Now I'm not so worried (told ya so!) :)

#32
I just don't believe there's such thing as all our five starters SUDDENLY decided not to play. Believe me or not our weak bench WILL affect the way our starters play.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#33
Since93 said:
What I want to say is, besides Bobby, WHO can we count on at the bench? I mean all season long, 82 games. I totally understand some players may have off-night. But do you really think Darius and Tag and a bunch of unproven rookies are who we count on???????

The ridiculously thin bench create a huge pressure on our starters. They will be more likely to worn out. Btw we are not considered young anymore.
Well three things:

1) Tag has never been game-to-game dependable -- in fact he is noted for his inconsitency. But when in shape he HAS overall been a productive bench player and part time starter his entire career. Last year he was about 7pts 7rebs 2blks productive. Not All-Star numbers, but a definite contributor. He's not that old -- most likely problem right now is just no camp, bad hand, and corresponding beer gut.

2) Darius had an impressive rookie year. Not all-rookie team impressive. But he clearly outplayed Massenberg after the first few months of the season, and even fared reasonably well during his short stint as a starter while both Webb and Miller were out. Now he could be a flash in the pan I suspose. But more likely he'll eventually be solid this year. (albeit not too consistent himself). In any case though, situation is no different than it was last year before Webb got back.

3) the real ? spot, as it was last year, is that backup 2/3. Barnes looked good through the first 4 games, not so tonight. We'll have to see how that goes. He's only a second year player, so no particular reason why he could not just develop into a solid bencher for us -- not like he's an established scrub. And not as if we had any great players there last year -- Peeler averaged 6pts for us, and Gerald was an enigma. Would very much like to see Courtney Alexander make an appearance at some point here and see what he's got.

Bottomline though:

Last year's bench (before Webb returned):
Bobby
Peeler
Songaila
Mass
Wallace
Jabari
Buford

this year:
Bobby
Barnes
Songaila
Tag
Alexander
Evans
Martin

there's not a huge gap there assumign everybody plays up to potential this year.
 
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#36
Just_Lurkin said:
it's not really depth that's killing us. their shots are off......way off.
Yeah, everybody cut out the depth talk!!! THE FIRST UNIT IS TO BLAME!!! Blown right out of the gate. They create a hole that you can't realistically expect a second unit to get you out of every time.
 
#37
Bricklayer said:
there's not a huge gap there assumign everybody plays up to potential this year.
Uncertain. A BIG QUESTION MARK.

To me besides Bobby, none of the players you metioned is proven realible night in and night out. Are you sure we are not too high on Darius?
 
#38
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, everybody cut out the depth talk!!! THE FIRST UNIT IS TO BLAME!!! Blown right out of the gate. They create a hole that you can't realistically expect a second unit to get you out of every time.
hey.. no body is saying we should expect the bench to win it for us. But try to imagine if EVERY GAME we have to have our 5 starters to play well in order to win a game. They are not machine. They will break down. I can see the break down process has already begin, maybe from the last season.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#40
Since93 said:
Uncertain. A BIG QUESTION MARK.

To me besides Bobby, none of the players you metioned is proven realible night in and night out. Are you sure we are not too high on Darius?
i don't know, are we? We have nothing to go on but last year, when he was quite good, if inconsistent.

Overall point would be though that the only spot where we got appreciably LESS reliable from last year to this is from Peeler to Barnes. And actually Barnes might be a better fit (true swingman). Just a question of whether he can sustain his play or not. But otherwise:

Bobby = Bobby
Songaila = Songaila
Tag > Massenberg

and Alexander/Martin/Evans may not be reliable, but neither were Wallace/Buford/Jabari.

And the bench last year was noentheless good enough for us to have the best record in the league before the All-Star break. Difference was our starters were playing up to their abilities.
 
#41
Since93 said:
hey.. no body is saying we should expect the bench to win it for us. But try to imagine if EVERY GAME we have to have our 5 starters to play well in order to win a game. They are not machine. They will break down. I can see the break down process has already begin, maybe from the last season.
I understand what your saying but the bench is there to give your starters rest, and what team doesn't rely on the starting 5? Sure there are deep teams but if your starters don't do well it's really irrelevent what your bench is like b/c you won't win.

Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, I think that the bench from this season is not far off from last year in terms of talent.
 
#42
Bricklayer said:
And the bench last year was noentheless good enough for us to have the best record in the league before the All-Star break. Difference was our starters were playing up to their abilities.
But we are a team, right? How can we separate the performance of the starters and the bench? As I said before the lack of depth will eventually affect the performance of the starters!!!

You are right, our bench has not been good since last season.

And this is the result you can see now.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#44
Stojakovic said:
In hunting or in basketball ?
Uh...I think you'd find 10 out of 10 GMs that would tell you both. Tag can at least do something, even if that something is just be a very large roadblock.
 
#45
Basketball....this is Tony Massenberg we are talking about.

Brick brings up a good point. The bench this year, when healthy, is practically the same as last years bench, maybe sans Peeler who could give ya a good night, or not, but at least shot well.

As it stands right now Tom Tolbert is right, they look like a team trying to find themselves.
 
#46
bdouble013 said:
Brick brings up a good point. The bench this year, when healthy, is practically the same as last years bench, maybe sans Peeler who could give ya a good night, or not, but at least shot well.

As it stands right now Tom Tolbert is right, they look like a team trying to find themselves.
well i'm sure Alexander could feel the void of Peeler (who hasnt done much in Washington)
 
#47
Massenburg has actually had a few years where he has been DECENT, reaching double figures in scoring a few times throughout his career...something that cannot be said of Ostertag in ANY category.

Massenburg is surely not a great, nor good player, but Ostertag is garbage. You'd get more production placing a big dumpster under the basket.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#48
Stojakovic said:
Massenburg has actually had a few years where he has been DECENT, reaching double figures in scoring a few times throughout his career...something that cannot be said of Ostertag in ANY category.

Massenburg is surely not a great, nor good player, but Ostertag is garbage. You'd get more production placing a big dumpster under the basket.
Scoring is NOT all there is to the game. Once upon a time Mass has a couple of ok years, but he never made the least bit of impact. Tag is one of the best rebounders/shot blockers in the league and has been a top reserve/part time starter on 2 Finals teams and maybe 6-7playoff teams. There is a reason Utah kept him around for 9 years.
 
#49
vj9999 said:
The link I gave you had a right score. It was a score for the last years game when Kings blew out Seattle 130-99. I just wanted to prove that blow outs happen that's all.

I think we are all collectively spoiled as fans. We can't be winning all the time. Things will get better.
Sorry, my bad. Yes, I understand we can't win all the time, but let's show some effort. They all played TERRIBLE and its only their 5th game of the season. It would have been ok had they shown effort tonight and still lost, but it was just frustrating and disappointed to see this type of game so early in the season.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#50
Bricklayer said:
i don't know, are we? We have nothing to go on but last year, when he was quite good, if inconsistent.

Overall point would be though that the only spot where we got appreciably LESS reliable from last year to this is from Peeler to Barnes. And actually Barnes might be a better fit (true swingman). Just a question of whether he can sustain his play or not. But otherwise:

Bobby = Bobby
Songaila = Songaila
Tag > Massenberg

and Alexander/Martin/Evans may not be reliable, but neither were Wallace/Buford/Jabari.

And the bench last year was noentheless good enough for us to have the best record in the league before the All-Star break. Difference was our starters were playing up to their abilities.
We had Vlade and were playing good unselfish BB.
 
#56
piksi said:
was that sarcasm ? - WOW
No.

-No offense to Vlade, and he'll always be one of my all-time favorite Kings, but I am sick and tired of hearing about him. He's not here anymore. And you know what else, even if were here he wouldn't be playing, so please let the man live on in his purple and gold, not purple and black.

-We've all gone over this a number of times. The Kings sucked defensively last season, the rebounding has horrendous and they had the easiest schedule you could find in the league. That's how they got that record. It was fools gold, all style and no substance.

-This is a new year. This is a new team. This is a new attitude. Give them some games to figure it all out, give them a few games equal out the schedule (Who sits at the top of the L right now? Miami, Toronto, Indiana, Dallas, Utah and PHX. What do all of these teams have in common? Everyone but PHX hasn't opened up with 4 of their first 5 on the road. No one has opened up with the Texas Triangle) I mean, we all think the Kings (are at least pretty) good, they aren't exactly world beaters. Give their opponents some credit.

-There are two ways to look at this team IMHO: You either think they are simply a bad team (a stout observation to make off of 5 whole games) or you think they are a good team playing badly (at the moment.) As you could tell, I practitioner of the later.
 
#57
Bricklayer said:
Scoring is NOT all there is to the game. Once upon a time Mass has a couple of ok years, but he never made the least bit of impact. Tag is one of the best rebounders/shot blockers in the league and has been a top reserve/part time starter on 2 Finals teams and maybe 6-7playoff teams. There is a reason Utah kept him around for 9 years.
Ostertag top reserve ? Wow, these days you can hear all sorts of stuff on this board.

But I guess that must be why he was so wanted and sought after, after Utah decided to release him...however his love for the Kings ultimately made him sign a contract barely worth a million or so a year.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#58
ReinadelosReys said:
No.

-No offense to Vlade, and he'll always be one of my all-time favorite Kings, but I am sick and tired of hearing about him. He's not here anymore. And you know what else, even if were here he wouldn't be playing, so please let the man live on in his purple and gold, not purple and black.

-We've all gone over this a number of times. The Kings sucked defensively last season, the rebounding has horrendous and they had the easiest schedule you could find in the league. That's how they got that record. It was fools gold, all style and no substance.

-This is a new year. This is a new team. This is a new attitude. Give them some games to figure it all out, give them a few games equal out the schedule (Who sits at the top of the L right now? Miami, Toronto, Indiana, Dallas, Utah and PHX. What do all of these teams have in common? Everyone but PHX hasn't opened up with 4 of their first 5 on the road. No one has opened up with the Texas Triangle) I mean, we all think the Kings (are at least pretty) good, they aren't exactly world beaters. Give their opponents some credit.

-There are two ways to look at this team IMHO: You either think they are simply a bad team (a stout observation to make off of 5 whole games) or you think they are a good team playing badly (at the moment.) As you could tell, I practitioner of the later.
Wow.

You said what I'd been trying to find a way to say very, very well!

It's rather ironic that so many people are now ready to canonize Vlade when just last year, after any poor performance - and he had his share - they were very quick to talk about him being over the hill, perpetuously out of shape, etc. They demanded that Miller be our starting center.

Thanks for your comments.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#59
ReinadelosReys said:
No.

-No offense to Vlade, and he'll always be one of my all-time favorite Kings, but I am sick and tired of hearing about him. He's not here anymore. And you know what else, even if were here he wouldn't be playing, so please let the man live on in his purple and gold, not purple and black.

-We've all gone over this a number of times. The Kings sucked defensively last season, the rebounding has horrendous and they had the easiest schedule you could find in the league. That's how they got that record. It was fools gold, all style and no substance.

-This is a new year. This is a new team. This is a new attitude. Give them some games to figure it all out, give them a few games equal out the schedule (Who sits at the top of the L right now? Miami, Toronto, Indiana, Dallas, Utah and PHX. What do all of these teams have in common? Everyone but PHX hasn't opened up with 4 of their first 5 on the road. No one has opened up with the Texas Triangle) I mean, we all think the Kings (are at least pretty) good, they aren't exactly world beaters. Give their opponents some credit.

-There are two ways to look at this team IMHO: You either think they are simply a bad team (a stout observation to make off of 5 whole games) or you think they are a good team playing badly (at the moment.) As you could tell, I practitioner of the later.
Bravo!!!!



My dear, Reina! I love and respect your style. And, these are perhaps your greatest comments yet. Stick with it, girl. I really really like your style. You exemplify what I view as a real fan. {{{6th stands and salutes, Reina}}}