Playing the vets too much - and other stuff (split from game thread)

[Spike]

Is it just me or does anybody else notice that when Quincy is in the game, the ball rarely rotates to him? It’s like he’s out there just to fill a spot. I think the rest of the guys need to pass to the guy and give him a little confidence. I’d love to see his dagger 3’s and I know he’s very capable of knocking those shots down. Even when he gets those wide open shots, I just see him, in a way, hesitating to shoot those, instead he, it reminds me of what Cisco used to do, try to go inside or do something else instead of taking the shot that he has available.

I see a problem with Sheldon. I’d like him to lose some pounds but tone up. I think he needs to improve his quickness and from what I’ve seen he seems slow…I really don’t think he’s going to get playing time this year. Is he even considered somebody for our future team? I don’t think so, it doesn’t seem like it.

Quincy shoots the ball as soon as he gets it, which may be one reason it doesn't rotate his way as much. I think if he nailed a good portion of those shots, he might see the ball/PT more often.

Shelden may have already peaked at Duke. He was the #5 pick, with a whole boatload of stats and titles backing him up. He lost out on minutes to a #3 pick, and a #17 pick, where theoretically, he should have been able to at least solidify himself into some sort of role. I don't think he's in the Kings' long-term plans. I guess I don't know if he ever was.

 

[Kingster]

Um, what? I was talking about the excitement when Beno was playing point, with Martin, Garcia, ??? and Hawes. Beno is hurt, Hawes got hurt tonight, and I'm still really on the fence about Shelden Williams. AND I was talking about games when Artest wasn't playing. I'm beyond sick and tired of watching him fluctuate between team player (rare but occasional) and "I can do it all myself" superplayer (way too common).

People talk as though Shelden Williams is all that and a bag of chips. Remember, he was pretty much riding the pine in Atlanta because hadn't worked out so he's a big question mark at this point. Being a top-10 draft pick is meaningless unless you actually live up to the potential. Kings fans of long standing should be well aware of how poorly top-10 draft picks can end up.

I'm with you on your current speculation on Williams. But I'm sure you'll agree that we haven't seen that much of him in order to really know how good he can or can't be. Even Reynolds was looking forward to playing Williams, but no, he doesn't play. Maybe Theus has already made up his mind and he thinks he can't play, no matter how much more experience he gets.

 

[Kingster]

Is it just me or does anybody else notice that when Quincy is in the game, the ball rarely rotates to him? It’s like he’s out there just to fill a spot. I think the rest of the guys need to pass to the guy and give him a little confidence. I’d love to see his dagger 3’s and I know he’s very capable of knocking those shots down. Even when he gets those wide open shots, I just see him, in a way, hesitating to shoot those, instead he, it reminds me of what Cisco used to do, try to go inside or do something else instead of taking the shot that he has available.

I see a problem with Sheldon. I’d like him to lose some pounds but tone up. I think he needs to improve his quickness and from what I’ve seen he seems slow…I really don’t think he’s going to get playing time this year. Is he even considered somebody for our future team? I don’t think so, it doesn’t seem like it.

I'd like to see both of them get two 10 minute stretches during the game, no matter what (more, in my dream-world). And if Theus doesn't like a particular thing they do during the game, well call a TO and instruct them, don't just yank them. I really think Theus has lost his patience toward the end of this season, and when you're coaching young guys you must have a lot of patience.

 

[VF21]

I'm with you on your current speculation on Williams. But I'm sure you'll agree that we haven't seen that much of him in order to really know how good he can or can't be. Even Reynolds was looking forward to playing Williams, but no, he doesn't play. Maybe Theus has already made up his mind and he thinks he can't play, no matter how much more experience he gets.

Yes, I do agree and after doing a lot of thinking, I've revised my opinion. The kids DO need to play. And Reggie needs to realize it's not about beating Musselman's record to show improvement (which is the only thing I can think of he might be shooting for).

Check my latest blog entry. I'm back on the "PLAY THE KIDS" bandwagon. Luckily, no one grabbed my seat during my short absence.

 

[Kingfanpaul]

Someone out there help an over-the-hill surfer with an agonizing question? How is it the Kings can go to LA and beat the Lakers, the #1 team in the NBA at the time, then come home the next week or so and nearly lose to one of the worst teams in the NBA.........AT HOME?

I guess we had Beno in LA but is he that much of a difference maker? Maybe so. But the Kings regularly lose to the bottom teams and have beaten EVERY division leading team at least once this year.

Brad is playing at an all-star level and Beno is nearly as well. Kevin is on-off more than I'd like but when he is on, he is awesome. Mikki is energized all the time so love him for that and does rebound better than anyone other than Brad (did I really say THAT???????). That leaves RonRon. Hmmm. How many games he's taken over has he actually won for the Kings?? Dam few I suspect. Is he as disruptive as it appears to me? Is he a reincarnation of a CWebb prima-donna? Guess I probably have that answer.

But losing regularly to the bottom dwellers then playing like a playoff team against the big boys at home. I really don't get it.

Maybe it because Ron decides to play against the good teams and suddenly becomes injured against the poor teams

 

[upinsmoke]

Is it just me or does anybody else notice that when Quincy is in the game, the ball rarely rotates to him? It’s like he’s out there just to fill a spot. I think the rest of the guys need to pass to the guy and give him a little confidence. I’d love to see his dagger 3’s and I know he’s very capable of knocking those shots down. Even when he gets those wide open shots, I just see him, in a way, hesitating to shoot those, instead he, it reminds me of what Cisco used to do, try to go inside or do something else instead of taking the shot that he has available.

I see a problem with Sheldon. I’d like him to lose some pounds but tone up. I think he needs to improve his quickness and from what I’ve seen he seems slow…I really don’t think he’s going to get playing time this year. Is he even considered somebody for our future team? I don’t think so, it doesn’t seem like it.

Maybe because douby is not very good. And just to remind everyone who wants to get a high draft pick, they can get pricey i would prefere to draft a prospect pg later in the draft. It is no secret there are good players who get overlooked.

 

[Bricklayer]

Maybe because douby is not very good. And just to remind everyone who wants to get a high draft pick, they can get pricey i would prefere to draft a prospect pg later in the draft. It is no secret there are good players who get overlooked.

1) they can get pricey? No. not really. That's why there is a rookie salary scale. The high end price for a top pick is still less than the MLE. Hmm...Mikki Moore for that money or a #1 pick, Mikki or a #1, hmm...let me think on that.

2) yes, everyone would of course love to draft good players who get overlooked, but your odds sink tremendously. You are almost on a blind luck system once you sink far enoough. Not only do you have to spot the 1 player in the next 20 guys who will be somebody in the league, but you have to count on every team ahead of you not spotting him first. If you draft #1 you are in control. Every player in the draft is available to you. After that your odds of you getting your guy begin to sink, and once you get out of the Top 10, plummet.

 

[bloom]

Quincy shoots the ball as soon as he gets it, which may be one reason it doesn't rotate his way as much. I think if he nailed a good portion of those shots, he might see the ball/PT more often.

Shelden may have already peaked at Duke. He was the #5 pick, with a whole boatload of stats and titles backing him up. He lost out on minutes to a #3 pick, and a #17 pick, where theoretically, he should have been able to at least solidify himself into some sort of role. I don't think he's in the Kings' long-term plans. I guess I don't know if he ever was.

Quincy has changed. Before he would shoot it and not pass or rarely pass (unless he was with Cisco, they would pass it to each other), but right now, I see a different player. He passes it off and really doesn't get to see it come back his way.

 

[upinsmoke]

1) they can get pricey? No. not really. That's why there is a rookie salary scale. The high end price for a top pick is still less than the MLE. Hmm...Mikki Moore for that money or a #1 pick, Mikki or a #1, hmm...let me think on that.

Okay but reality is there will be no top 10 pick this year and Mikki Moore is under contract. (sigh) I think GP could find another hidden gem this years draft. I will admit when GP drafted Kevin i thought to myself " who the heck is this skinny kid"

 

[Spike]

Fortunately the Kings won't be drafting that low. I understand it's not a top 3 pick, but it still "ain't bad."

 

[NewMonkey]

I'm with you on your current speculation on Williams. But I'm sure you'll agree that we haven't seen that much of him in order to really know how good he can or can't be. Even Reynolds was looking forward to playing Williams, but no, he doesn't play. Maybe Theus has already made up his mind and he thinks he can't play, no matter how much more experience he gets.

Agreed, and I think this is AMAZINGLY short sited on behalf of the coaching staff.

You know what? I don't care if Shelden Williams makes mistakes. I don't care if his man scores 50. We traded Mike Bibby for the guy, we're out of the playoffs, and I want to see him play. If he fails, so be it. Right now, he's not even being given a chance to do that. It's completely ridiculous.

 

[D13]

Agreed, and I think this is AMAZINGLY short sited on behalf of the coaching staff.

You know what? I don't care if Shelden Williams makes mistakes. I don't care if his man scores 50. We traded Mike Bibby for the guy, we're out of the playoffs, and I want to see him play. If he fails, so be it. Right now, he's not even being given a chance to do that. It's completely ridiculous.

I'm with you guys on this... when you put it like; we traded feakin' Bibby, lets see what we got in this kid... it's frustrating to see Theus trying to salvage meaningless wins at the expense of a possible future.

I don't miss watching a game, and at this point all can deduce is either Sheldon must not be so good since we won't play him (Petrie couldn't get us even one good guy???), or Reggie is not what we need in a future franchise coach...

 

[Entity]

your right we haven't seen him play but, Reggie has in practice against Moore I am sure. We all agree that Moore isn't that great and if Moore dominates Williams in practice we don't need him for the future so let him rot on the bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

your right we haven't seen him play but, Reggie has in practice against Moore I am sure. We all agree that Moore isn't that great and if Moore dominates Williams in practice we don't need him for the future so let him rot on the bench.

In logic that is what is called a tautology.

In other words you cannot question Reggue not playing Sheldon, because Reggie not playing Sheldon is obviously evidence that Sheldon cannot play.

Put more simply: you cannot question Reggie.

I do not accept that proposition.

It may in fact turn out to be the case that Sheldon is not good enough -- I have not been terribly high on him and despite the normal Jerry Reynolds stupidity about height not mattering, think he may jsut be too stubby and groundbound to be able to consistently impact things inside at the NBA level. But oyu are never going to know unless oyu give him an opportunity. And there is NO excuse not to give him an opportuity with the playoffs out of reach, and even Reggie's maniacal pursuit of ".500" (which just...I mean give me a break) is almost surely out of reach. This is precisely the time, when all aroudn the league teams out of it are seeing what they have int heir kids so they can make informed decisions in the offseason. This isn't chasing rainbows time.

 

[tyrant]

win or go home




obviously not playoffs, but if we're going to play our starters as if it were the beginning of the season then WIN the games. we havent hit .500 all season and we wont hit it now. especially playing some of these teams that are making the playoffs and are worried about positioning. im all for our starters only getting 15 minutes a game each. i dont care who you are. artest, miller, kevin martin. 15 MINUTES.

 

[bench_blob]

I think Williams must have tweaked Reggie's ego, because at this point it is imminently apparent he is not going to get any development time under this coach. I had rather hoped that being officially eliminated from the playoffs would have ended the stupidity, but no such luck. Has anybody ever seen Reggie and Muss in the same room together? Actually that is insulting...to Muss. He hung on far too long himself, but that last month it was Cisco and Justin getting big minutes to prove themselves.

What is your point? Reggie has done a GREAT job this year keeping the guys competitive with an injury depleted roster. Only a few times has the team got run out of the gym or mailed it in. Last year was boring, dull, barely competitive basketball. Our record may be comparable but games have been more entertaining.

And Reggie will play a youngster. Hawes is 19 years and his minutes have increased. Douby and Williams don't see court time b/c they have NO GAME. It's that simple. It's obvious to any astute observer they have marginal skills and questionable talent. Prove it in practice first if you want to play in the real games. Just like Hawes did...

Here's a quote from Reggie that sums it all up for you (courtesy of Sam Amick's blog):

“My professional opinion is that we know what Quincy can do. I know what Quincy can do. Whether it’s in short spurts or extended minutes, there’s no doubt in my mind who Quincy is as a player, and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I just know who he is as a player.

And with regards to Quincy and Williams:

".... it’s very hard to put guys in a game that’s going well and you put them in the game and the game goes south. What am I supposed to do?"

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/

 

[bench_blob]

win or go home




obviously not playoffs, but if we're going to play our starters as if it were the beginning of the season then WIN the games. we havent hit .500 all season and we wont hit it now. especially playing some of these teams that are making the playoffs and are worried about positioning. im all for our starters only getting 15 minutes a game each. i dont care who you are. artest, miller, kevin martin. 15 MINUTES.

Don't you owe a little more to the Arco fans than trotting out your scrubs and getting routed by 45 on your home court? Putting in a line-up of Anthony Johnson, Sheldon Williams, that other guy from the Hawks who's name escapes me, Quincy Douby and anybody else would fall over each other trying to score 2 baskets on consecutive possessions, let alone be competitive for 48 minutes.

There's something called competitive spirit, and professional pride. Look it up bro'.

 

[tyrant]

What is your point? Reggie has done a GREAT job this year keeping the guys competitive with an injury depleted roster. Only a few times has the team got run out of the gym or mailed it in. Last year was boring, dull, barely competitive basketball. Our record may be comparable but games have been more entertaining.

And Reggie will play a youngster. Hawes is 19 years and his minutes have increased. Douby and Williams don't see court time b/c they have NO GAME. It's that simple. It's obvious to any astute observer they have marginal skills and questionable talent. Prove it in practice first if you want to play in the real games. Just like Hawes did...

Here's a quote from Reggie that sums it all up for you (courtesy of Sam Amick's blog):

“My professional opinion is that we know what Quincy can do. I know what Quincy can do. Whether it’s in short spurts or extended minutes, there’s no doubt in my mind who Quincy is as a player, and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I just know who he is as a player.

And with regards to Quincy and Williams:

".... it’s very hard to put guys in a game that’s going well and you put them in the game and the game goes south. What am I supposed to do?"

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/

i dont think you're aware (therefore could be infected) of this common disease i like to call the blind chicken. how are the games more competitive than last year when we have the same crappy record? you lose a series 1-4 and lose the 4 games by 20 each. then you play the same team and you lose 1-4 again but lose the games by 5 each. does that make you a better team? no. i agree with brick. our last 2 coaches have been amazingly stupid. players have to develop. they're not gona drop 30 in their 4 minutes a game.

im sorry, but our games go sour no matter who we put on the floor. its been that way for years

 

[tyrant]

Don't you owe a little more to the Arco fans than trotting out your scrubs and getting routed by 45 on your home court? Putting in a line-up of Anthony Johnson, Sheldon Williams, that other guy from the Hawks who's name escapes me, Quincy Douby and anybody else would fall over each other trying to score 2 baskets on consecutive possessions, let alone be competitive for 48 minutes.

There's something called competitive spirit, and professional pride. Look it up bro'.

i understand your concern. but watching young guys play and possibly learn something is more important than watching theus coach. he's not very good at the NBA level if you didnt notice. OUR PLAYERS arent even good at the NBA level if you didnt notice. 2 or 3 of em. i would rather lose with the excuse of "our younger guys are devloping" rather lose with an excuse like "moore misses another baby hook shot, or artest shooting us out of the game, or the inbounds play couldn't be executed by mikki butterfingers moore and anthony johnson"

 

[Warhawk]

i dont think you're aware (therefore could be infected) of this common disease i like to call the blind chicken. how are the games more competitive than last year when we have the same crappy record? you lose a series 1-4 and lose the 4 games by 20 each. then you play the same team and you lose 1-4 again but lose the games by 5 each. does that make you a better team? no. i agree with brick. our last 2 coaches have been amazingly stupid. players have to develop. they're not gona drop 30 in their 4 minutes a game.

im sorry, but our games go sour no matter who we put on the floor. its been that way for years

Actually, I think it does.

The players are into the game, the crowd is excited, it's a better game.

Let me give you an example: say my son's Tball team plays against the Oakland A's and loses 500-0 (mercy stoppage of play ). The River Cats play the A's and lose 6-2.

Are the River Cats a better team than my son's Tball team? By your definition, no, because they still lost. By any other definition, yes, by far, they are a better team.

 

[tyrant]

Actually, I think it does.

The players are into the game, the crowd is excited, it's a better game.

Let me give you an example: say my son's Tball team plays against the Oakland A's and loses 500-0 (mercy stoppage of play ). The River Cats play the A's and lose 6-2.

Are the River Cats a better team than my son's Tball team? By your definition, no, because they still lost. By any other definition, yes, by far, they are a better team.

you're doing this on purpose arent you

 

[kennadog]

you're doing this on purpose arent you

and you have no purpose?

 

[bench_blob]

i understand your concern. but watching young guys play and possibly learn something is more important than watching theus coach. he's not very good at the NBA level if you didnt notice. OUR PLAYERS arent even good at the NBA level if you didnt notice. 2 or 3 of em. i would rather lose with the excuse of "our younger guys are devloping" rather lose with an excuse like "moore misses another baby hook shot, or artest shooting us out of the game, or the inbounds play couldn't be executed by mikki butterfingers moore and anthony johnson"

It's not important for Scrub #1 (Quincy) and Scrub #2 (Williams) to get P.T. if you do not envision them as part of your future! Sheldon Williams was not a player we wanted, we had to take him to unload Bibby. Geoff likes big man with skillz ( a la Vlade, B Miller, and Hawes), and Shelden has none.

And it's ludicrous to say Quincy Douby has NOT been given his chance. (1) Bibby was out. He could not take those minutes. (2) Beno was out. He could not take those minutes. (3) K-Mart was out. He could not take those minutes.

It sets bad precedent to give a guy court time when it's unearned. Quincy has been a BIG disappointment this year, and giving him charity minutes at this point is not going to change that fact.

 

[tyrant]

i provide logic. thats not dependent on other peoples ideas. im not biting off them. i dont make derranged comments like "we're a better team than last year because the games are more exciting". losing is losing. not intended for you blench blob. but as for your post though, quincy deserves minutes. if you're not gona play him, cut him. simple. why is anthony johnson playing? i wouldnt give a god dern if our young guys couldnt get any minutes if our starting 5 was anyting like 2002. but giving minutes to anthony johnson? mikki moore? guys that have no business on a championship team. just crazy

 

[Warhawk]

i provide logic. thats not dependent on other peoples ideas. im not biting off them. i dont make derranged comments like "we're a better team than last year because the games are more exciting". losing is losing. not intended for you blench blob. but as for your post though, quincy deserves minutes. if you're not gona play him, cut him. simple. why is anthony johnson playing? i wouldnt give a god dern if our young guys couldnt get any minutes if our starting 5 was anyting like 2002. but giving minutes to anthony johnson? mikki moore? guys that have no business on a championship team. just crazy

Debatable, but I'm not going to get into it with you.

Yes, losing stinks, but I'd much rather have an exciting losing team than one made of zombies like last year. This team is more fun to watch and will end up with a better record than last year. It's been a better team than what we had with Muss.

Is that your solution - cut everyone who doesn't play significant minutes? That's logical. Exactly who do we bring in with no trading pieces and no $$$ because we are still paying their salaries after we cut them?

Uh, we aren't a championship team, in case you haven't noticed. And waving your magic wand and sprinkling pixie dust in a circle while clicking your ruby slippers together won't make this roster into one, no matter how much you b**** and moan.

 

[VF21]

i provide logic. thats not dependent on other peoples ideas. im not biting off them. i dont make derranged comments like "we're a better team than last year because the games are more exciting". losing is losing. not intended for you blench blob. but as for your post though, quincy deserves minutes. if you're not gona play him, cut him. simple. why is anthony johnson playing? i wouldnt give a god dern if our young guys couldnt get any minutes if our starting 5 was anyting like 2002. but giving minutes to anthony johnson? mikki moore? guys that have no business on a championship team. just crazy

Oh wait...

You're serious? YOU provide logic? Yeah, and the Giant Pumpkin provides snacks at Halloween.

Once again, you're acting as though you and you alone are the speaker of truth when, in all actuality, all you're doing is spouting the same tired rhetoric you've spewed for a very long time. The only difference is some of the names have changed.

If you don't enjoy watching the games, QUIT. If you don't like reading comments by people who still find some enjoyment in it, skip to the next comment.

This got very old a long time ago.

 

[tyrant]

Debatable, but I'm not going to get into it with you.

Yes, losing stinks, but I'd much rather have an exciting losing team than one made of zombies like last year. This team is more fun to watch and will end up with a better record than last year. It's been a better team than what we had with Muss.

Is that your solution - cut everyone who doesn't play significant minutes? That's logical. Exactly who do we bring in with no trading pieces and no $$$ because we are still paying their salaries after we cut them?

Uh, we aren't a championship team, in case you haven't noticed. And waving your magic wand and sprinkling pixie dust in a circle while clicking your ruby slippers together won't make this roster into one, no matter how much you b**** and moan.

sigh, i didnt say cut everyone on the team. if theus or the kings GM really believe that quincy doesnt have what it takes then send him to the d-league. but the guy hasnt seen much floor time and he's still very young. and of course we're not on a championship team. but i was implying that if we ARE going to be one in the future players like moore and johnson wouldnt be in the steady rotation. they have no business on the court. i dont know what you're trying to squeeze out of my posts

 

[Warhawk]

Oh wait...

You're serious?

Unfortunately, I think he is.....

 

[tyrant]

Oh wait...

You're serious? YOU provide logic? Yeah, and the Giant Pumpkin provides snacks at Halloween.

Once again, you're acting as though you and you alone are the speaker of truth when, in all actuality, all you're doing is spouting the same tired rhetoric you've spewed for a very long time. The only difference is some of the names have changed.

If you don't enjoy watching the games, QUIT. If you don't like reading comments by people who still find some enjoyment in it, skip to the next comment.

This got very old a long time ago.

im posting comments. something we all the right to do without being made fun of. im not "spewing" random comments or the same "rhetoric" statements. ill state the facts and im not going to dumb it down for anyone.

 

[Warhawk]

sigh, i didnt say cut everyone on the team. if theus or the kings GM really believe that quincy doesnt have what it takes then send him to the d-league. but the guy hasnt seen much floor time and he's still very young. and of course we're not on a championship team. but i was implying that if we ARE going to be one in the future players like moore and johnson wouldnt be in the steady rotation. they have no business on the court. i dont know what you're trying to squeeze out of my posts

Well, which is it? Cut him or send him to the D league? Make up your mind.

But we aren't. And they are. Wishing them away at this point doesn't work too well. And, news flash, Q isn't much of a point guard. Neither is KT. Playing either of them at point isn't going to make your team better....