps. Gasol's back to the basket game is among the best in the league, but how much of that he can pass on, I can only guess.

 

[Kingster]

Possibly. I know that a lot of post players progress by leaps and bounds after going through Hakeem Olojuwon's training camps. Gasol's back to the basket game is among the best in the league, but how much of that he can pass on, I can only guess.

Maybe Cousins and Robinson can go to Hakeem's camp. Have your cake and eat it too...

 

[GoodOldDouwe]

I agree with you that Pau and Cousins are not complementary. I think from the beginning people had it right: Cousins needs an athletic lengthy shot blocker next to him.

I don't think, though, that Cousins needs Pau to teach him. Some of the better teachers are guys that didn't have the talent, and therfore had to diligently work on their skills. I've seen a lot of progress in the big men ever since Clifford Ray got here. In fact, I hope he stays after the ownership change.

I don't know about this. On defense, yes we need a guy who's able to block shots and rebound the ball. But on offense, Cuz makes the majority of his points close to the basket, so you need a guy who's able to stretch the defense a bit. I think Pau - Cousins could work, both can score inside AND outside. And you get one of the best passing frontcourts in the league. So the only questionable things are Pau's defense and Smart, Pau doesn't fit in Smart's low-IQ offense(feed the ball to one guy and watch or just run).

 

[Kingster]

I don't know about this. On defense, yes we need a guy who's able to block shots and rebound the ball. But on offense, Cuz makes the majority of his points close to the basket, so you need a guy who's able to stretch the defense a bit. I think Pau - Cousins could work, both can score inside AND outside. And you get one of the best passing frontcourts in the league. So the only questionable things are Pau's defense and Smart, Pau doesn't fit in Smart's low-IQ offense(feed the ball to one guy and watch or just run).

But if defense isn't Cousins strength, do you want to sacrifice more defense to get more offense? Because Cousins plays well inside and outside, I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little on offense to get more interior D.

I know it's not an immediate fix, but Robinson is looking more and more like a guy that can fit with Cousins very well. He's not the quintissential shot blocker, but he can cover a lot of ground quickly from the weak side and get up in the air quickly. He also doesn't have that bad of an outside shot in his rookie year. If he just gets more consistent on the open 18 foot jumper, he could fit with Cousins nicely.

 

[TTown Kings]

JT is forcing shots? Hasn't really looked that way to me

 

[LWP777]

JT is forcing shots? Hasn't really looked that way to me

With the exception of the Charlotte game, JT has had a really bad 8 game stretch. He does have a tendency sometimes to force shots. I've noticed that at times the team will run plays for him and feed him the ball in the post. If he gets the ball too far from the basket it usually ends up being a total disaster. If he gets the ball fairly deep he can use his little jump hook and have some success. I attribute a lot of his bad shots to the poor coaching on the team. They should never run post plays for him when he's too far from the basket. There is just no reason to. There are a lot of other offensive options that are better than that.

He really needs to stick to shooting wide open jumpers 18 feet and in and being active around the rim with cleanup.

 

[jalfa]

He really needs to stick to shooting wide open jumpers 18 feet and in and being active around the rim with cleanup.

dunno. at the beginning of the season he actually looked pretty nice, taking advantage of smaller opposing players and the fact that interior defenses had to have Cuz as a priority. he usually has a physical advantage and was able to back down opponents even from quite far away from the basket. of course that has all disappeared overnight, but if he were to regain that November/December form, there's be no harm in him banging with weaker frontline players.

 

[bajaden]

With the exception of the Charlotte game, JT has had a really bad 8 game stretch. He does have a tendency sometimes to force shots. I've noticed that at times the team will run plays for him and feed him the ball in the post. If he gets the ball too far from the basket it usually ends up being a total disaster. If he gets the ball fairly deep he can use his little jump hook and have some success. I attribute a lot of his bad shots to the poor coaching on the team. They should never run post plays for him when he's too far from the basket. There is just no reason to. There are a lot of other offensive options that are better than that.

He really needs to stick to shooting wide open jumpers 18 feet and in and being active around the rim with cleanup.

I agree that of late, JT has hit a bad streak, but every player goes through some sort of slump during the season. But as for his shot selection, perception isn't always reality. This is from 82 games.

Jumpshot: Amounts to 54% of his shots taken. He shoots 38.7%
Close to basket: Amounts to 29% of his shots taken. He shoots 61.8%
Dunks: Amounts to 9% of his shots taken. He shoots 86.7%
Tips: Amounts to 8% of his shots taken. He shoots 55.2%

The last three listed combined as inside shots make up 46% of his shots, and he shoots 65.2% on inside shots. So while the perception may be that he more effective with the outside jumper, in reallity, its his inside game thats most effective.

 

[Kingster]

I agree that of late, JT has hit a bad streak, but every player goes through some sort of slump during the season. But as for his shot selection, perception isn't always reality. This is from 82 games.

Jumpshot: Amounts to 54% of his shots taken. He shoots 38.7%
Close to basket: Amounts to 29% of his shots taken. He shoots 61.8%
Dunks: Amounts to 9% of his shots taken. He shoots 86.7%
Tips: Amounts to 8% of his shots taken. He shoots 55.2%

The last three listed combined as inside shots make up 46% of his shots, and he shoots 65.2% on inside shots. So while the perception may be that he more effective with the outside jumper, in reallity, its his inside game thats most effective.

Thompson has not been good on D or rebounding for it seems like the last three weeks. It's like he's had a 3-week flu bug. Very odd. Maybe he senses that Robinson is going to be taking more minutes from him and he doesn't like it. I dunno...

 

[Bricklayer]

Thompson has not been good on D or rebounding for it seems like the last three weeks. It's like he's had a 3-week flu bug. Very odd. Maybe he senses that Robinson is going to be taking more minutes from him and he doesn't like it. I dunno...

3 weeks ago Robinson wasn't. And if JT was playing liek he was before 3 weeks ago Robinson really wouldn't. Jason has opened this door via this slump, not the other way around.

 

[King in England]

I enjoy these hypothetical trade threads. I am however, fairly inexperienced when it's comes to constructing viable scenarios. With that said i did have this trade in mind.

Incoming
J.J Redick
G. Ayon

Outgoing
Jimmer
A. Brooks

We do this to solve our guard problem and get a good guard in return that compliments Tyreke. I see Redick as a refined and experienced Jimmer. In the small minutes I've seen Ayon play he seemed like a nice rotation big with good height and passing skills.

Orlando are rebuilding and take a chance with Jimmer and hope he continues his development into a decent nba player. They also get a starting calibre PG in brooks.

 

[bajaden]

3 weeks ago Robinson wasn't. And if JT was playing liek he was before 3 weeks ago Robinson really wouldn't. Jason has opened this door via this slump, not the other way around.

I've noticed that T. Robb plays some of his best BB when he's on the floor with Cuz. This might not be a popular idea, especially with JT, but I'd like to see how starting T. Robb next to Cuz and Making JT the first big off the bench might work. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind a three man rotation of Cuz, T. Robb and JT. You could also switch JJ to the PF position. As you can see, I'm trying to limit Hayes minutes as much as possible. There's nothing wrong with his play, he's just not a good rebounder, and he's not much of a scoring threat. Nothing against him personally..

 

[bajaden]

I enjoy these hypothetical trade threads. I am however, fairly inexperienced when it's comes to constructing viable scenarios. With that said i did have this trade in mind.

Incoming
J.J Redick
G. Ayon

Outgoing
Jimmer
A. Brooks

We do this to solve our guard problem and get a good guard in return that compliments Tyreke. I see Redick as a refined and experienced Jimmer. In the small minutes I've seen Ayon play he seemed like a nice rotation big with good height and passing skills.

Orlando are rebuilding and take a chance with Jimmer and hope he continues his development into a decent nba player. They also get a starting calibre PG in brooks.

Redick is more of a good passing SG, than he is a PG. Although his passing is probably as good as any of our current PG's, and he turns the ball over less. If you want to trade Brooks, I'm fine with that, but I'm not ready to give up on Jimmer just yet.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Redick is more of a good passing SG, than he is a PG. Although his passing is probably as good as any of our current PG's, and he turns the ball over less. If you want to trade Brooks, I'm fine with that, but I'm not ready to give up on Jimmer just yet.

I agree. I have wrestled with the idea, and don't like the thought of seeing him with another team either. But with that said, I think it depends on what comes back our way. On another note, consider the following:
TO DEN: Thornton, Johnson, Thomas.
TO SAC: Chandler, Miller.

WHY? Denver has perhaps the deepest SF rotation in the league. That said, they have little money coming off in close season and have Chandler locked in for a long time. Miller is great, but it appears clear the team is looking to Lawson as the cornerstone PG. Miller is without question a great backup PG, but they could easily use a more affordable backup. Also, they need a defensive big, and we have one to spare that also adds an expiring in Johnson. Yeah, it stings losing IT, but it would clear up a few things immediately. Cousins/Thompson/Chandler/Miller/Evans as a starting line. Hayes/ThRob/Salmons/Brooks/Fredette as bench. Outlaw, Honeycutt, Garcia as long reserves (and a big expiring).

 

[DesertFox]

I agree. I have wrestled with the idea, and don't like the thought of seeing him with another team either. But with that said, I think it depends on what comes back our way. On another note, consider the following:
TO DEN: Thornton, Johnson, Thomas.
TO SAC: Chandler, Miller.

WHY? Denver has perhaps the deepest SF rotation in the league. That said, they have little money coming off in close season and have Chandler locked in for a long time. Miller is great, but it appears clear the team is looking to Lawson as the cornerstone PG. Miller is without question a great backup PG, but they could easily use a more affordable backup. Also, they need a defensive big, and we have one to spare that also adds an expiring in Johnson. Yeah, it stings losing IT, but it would clear up a few things immediately. Cousins/Thompson/Chandler/Miller/Evans as a starting line. Hayes/ThRob/Salmons/Brooks/Fredette as bench. Outlaw, Honeycutt, Garcia as long reserves (and a big expiring).

The Nuggets love Miller and how he plays off Lawson. I could see Karl finding a use for a little scorer though, he was a big Boykins fan. Brooks/Outlaw for Chandler works, maybe use Thornton/Brooks to take a flyer on Mozgov (who they're looking to trade) and their young guard Stone (a poor man's Reke).

I'm not a huge Chandler fan, but he can play some D and bump Salmons/Garcia down to the SG spot.

Evans/Salmons/Chandler/Trob/Cuz
IT/Jimmer/JJ/Hayes/JT
Stone/Garcia/Honeycutt/Outlaw/Mozgov

 

[bajaden]

The Nuggets love Miller and how he plays off Lawson. I could see Karl finding a use for a little scorer though, he was a big Boykins fan. Brooks/Outlaw for Chandler works, maybe use Thornton/Brooks to take a flyer on Mozgov (who they're looking to trade) and their young guard Stone (a poor man's Reke).

I'm not a huge Chandler fan, but he can play some D and bump Salmons/Garcia down to the SG spot.

Evans/Salmons/Chandler/Trob/Cuz
IT/Jimmer/JJ/Hayes/JT
Stone/Garcia/Honeycutt/Outlaw/Mozgov

Chandler's name has been bounced around this fourm for the last couple of years. He did show some talent when he first came into the league, and right now, he's buried along with a bunch of other players. I also like Jordan Hamiliton by the way. I think Hamiliton has better potential as a scorer, but Chandler is the best compromise between offense and defense. I agree on Miller, who I've always liked. I don't think Denver would mess with the chemistry they have now by moving Miller.

 

[Warhawk]

Rondo out for the season with a torn ACL in his right knee. Anyone still want to trade for him this year? ;-)

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Chandler's name has been bounced around this fourm for the last couple of years. He did show some talent when he first came into the league, and right now, he's buried along with a bunch of other players. I also like Jordan Hamiliton by the way. I think Hamiliton has better potential as a scorer, but Chandler is the best compromise between offense and defense. I agree on Miller, who I've always liked. I don't think Denver would mess with the chemistry they have now by moving Miller.

Didn't DEN have interest in JT at one point? They can use more size, and ThRob seems to really be coming into his own. Still, I think the contract might scare them off. MT gives them a big bench scoring guard. What I like about Chandler is D and shooting range, perfect for a 3, and price. Honestly, we can offer him a starting role and I think we would then be only a starting PG away from being vastly improved. The Mozgov idea is interesting. What about MT+JJ (with us maybe throwing in about $500k) for Mozgov and Chandler? They'd get a little more length and D since Mozgov has bad hands and is as low as they come on the depth chart, while keeping the bench scoring they covet. Would make their second unit McGee/Johnson or Randolph/Brewer/Miller/Thornton. Seems to add a lot of balance they may not miss by dealing Chandler, who right now is a stretch 2 and pegged behind Brewer and possibly Hamilton.

 

[Gilles]

Rondo out for the season with a torn ACL in his right knee. Anyone still want to trade for him this year? ;-)

Lets give them one of Kings' super PGs! I would take whatever first round picks they have.

 

[Spike]

Lets give them one of Kings' super PGs! I would take whatever second round picks they have.

Fixed.

 

[Gilles]

Ask for kingdom, then agree to anything they offer.

 

[Cwebb#4]

Risky deal here:

Kings receive:
SF Danny Granger
C Pau Gasol

Pacers receive:
SG Tyreke Evans
SF/SG John Salmons

Lakers receive:
G Jimmer Freddete
PG Aaron Brooks

*Scoff at the guards going to LA if you wish, but just remember, Steve Nash is an old man by NBA standards.