Players that I would target with the 9th pick:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#1
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

 
Last edited:

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#2
The first time I saw him was your post in the thread before we knew the Kings were going to be graced with another lotto pick. I'm down with it if he's there. He would be a nice fit next to a Fox/Haliburton backcourt.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#3
I haven't watched him play until the tournament and as soon as you mentioned that he was a good defender, I was on board. Out of the ten prospects you mentioned, how many of them are good defenders? Also, didn't he go to Arkansas? not Tennessee
 
#4
I haven't watched him play until the tournament and as soon as you mentioned that he was a good defender, I was on board. Out of the ten prospects you mentioned, how many of them are good defenders? Also, didn't he go to Arkansas? not Tennessee
He's old. His memory doesn't always function as well as it should.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#6
I haven't watched him play until the tournament and as soon as you mentioned that he was a good defender, I was on board. Out of the ten prospects you mentioned, how many of them are good defenders? Also, didn't he go to Arkansas? not Tennessee
Arrrgh! My bad! That's what happens when you watch too much basketball. I just watched a bunch of film on Keon Johnson, who played for Tennessee.
 
#8
He's old. His memory doesn't always function as well as it should.
I may be dead wrong but I envision Bajaden under a palapa listening to the waves rolling in while watching tapes and working his computer. Maybe a little Tequila and lime and who wouldn’t confuse Arkansas for Tennessee.
 
#9
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

Thanks for the nice write up Baja!

Do you think Moody will be able to play the Small Forward in the NBA or is he more a Shooting guard?
 
#13
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

curious why Giddey failed to make your top 10. He and Hali would be a high IQ tandem on the perimeter.
 
#14
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

One other question. Given the depth of this draft would you have gone back and made the Barnes for the Celtics 1st and Nesmith trade which was on the table?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#15
curious why Giddey failed to make your top 10. He and Hali would be a high IQ tandem on the perimeter.
Almost every player in that group of ten is a good defender as well as being a good offensive player. Giddey almost made the tenth spot, but I'm not sure how good his defense will eventually be. I want players that can defend. It's time to change the culture.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#16
Jalen Johnson: SF/PF, 6'9", 220 Lb's, 6'11" Wingspan, 19.7 years old, Freshman, Duke.
21.4 mpg - 11.2 ppg - 52.3% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 63.2% ftp - 6.1 rpg - 2.2 apg - 1.2 blk's

Johnson is all over the mock drafts, but to me he's a sure fire lottery pick, and if he's sitting there when we pick, we might be getting the steal of the draft. If I have a problem with Johnson, it's the fact that he suffered a foot injury. So I'd certainly want my team doctors to go over him with a fine tooth comb, but from what I can glean from different sites, including Dukes, it's not expected to be a problem. Johnson is an excellent athlete who plays above the rim, and plays with a physicality that is somewhat lacking on the Kings.

He's a tenacious rebounder, and a very good finisher at the basket. While he scored the majority of his points within 5 feet of the basket, he did display a nice effortless looking jumpshot where he shot 44.4% from the three. However, before you get too overly excited, he only took 1.3 a game. So it's a small sampling. He also showed a nice mid-range jumper as well. I don't like his free throw numbers, but hopefully that's something he's working on along with tightening up his handles a bit.

I've read several reports that criticized his defensive ability, and I'm not sure what they were watching.. He's a very good help defender and weakside shot blocker. He displayed good lateral quickness on the perimeter, and most of all, he gave excellent effort. Do I have a few questions? Sure I do! Duke played a zone quite a bit which clouds things a bit. But overall I think he has the ability to be a very good defender. He has all the tools, and he already has an NBA body that will only get stronger.

Did I mention his passing? His best skill is his passing which is sometimes Jaw Dropping. He has terrific court vision and the ability to make that impossible pass that no one else can see. I envision a team made up of players that can all pass the ball and shoot the ball, as well as defend the ball. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I don't think so, and Johnson fits that vision. Finally, I've spent a lot of time delving into some of the things that became a big issue for the national press. I believe they called him a quitter. So I wondered how his teammates and Coach K felt about the whole thing.

Turns out he's loved by his teammates and was encouraged by them to leave, get totally healthy, and get ready for the draft. He had several conversations with coach K, who also encouraged him to leave.

Coach K said Wednesday that he was 100% behind Johnson's decision to leave.
“Our team loves Jalen,” Krzyzewski said. “He’s a brother to these guys. And, you know, for him and his family, they were great. You know, we’ve talked, and, look, I’m a coach, because the players and you know, these kids should have the choice to do whatever they want."

From everything I read Jalen was very coachable and never had a problem with any of his teammates of with the coaching staff. That's good enough for me. I saw quite a few of his games and I'm sold. I think he has star potential. For what that's worth.

 
#17
Jalen Johnson: SF/PF, 6'9", 220 Lb's, 6'11" Wingspan, 19.7 years old, Freshman, Duke.
21.4 mpg - 11.2 ppg - 52.3% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 63.2% ftp - 6.1 rpg - 2.2 apg - 1.2 blk's

Johnson is all over the mock drafts, but to me he's a sure fire lottery pick, and if he's sitting there when we pick, we might be getting the steal of the draft. If I have a problem with Johnson, it's the fact that he suffered a foot injury. So I'd certainly want my team doctors to go over him with a fine tooth comb, but from what I can glean from different sites, including Dukes, it's not expected to be a problem. Johnson is an excellent athlete who plays above the rim, and plays with a physicality that is somewhat lacking on the Kings.

He's a tenacious rebounder, and a very good finisher at the basket. While he scored the majority of his points within 5 feet of the basket, he did display a nice effortless looking jumpshot where he shot 44.4% from the three. However, before you get too overly excited, he only took 1.3 a game. So it's a small sampling. He also showed a nice mid-range jumper as well. I don't like his free throw numbers, but hopefully that's something he's working on along with tightening up his handles a bit.

I've read several reports that criticized his defensive ability, and I'm not sure what they were watching.. He's a very good help defender and weakside shot blocker. He displayed good lateral quickness on the perimeter, and most of all, he gave excellent effort. Do I have a few questions? Sure I do! Duke played a zone quite a bit which clouds things a bit. But overall I think he has the ability to be a very good defender. He has all the tools, and he already has an NBA body that will only get stronger.

Did I mention his passing? His best skill is his passing which is sometimes Jaw Dropping. He has terrific court vision and the ability to make that impossible pass that no one else can see. I envision a team made up of players that can all pass the ball and shoot the ball, as well as defend the ball. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I don't think so, and Johnson fits that vision. Finally, I've spent a lot of time delving into some of the things that became a big issue for the national press. I believe they called him a quitter. So I wondered how his teammates and Coach K felt about the whole thing.

Turns out he's loved by his teammates and was encouraged by them to leave, get totally healthy, and get ready for the draft. He had several conversations with coach K, who also encouraged him to leave.

Coach K said Wednesday that he was 100% behind Johnson's decision to leave.
“Our team loves Jalen,” Krzyzewski said. “He’s a brother to these guys. And, you know, for him and his family, they were great. You know, we’ve talked, and, look, I’m a coach, because the players and you know, these kids should have the choice to do whatever they want."

From everything I read Jalen was very coachable and never had a problem with any of his teammates of with the coaching staff. That's good enough for me. I saw quite a few of his games and I'm sold. I think he has star potential. For what that's worth.

That’s certainly encouraging considering all the negatives we’ve heard on Johnson. Yes the passing looks good and he legit size for a position of greatest need.
I am a bit concerned of a talent drop off after 8, but maybe not as concerning as I think.
 
#18
I have narrowed it down to 10 players that could possibly be our ninth pick. I realize that's quite a few considering that normally a pick in the lottery would be down to maybe two or three players. But this is an unusual draft in that the talent runs deep into the first rd. If you were to take a look at all the mock drafts out there you'll see a player going at number 9 or 10 on one mock, and the same player going at 18 or 19 in another one. I've seen Ayo Dosunmu in the mid to late teens, and I saw one mock that had him at 30. I think he's talented enough to be a lottery pick, but there are only 14 of them.

Anyway, my ten choices are as follows, and I have them in the order I like them:

1. Moses Moody
2. Jalen Johnson
3. Corey Kispert
4. Kai Jones
5. Franz Wagner
6. Usman Garuba
7. Isaiah Jackson
8. Davion Mitchell
9. Jaden Springer
10. Tre Mann

Obviously if Scottie Barnes or Keon Johnson should slide down to us, they would have to be considered. But I think both will be gone by then, and it's possible that my number one pick, Moody will be gone as well, but I'm hopeful he won't. So without further ado:

Moses Moody: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's, 7'0" Wingspan, Freshman, 18.6 years old, Arkansas.
32.8 mpg - 17.0 ppg - 43.3% fgp - 37.1% 3pp - 82.8% ftp - 5.8 rpg - 1.8 apg - 1.1 stl's

Moody is one of my favorite players in the draft, and he was fun to watch. He's an excellent athlete who is projected by most scouts as a 3 and D player. Moody is the type of player that fits in on just about every team, but is a perfect fit on the Kings. Number one, he defends. He projects to be a lock down defender. He has great length which allows him to play and defend three positions. He has excellent BBIQ. He seldom forces things and takes what's there. Sometimes at the end of the game you'll look at the box score and he'll have 25 pt's, and you can't remember him scoring that many times.

He's a good passer and at times was the primary ball handler for the Vol's. He was in fact, the primary everything for his team. He's a good shooter and has an effortless looking jump shot. While 37.1% is very respectable, for a 20 game period from Dec 3rd to Feb 13th, he shot right at 40%. Moody is a player that I think will be a better offensive player in the NBA than he was in college. He was the primary scorer at Arkansas, and if someone else had been able to score, Moody would have probably averaged 7 assists a game. Toward the last part of the season, and in the tournament, every team he played had their defense set to stop him from scoring. As a result some of his percentages took a dive.

Moody won't have that problem in the NBA, or on a team like the Kings, where he might be the 3rd or 4th option. He won't see many doubles like he did at Arkansas. Also, they have that testy defensive 3 second rule in the lane, and Moody loves to attack the basket. He also has a deadly mid-range game with pullup step backs, and floaters. As you note by his almost 6 boards a game, he's an excellent rebounder. Moody plays with an intensity you'll love. He probably needs to add some muscle, and tweak his ball handling a tad, but overall, he's ready to step on an NBA floor and contribute. He's a tough kid, and a workaholic. To me, he's a can't miss prospect, and hey, at still 18 years of age, he might grow another inch or two.

I think Herb Jones is a better value pick than Moody. Jones and Moody are close physically with Moody having the higher offensive upside while Jones has the higher defensive upside. Biggest difference between the two is a jump shot--where Moody projects as being an average shooter while Jones is a an average jump shot away from being a pick in the 20s. Think Donsumu is better.

Of the players on your list, I have Mitchell #2, ahead of Moody, after Johnson. Kispert and Wagner wouldn't be in the top ten for players at 9 for me (Donsumu and Giddey rating ahead of them). Kispert is slow footed and wasn't able to get his shot off against average level NBA athletes during the final four. And UCLA attacked Kispert all game--Jacquez/Juzang taking him off the dribble whenever he was guarding them on the perimeter. Both are average, at best, NBA wings. Wagner just didn't impress during the games that I watched--I see a lot of Pete Chilcut rather than Keith Van Horn in his game. The scouting reports of him being a multi-faceted offensive and defensive player are head scratchers for me. Maybe I need to watch more film of him.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#19
One other question. Given the depth of this draft would you have gone back and made the Barnes for the Celtics 1st and Nesmith trade which was on the table?
Are we sure it was on the table? I know we as fans assumed that was the offer Ainge was putting out there for Barnes/Gordon but I don't think any of the reputable reporters actually put that out there as an actual offer that was made beyond light speculation.
 
#20
Are we sure it was on the table? I know we as fans assumed that was the offer Ainge was putting out there for Barnes/Gordon but I don't think any of the reputable reporters actually put that out there as an actual offer that was made beyond light speculation.
While Sactowndog might be dogmatic in some of his proclamations, he seems to be pretty tuned in with Boston's mindset. I personally would give him the benefit of doubt in regards to that one particular team. Not that the benefit of doubt means anything.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#21
While Sactowndog might be dogmatic in some of his proclamations, he seems to be pretty tuned in with Boston's mindset. I personally would give him the benefit of doubt in regards to that one particular team. Not that the benefit of doubt means anything.
Yeah, didn't mean to come off as accusatory or anything. Just was wondering if we had any confirmation that that was the actual deal being offered or if it was wishful thinking on the part of Kings fans who still managed to lowball the Kings in their fantasy deal.
 
#22
Yeah, didn't mean to come off as accusatory or anything. Just was wondering if we had any confirmation that that was the actual deal being offered or if it was wishful thinking on the part of Kings fans who still managed to lowball the Kings in their fantasy deal.
This may have been on the table or not. It was said to be a sellers market but that is not what I would call it. Buyers made out like bandits. If the Kings were holding out for a second pick they misjudged the market just like I did. I thought the second pick was reasonable. I was greedy and I was wrong.
 
#23
I think Herb Jones is a better value pick than Moody. Jones and Moody are close physically with Moody having the higher offensive upside while Jones has the higher defensive upside. Biggest difference between the two is a jump shot--where Moody projects as being an average shooter while Jones is a an average jump shot away from being a pick in the 20s. Think Donsumu is better.

Of the players on your list, I have Mitchell #2, ahead of Moody, after Johnson. Kispert and Wagner wouldn't be in the top ten for players at 9 for me (Donsumu and Giddey rating ahead of them). Kispert is slow footed and wasn't able to get his shot off against average level NBA athletes during the final four. And UCLA attacked Kispert all game--Jacquez/Juzang taking him off the dribble whenever he was guarding them on the perimeter. Both are average, at best, NBA wings. Wagner just didn't impress during the games that I watched--I see a lot of Pete Chilcut rather than Keith Van Horn in his game. The scouting reports of him being a multi-faceted offensive and defensive player are head scratchers for me. Maybe I need to watch more film of him.
Chad Ford has Wagner mocked to us. Says the advanced stats love him.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#24
This may have been on the table or not. It was said to be a sellers market but that is not what I would call it. Buyers made out like bandits. If the Kings were holding out for a second pick they misjudged the market just like I did. I thought the second pick was reasonable. I was greedy and I was wrong.
In reality, there are two markets. There's a market for players who are on the block, and there's a market for players who aren't. Barnes wasn't on the block, but (evidently) the Celtics made an offer as if the Kings were desperately trying to sell him. That's not you or McNair misreading the market, that's the Celtics misreading our intentions about our own player.
 
#26
[
In reality, there are two markets. There's a market for players who are on the block, and there's a market for players who aren't. Barnes wasn't on the block, but (evidently) the Celtics made an offer as if the Kings were desperately trying to sell him. That's not you or McNair misreading the market, that's the Celtics misreading our intentions about our own player.
No its a veteran GM making an offer that potentially made sense for both teams. The Kings should have hit a slight reset and gone for a top 5 pick and multiple firsts in a pretty good draft.
 
#28
I think Wagner will be a Hayward type of player. But at this point who really knows.
I don’t see Hayward. I thought Luka would be Hayward from day one, because of his handles. I don’t see that type of handle on Wagner and don’t think he ever will develop those types of handle.

Wagner is right side dominant. He’s not Bagley, who is a one armed player, but 90% of Wagner’s drives and finishes are on his right hand. Because he is a one sided player, he doesn’t have the zig n zagging that the other two players do. I do like his game speed though, where he’s able to use an elongated step plus a hang dribble to either pass or pivot and go for a lay up on drives. My bet, he ends up playing like Joe Ingles.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#29
I think Herb Jones is a better value pick than Moody. Jones and Moody are close physically with Moody having the higher offensive upside while Jones has the higher defensive upside. Biggest difference between the two is a jump shot--where Moody projects as being an average shooter while Jones is a an average jump shot away from being a pick in the 20s. Think Donsumu is better.

Of the players on your list, I have Mitchell #2, ahead of Moody, after Johnson. Kispert and Wagner wouldn't be in the top ten for players at 9 for me (Donsumu and Giddey rating ahead of them). Kispert is slow footed and wasn't able to get his shot off against average level NBA athletes during the final four. And UCLA attacked Kispert all game--Jacquez/Juzang taking him off the dribble whenever he was guarding them on the perimeter. Both are average, at best, NBA wings. Wagner just didn't impress during the games that I watched--I see a lot of Pete Chilcut rather than Keith Van Horn in his game. The scouting reports of him being a multi-faceted offensive and defensive player are head scratchers for me. Maybe I need to watch more film of him.
If you watch Wagner and see only Pete Chilcut, then I wonder if you ever saw Chilcut play, and if you did, and still have that opinion, then I should probably put you on my ignore list. Just kidding! Of all the players on my list, Kispert is the weakest defensively, but he's not a liability, and as a team defensive player, he's actually pretty good. He knows where he's supposed to be on the floor and makes the right decisions. Your criticizing Kispert, and at the same time touting Giddey, who by the way didn't make my list (was close) because frankly, he's not a good defender, and has very poor lateral movement.

Do I think Giddey can improve enough to not be a liability? Yeah, probably, but the main point of the list was defense first and also offense. I've seen Kispert play probably (just a guess) in 50 or more games in the past three years, so I know his game well. I'll respect your opinion more when you stop exaggerating. As far as Wagner goes, unfortunately he had his two worse games of the year in the tournament. I don't know why, but I know he has the ability to be a terrific defender. He's one of the smartest help defenders in the draft. If I have a problem with him, its that he should be more aggressive at times. Here's the thing, I have no idea how he's being coached. I have no idea whether he has the green light to isolate and attack. My instincts tell me no, he doesn't.

Wagner is one of those quiet defenders. He's not spectacular, but always in the right place to help, or stop the ball. He's able to keep his man in front of him. He has all the tools to be a very good player both defensively and offensively. By the way, Dosunmu is one of my favorite players in the draft, and the only reason he's not on my list (once again he came close) is because of his age. He'll be 22 years old next Jan. I think he's deserving of being a lottery pick, but I doubt he will be as a three year player. I think Dosunmu has a very high floor, but I'm unsure about his ceiling. He's a hot and cold shooter. I see him as a solid NBA player, but not a star. Nothing wrong with that though.

One last word about Giddey, who I struggled with as far as this list goes. I only saw two complete games, (https://www.livebasketball.tv/home) and unfortunately they were two of his early season games. I plan on watching some of his late season games, and perhaps I'll change my mind.
 
#30
If you watch Wagner and see only Pete Chilcut, then I wonder if you ever saw Chilcut play, and if you did, and still have that opinion, then I should probably put you on my ignore list. Just kidding! Of all the players on my list, Kispert is the weakest defensively, but he's not a liability, and as a team defensive player, he's actually pretty good. He knows where he's supposed to be on the floor and makes the right decisions. Your criticizing Kispert, and at the same time touting Giddey, who by the way didn't make my list (was close) because frankly, he's not a good defender, and has very poor lateral movement.

Do I think Giddey can improve enough to not be a liability? Yeah, probably, but the main point of the list was defense first and also offense. I've seen Kispert play probably (just a guess) in 50 or more games in the past three years, so I know his game well. I'll respect your opinion more when you stop exaggerating. As far as Wagner goes, unfortunately he had his two worse games of the year in the tournament. I don't know why, but I know he has the ability to be a terrific defender. He's one of the smartest help defenders in the draft. If I have a problem with him, its that he should be more aggressive at times. Here's the thing, I have no idea how he's being coached. I have no idea whether he has the green light to isolate and attack. My instincts tell me no, he doesn't.

Wagner is one of those quiet defenders. He's not spectacular, but always in the right place to help, or stop the ball. He's able to keep his man in front of him. He has all the tools to be a very good player both defensively and offensively. By the way, Dosunmu is one of my favorite players in the draft, and the only reason he's not on my list (once again he came close) is because of his age. He'll be 22 years old next Jan. I think he's deserving of being a lottery pick, but I doubt he will be as a three year player. I think Dosunmu has a very high floor, but I'm unsure about his ceiling. He's a hot and cold shooter. I see him as a solid NBA player, but not a star. Nothing wrong with that though.

One last word about Giddey, who I struggled with as far as this list goes. I only saw two complete games, (https://www.livebasketball.tv/home) and unfortunately they were two of his early season games. I plan on watching some of his late season games, and perhaps I'll change my mind.
The games that I watched Wagner closely, he just didn't pop. Watching more film on him recently have me seeing more of his talent and I now project him to be a Joe Ingles type. I don't see the handles that Hayward or Luka has. The main difference between Giddey and Wagoner is their handle, which is why I project him higher. Wagoner the better defender (elite? I don't see that) while Giddey the more multi-faceted offensive threat.

As for Kispert, I've seen him about 6 times. Against WCC and against high level D1 athletes. Against the WCC, Gonzaga pretty much ran through everyone. Better athletes, a ton of spacing, because opposing WCC teams were scrambling to deal with the stache, Ayai, and Suggs. Against UCLA and Baylor, he couldn't get his shot off and was targeted on defense (especially by UCLA). He's essentially Jason Kapono and should be a second rounder. Some mocks have rightfully dropped him into the mid/late teens. Should be lower. I think Juzang and Jaquez are better long term prospects than Kispert--and I think Juzang and Jaquez will end up being something like what Andres Nocioni was (that is, average, at best, NBA wings).

As for Donsumu, he's plug and play from day 1 and should be drafted ahead of Kispert. Like a full round ahead. Being an older player is a concern, but if the Kings can get two solid contracts from a late first that would still be levels greater than what they've gotten from Bags and other high lotto picks.