Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]

[Kingster]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but we've painted ourselves in a corner during these past two years such to the point that we just can't risk it. Drafting for talent vs. need right now would still leave us with all of those holes you mentioned, except with a rookie who may or may not help us at a time when we need it.
Do you think Mudiay can contribute now? If so, then it's not as big an issue, but we just can't afford the chance, when we're better off using our available assets to plug a hole at the PF or SG position.
If we missed, in two years we'd be replacing Cousins as well. I'd rather take the safe route. WCS, if he's available, and if not, trade the pick to plug a hole. If that avenue is exhausted, THEN I think about random potential. We're not building from scratch; we're trying to build around Cousins and win now.

They've got to make trades and FA acquisitions to remedy the holes. Drafting for need is the worst possible thing they can do. We're all focused on the draft to make this team better because the draft is coming up soon. It's doubtful any rookie is going to have much of an immediate significant impact. Get the best possible player in the draft; otherwise, we'll be having many conversations in the future on why exactly we passed on quality instead of need. Also, there is a risk with any of these rookies that are in the mix, unless you just want to trade the pick for a mediocre vet; even then there's the chance that the pick you just traded is going to turn into an outstanding player whereas the mediocre vet might not contribute as much to winning as you think, so the opportunity cost could be great. There's no such thing as riskless draft. WCS is no different - you pick him you're taking a chance, just like any other pick in the group that's being talked about.

PS The Cousins factor is important, but to panic over Cousins isn't going to make this team better longer term. We'll just end up without Cousins and a bunch of mediocre vets on the roster. My personal belief is that this notion that Cousins can be surrounded with mediocre but complementary talent and have a playoff team isn't correct.

 

[Chupacabra]

Perhaps because the idea of drafting 3 straight SGs in the lottery is kind of something from a bad comedy sketch.

I was thinking more like " 6'8 and athletic, tall skilled wing player".

 

[lawlman91]

No, it's brilliant. When everyone else zigs, you zag!

#4MovesAhead

 

[randymoss1881]

Cameron Paybe struggled to finish at the rim in the ohio vally conference. He also can't get to the ft line abd his defense sucks. A pg that can't get to the rim and the ft line has a caped ceiling dude won't be an all star like some think. If Mudiya and WCS are gone you take Winslow and move on

 

[Dime Dropper]

Yeah, I'm not near as much of a fan of Payne as I was Lilliard and Peyton (not that I was either of those guys biggest proponents, but I certainly liked them). With Payne, I'm not saying I think he'll be a bust, I just don't know. He seems solid in all aspects, but not sure if it's enough to make a mark. I reserve the right to change this opinion as workouts take place, but at the moment, colour me neutral.

With Lilliard, you had the clear athleticism he showed in workouts, and his shooting ability. He also had the personality/character/work ethic. Peyton had the size, athleticism, defense and raw skills. Payne has decent size, solid shooting and scoring ability, and is no doubt a very solid passer with good vision. Maybe his workouts will show him to be more explosive, or will show him to have that something worth gambling on.

I like Mudiay. I get the Robinson comparisons, but Robinson was always a tweener with questionable skills (I was certainly wrong about him, I thought he'd be good) but Mudiay is different. He has elite size for his position, and all the athleticism and skills to go with it, with only a questionable shot. I don't think his shot is broken though. And he's already a good defender, with the potential to be an excellent one. I think he's dropping due to the fact that he played in China, which is a fair point. But at number 6, he's the type of pick who could alter your franchise. Lets not forget Cuz went to us at 5 due to stupid concerns. Now Mudiay is nowhere near Cuz' level, even at the same point in their careers as far as I can see, but still. You have to think about him. We still have enough cap space to patch another hole or two. And a good GM can make a solid trade to patch another.

WCS is my realistic first choice, but if Mudiay is there (WCS is likely gone) then I'm probably taking him unless someone offers a sweet deal.

 

[funkykingston]

My concern with the draft is where do you go if Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Cauley-Stein are all off the board?

The consensus picks would be Winslow, Porzingis or Hezonja but yet another rookie SG or a guy with a very high bust potential who won't provide much this season aren't exciting scenarios for me.

 

[sdballer]

My concern with the draft is where do you go if Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Cauley-Stein are all off the board?

The consensus picks would be Winslow, Porzingis or Hezonja but yet another rookie SG or a guy with a very high bust potential who won't provide much this season aren't exciting scenarios for me.

That's when I absolutely look to make a trade with someone hot after one of those guys.

 

[hrdboild]

That's when I absolutely look to make a trade with someone hot after one of those guys.

Or you take the 3rd best prospect in the draft, Mr. Stanley Johnson.

 

[LPKingsFan]

My concern with the draft is where do you go if Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Cauley-Stein are all off the board?

The consensus picks would be Winslow, Porzingis or Hezonja but yet another rookie SG or a guy with a very high bust potential who won't provide much this season aren't exciting scenarios for me.

I like Winslow but that's clearly a less desirable outcome than the other two.

I know this has been debated here before, but I think we may have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that we take either Winslow or Mario and play them at the 3 with Rudy moving to the 4 more. In fact, the Kings posted an interview with Rudy today where he mentioned Karl has been talking with him about playing the 4 more: http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/could-rudy-see-more-time-power-forward-next-season

 

[Spike]

PS The Cousins factor is important, but to panic over Cousins isn't going to make this team better longer term. We'll just end up without Cousins and a bunch of mediocre vets on the roster. My personal belief is that this notion that Cousins can be surrounded with mediocre but complementary talent and have a playoff team isn't correct.

I'd like us to surround Cousins with that talent for the first time in his life. We saw a sneak peek with Beno/Dalembert/Evans as those pieces, and they looked good at the end of the year. We saw Cousins succeed just this past year with ill-fitting pieces under Malone. I think Cousins has the potential to elevate the play of mediocre players if they fit well into what he can do. I'd rather take that risk this year than just grab bag talent that doesn't make sense.
Is the risk of Cousins walking greater than the risk of starting over with a rookie who may not even live up to potential?

 

[ockingsfan]

Looks like WCS is moving up on the Mock Drafts. DX has WCS going #5 to Orlando now. Mudiay to the Kings.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/

Orlando hiring Scott Skiles and a defensive minded coach may screw the Kings out of WCS.

 

[KingMilz]

I like Winslow but that's clearly a less desirable outcome than the other two.

I know this has been debated here before, but I think we may have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that we take either Winslow or Mario and play them at the 3 with Rudy moving to the 4 more. In fact, the Kings posted an interview with Rudy today where he mentioned Karl has been talking with him about playing the 4 more: http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/could-rudy-see-more-time-power-forward-next-season

If that's true than we have to find a athletic SF who can shoot, there's more of those than the "'ideal PF"' to pair next to Cousins, all in on Khris Middleton and trade the pick for a quality PG (unless that Mudiay kid is legit).

 

[Bricklayer]

I like Winslow but that's clearly a less desirable outcome than the other two.

I know this has been debated here before, but I think we may have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that we take either Winslow or Mario and play them at the 3 with Rudy moving to the 4 more. In fact, the Kings posted an interview with Rudy today where he mentioned Karl has been talking with him about playing the 4 more: http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/could-rudy-see-more-time-power-forward-next-season

Ask Toronto how that worked out for them.

 

[itzcoatl]

Looks like WCS is moving up on the Mock Drafts. DX has WCS going #5 to Orlando now. Mudiay to the Kings.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/

Orlando hiring Scott Skiles and a defensive minded coach may screw the Kings out of WCS.

Nerlens Noel all over again.

 

[206Fan]

Nerlens Noel all over again.

I know that the Kings kept raving about Ben, but I have no doubt in my mind that if Noel had fallen to 7, they would've drafted him instead..

 

[Bricklayer]

Nerlens Noel all over again.

exactly. That pissed me off so much when it happened.

 

[randymoss1881]

Looks like WCS is moving up on the Mock Drafts. DX has WCS going #5 to Orlando now. Mudiay to the Kings.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/

Orlando hiring Scott Skiles and a defensive minded coach may screw the Kings out of WCS.

I still don't get this angle of NYK taking Winslow 4th. Why wouldn't they trade down with nuggets 4/Calderon for Lawson/7. They can get Winslow or Lyles there (who they like also) while shedding Calderons contract and grabbing a starting pg.

Nerlens Noel all over again.

STOP IT. Making us remember we could have had a dominate front court of Noel/Cousins should be a punishable offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

I was thinking more like " 6'8 and athletic, tall skilled wing player".

It could be done. From the vids I've seen of him I understand the thought. He's got size, moves well, handles well, can pass on the move, shoots well. he's actually a more complete prospect than either of our last 2 SG picks. But if you go blow a THIRD straight lottery pick on a SG...

here's what has to happen to make that remotely practical:

1) you draft Hezonja
2) you go off and sign a quality vet SG to keep form having to rely on the kid. Matthews would be brilliant. Guys like Afflalo or Bellinelli more practical.
3) you then turn around and use Ben and Nik as trade chips to start filling the other holes on the team, at PF of course, backup center, main backup PG.

Basically you push reset on the position. You could do that if he looked good in workouts. But beyond WCS so many of these other optins from Europe, China, wherever, are purely let's check the workouts type guys.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

STOP IT. Making us remember we could have had a dominant front court of Noel/Cousins should be a punishable offense.

No, we couldn't have. Noel was taken before our pick. There are any number of great players that we passed on (e.g. Lillard, Leonard, Drummond) but Noel is not one of them.

 

[randymoss1881]

No, we couldn't have. Noel was taken before our pick. There are any number of great players that we passed on (e.g. Lillard, Leonard, Drummond) but Noel is not one of them.

That's what I mean we were 1 pick away

 

[Albatros]

Mudiay is working out for the Knicks soon. Don't think he'll even consider working out here.

Probably be another situation where the prospect that falls in our lap will have been absent.

Clearly they don't want to play here.

 

[Hoovtrain]

My concern with the draft is where do you go if Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay and Cauley-Stein are all off the board?

The consensus picks would be Winslow, Porzingis or Hezonja but yet another rookie SG or a guy with a very high bust potential who won't provide much this season aren't exciting scenarios for me.

Knowing the Kings luck that is exactly the scenario they will face

 

[HndsmCelt]

Mudiay is working out for the Knicks soon. Don't think he'll even consider working out here.

Probably be another situation where the prospect that falls in our lap will have been absent.

Clearly they don't want to play here.

I don't think it's about Sac. Agents discourage guys that are considered top 3 to only work out for one and two teams, guys considered top 5 to only workout for top 4 etc. It's a ploy to enhance value.

 

[Albatros]

I don't think it's about Sac. Agents discourage guys that are considered top 3 to only work out for one and two teams, guys considered top 5 to only workout for top 4 etc. It's a ploy to enhance value.

It probably is largely that, but I still think there's many who are down on playing for the Kings. Especially the top guys.

 

[dude12]

I posted in the another thread that I feel strongly that WCS is going 4 to NY. I don't think they pass on the defensive, athletic 7 footer. I think he's almost locked in there.

No way Mudiay goes to Orlando at 5 with Elfrid Payton there. I think the Cameron Payne chatter from Sac is 2 fold. They like him as a legitimate prospect at 6 but it puts pressure on Mudiay to workout for us and at 7.

 

[Gilles]

Well, here's Wally Szczerbiak's opinion on WCS: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/62155/how-would-willie-cauley-stein-fit-the-knicks.
I don't necessarily agree, that WCS is that much limited as Wally suggests, but I'm also not going to argue, that he's a lot more skilled than Sam Dalembert right now, and Sam wasn't a hit offensively with Knicks.
This clip contains some ideas, why Wally might be right, and why Monroe is widely expected to move to NY:

And while Mudiay doesn't work as a "traditional" role playing PG for Phil - initiator, game manager, he fits rather well as a lead guard, penetrator. I think, there's high probability Knicks trade the pick anyway.

 

[206Fan]

Mudiay worked out for the Wolves (#1 pick), but he won't work out for the Kings.. Doesn't make a lot of sense.. he's not even in the conversation for the #1 pick..and if the Wolves were to even move back, Russell would be the pick.

I don't know what his reasoning is, but I don't want to draft a player who won't visit with the Kinsg. At least T-Rob and McLemore were both the consensus #2 picks.. Mudiay is projected in a crapshoot anywhere from 4-8.


Well alright.

 

[Bricklayer]

Mudiay worked out for the Wolves (#1 pick), but he won't work out for the Kings.. Doesn't make a lot of sense.. he's not even in the conversation for the #1 pick..and if the Wolves were to even move back, Russell would be the pick.

I don't know what his reasoning is, but I don't want to draft a player who won't visit with the Kinsg. At least T-Rob and McLemore were both the consensus #2 picks.. Mudiay is projected in a crapshoot anywhere from 4-8.


Well alright.

Standard agent posturing, and an eternal problem for the Kings for a decade now. 1) the agent starts restricting his guy from working out for lower drafting teams because he doesn't want to send the message that his guy is a lower ranked player; 2) last summer I thought we might finally be beyond this, but for the late Maloofs years we were notoriously a FUBAR situation that every agent was trying to keep guys from falling into. Then briefly I thought we were going to turn the corner and be seen as an up and coming group with an enthusiastic...and no, all the ridiculous nonsense last year has us right back in the Untouchables bin. Vivek is from India, he should know how in works for that caste.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

A bit lost on what I want to happen if Cauley-Stein gets nabbed by either NY or ORL.

It's easy to say 'trade the pick' without knowing what any of the offers look like, but, yea. That has to be plan A if WCS if off the board.

Leaning towards Porzingis, Winslow, or Mudiay, but I have issues with all three.

 

[jcwkings]

Payne is gonna workout for the Lakers and Knicks. His stock seems to be soaring, should be interesting on June 11th for his workout. People also saying he is on the same level as Russell. He does pass the eye test, has a great feel for the game and is a good shooter already. A true PG with scoring ability as well. What do you guys think? I'm all for WCS but PG is a position of need as well and he could end up being one of the big steals. Rarely do I hear of a guys draft stock soaring be a bust, especially coming from a small school. Could be a case like Lillard or Payton. Reminds me of a mix of Conley and Tony Parker.