[Game] Kings v. Thunder - Wednesday, Dec. 19 - 7PT/10ET

[sactowndog]

They need more than that. Team needs a competant 3.. Adding another PG or Big they won't do.
They Have Bagley coming back, Giles, WCS, and Joerger loves Koufas.

Kings will get next to nothing for WCS. The way he's been playing over the past month. Teams are already on notice about WCS. He's not a good player.

You all do know the place Giles went was not just a regular G league game but the showcase in Vegas designed to highlight players for NBA teams. The last players on contract we sent their was PappaG and Malachi. Do you see either on the team now?

 

[Joshoua]

You don’t give big bucks to players always talking about money, I’m looking at you wcs

 

[Nokidding]

You can't win a game that means something when you give any playing time to Skal/Mclemore and Williams despite starting off strong has really been terrible that to me was a make or break game for him. Adams trashing WCS was huge cause I thought Buddy/Fox matched Brook/George

 

[The Hammer]

The second Willie Cauley-$tein died and left only the old WCS

https://twitter.com/x/status/1075629977784078338

Oh boy...

 

[Livinthedream]

Kings have given mclemore 7,535 nba minutes. Has any nba team ever given that many minutes to such a terrible player? I don’t know if it’s just the loss tonight or what, but I think Ben is genuinely one of the worst players I’ve ever seen and I’ve been watching the nba since the very early 80’s.

I think it's the unending attention Ben is given, as though he is the sole reason for our wins and losses. An over critical eye. The team did not do any favors in giving Ben minutes over the years. No matter who the Kings brought in, he still out performed or matched them at the time. Stauskus, Belinelli, James Anderson, Afflalo. Didn't matter. If there was someone better, Ben would have sat. Now he's at the end of the bench and has gotten almost no time this year except in practice. Barely suits up. But we expected him to come out and do what against the Thunder? He's just our favorite whipping boy. We throw all our frustration at the guy who looks like he won't fight back.

 

[Livinthedream]

Ideally for a serious playoff run the Kings would upgrade the backup PG spot (the PG's spot on the depth chart costs so little. we can easily afford a proper backup...) and an upgrade for Troy Williams(and dare I say McLemore), and you could make the case for some sort of bruiser-5thbig-type

I agree with this. We need a big body down low and a consistent veteran backup PG. Yes, we still need a SF too. It's why it's amazing how well we've played with so many holes. We're riding on Fox's cape right now.

 

[Ozymandias]

The thing is that Bogie is effectively our backup PG. Yogi and Frank are essentially third PGs on our squad.

I really don't agree with this, there's no good reason as to why that should be, like I said originally if the Idea is to make a serious playoff push......
Yogi and Frank are getting like 14 minutes a game each. Troy Williams gets 15MPG... On other teams these guys would never see the light of day, this is one of the ripple effects from keeping the roster flexible.

If you count Bogey as a PG, the Kings still can easily afford, and use, a real backup PG... Fox costs $5.5MM, Bogdan $9MM, Yogi $3MM and Frank $1.4MM..... Thats only $19MM Total and Yogi and Mason can be expiring if they want...

If Bogey's a PG look at the cost of the SG's ($20.3MM with $16MM expiring in Shump and McLemore), and SF's, it's a pittance, the Kings can EASILY afford upgrades...

With Justin Jackson and Troy Williams holding down the SF spot thats less than $4MM allocated to the position, thats gotta be BY-FAR the lowest in the league...


Look at the cost of the Kings active roster... It's dirt cheap... Fact - The Celtics pay Al Horford and Gordon Hayward about as much as the entire active Kings roster...

Lets not forget this is the cheapest team salary in the league, AND, the teams highest paid player Zach Randolph hasn't logged a minute...

 

[Sac.Kings]

The second Willie Cauley-$tein died and left only the old WCS

https://twitter.com/x/status/1075629977784078338

Wow. How does one interpret that? They make more money than I do so I let them push me around and give them my lunch money? Or I’m not paid as much so I won’t put out as much effort as they do?

 

[Ozymandias]

They need more than that. Team needs a competant 3.. Adding another PG or Big they won't do.
They Have Bagley coming back, Giles, WCS, and Joerger loves Koufas.

Kings will get next to nothing for WCS. The way he's been playing over the past month. Teams are already on notice about WCS. He's not a good player.

Thought I covered that with "Upgrade for Troy Williams", the right PG or COMBO would have a positive effect and would help cut fat from the wing rotation though, Shumpert and Bogdan would play more 3, Lets say Corey Joseph on the Pacers, who's 6'3" with long arms.

 

[Ozymandias]

Wow. How does one interpret that? They make more money than I do so I let them push me around and give them my lunch money? Or I’m not paid as much so I won’t put out as much effort as they do?

I'm pretty sure that quote is being misinterpreted by the older folks here. It's motivational, there's a bit of accountability in there, Willie is talking about his goals and talking about examples in the league he looks up to. What he's saying is true...

 

[kingsboi]

The only time the Kings had a chance in this game was when the Thunder got bored and started jacking up outside shots. George went for the kill and drove the paint with a mission and posted up for easy shots. The next teams on the schedule are going to be following the the Wolves and Thunder game plan: relentlessly attack the Kings in the paint. Grizzlies, Pelicans, Clippers, Lakers (2x) and Portland are all going to attack, attack, and attack in the painted area. The Kings better figure it out. Soon.

welp, if the same Kings team shows up that we witnessed last night, I'll be tuning out early

 

[Ozymandias]

A trade is immenent

oh yeah. 7 weeks til the deadline. Kings figure to be one of the more active teams at the deadline as far as I can see.

 

[kingsboi]

Maybe getting manhandled by Adams gave him a concussion or something.

I mean Adams was having a beverage on the bench when the camera was put on him and it looked like it might of been a coffee or something warm because of the paper cup with lid so it was smooth sailing

 

[Livinthedream]

Wow. How does one interpret that? They make more money than I do so I let them push me around and give them my lunch money? Or I’m not paid as much so I won’t put out as much effort as they do?

Man, Willie needs to step up his sound bite game. We shouldn't have to interpret basketball quotes.

I took it 2 ways. First that he was complimenting Adams saying he gets paid big because he can do those things at will. The other part is that it really seems this is the first year that Willie is taking notice of what it takes to be a top notch NBA center in this league. Kinda scary that it took this long. He's is observation mode instead of production mode. He should have been paying attention since day 1.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I'm pretty sure that quote is being misinterpreted by the older folks here. It's motivational, there's a bit of accountability in there, Willie is talking about his goals and talking about examples in the league he looks up to. What he's saying is true...

Did you watch the video? My first impression of the quote was the same as yours. However, the video shows a reporter asking questions essentially setting Willie up to say something along the lines that you suggest. He doesn’t. If anything, he comes off as thinking thus he’s already that good, too.

Interviews aren’t everything, of course. And maybe Willie just doesn’t know/care to use the sound bites we’re used to. I’ve long defended Willie on this site, though, and this time he’s puzzled me

 

[ppine]

Billy Donovan is a good coach. I can just hear him in the locker room. "Let's go outrebound these dudes." "If they want to run, we will just run with them."

A couple of observations. Iman was sorely missed on the defensive end. He stopped George last game, , but last night without Shumpert, he got 43 points. Jackson and Ben had no chance to stop him.

Adams had his best rebounding game of his career getting 23 boards. It is not an accident that he got 20 points and 23 boards against Skal and Willie. They are too soft. Even Kosta did not slow him down much. I was watching Adams at the beginning of the game. He was squeezing the ball, pounding the ball on the floor, swinging his arms around. I could just see him going into warrior mode. Adams is not bigger than Skal and Willie, he is a little less athletic maybe, but he has desire. The Kings could really use a player like Adams. It is a missing piece.

I woke up this morning thinking about the game by the Fox and Buddy. Holy Cats. It reminded me of Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Gail Goodrich. These guys are good. They deserve more credit, especially Buddy. Westbrook got his triple double, but our guards played pretty good defense to go with all of that scoring. Fox may set the career record for blocks by a guard. I was in disbelief watching the block deep in the left hand corner from three. We have great guards on this team.

Without Shumpert and Bogi we are weak at the three.
Without Bagley we are kind of weak at the 4. Bjelica runs hot and cold.

Willie is a competent player, but mentally he can't get out of his own way. If I am Vlade and Joeger I am looking for a rim protector that is a great rebounder. All we need from the 5 are those two things and a guy that can roll to the basket for jams. Fox and Bogi will find him.

Interior defense and defensive rebounding are the Kings two weaknesses. The Thunder expoited both. We were outcoached last night, but having a few players on the bench really hurt the Kings' chances.

 

[Kingster]

Billy Donovan is a good coach. I can just hear him in the locker room. "Let's go outrebound these dudes." "If they want to run, we will just run with them."

A couple of observations. Iman was sorely missed on the defensive end. He stopped George last game, , but last night without Shumpert, he got 43 points. Jackson and Ben had no chance to stop him.

Adams had his best rebounding game of his career getting 23 boards. It is not an accident that he got 20 points and 23 boards against Skal and Willie. They are too soft. Even Kosta did not slow him down much. I was watching Adams at the beginning of the game. He was squeezing the ball, pounding the ball on the floor, swinging his arms around. I could just see him going into warrior mode. Adams is not bigger than Skal and Willie, he is a little less athletic maybe, but he has desire. The Kings could really use a player like Adams. It is a missing piece.

I woke up this morning thinking about the game by the Fox and Buddy. Holy Cats. It reminded me of Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Gail Goodrich. These guys are good. They deserve more credit, especially Buddy. Westbrook got his triple double, but our guards played pretty good defense to go with all of that scoring. Fox may set the career record for blocks by a guard. I was in disbelief watching the block deep in the left hand corner from three. We have great guards on this team.

Without Shumpert and Bogi we are weak at the three.
Without Bagley we are kind of weak at the 4. Bjelica runs hot and cold.

Willie is a competent player, but mentally he can't get out of his own way. If I am Vlade and Joeger I am looking for a rim protector that is a great rebounder. All we need from the 5 are those two things and a guy that can roll to the basket for jams. Fox and Bogi will find him.

Interior defense and defensive rebounding are the Kings two weaknesses. The Thunder expoited both. We were outcoached last night, but having a few players on the bench really hurt the Kings' chances.

Agreed on the bolded.

What distinguished this game was not only the Kings absent with injury, but also the fact that the Thunder finally decided to go inside with a purpose. In the prior games, they didn't. Certainly, in the prior games they didn't go inside to Adams. He was an afterthought, with Westbrook and his high usage jacking up outside shots as the central focus. George was also secondary. The Thunder seemed to have finally figured out how to play.

 

[kb02]

JJ is playing the best basketball of his life and is looking like he's starting to separate himself from Troy Williams (who qualifies for the dumbest BBIQ on the team). There's levels and JJ is (going to be) clearly on a different level than Williams.

That said, lose your starting 3, your 6th man and secondary ball handler, and your high motor, first big off the bench and the results are not surprising. Bogs and Shump don't play on Friday and it's another L. The replacements (Skal--thanks for reminding us why you're on the bench) just aren't NBA level players.

 

[ppine]

Jackson is playing better, but let's not forget that George got 43 points last night. We missed Shumpert in a big way.

 

[Blob]

The second Willie Cauley-$tein died and left only the old WCS

https://twitter.com/x/status/1075629977784078338

Wow this guy has no self-awareness. If WC$ got paid 1 billion dollars he could not rebound or defend like Steven Adams.

Willie Cauley $ is a fraud like Justin Jackson is a fraud. Jackson got posterized by Paul George who put up an monster stat line (43 / 12 / 7 ) with ease and went beast mode. Jackson gets dunked on brutally and reacts like he is taking his puppy dog for a stroll in the park. No indignation, no push back and no testicular fortitude to be a man not a mouse.

Between Willie and Jackson I have never seen two players more comfortable with getting owned and out-toughed. It is a sad state of affairs when we are trying to stay in the playoff chase!

In a combined 69 minutes these two losers committed a total of 2 fouls! It is a shame to have such a brilliant performance by our backcourt go to waste because these two coasters go through the motions. I don't think we win regardless last night missing 30 points from MB3 and Boggy. We needed Yogi to have a game and he was terrible. But I do think we should have started Troy Williams on Paul George. He would have bothered him more. When you let a guy get going, it is like a firehouse. It is hard to turn off.

I am not sure how valid this is but it seems role players have a hard time under the Joerger System. Is this a thing? Role players seem to have an especially hard time carving at their niche, guys like Omri a couple years back, Yogi and Mason this year, and many others. I don't know if they are just not that good, or something about Joerger system or style that inhibits these guys. Troy Williams for example was impactful early now he is really fading. We should be getting more out of him and it is not happening. That's on the player to an extent but I think the coach too.

 

[Blob]

JJ is playing the best basketball of his life and is looking like he's starting to separate himself from Troy Williams (who qualifies for the dumbest BBIQ on the team). There's levels and JJ is (going to be) clearly on a different level than Williams.

That said, lose your starting 3, your 6th man and secondary ball handler, and your high motor, first big off the bench and the results are not surprising. Bogs and Shump don't play on Friday and it's another L. The replacements (Skal--thanks for reminding us why you're on the bench) just aren't NBA level players.

If Jackson is playing the "best basketball of his life" we should have tried to trade him to the Suns for Kelly Oubre, a guy with 2X the talent. Jackson's numbers are anemic. He's soft defensively, doesn't draw fouls and chokes on open threes. But if you are down 30 points in Minnesota, watch out, here comes JJ!

 

[Blob]

Buddy TS% 60%
Klay TS% 53%

Last year at this time Buddy was averaging 12 PPG. He was struggling in the Z-Bo system of throw it into the post and get out of his way. Who wouldn't struggle in this system? Alas he has emerged as the star I envisioned going to back to his 65% TS% at OSU. I knew Buddy would compensate for his length and athleticism through activity and work ethic. This is how he was going to close the gap, fundamentals footwork and superior effort. The guy leads the league (or near the top) in distance travelled per game. Amidst guys who are floundering (Willie, Yogi, Giles), Buddy is flourishing. It is beautiful to see, he can play at this level and better for at least the next 4 years after this one.

Buddy three points: 14th in NBA
Klay three points: 106th in NBA

Buddy has been fairly criticized for his loose handles. He has improved his assist to turnover ratio from 1.2 to 1.3. This can get closer to 1.5 or even 2.0. Also Buddy needs to shoot more than 2 FTAs. This will push his TS% even higher, his PER to 20.0 or higher, and make him borderline all-star in this season and next 5 years. Buddy was struggling early with home performance. That is in the past too, with an average of 35 PPG over his last two games. We have several problems on this team, Buddy is not one of them. As Fox-Buddy backcourt realize how much havoc they can wreck on the league it is only going to get better. Who is going to join them, that is the question.

 

[FoxOnTheRun]

Couple observations from behind our bench last night:

Shumpert spent the entire game coaching up our young guys, spending most of his time with Justin Jackson. You can just tell he's pulling for him. Really hope we hold on to this guy. Leadership and experience is key.

Westbrook screamed "I'm fast too!!!" as loud as he could after blowing by Fox on a fast break.

Bjelica was in his own head the entire game and was totally gun shy. Missing Bogi?

Coach doesn't seem to like Ben at all. He screamed at him the entire game. More than any other player.

Kosta and Skal gotta go. If you can't run or score, you better rebound and play defense. Sorry guys. NEXT!

last but not least, i'll state the obvious... Fox and Buddy are future stars. Russ and PG are current stars. Rough game but we've got a bright future for the first time in years.

 

[Kingster]

Couple observations from behind our bench last night:

Shumpert spent the entire game coaching up our young guys, spending most of his time with Justin Jackson. You can just tell he's pulling for him. Really hope we hold on to this guy. Leadership and experience is key.

Westbrook screamed "I'm fast too!!!" as loud as he could after blowing by Fox on a fast break.

Bjelica was in his own head the entire game and was totally gun shy. Missing Bogi?

Coach doesn't seem to like Ben at all. He screamed at him the entire game. More than any other player.

Kosta and Skal gotta go. If you can't run or score, you better rebound and play defense. Sorry guys. NEXT!

last but not least, i'll state the obvious... Fox and Buddy are future stars. Russ and PG are current stars. Rough game but we've got a bright future for the first time in years.

LOL about the Westbrook comments. All that needed to happen would be for Adams to come in with a chorus: "And I'm strong too!" and the song would have been complete.

 

[SLAB]

He’s probably so hard on McBen because he’s a practice all-star but reverts to “Ive never touched a basketball in my life” once he steps into a real game. Lol

 

[VF21]

Yeah, I have a soft-spot for McBen.

Does his game warrant criticism? Yes.

Did he live up to his draft position? No.

Is he ever going to help this team meaningfully? No.

Did he do anything wrong that “helped give OKC the lead” tonight? No. Absolutely not. McBen could save a puppy from a burning building and he’d be shamed for tracking ashes onto the front porch.

I'm not reading the rest of the game thread (I don't need that much depression ), but I will respond to this. You're right. I was overly harsh with Ben last night. I wouldn't shame him if he rescued a puppy, however.

 

[VF21]

Did you watch the video? My first impression of the quote was the same as yours. However, the video shows a reporter asking questions essentially setting Willie up to say something along the lines that you suggest. He doesn’t. If anything, he comes off as thinking thus he’s already that good, too.

Interviews aren’t everything, of course. And maybe Willie just doesn’t know/care to use the sound bites we’re used to. I’ve long defended Willie on this site, though, and this time he’s puzzled me

You and me both.

 

[ppine]

Blob brings up an important point about testicular fortitude. Skal and Willie tap people on the wrist or make slight hip bump. Koufus knocked a guy to the floor last night. He knocks the ball out of people's hands. He makes his fouls count. Has Willie or Skal ever taken a charge this year? Yogi and Fox do it pretty often. Fox is good at mental warfare and stands up to Westbrook . If we hadn't been outscored in the paint 412 to 5 we could have won that game.

Foul somebody like you mean it Get called for over the back. Take the ball away from someone. Get in somebody's face. Just once. Show some balls.

 

[burekijogurt]

LOL about the Westbrook comments. All that needed to happen would be for Adams to come in with a chorus: "And I'm strong too!" and the song would have been complete.

Adams don't need to say it

 

[ppine]

Adams plays hard. He stays under control, but I can see the rage under the surface. He and Shumpert are the kind of guys I liked to play with because no one can intimidate them No one.