[Game] Knicks @ Kings Game Thread 11/17/10

[DeMoN]

Just need more experience on our team. We have no average or better players with 3 or more years of experience. Wonder why the Warriors are doing better? Ellis and Lee have been in the league a while.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I can not imagine other teams in the league getting as screwed by the refs in the 4th at HOME as we do.

Pulezzz. The refs had absolutely nothing to do with a NY 40 pt 2nd Q, no Kings answer whatsoever for Gallo and Amare for 4 Qs, Kings dismal shooting (compared to lights out NY shooting) and in general poor Kings defense when it counted. The refs were a very very minor part of this game as they usually are. Constant complaining about officiating is for whining losers.

 

[ElRey]

Can anybody really say with a straight face that Evans has improved in ANY facet of the game at all from last season? I'm sorry, he actually looks worse. I don't even have to point this out any more to the kool aid drinkers, he's doing the talking for me on the court. Good night.

I thought he's playing injured right now.

 

[ElRey]

It seems like everytime we were going to break through, the refs would stop it! I'm ready to see Demarcus start now. He looks ready.

 

[kingsboi]

Well, can't say we didn't have a chance in this one. It just came down to free throw differential, 3 point shooting & not getting crucial stops at the most important time of the game. I was glad to see Donte get playing time finally, he did well. JT starting is not something I want to see again, but...we most likely will. Head starting wasn't a bad idea but I think Cisco would of done the job. Kings were lucky early that New York weren't making their shots and later on it hurt them when they decided the same shots they were missing, are now dropping. Tyreke just looks out of sort to me, he doesn't shoot enough when we need him the most, I don't know what to base that on. It is what it is, another loss, on to the Nets.

 

[rainmaker]

Let's not forget Tyreke was about 80% healthy coming into this game. Not an excuse for his poor decisions, but explains not having any lift on his jumpers or when attacking.

 

[gunks]

Also:

Why oh why didnt JT get any playing time at the 4? He was ahead of Casspi at the 3, but behind Landry and Jackson at his natural postition.

Also:

We played our best ball when we had 5 guys on the floor at their natural positions. This is after 8 games of Westfail dicking around with every permutation and combination of terrible lineup possible. There's certain things about this team I like: the fight. But seriously, I have my doubts about Westphal. Honeymoon period: over.

 

[Gabriel]

Tyreke evans has gotten worse. His jumpshot hasn't improved thus far.

 

[rainmaker]

His shooting is much improved (No longer shooting from behind his head), decision making has impoved along with his court awareness (If out team remembered how to hit threes, he would be averaging a good two or so more assists per game.

Try to ignore king07. He doesn't understand basketball, or have the ability to have an intelligent conversation.

 

[Showtime]

His shooting is much improved (No longer shooting from behind his head), decision making has impoved along with his court awareness (If out team remembered how to hit threes, he would be averaging a good two or so more assists per game.

nope, and...nope.

Form is irrelevant if it doesn't result in better production. There have been plenty of guys with releases behind the head (Bird), off to the side (Stockton), or just plain weird (Marion, Martin) who just shoot well. Evans could have perfect form, but if it's not falling, it doesn't matter. The release point wasn't so much of an issue as it was his leaning too far back on his shot anyway. And this season, it's not falling at a rate that anybody with a straight face could call "much improved".

His decision-making also hasn't improved. He still draws far too many offensive fouls from just barreling into opponents when he shouldn't. He is actually leaving his feet to pass far more this year than last year, which is a huge fundamental mistake.

 

[x2RedReaper2x]

Something is wrong with Tyreke Evans, he just isn't bringing it like last season.
That is the Landry that we love.
And, really Westphaul? Did it take you that long to figure out that Greene can play?

 

[Showtime]

Your criticism is valid, but what is bolded is a pretty big assumption. Reke puts in work. He put in work on his jumper (with varied results so far - but jumpers take time), so hopefully he will put in work on basic fundamentals (coaching needs to really hammer it in too. Last season they let Reke get away with a lot).

You and I don't have access to his training habits. All we have are short video clips. What we do have to go on are results, and they don't look like he's improved much, considering the very fundamental and simplistic areas of the game of which he hasn't seemed to grasp.

He's got all-world talent, but not from what I've seen the motor of the players who end up reaching the top of the league. Steady improvement is the mark of the greats, and while shooting does take time, that's not the only issue that's bothering me. It just doesn't seem like his bball IQ as a pg is there.

As far as Reke's questionable BBIQ. He is a young player, asked to do an awful lot.

I'm so sick of hearing "he's young". Well, some of these things are learned at age 12, not 21. Some mistakes are corrected as a second year varsity player, not a second year NBA player. It doesn't matter how many years a guy is in the league, some things should be learned ahead of time.

I fully understand there's an adjustment and growth period for players. But I think the bar was set way too high for Evans, from both the fans and organization perspective. I don't think he's ready to take on the role of franchise player, nor do I think the fans should keep up this image of him as a player. He's still very, very raw with a lot of holes in his game, and the sooner we all take a step back and stop expecting him to be an all star next year and the kings a playoff team, the easier it will be to handle disappointment. I hope he eventually gets it together, but right now, he's still got a lot of room to improve.

Hopefully he plays smarter (because if he doesnt than he will never be a top 15 player IMO) in time, and really it takes time. Its premature to even make a call on any decision making improvement til at least 3 seasons in. And a lot of this depends on coaching, which is iffy here in Kingsland. It would be awesome if we can get a crafty vet guard over here as a mentor for Reke. Like, a vet minimum wiley has-been type.

 

[kennadog]

I'd have to think that Reke's ankle injuries are bothering him more than he or the coach are going to admit to the media. I worry a bit about those ankles. Its been a problem since high school and may be the biggest problem in trying to reach his potential.

 

[Section 101]

I fully understand there's an adjustment and growth period for players. But I think the bar was set way too high for Evans, from both the fans and organization perspective. I don't think he's ready to take on the role of franchise player, nor do I think the fans should keep up this image of him as a player. He's still very, very raw with a lot of holes in his game, and the sooner we all take a step back and stop expecting him to be an all star next year and the kings a playoff team, the easier it will be to handle disappointment. I hope he eventually gets it together, but right now, he's still got a lot of room to improve.

I've been saying this from Day 1.

 

[PurpleHaze]

PW in his post game comments said a lot but what caught my ear was that his team (or certain players) are not 48 min focused and therefore not consistent. He said he would not call out anyone in public but that those players who are not focused are going to be riding the bench. Also, seemed very mifted that a struggling team like NY playing a back-to-back could come into Arco and lay 113 pts on the Kings including 99 pts after 1st Q - the only decent 12 mins the Kings played all night.

 

[eflat]

I'd have to think that Reke's ankle injuries are bothering him more than he or the coach are going to admit to the media. I worry a bit about those ankles. Its been a problem since high school and may be the biggest problem in trying to reach his potential.

This.

 

[Section 101]

PW in his post game comments said a lot but what caught my ear was that his team (or certain players) are not 48 min focused and therefore not consistent. He said he would not call out anyone in public but that those players who are not focused are going to be riding the bench. Also, seemed very mifted that a struggling team like NY playing a back-to-back could come into Arco and lay 113 pts on the Kings including 99 pts after 1st Q - the only decent 12 mins the Kings played all night.

So he wants to play people 48 mins? That makes sense. Maybe if he had a rotation then players would know what to expect and be prepared instead of thrown to his whims.

 

[gunks]

You and I don't have access to his training habits. All we have are short video clips. What we do have to go on are results, and they don't look like he's improved much, considering the very fundamental and simplistic areas of the game of which he hasn't seemed to grasp.

He's got all-world talent, but not from what I've seen the motor of the players who end up reaching the top of the league. Steady improvement is the mark of the greats, and while shooting does take time, that's not the only issue that's bothering me. It just doesn't seem like his bball IQ as a pg is there.



I'm so sick of hearing "he's young". Well, some of these things are learned at age 12, not 21. Some mistakes are corrected as a second year varsity player, not a second year NBA player. It doesn't matter how many years a guy is in the league, some things should be learned ahead of time.

I fully understand there's an adjustment and growth period for players. But I think the bar was set way too high for Evans, from both the fans and organization perspective. I don't think he's ready to take on the role of franchise player, nor do I think the fans should keep up this image of him as a player. He's still very, very raw with a lot of holes in his game, and the sooner we all take a step back and stop expecting him to be an all star next year and the kings a playoff team, the easier it will be to handle disappointment. I hope he eventually gets it together, but right now, he's still got a lot of room to improve.

I agree with you on a lot of this, especially the last paragraph. But I do think that Tyreke being a sophomore player is still a valid excuse. Teams gameplan for him now, and what he used to get away with, he is now having trouble with. He doesnt have the fundamentals because other facets of his game are/were so strong he didnt have to focus on the basics. That worked prior to the NBA, and that will work in the NBA if he wants to peak out at his 20/5/5, but if he wants to get better than that he will have to work on all the things you pointed out. I dont really want to give out a free pass for his dumb play, but I am not overly concerened with it yet. If he's still making dumb decisions in a couple seasons, THEN I'll start worrying. But yes, he does need to up that BBIQ. I'd rank that ahead of him getting a jumper honestly, I mean look at players like Kidd and Rondo.

I think the 20/5/5 chase last season really hurt his development. He was given free reign to get his and play kind of stupidly. Guady stats, but not so guady record. You're right, Tyreke is raw. He needs coaching, not total freedom on the court.

 

[PurpleHaze]

So he wants to play people 48 mins? That makes sense. Maybe if he had a rotation then players would know what to expect and be prepared instead of thrown to his whims.

No - what he meant, or at least I think he meant, was that certain players might start out playing well for first 12 mins or say on a long 1st Q stint (as Kings played well together during opening quarter tonight) but when back in later fall flat - due to "lack of focus." This has forced him to juggle things which has involved 4 different starting lineups in 10 games and trying different rotations after promising 3-1 start. You'd have to listen to entire post-game comments since taking one sound bite isn't aways fair as it may or may not be in appropriate context.

 

[Asaf]

I think the 20/5/5 chase last season really hurt his development. He was given free reign to get his and play kind of stupidly. Guady stats, but not so guady record. You're right, Tyreke is raw. He needs coaching, not total freedom on the court.

This. I was called a troll and basically chased off this board last season for saying exactly that. I'm glad more people understand now that a 20 year old, no matter how talented, can't be given complete freedom to do whatever he wants. He needs guidance and not stat padding.

 

[Kingster]

What does an ankle have to do with making poor decisions?

Well, to be fair, his mind might not be totally focused on the game because of the pain of the ankle. And he could be pressing because the ankle doesn't allow to do everything he wants to do out there. Still, he's gotten into a bad habit of jumping up in the air with the pass. That's got to stop soon.

 

[swisshh]

Paul also said he had a practice and the team that got its butt whooped in practice he made the starting five.

He also commented on the mindless dribbling and mindless offense, but that is either on him or the guy running the ball on the court.

 

[Kingster]

No - what he meant, or at least I think he meant, was that certain players might start out playing well for first 12 mins or say on a long 1st Q stint (as Kings played well together during opening quarter tonight) but when back in later fall flat - due to "lack of focus." This has forced him to juggle things which has involved 4 different starting lineups in 10 games and trying different rotations after promising 3-1 start. You'd have to listen to entire post-game comments since taking one sound bite isn't aways fair as it may or may not be in appropriate context.

Remember last year when this team prided itself on playing hard? I don't even hear players and coaches talking about it like last year, much less doing it. You just don't play D as lousy or as sporadically as this team if you're playing hard. From what I see there are a lot of selfish agendas out there with players more concerned about their minutes than they are about the team winning. Winning seems very secondary to their agenda.

 

[IfAt1st]

I'm posting this to stop later ret-con misrememberings by KF's:

Tyreke made HORRIBLE decisions that cost the Kings lots of points tonight. He made serious mistakes in defense, too - the way he cheats off his man, standing there on the weak side and then spacing out for a second losing his man has GOT to stop. He is repeatedly failing to box out or go to the basket for rebounds.

Cisco had a couple BAD minutes.
JT was pathetic tonight.
Darnell didn't give anything either.
Dalembert sucked tonight, too. Amare killed him.

DMC was amazing to watch tonight - really a force out there, with solid defense even with some slip-ups, he's starting to intimidate and scare opponents with his moves.
Landry was impressive, really exploited his advantages and worked hard. It's amazing how KF's are complaining about him saying he sucks and has to go or he should be benched when the man has been averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds (SIX OREB's a game!!) the past 3 games and shooting 55%!

WTH are you guys watching out there to come to these delusional conclusions?

 

[swisshh]

I am not sure anyone is claiming otherwise to your assessment of the game.

 

[Lockehead]

Im rewatching the game as i missed 3/4 of it. 3 minutes left of the 4th quarter now. I would have loved to see Beno running the point, while Tyreke is freed to work in the high post.

 

[IfAt1st]

I am not sure anyone is claiming otherwise to your assessment of the game.

I guarantee you people have and will be misrepresenting what happened tonight.

Point in fact :
Beno's defense didn't lose this game, contrary to what people have been suggesting.
He played solid d in the 3rd and 4th (just re-watched for proof) - drew the charge/travel on Amare and stayed infront without fouling on the breakaway after DMC's TO.
He guessed wrong on a pick-and-roll and was going so fast had to flop on Felton's drive, but other than those was solid D.

The refs DID affect the game.
Kings were within 3 and multiple BAD calls (replays showed them to be wrong) kept them from catching up.
At least 4 questionable or outright wrong calls are all it takes to affect the outcome of a game.
* Stoudamire was bailed out from his clear travel
* DMC was clearly fouled by Tourief when Amare blocked him (non-call)
* Amare switched away from Landry then hit LOTS of DMC's hand just barely grazing ball (usually that's a foul in this league, especially the way it happened)
* 3 seconds on DMC to take away his basket? Really? The replay proves he got rooked of a lot of stats tonight.

 

[piksi]

Fell asleep during the 2nd quarter. Saw the score this morning. I would ask what happened fur there is no need for it. Can't do the thread for the next game. These games are late and boring. Ir is killing me but it is the best medicine against insomnia.

 

[mac]

I'm posting this to stop later ret-con misrememberings by KF's:

Tyreke made HORRIBLE decisions that cost the Kings lots of points tonight. He made serious mistakes in defense, too - the way he cheats off his man, standing there on the weak side and then spacing out for a second losing his man has GOT to stop. He is repeatedly failing to box out or go to the basket for rebounds.

Cisco had a couple BAD minutes.
JT was pathetic tonight.
Darnell didn't give anything either.
Dalembert sucked tonight, too. Amare killed him.

DMC was amazing to watch tonight - really a force out there, with solid defense even with some slip-ups, he's starting to intimidate and scare opponents with his moves.
Landry was impressive, really exploited his advantages and worked hard. It's amazing how KF's are complaining about him saying he sucks and has to go or he should be benched when the man has been averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds (SIX OREB's a game!!) the past 3 games and shooting 55%!

WTH are you guys watching out there to come to these delusional conclusions?

Umm. The games before the past 3 games??

 

[Showtime]

Well, to be fair, his mind might not be totally focused on the game because of the pain of the ankle. And he could be pressing because the ankle doesn't allow to do everything he wants to do out there. Still, he's gotten into a bad habit of jumping up in the air with the pass. That's got to stop soon.

I also think a contributing factor is the over-reliance on his dribble penetration. I think asking him to work off the ball more, setting up his post game, iso on the baseline, etc with the ball in beno's hands more will do wonders for this team.