[Game] Kings v. Thunder - Wednesday, Jan. 29 - 7PT/10ET

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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
#1
Kings will be without Bagley and Holmes.
Thunder will be without Ferguson (personal reasons) while Nader is questionable (left ankle).

I imagine the Kings will start off the night with a tribute to Kobe, but afterwards? As usual, the question will be which Kings team will we see? And when will we see them?

GO KINGS!
 
Heuge

Heuge

Starter
#2
#2
I think that coming off of a long road trip, an emotional win, missing two bigs against a legit center on a good team, the Kings will struggle. I don’t expect a win. I hope they prove me wrong.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#6
#6
jcassio said:
I expect a win. I expect a winning streak. I expect a big winning streak. If they just unleash the beast, Harry Giles, and keep Buddy as a 6th man with something to prove.
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You can only unleash someone if he's capable of staying on the floor for longer than five minutes without fouling everything that moves.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#7
#7
Jason Jones's new article on The Athletic had an interesting little passage about how the Kings outlook has changed over the past week and really just made me wonder about how crapty a teammate Trevor Ariza might have been.



The block was epic, but what could have longer-lasting effects is the talk Giles referenced. Kent Bazemore and Anthony Tolliver led that talk on Jan. 23. They’d played only one game with the Kings this season, having been acquired Jan. 21 in a trade with Portland. With the Kings saddled with a six-game losing streak and losses of 15 of 18, the two newest Kings had a message — it’s not nearly as bad you all think.
...

“We saw right away they don’t need a miracle to turn things around, that really uplifted me as well,” Bazemore said. “Because you come into a situation, from the outside looking in. When you’re with a different team, you’re focused on you, you’re not really worried about anyone else. Coming in you’re just trying to collect your data, see the different dynamics and you go out on the floor and try to figure it out.”
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https://theathletic.com/1565100/202...s-season-for-the-kings/?source=shared-article

Also Bazemore has been a pretty good depth piece on the perimeter who's essentially playing the defensive role player role we all assumed JJ would get once Ariza was out of the picture.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#8
#8
VF21 said:
Kings will be without Bagley and Holmes.
Thunder will be without Ferguson (personal reasons) while Nader is questionable (left ankle).

I imagine the Kings will start off the night with a tribute to Kobe, but afterwards? As usual, the question will be which Kings team will we see? And when will we see them?

GO KINGS!
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Who the heck is Nader? Isn't that some consumer advocate?:)

The Bagley thing just continues to kill me. What the heck is going on?
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#9
#9
Kingster said:
Who the heck is Nader? Isn't that some consumer advocate?:)

The Bagley thing just continues to kill me. What the heck is going on?
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Stealth tank.

Also no reason to accidentally ruin the dude's career by putting him back out there before he's completely healed up
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#10
#10
Tetsujin said:
You can only unleash someone if he's capable of staying on the floor for longer than five minutes without fouling everything that moves.
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Like all those fouls he committed when he was balling against Chicago? This narrative is silly now. Sure he’s still a bit foul prone but he isn’t picking up 6 fouls in 6 minutes anymore, and he hasn’t (outside of only a select few games) since the GLeague stint last season.

Stupid/silly fouls are another discussion.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#11
#11
SLAB said:
Like all those fouls he committed when he was balling against Chicago? This narrative is silly now. Sure he’s still a bit foul prone but he isn’t picking up 6 fouls in 6 minutes anymore, and he hasn’t (outside of only a select few games) since the GLeague stint last season.

Stupid/silly fouls are another discussion.
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Well, the sample size is smaller, but Giles was committing 8.5 fouls per 100 possessions last year and is now up to 10.4 fouls per 100 possessions this year, so I'm not sure we can say that he's solved the problem.

That does put him second in the league behind only Chris Silva of the Heat (12.8) among players with at least 200 minutes this year, and Harry is first among players who have played at least 1000 minutes over the last two seasons (8.9/100). And, what perhaps doesn't sound quite so bad, 40th all-time (since '73-'74, no per-possession data before that) in fouls per possession over a career of at least 1000 minutes (39th: Jon Brockman).
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#12
#12
SLAB said:
Like all those fouls he committed when he was balling against Chicago? This narrative is silly now. Sure he’s still a bit foul prone but he isn’t picking up 6 fouls in 6 minutes anymore, and he hasn’t (outside of only a select few games) since the GLeague stint last season.

Stupid/silly fouls are another discussion.
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You can't point to the one time where everything went right and he didn't foul as an example of him getting his foul issues under control. He's fouling more per possession than last season for whatever it's worth.
 
Showtime

Showtime

Starter
#13
#13
Tetsujin said:
You can't point to the one time where everything went right and he didn't foul as an example of him getting his foul issues under control. He's fouling more per possession than last season for whatever it's worth.
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But it doesn't matter. If he's only getting 15 minutes, he's getting 15 minutes. Who cares if he gets 5 fouls or fouls out? Play him until he's out or until he's putting teams into the penalty.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#15
#15
Showtime said:
But it doesn't matter. If he's only getting 15 minutes, he's getting 15 minutes. Who cares if he gets 5 fouls or fouls out? Play him until he's out or until he's putting teams into the penalty.
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Because fouling at an uncontrollably high rate leads to a bevy of other issues that would make Harry a net negative on the floor. Against the T-Wolves, Harry got himself into foul trouble so quickly that he played himself out of a second stretch of basketball for the night. Harry picking up dumb fouls quickly means more time in the penalty for the other team, leading to more points with the clock stopped for the other team, and forcing the team to play less aggressively on defense.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#16
#16
Tetsujin said:
Stealth tank.

Also no reason to accidentally ruin the dude's career by putting him back out there before he's completely healed up
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Last week Grant went on a frustration rant about Bagley's injury, saying something like, "He should just it down for a month. It's better than playing and then not playing after a game or two." Maybe Bagley took his advice.
 
Kings_of_California

Kings_of_California

Starter
#17
#17
Capt. Factorial said:
Well, the sample size is smaller, but Giles was committing 8.5 fouls per 100 possessions last year and is now up to 10.4 fouls per 100 possessions this year, so I'm not sure we can say that he's solved the problem.

That does put him second in the league behind only Chris Silva of the Heat (12.8) among players with at least 200 minutes this year, and Harry is first among players who have played at least 1000 minutes over the last two seasons (8.9/100). And, what perhaps doesn't sound quite so bad, 40th all-time (since '73-'74, no per-possession data before that) in fouls per possession over a career of at least 1000 minutes (39th: Jon Brockman).
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That's Sacramento Kings LEGEND Jon Brockman to you, sir.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#19
#19
Tetsujin said:
Because fouling at an uncontrollably high rate leads to a bevy of other issues that would make Harry a net negative on the floor. Against the T-Wolves, Harry got himself into foul trouble so quickly that he played himself out of a second stretch of basketball for the night. Harry picking up dumb fouls quickly means more time in the penalty for the other team, leading to more points with the clock stopped for the other team, and forcing the team to play less aggressively on defense.
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Look at our frickin record. Is it too much to ask that we give Giles some real minutes and see if the fouling improves?
If a player is shooting 30% in limited minutes, do you just assume that they would shoot 30% if they got major minutes? Of course not. So there’s no reason to assume that Giles fouling rate is a constant regardless of minutes.
 
J

jiimbob

Starter
#20
#20
jcassio said:
Look at our frickin record. Is it too much to ask that we give Giles some real minutes and see if the fouling improves?
If a player is shooting 30% in limited minutes, do you just assume that they would shoot 30% if they got major minutes? Of course not. So there’s no reason to assume that Giles fouling rate is a constant regardless of minutes.
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hey I’m no expert, in fact this year is probably the least I have followed the Kings since before they arrived in Sac however, from my armchair I see little reason not to give Harry some serious PT. It’s not like the Kings have invested any financial future in him and it might of helped from trade value or future decisions on him.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#21
#21
jcassio said:
Look at our frickin record. Is it too much to ask that we give Giles some real minutes and see if the fouling improves?
If a player is shooting 30% in limited minutes, do you just assume that they would shoot 30% if they got major minutes? Of course not. So there’s no reason to assume that Giles fouling rate is a constant regardless of minutes.
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They're in a Catch-22 situation a lot of the time. They'd give him more minutes, but he collects fouls to the point where they cannot rely on him to make it through the game. He's not only a foul magnet, he's a foul target. There are a lot of players out there smart enough to put Giles into a situation where drawing a foul from him is ridiculously easy.

I like what I see at times from Harry but he is not at this point much more than a lot of potential that hasn't yet come to fruition.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
#22
jiimbob said:
hey I’m no expert, in fact this year is probably the least I have followed the Kings since before they arrived in Sac however, from my armchair I see little reason not to give Harry some serious PT. It’s not like the Kings have invested any financial future in him and it might of helped from trade value or future decisions on him.
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His trade value right now is minimal, I believe. He's on a rookie expiring contract.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#23
#23
VF21 said:
His trade value right now is minimal, I believe. He's on a rookie expiring contract.
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It's not just that, but also that any team that trades for him also accepts the handcuff the Kings have - they can't offer him more than $4M next year if they want to re-sign him regardless of their cap situation. So if he doesn't play well, nobody will want to trade for him because he's not playing well, and if he plays out of his mind, nobody will want to trade for him because that would prevent them from being able to sign him in the offseason.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#26
#26
I tried to watch some of the TWolves game but my heart couldn’t get into it. I’ll try again tonight... we’ll see if I can take it.
 
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