alonshin
G-League
Yes. We are also 8-12 after a 4-7 start. Or 0-2 after a 12-17 start. We can play this game all season long.
[Game] Kings @ Warriors 28 DEC 2015, 22:30 ET/19:30 PT
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
- Start date
Yes. We are also 8-12 after a 4-7 start. Or 0-2 after a 12-17 start. We can play this game all season long.
Boogie would have played at least 20 minutes if he cared to (8 minutes with 5 fouls is not unreasonable, if you're careful). He decided to get ejected after playing only 12 minutes overall, and 0 with 5 fouls. You'd get a very different result when you adjust your query with this in mind.
http://bkref.com/tiny/hhzq7
My point is that with and without Cousins, we've had a losing record year in and year out. Him helping us win 15-20 games a season isn't anything to brag about. Comparing him against all time greats with their HOF teammates is a bit unfair too.
Of course the Kings win more games with Cuz, but it's not like we win a lot with him.
If we didn't have Cousins as our franchise player, we'd have someone else right now. It's not like if the Kings don't have Cuz, we're left with this roster with Rudy Gay as our #1 guy.
I'm not advocating we trade him right now, but at some point, he's really got to stop with attitude. I'll give him credit, he's gotten better this year..but it's not enough to notice a difference.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I understand your point, but I would like to point out, that what people do when everything is going right is meaningless. What people do in the face of adversity is what matters. A leader is the guy that gets everyone together when the ship is sinking, and finds a way to right the ship. He doesn't get in the first life boat and wish everyone else luck. I agree that there is a distinct difference between expectations and reality, but at some point, they have to come together, otherwise your living in dreamland for eternity. As I said, I could live with his getting the fouls. I think he was being stupid, but I could live with them. What I couldn't live with, was him struggling once again against Bogut, and then taking the opportunity to check out.
That goes to the core of what makes him a competitor. Every player can look like a world beater when the ball is bouncing his way. But like I said, its what you do when the ball isn't bouncing your way that really matters if you want to be a champion. He took what was Casspi's greatest night in an NBA uniform, and turned into a pile of dog crap. He made everything about him. Cousins feels entitled, and we and the organization are responsible for that. I'm part of that. I've made excuses for him since highschool. Frankly, I'm worn out making excuses. I know some will always want to make it about talent, and there's no denying his talent. But at some point, my personal principles have to trump whatever talent he has. Otherwise, I won't be able to look myself in the mirror.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Hey, we agree on something. We're probably being stupid when it comes to Porzingis, but it wouldn't be the first time for me.
jcwkings
All-Star
The fact that Cousins cursed out his coach and wasnt punished is the issue. He had been coddled by the organization and local media far too long. He would be crucified if he played in a bigger market with the kind of stuff he pulls. He thinks he can do what he wants because in his mind he is the only saving grace of the organization. Well yes this organization has been crap for a long time but you get as much of the blame as any variable.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So you are saying that was a good thing?
Good for you -- I think it was too. It was a wakeup call, and it shook us out of the last hopeless point we had reached. Well, not the fans, but this fanbase has been ill since last year.
That's what kills me. Did you see Omri's postgame interview? That is NOT what he should have looked like after having the best night of his career.
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
You can theoretically stay in the entire game if you just back away from everyone that comes near you. But it was in a tightly contested game where the warriors were attacking. I would really do the team no good if we are playing only 4 guys on defense.
jcwkings
All-Star
There are other ways to question a coach other than cursing him out in front of the entire team. The fact that you think its acceptable highlights what is wrong with this whole situation. It just screams Bush League all around.
jcwkings
All-Star
Imagine if Lebron was challenging players to fights in the tunnels lol. Only in Kings Land is this considered "an alpha male protecting his turf, respect Demarcus".
Then why would you bring the record into it, as if the two things are related? Barring something catastrophic happening tonight, we're going to be .500 since that incident occurred so, if that's your evidence of there being an issue, it doesn't seem to me as though the issue is all that serious.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You appear to have no idea whatsoever what goes on in the NBA. Cousins cursed out his coach, but there are also reports he may have been the one who saved him from a quick firing.
Meanwhile:
Magic Johnson led a mutiny to kill Paul Westhead as his coach because he didn't like the pace they played at. Not quietly, but he goes or I go.
Kobe has killed at least two coaches in Mike Brown and Rudy T, and blatantly insulted each of them before they left.
LeBron notoriously neutered David Blatt within a few months of meeting him. The Cavs had previously fired Mike Brown to try to appease him.
CP3 killed Vinny Del, some of the rumors there even implied there might be a racial reason, which was swell.
Shaq fired Stan Van Gundy
Ewing fired Don Nelson
just etc. etc.
Meanwhile despite what a whiny fanbase might believe DeMarcus Cousins has practically been a coach's best friend for some years now. He would have saved Malone if he could. He tried to save Corbin, who he seemed to hate playing for, because he didn't think the organization was treating him right. And when Karl tried to trade him this summer Cousins said he would go rather than demanding Karl's head. Depending on the report, after the early blowup he may AGAIN have explicitly not demanded Karl's head. Despite being used terribly and seeing his game suffer he STILL hasn't demanded his head, and issues trying to be coachable, want to stay in Sacramento my whole career statements that go consistently unnoticed by the poisonous mob that supposed Kings fans have become.
George Karl and Cousins seem to have reached some sort of accord. I can't even remember the last negative interview with Karl about Cousins. The problem is us. The fanbase. This is externally generated angst, maybe egged on by that imbecile Napear, I don't know. But there is a strange disconnect of Kings fans from what appears to be the situation on the ground.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Again you guys sound ridiculous. You're either very young or very new to the NBA.
Michael Jordan used to hit his own teammates in practice.
So did KG for that matter.
Do you know how many technical fouls Charles Barkley had in 1992-93? 32. 32, and he won MVP.
You know what one of the most cherished memories of Kings fans is? DOUG CHRISTIE, yes the same beloved talking head Doug Christie, getting into a brawl, in the tunnel, IN A PRESEASON game, with Rick Fox.
And hey, what do you know, Doug Christie, that noted team wrecking cancer:
And you know how we took that back then? It was a GOOD thing. It showed we weren't backing down from the Lakers
Don't even start to pin this on us fans. Many of us have been here since the beginning and suffered through NUMEROUS heartbreaking seasons and situations. The fans of Sacramento will accept the Kings with open arms probably more so than any other city. We love our Kings. We've been dealing with DMC's crap for SIX YEARS. It's the same thing every year. The team sucks and we have to witness his temper tantrums every single game. It gets old after a while. I honestly don't even like his body language when we win. Another poster pointed out how he acted against the Jazz a couple of weeks ago when he fouled out late in the game. He went over and pouted at the end to the bench even though we were a minute or so away from getting a W. That says it all to me. It's all about him and always has been.
You know the fan base has a legitimate reason to change their feelings on him when even Baja has had enough. Baja is probably one of the classiest posters here and rarely judges players. Well, even he has had enough. He made a great point about not being able to look at himself in the mirror if he continued to support a player like Cousins. I've felt the same way for about the past 2 years.
Yeah, this is all great but the problem is DMC is not Michael Jordan. He is not Barkley. He is not KG. He hasn't done squat in 6 years other than fill the stat sheet for teams that have failed to win 30 games. He doesn't make others around him better. He creates toxic environments and hasn't made any real change over the years. All of the players you mentioned above were winners. Almost all won multiple championships. They were team guys. If Jordan punched players in practice it was because they weren't doing what needed to be done to help the team win. If DMC punched a guy in practice it would probably be because he was being "disrespected" or some stupid crap like that.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And hence ITS ON YOU. The fans.
Your lack of intestinal fortitude is irrelevant to the situation on the ground. I do thank you for at least admitting the bias however.
The coach and franchise player seem to get along at this point. The franchise player and many of the other major players seem to get along. The franchise player and the GM get along. The franchise player is a major charitable force in the city.
So where's the problem? Where the source of this great and tremulous angst? Its the fans. Perhaps further damaged by a loudmouth radio host the same way our political system has been damaged by all the demagoguery, but its us. We're swirling about and creating our own fuss, and its perverted all logical analysis of the actual situation and relationships. Instead fans run around throwing their own angst into every analysis, having every player, coach and GM react and feel the way they themselves do. But its all based on smoke, mirrors, and shrieking.
People need to chill, step back, and look at the actual situation as it appears on the ground. Not just run around spewing bile in the twisted hope it takes root and destroys things.
Padrino
All-Star
New Era said:
so let's go ahead and name all of those glorious teammates who were doing what needed to be done to help the kings win across the last six years if it weren't for the petulance of demarcus cousins holding them back. context is everything, and far too many kings fans lack even a basic grasp of it. the truth is that cousins was drafted by the worst possible team for him. he's a tremendous talent that has long needed a stable environment in which to thrive, to learn what it takes to win. but he got stuck with the sacramento kings, a franchise so horrifically mismanaged in the last decade at all levels of the organization that it's frankly a wonder that demarcus has been able to develop at all. half of me continues to hope that DMC wises up and demands a trade out of this clusterf***, if only to find a fresh start with a franchise that's better equipped to build a team around him. does he have his problems? yes. but for all of this melodramatic handwringing over his behavioral issues, when he's been "healthy" this season, the kings are basically a .500 team. and anyone who was hoping for more than .500 from this team in their first full year under karl, with as much roster upheaval as this team has experienced in the last two seasons, needs to modify their expectations...
Did you even read my post? I think I spelled it out why the fans have finally had enough. It's not like the incident that happened in the Warriors game was the first thing that happened in six years. This stuff happens all the time with him and it's been happening for six years. Honestly, it's amazing to me at how patient most of us have been with him over the years.
The stuff you say is fine IF THE TEAM WAS WINNING. But they aren't. In fact, other than the beginning of last year under Malone, the team really hasn't even had a stretch of winning basketball in his 6 years here. He's having a bad year for him, is out of shape, and continues to show that he takes plays off and can quit on his team. Most of us have simply had enough of his act.
You really can't understand that?
KingsFanGER
Starter
Watching these videos makes me want to hop into a time machine just to watch some 90's NBA again.
Today Cousins is the bad boy of the league. Back in the days he would have been just one of those guys.
Today Cousins is the bad boy of the league. Back in the days he would have been just one of those guys.
Chubbs
Starter
So reading through these posts, well, not surprising.
The comments about Cuz playing no defense are pure fantasy. Cuz is the only player on this team that plays any defense. Please, folks, try to keep up with what is actually happening, not the voices in your heads. Especially if that voice is the red head who is actively pushing his trade Cousins narrative. He also pushed along the venom by stating the foul that led to the ejection was a clear foul on Cuz. No, it was on Mclemore first. Even Napear thought so initially. Then the ejection and he changed his mind setting up the next week on his toxic embarrassing radio show (let's hear Grant yell at callers for 4 hours!). But whatever. Doesn't justify the reaction but it also means he had a legit gripe. It wasn't a clear foul on Demarcus. The foul was on McLemore. But that's hardly the point anymore. It was just the excuse to get the narrative right where Grant wanted to lead it.
Some throw away ramblings by Barkley about being out of shape, Grant's endless vendetta (he really has no shame anymore) and most of the fan base decides Boogie's first ejection of the year is the final straw. Stop listening to Grant folks! He knows nothing. He's supposed to be the voice of the King's and he lets his own bitter personal feelings toward Boogie completely make his analysis pointless. He's a ****ing joke, an embarassment to the franchise. He's not supposed to be a fan, but he's also not supposed to let personal grudges affect his ability to do his job. And that's what he's doing. He has a rather huge grudge. If you miss the absolute delight he's taking in this you're not paying attention.
Let the overreactions continue!
The comments about Cuz playing no defense are pure fantasy. Cuz is the only player on this team that plays any defense. Please, folks, try to keep up with what is actually happening, not the voices in your heads. Especially if that voice is the red head who is actively pushing his trade Cousins narrative. He also pushed along the venom by stating the foul that led to the ejection was a clear foul on Cuz. No, it was on Mclemore first. Even Napear thought so initially. Then the ejection and he changed his mind setting up the next week on his toxic embarrassing radio show (let's hear Grant yell at callers for 4 hours!). But whatever. Doesn't justify the reaction but it also means he had a legit gripe. It wasn't a clear foul on Demarcus. The foul was on McLemore. But that's hardly the point anymore. It was just the excuse to get the narrative right where Grant wanted to lead it.
Some throw away ramblings by Barkley about being out of shape, Grant's endless vendetta (he really has no shame anymore) and most of the fan base decides Boogie's first ejection of the year is the final straw. Stop listening to Grant folks! He knows nothing. He's supposed to be the voice of the King's and he lets his own bitter personal feelings toward Boogie completely make his analysis pointless. He's a ****ing joke, an embarassment to the franchise. He's not supposed to be a fan, but he's also not supposed to let personal grudges affect his ability to do his job. And that's what he's doing. He has a rather huge grudge. If you miss the absolute delight he's taking in this you're not paying attention.
Let the overreactions continue!
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I don't think you got what I meant. There is nothing that we can do here on the forum that has any impact whether it is in a positive situation or negative. I was hoping we could move on as I don't know what else can be said.
My personal feelings are different than yours but they ARE personal. In fact as I think about it, you may have exposed one part of the back and forth that is unspoken yet has a major effect on what is written. The personal feelings, sets of principles, or whatever we wish to call them, are fueling what people are writing. As the principles are personal, they will not change. Let us not be naive and think that logic is the only factor involved in this discussion.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The accusation was "the antics", such as they are, were what separated Cousins from the greats.
Anybody who knows the history of the league can tell you they are not.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The team is playing .500 ball with Cousins.
And he hasn't been tossed from a game in nearly a year.
It is you, the fans, who are perpetuating a nightmare of your own making.
The bad year is on Karl, but if there is a silver lining its that with more rational coaching there is room for improvement and hence another gear for the team.
jcwkings
All-Star
How are things people are writing personal? Nobody here knows Cousins or just about any NBA player in history on a personal level, I would guess. Most of us will probably only ever shake the hand and get an autograph of an NBA player let alone a star. My negative towards Cousins is based on 6 years episode after episode and knowing what wins in the NBA and what doesnt. You can provide all the stats you want but a guy that loses his mind at the first hint of adversity is not a buliding block you want as your best player. Chemistry, morale, heart and hard work trump talent in this league until you reach the very pinnacle, at which point yes the team with the most talented player usually wins because both teams are playing with heart and have great chemistry and the special player is the difference maker. You will never get to that pinnacle with Cousins though because he disrupts all those aspects to a team that are important, you will never get to the point where his talent gets you over the top unless he changes dramatically. At what point do you keep hoping for change and realize maybe this is how he will always be?
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