Playing the vets too much - and other stuff (split from game thread)
- Thread starter piksi
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gunks
Hall of Famer
Ah. Didnt know that. But does Williams have a tweaked ankle too?
-sigh...At least we got some expirings for Bibbs
Sorry, as I explained earlier, it's been 6 weeks or so since I watched a game.
I assume Shelden had to go massage Hawes' ankle or something, too...
About time!!!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I think Williams must have tweaked Reggie's ego, because at this point it is imminently apparent he is not going to get any development time under this coach. I had rather hoped that being officially eliminated from the playoffs would have ended the stupidity, but no such luck. Has anybody ever seen Reggie and Muss in the same room together? Actually that is insulting...to Muss. He hung on far too long himself, but that last month it was Cisco and Justin getting big minutes to prove themselves.
Finally. Stop playing the old guys already.
In other news, I love how the Bobcats have mind control over the Lakers.
Theus is NOT gonna tank a game that is close. And the fans who paid good money to attend the game deserved to see the best effort. It's different if we're on the road, if we're being blown out, etc. But to put Shelden Williams in would have done nothing but turn the fans against the team and there's no reason to ever do that.
You purists who want to discuss theory, etc. continually refuse to accept the obvious... the Kings must maintain a paying fan-base to survive the lean years. It means trying to win the home games so those who paid won't just quit paying. You may not agree with it, but I think it's the right thing to do. Reward at home and have lots of phantom injuries on the remaining road games.
You purists who want to discuss theory, etc. continually refuse to accept the obvious... the Kings must maintain a paying fan-base to survive the lean years. It means trying to win the home games so those who paid won't just quit paying. You may not agree with it, but I think it's the right thing to do. Reward at home and have lots of phantom injuries on the remaining road games.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We were officially eliminated after the Rockets game actually. Could not catch up -- could ony tie Golden State, and then lost on tiebreakers. So this game already did not matter for the playoffs (and the two teams played like it).
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I can't be the only one who noticed that we damn near "tanked" the game anyway with a bunch of worthless old rent-a-veterans who won't be wearing the jersey much longer.
Nor were there actually any fans in attendance -- seems that theory on what brings them out isn't working. In fact it is the very hopelessness of our stupid front office and coahcing staff which is continuing to erode what is left of the fanbase. People need HOPE. Mikki Moore is not hope. Anthony Johnson is not hope. Ron Artest is hope only in the sense of hope he goes away. No wins & no hope together = no fans. Nor should there be. You have to have one or the other. And no, "winning" an OT game against one of the two or three worst teams in basketball in late March after you have already been eliminated from the playoffs is less than irrelevant to the calcualtion. It means nothing and less than nothing (as it potentially hurts your franchise in a ew months).
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A few months ago, when injuries forced the younger players into games, or even starting positions, VF joined the rest of us in saying how much better the team was to watch. But I haven't been hearing that much lately. More the opposite.
And I think you're exactly right, Brick. Arco was full & loud when we sucked, because the Kings couldn't get much worse, and it seemed like there was nowhere to go but up. And it was full and loud when the Kings were good. What we have now is something we've never had before -- an extended downward trend, accompanied by changes which are mostly cost cutting.
And when we finally get a top-10 draft pick to play, he gets less PT than Cheik Samb (pick #51), less than 5 undrafted rookies, less MPG than a rookie who was waived.
That's shameful, and it's no fun to watch.
Rent-a-veterans who won't be wearing the jersey much longer? What are you talking about dude. I think Reggie and Geoff love their Mikkis, Kennys, Brads, etc. Look at how long we have had Kenny...
Maybe not Geoff, atleast he tried to add a young player to the team(S-Will).
We'll agree to disagree about several things.
One, there were fans in the building. I don't know what you expect, but at this point our attendance is better than some teams still heading for the playoffs.
Two, Mikki Moore brings heart and hustle and the fans who are paying good money to attend the games appreciate it. I've heard from a number of people who've been at games who talk about Mikki as being one of the bright spots because he's out there hustling.
I'd like some proof, if you wouldn't mind, that the fan base is further eroding because it's certainly not what I'm hearing. Yes, it's off from prior years but that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. We're not very good. The fans who are turning out are there for heart and hustle. And they walk into the arena, having paid their money, wanting to see their team win. Is it logical or good for the long-term plans? Maybe not but that's not the question people still going to the games are asking.
Hawes would most likely have played major minutes tonight had he not tweaked his ankle. Garcia and Douby saw minutes. The only player available who didn't see time was Shelden and I suspect it was for reasons he's clear about.
We're out of the playoffs; we're not very good; Bibby is gone and he was a major fan draw; etc. There are tons of reasons for fans to stay away in droves. The fact that the arena looked to me to be about 2/3 full (give or take) says Kings fans will still support the team. Arguing that they shouldn't just seems a bit bizarre to me. So, as I said, we'll continue to agree to disagree. And I'll continue to make plans to attend at least one more game.
No, Petrie got expiring contracts and a possible player in exchange for Bibby. I don't think Shelden Williams was the deal-maker.
Um, what? I was talking about the excitement when Beno was playing point, with Martin, Garcia, ??? and Hawes. Beno is hurt, Hawes got hurt tonight, and I'm still really on the fence about Shelden Williams. AND I was talking about games when Artest wasn't playing. I'm beyond sick and tired of watching him fluctuate between team player (rare but occasional) and "I can do it all myself" superplayer (way too common).
People talk as though Shelden Williams is all that and a bag of chips. Remember, he was pretty much riding the pine in Atlanta because hadn't worked out so he's a big question mark at this point. Being a top-10 draft pick is meaningless unless you actually live up to the potential. Kings fans of long standing should be well aware of how poorly top-10 draft picks can end up.
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
The only reason he was riding the pine in Atlanta was because Horford and Smith are both PFs. He wasn't going to get any time there. And we'll never know what he actually is until we see him on the court.
Entity
Hall of Famer
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Someone out there help an over-the-hill surfer with an agonizing question? How is it the Kings can go to LA and beat the Lakers, the #1 team in the NBA at the time, then come home the next week or so and nearly lose to one of the worst teams in the NBA.........AT HOME?
I guess we had Beno in LA but is he that much of a difference maker? Maybe so. But the Kings regularly lose to the bottom teams and have beaten EVERY division leading team at least once this year.
Brad is playing at an all-star level and Beno is nearly as well. Kevin is on-off more than I'd like but when he is on, he is awesome. Mikki is energized all the time so love him for that and does rebound better than anyone other than Brad (did I really say THAT???????). That leaves RonRon. Hmmm. How many games he's taken over has he actually won for the Kings?? Dam few I suspect. Is he as disruptive as it appears to me? Is he a reincarnation of a CWebb prima-donna? Guess I probably have that answer.
But losing regularly to the bottom dwellers then playing like a playoff team against the big boys at home. I really don't get it.
I guess we had Beno in LA but is he that much of a difference maker? Maybe so. But the Kings regularly lose to the bottom teams and have beaten EVERY division leading team at least once this year.
Brad is playing at an all-star level and Beno is nearly as well. Kevin is on-off more than I'd like but when he is on, he is awesome. Mikki is energized all the time so love him for that and does rebound better than anyone other than Brad (did I really say THAT???????). That leaves RonRon. Hmmm. How many games he's taken over has he actually won for the Kings?? Dam few I suspect. Is he as disruptive as it appears to me? Is he a reincarnation of a CWebb prima-donna? Guess I probably have that answer.
But losing regularly to the bottom dwellers then playing like a playoff team against the big boys at home. I really don't get it.
How can the Kings beat LA and almost lose to the Grizzlies?
1. Our roster is tired. There are a myriad of aches and pains that come and go, causing almost nightly shifts to the active roster.
2. It was LA. The Kings always get up for game against the Lakers. AND we had our full roster of starters healthy enough to play.
3. If anyone really had the answers to those questions, they'd be in a great position to either usurp Reggie's job or at least become a highly paid consultant.
1. Our roster is tired. There are a myriad of aches and pains that come and go, causing almost nightly shifts to the active roster.
2. It was LA. The Kings always get up for game against the Lakers. AND we had our full roster of starters healthy enough to play.
3. If anyone really had the answers to those questions, they'd be in a great position to either usurp Reggie's job or at least become a highly paid consultant.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think a lot of people can answer the question; but no coach can solve the problem. Management did the ad hoc assemblage of disjointed parts - young/old, athletic/nonathletic, motivated/unmotivated, crazy/sane. Theus has the happy challenge of attempting to weld them together with spit. And the interesting thing is that Theus is adopting the same multiple personality as his team - playing the young guys/not playing the young guys; conceding to Artest by allowing him to be a last minute addition to play in a game/preaching about the importance of developing the right culture on the basketball team. "To be or not to be?" THAT is the question for this team...
Sorry--late to be chiming in, but just got to the computer. I don't know what game you were watching, Brick, but I was one of 13,400 FANS that was at the Kings/Grizzlies game at Arco last night. They were up standing and cheering at the end of the regulation period and the overtime--they are FANS! They pay good money and love their team in good times and bad. When you think about what has transpired with this team this year and all of the injuries and a new coach and you can still draw that many fans, it is pretty remarkable especially when some of the contending teams cannot even draw 5,000 a game. Annie.
creAtivetfh
Starter
that is one thing i've noticed about going to a lot of games this year. We still have a lot of awesome fans. Hopefully we will be rewarded with some nice off season work by GP
lol I'm pretty sure every contending team draws way over 5k per game. I'm pretty sure they draw more people than we do also, no offense. Still for being a bad team I guess 13K isn't too bad.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If there were 13,400 fans in that arena half of them were doing a real good imitation of empty seats. Or maybe they were all hanging out in the concourse, I don't know.
The 13,433 number was the official number given--I didn't make it up. It seems to take the Sacramento fans about the middle to the end of the first quarter to make it to the game--but, when we watch on TV other teams, it seems much the same. Most of Arco arena's vacant seats are on the floor behind the baskets. So, will stick to my story, you can say what you want but I was there! My response was simply given to your inference that there weren't any FANS there. Annie.
I'm on the fence about Shelden Williams too, and realize that Hawes got hurt, and that Beno was out, but I wasn't talking about tonight's game specifically, I was talking about what's fun to watch in general, and what fans would want to see. Based on the comments about how fun the younger players were to watch, I don't think that a few extra wins (or losses) are going to make a big difference in attendance, or in the attitudes of fans. I think that more would like to see the kids playing hard, and playing for the team, with whatever outcome that led to. At least before, win or lose, we could watch them and think about how they'd be better next year. Now all we can do is to watch, and think about how they'll be even older and slower. Where's the fun in that?
I was happiest when Bibby and Artest were out, and it was Beno, Garcia, Salmons, Moore and Miller, with Martin coming off the bench. (That was before we really started to see glimpses of how good Hawes might be.) I would love if it could be Beno, Martin, Salmons, and some combination of Moore/Miller/Hawes with Garcia coming off the bench for the remainder of the year but I just don't see it happening.
If the team comes out and plays with energy, focus and heart, then I'm a very happy Kings fan. I think the real problem isn't whether or not Douby or Williams play. I think part of it is that a lot of us are starting to feel disconnected from the group of guys who all wear the same uniform. They're not a team right now. We see glimpses but nothing more.
I don't know about anyone else, of course, but I feel as though I'm grasping at straws to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING to be optimistic about because the alternative is to walk away - and I could no more do that to the team I've followed from the very beginning than I could stop breathing voluntarily.
I think most of the fans who post on this board are unhappy. Some are trying to put a good spin on it, while others are a lot more direct and saying it like it is, damn the fallout. I admit to being one of the former.
For all I know, Brickie could be right all the way down the line but it's so cold and clinical that it hurts to think about...
I hope that makes more sense than what we're seeing from the team right now. I guess it's not always possible to make sense out of nonsense.
If the team comes out and plays with energy, focus and heart, then I'm a very happy Kings fan. I think the real problem isn't whether or not Douby or Williams play. I think part of it is that a lot of us are starting to feel disconnected from the group of guys who all wear the same uniform. They're not a team right now. We see glimpses but nothing more.
I don't know about anyone else, of course, but I feel as though I'm grasping at straws to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING to be optimistic about because the alternative is to walk away - and I could no more do that to the team I've followed from the very beginning than I could stop breathing voluntarily.
I think most of the fans who post on this board are unhappy. Some are trying to put a good spin on it, while others are a lot more direct and saying it like it is, damn the fallout. I admit to being one of the former.
For all I know, Brickie could be right all the way down the line but it's so cold and clinical that it hurts to think about...
I hope that makes more sense than what we're seeing from the team right now. I guess it's not always possible to make sense out of nonsense.
bloom
Starter
Is it just me or does anybody else notice that when Quincy is in the game, the ball rarely rotates to him? It’s like he’s out there just to fill a spot. I think the rest of the guys need to pass to the guy and give him a little confidence. I’d love to see his dagger 3’s and I know he’s very capable of knocking those shots down. Even when he gets those wide open shots, I just see him, in a way, hesitating to shoot those, instead he, it reminds me of what Cisco used to do, try to go inside or do something else instead of taking the shot that he has available.
I see a problem with Sheldon. I’d like him to lose some pounds but tone up. I think he needs to improve his quickness and from what I’ve seen he seems slow…I really don’t think he’s going to get playing time this year. Is he even considered somebody for our future team? I don’t think so, it doesn’t seem like it.
I see a problem with Sheldon. I’d like him to lose some pounds but tone up. I think he needs to improve his quickness and from what I’ve seen he seems slow…I really don’t think he’s going to get playing time this year. Is he even considered somebody for our future team? I don’t think so, it doesn’t seem like it.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Over 5,000? Of course. But the Hornets have slightly lower average attendance so far this season. I don't know what's the matter with those folks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2008
What's funny is that you can see that on the road, the Kings are the 16th best draw, which gives us a boost in overall percentage.
Over 5,000? Of course. But the Hornets have slightly lower average attendance so far this season. I don't know what's the matter with those folks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2008
What's funny is that you can see that on the road, the Kings are the 16th best draw, which gives us a boost in overall percentage.
Eh I think New Orleans is still probably recovering from Hurricane Katrina. A bunch of the people were forced out to Houston, don't have houses to live in, or simply don't have the money to go to the games because they're still rebuilding their lives. But I see your point
kennadog
Dog On It!
New Orleans didn't have good attendance before Katrina. There's a reason the Jazz left (for great support in Utah!). NO just doesn't seem to be sports town.Eh I think New Orleans is still probably recovering from Hurricane Katrina. A bunch of the people were forced out to Houston, don't have houses to live in, or simply don't have the money to go to the games because they're still rebuilding their lives. But I see your point
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