upinsmoke
All-Star
I knew I would see you here first brick lol. I stand by my trade for two major reasons
1. The team would benefit from it talent and financial wise.
2. Would rather not choose from this years draft class.
Random comments trade thread
- Thread starter macadocious
- Start date
I knew I would see you here first brick lol. I stand by my trade for two major reasons
1. The team would benefit from it talent and financial wise.
2. Would rather not choose from this years draft class.
1. How does this even help us financially? Williams makes more than Robinson. Given the great amount of run that Williams is seeing in Minnesota, I'm not even sure this helps talentwise.
2. Just because you don't see a good player in this year's draft class doesn't mean we don't get one. What if we (finally) win the lottery, but we traded away the protection on our pick to get...bustola Derrick Williams?
We should make moves if they make sense. It doesn't make sense to give up on a lottery pick before we even know what it is to get basically nothing.
upinsmoke
All-Star
High draft picks make high salaries so it does make financial sense.
KevinSalvadori
Bench
Okay, here goes. Random trades, meet your maker:
TO ORL:
SG Tyreke Evans
SF/SG Francisco Garcia
PG Jimmer Fredette (Oh no!!!)
TO SAC:
C Nicola Vucevic
SF Hedo Turkoglu
Why they do it: They are looking to escape from the luxury cap threshold and won't be doing it any time soon if they hope to resign Redick, as is rumored. The Magic can instantly wipe 11.5m off the books this summer with this deal, which could be huge for them in a period of rebuilding. No one will take Turkoglu without a little sweetener, and that price is Vucevic. While he is riding a hot hand, don't let that fool you- he's boxing above his weight and they also have Harrington, Davis, McRoberts, Ayon, and O'Quinn on the depth chart, plus most importantly, a high draft pick in a Center/PF deep draft. He is a solid piece next to DMC regardless, and exactly what he might need- a ferocious rebounding C who can occasionally find the nice pass and doesn't try to take scary shots. Kings give up Jimmer, which stings, but he's an ideal reserve guard (their second unit needs youth and scoring) for them behind Jameer.
C: Vucevic/Hayes
PF: Cousins/Thompson/Robinson
SF: Turkoglu/Johnson/Outlaw/Honeycutt
PG: Thomas/Brooks
SG: Thornton/Salmons
Johnson's expiring and Salmon's pay cut should help us have room to sign a pick, and Turk's contract expires right about the time you-know-who would need an extension.....should that option even exist.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
a trade to help us get in the playoffs
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adn7gc2
let me know what you guys think
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adn7gc2
let me know what you guys think
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I think its unrealistic to expect they will take on salary in the deal. We'll have to keep Outlaw.
I also think btw this belonng sin the random trade thread.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
I think its unrealistic to expect they will take on salary in the deal. We'll have to keep Outlaw.
I also think btw this belonng sin the random trade thread.
we have to be fair and give talent for talent. it would be hard to sacrifice outlaw but if we want lebron.. it means we'd have to give one of our best to getr done
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Even Thornton hasn't been consistent, though. Before he left with injury, his shooting was terrible for eons and there wasn't much else to his game.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
I don't have an actual trade to propose, but I think we need to do something to correct for the fact that we have so many little shooting guards and no real shot blockers. Are there any shot blockers around the league we can target (that we could realistically get)? Basically, is there any way we could turn 2 of Brooks, IT, and/or Jimmer into a shot blocking role player? We could include Thornton if the player coming back had some talent (though I like having Thornton off of the bench). I know defensive bigs/shot blockers come at a premium, but we're one of the worst shot blocking teams in the league. If we could clear up the log jam at the 2 guard spot, and shore up our front court defense, I think it would be a win-win.
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LWP777
Guest
This has been discussed in great depth around here. The problem is I don't think anybody would give up a quality shot blocker for a combo of IT/Brooks/Jimmer. I think at some point we are going to realize that either Thornton or Tyreke will need to be included in a deal to get something of quality back in return.
Why do you have to include Tyreke Evans?
We'll never be able to balance this team if you keep on losing key players in exchange for another one. As of now, Evans and Cousins with (having elite talents) are the main ingredient for this team to win more games. You don't want to lose any one of the two, lest you want to go back to the neverending early phase of rebuilding.
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LWP777
Guest
Because you're not going to get a quality shot blocking big man without giving up either Tyreke or Thornton. Nobody wants our trash. Also, I don't agree that Evans is an "elite" talent. It's his 4th year. He is worse than he was his rookie year and he's injury prone. He's a decent rotation plater but not somebody to build your franchise around.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm not even sure if you watch the games half the time.
I'm sorry, Reke has shown he's better in almsot every way this year than he was as a rookie. We just are a very stupid organization. If we lose him in some ways I will almost be amused to watch what happens around here when he blows up for the organization out there that noticed a 20-5-5 guy added a jumper and elite defense to the mix. Somehow I don't think a credible organization's response to that is going to be to smoether him in mini-chuckers, play him out of position, and saddle him with a bargain basement coach.
Decent rotation player...that's embarrassing.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
would it be more wise to lets say.. package that high draft pick with salmons contract in a salary dump than per se.. just giving it away with a nice red bow
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I don't often agree with Bricklayer, but, when I do, I agree 100%.
Tyreke obviously isn't on the level of Kevin Durant or LeBron James, but he could be on the same level as Russell Westbrook if he was used correctly and surrounded with a better mix of supporting talent.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
I don't often agree with Bricklayer, but, when I do, I agree 100%.
Tyreke obviously isn't on the level of Kevin Durant or LeBron James, but he could be on the same level as Russell Westbrook if he was used correctly and surrounded with a better mix of supporting talent.
yep. totally agree. he is gifted with incredible ball handling skills along with size and strength.
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LWP777
Guest
It's actually more embarrassing that you still think that he has developed a "jumper" and is a franchise guy. Look, I really like Tyreke. I think he's a great kid so that's why I lay off of him and I'm not as critical of him as I am DMC but, I'm sorry, he's nothing more than a solid rotational guy.
Will you at least agree that he is never going to be a leader? How can he be a franchise type player if he doesn't have leadership qualities in him? I really think is upside is somebody like a Rudy Gay, which isn't a bad thing IMO.
Couldn't agree with Brick more.......Tyreke is an elite talent and his man on man defense is the best on the team, one of the best handles, best finisher on the team, etc. but he is a decent rotation player. LWP777 has little to no idea of actual talent and/or kings basketball.
Didn't we just see one in Zack Randolph? No two players/people are alike dunno why we all expect the leaders of every nba team to be carbon copies of each other.
GoodOldDouwe
G-League
How much would it take to get Pau? He's not happy with his backup role and I think he could mesh well with Cuz. The only problem is defense in this situation, since both Cuz and Pau aren't the quickest guys on their feet, but hey since when is defense important for us?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Been watching that all year and pondering. The biggest thing (other than how much he has left in the tank) is just that in order to match $$ we would have to ship out a lot of contracts and its not obvious how we could get to his number with things the Lakers would like and still have enough left here. I have suggested various combinations, few of which I am entirely happy with, probably fewer still that the Lakers would be happy with.
But let's take these as kind of starting principles:
Pau earns $19mil
In all my atempts at packages it takes at least one of:
1) A power player, either JT ($5.3mil), TRob ($3.4mil), Hayes ($5.5mil)
2) A SF reserve type for them, either Salmons ($8.0), Cisco ($6.1mil), Johnson ($2.8mil)
3) A minichucker PG type to shore them up behind an old Nash, Brooks ($3.3mil), Jimmer ($2.4mil), Isaiah ($0.8mil)
and Thornton ($7.6mil) as a wildcard. Don't know why they'd want him wiht Kobe there, but more talented than any of those other pieces, and D'Antoni loves chuckers.
Then its mix and match sort of stuff, with a lot depending on what they are thinking about trying to compete now, trying to rebuild, trying to get D'Antoni pieces he likes, vs. just rying to get strong pieces and assuming the coach is temporary etc. Frankly because I am not sure it would work there are cetain guys there, JT etc. that I would be reluctant to part with. If you get Pau its to win now, so guys that are ready to help us win now become more valuable., and Cousins/Pau/JT looks liek a strong frontcourt on paper. Unfortunately those guys also happen to have the bigger contracts though.
And all of that is before you factor in the impedning sale, which could put a virtual lock on major big $$ trades until its completed.
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panda
G-League
I bet Kings could get Pau for Brooks, Hayes, Outlaw and Garcia. At least it worked on espn trade machine. It clears up the Lakers salary cap mess, gives them better depth for their running style and they don't know how to use Pau anyway. Cleans up the Kings rotation and brings a future hall of famer.
I know it seems unbalanced, but the Lakers have been lowering Pau's value with the constant ridicule and scapegoating since D'antoni arrived.
I know it seems unbalanced, but the Lakers have been lowering Pau's value with the constant ridicule and scapegoating since D'antoni arrived.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Given that the Lakers say they don't want long term money back, you swap out Outlaw there and reolace him with the more realistic TRob and that might be about as close as we could get (Cisco, Brooks, JJ are all enders).
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The biggest question is the first. How much does he have left in the tank. I know he's not playing well right now, but he simply doesn't fit what he's being asked to do. Pau plays his best when he's in the low post, and for that reason, I think he would fit well next to Cuz, who is very confortable in the high post. Playing down low requires less mobility out of Pau, and he's always been a good man to man low post player. Put him in the high post, and he becomes less effecient, and is susceptable to the quick PF's in the league.
However his age, and his salary make a trade less likely. Were already staring at Tyreke's new contract, or lack thereof. Like anything in life, there are things that you covet. The question is, whats the price and am I willing to pay it. The Kings are hardly in a, we need to win now scenario. Well, they are, but not in the same sense we think of it. I like Gasol, and I do think he would help stabilize our front court. But if we were to offer up a trade, I'd be willing to part with either Hayes or T. Robb, Salmons and Brooks. Of Hayes and T. Robb, Robinson would probably fit their style of play best. Brooks would be a nice change of pace player for them off the bench, and Salmons would be an experienced player that can play three positions if necessary.
I don't know if that works money wise, and I'm too lazy to go see, but I suspect it might require another throw in like Cisco, who would just be cannon fodder at this point.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Lakers claim they don't want back long term deals, but I suspect they will have to take back at least a little money becuase few teams have $19mil in enders sitting around.
We could get close to his number with:
Garcia $6.1mil (ender)
Brooks $3.3mil (player option/ender)
Johnson $2.8mil (ender)
Hayes $5.5mil (2 years)
---------------
but despite everything its hard for me to imagien them taking a package for Pau without getting at least one valuable little nugget back. TRob would make sense for them, but with his lower salary then you have to rework the whole thing, or be willing to take back $4mil in salary. While we have a pending ownership change.
But hey, you put together some package like that. Then you go scoop up the disgruntled Jermaine O'Neal, and your huge verteran laden frontcourt is:
6'11" DeMarcus Cousins
6'11" Jason Thompson
6'11" Pau Gasol
6'11" Jermaine O'Neal
+ either Hayes or TRob as designated midget
Reke is still here. Probably 2 of the three mini-chuckers. Probably Thornton. Let's go see if we can make some playoff chase noise.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's not just sending LA a decent big for depth(JT/Hayes) young prospect(s) (IT/Jimmer/TRob) or an expiring contract, or even a guy like MT who "might" be viewed as good value.. It's more about do we have what MDA would want for his system.
He doesn't want Pau as Pau is not a stretch 4 who's quick up and down the floor and spreads the defense. There's a reason Ryan Anderson has been rumored as an LA target this year. It's because he's a good shooting stretch 4. That's what MDA wants. He won't want Chuck next to Dwight. If he was inclined to even try a high post offense with Chuck at the elbow as a passer, he'd try Pau there who's better fit for it. Same for JT, who while a solid 3rd big and sometimes starting PF doesn't fit MDA's system. JJ has been disappointing and is a poor shooting forward who could swing between the 3 and 4, but that isn't attractive. Nor Is Trob at this point. If TRob could shoot and help them now, step in as a stretch 4 then maybe him, but LA isn't trading Pau for a project who might never learn to shoot.
Now maybe, and it's not likely, but maybe MDA would consider TRob as an Amare like project who can fly up and down the floor and be active around the glass off D12. So TRob, Cisco as an expiring or Salmons as a backup 2/3 to MWP/Kobe who could handle, or allow them to go with a big, defensive backcourt of Salmons/Kobe at time in the playoffs(w/ Nash would that happen though?) maybe it's a start, but not likely.
I just see no way this gets done unless LA does something stupid, which they have done and are in the process of doing again, by a) highering MDA to coach this roster and b) picking MDA's system over running a Pau/Dwight duo with Pau at the high post, so who knows, a lot of stupidity down there lately. It's just shocking to me that Pau/Bynum worked and somehow MDA has already convinced himself Pau/Dwight will never work and they can't even play at the same time. Prime example of being stubborn in your system and not willing to tailor it to your roster/talent. It's not like Pop avoided playing Robinson/Duncan at the same time either, and silly Pop, he actually won a ring going through them. Pau/Dwight would be a little different but to not try it is asinine.
He doesn't want Pau as Pau is not a stretch 4 who's quick up and down the floor and spreads the defense. There's a reason Ryan Anderson has been rumored as an LA target this year. It's because he's a good shooting stretch 4. That's what MDA wants. He won't want Chuck next to Dwight. If he was inclined to even try a high post offense with Chuck at the elbow as a passer, he'd try Pau there who's better fit for it. Same for JT, who while a solid 3rd big and sometimes starting PF doesn't fit MDA's system. JJ has been disappointing and is a poor shooting forward who could swing between the 3 and 4, but that isn't attractive. Nor Is Trob at this point. If TRob could shoot and help them now, step in as a stretch 4 then maybe him, but LA isn't trading Pau for a project who might never learn to shoot.
Now maybe, and it's not likely, but maybe MDA would consider TRob as an Amare like project who can fly up and down the floor and be active around the glass off D12. So TRob, Cisco as an expiring or Salmons as a backup 2/3 to MWP/Kobe who could handle, or allow them to go with a big, defensive backcourt of Salmons/Kobe at time in the playoffs(w/ Nash would that happen though?) maybe it's a start, but not likely.
I just see no way this gets done unless LA does something stupid, which they have done and are in the process of doing again, by a) highering MDA to coach this roster and b) picking MDA's system over running a Pau/Dwight duo with Pau at the high post, so who knows, a lot of stupidity down there lately. It's just shocking to me that Pau/Bynum worked and somehow MDA has already convinced himself Pau/Dwight will never work and they can't even play at the same time. Prime example of being stubborn in your system and not willing to tailor it to your roster/talent. It's not like Pop avoided playing Robinson/Duncan at the same time either, and silly Pop, he actually won a ring going through them. Pau/Dwight would be a little different but to not try it is asinine.
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HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
wow so the Grizzlies gave away Speights and Ellington and another guy for NOTHING. why couldnt we have gotten in on this deal. id like to have both those guys over a lot of the players on out team.
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/01/22/grizzlies-cavs-trade.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/01/22/grizzlies-cavs-trade.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Um, those guys really aren't that good. Don't confuse looking good against us for menaing anything.
besides, that was a straight salary dump type move with the receiving team jsut agreeing to take on moeny. Pretty obvious in our current situation that isn't happening. Maybe next year, if there is a next year.
