[Game] Kings @ Bucks, 2/21/21 6pm PST, 9pm EST

Yep. Speed view via DVR.

I won’t put in the effort of watching live and in full until they put in the effort of trying to win like they did during the 7 of 8 streak. I was watching intently then. Then it took 2-3 games after to recognize that they weren’t worthy of planning my evening around and watching live again.
I heard whispers of the prodigal son returning...the Superstar that was promised...the former #2 pick of the Milwaukee Bucks...

I couldn’t not watch the last two games to get a look at my and SLAB’s main man...and I was delighted to see Bags and Ty looking really good.

Hang in there Kings Fans...we have hung in this long...what’s a little bit longer? DQJ has also got some dog in him! He is a keeper.
 
I heard whispers of the prodigal son returning...the Superstar that was promised...the former #2 pick of the Milwaukee Bucks...

I couldn’t not watch the last two games to get a look at my and SLAB’s main man...and I was delighted to see Bags and Ty looking really good.

Hang in there Kings Fans...we have hung in this long...what’s a little bit longer? DQJ has also got some dog in him! He is a keeper.
I do like DQJ. Hopefully as he rounds back into form he’ll prove to be future building block.

Swipa, Hali are for sure. MB3 is showing flashes. DQJ often looks like the type of athletic 2-way wing the KINGS desperately need. Hopefully he can stay healthy and continue to develop.
 
i hope that’s it, but his demeanor seems off as well.
Probably already been discussed else where, but Fox's face, talking, and hair give up his attitude. Last year he was a chatterbox with smile and giggles all the time. This year there is nary a smile and he rarely talks up his team mates or opponents.

His short hair goes along with this change. No longer the brash youngster twirling his locks, he has become the sour vet. Something serious is up with him as if he has lost the joy in the game. Of course, losing night after night despite his efforts might do that to anyone.
 
Probably already been discussed else where, but Fox's face, talking, and hair give up his attitude. Last year he was a chatterbox with smile and giggles all the time. This year there is nary a smile and he rarely talks up his team mates or opponents.

His short hair goes along with this change. No longer the brash youngster twirling his locks, he has become the sour vet. Something serious is up with him as if he has lost the joy in the game. Of course, losing night after night despite his efforts might do that to anyone.
Sour vet? Lost the joy in the game?

I don't know the young man. But it could be something much simpler. If you are raised to respect your elders and those who have authority over you but they/that individual has shown themselves unworthy of that respect, where do you go? Undermining that authority isn't an option yet, yet the status quo is unpalatable.

My two cents with change expected back.....
 
Probably already been discussed else where, but Fox's face, talking, and hair give up his attitude. Last year he was a chatterbox with smile and giggles all the time. This year there is nary a smile and he rarely talks up his team mates or opponents.

His short hair goes along with this change. No longer the brash youngster twirling his locks, he has become the sour vet. Something serious is up with him as if he has lost the joy in the game. Of course, losing night after night despite his efforts might do that to anyone.
Wow this is the biggest of reaches I've seen on here. "twirling his locks" what the heck? "giggles all the time?" "nary a smile?" For a min I thought I was reading little women.

All creditability is lost if a hair cut is part of your argument. BTW Fox was smiling plenty for 7/8 games when they were rolling over teams. While it may seem like a long time ago. Its only been about a week. Have you ever heard of this guy Michael Jordan? Well here's a little story about this Jordan guy. He wasn't smiling that much during his first 7 years while he was getting his head kicked in. I don't think he smiled that much in general btw cause he was always trying to kill people himself. It took Jordan 7 years to win his first title. Side note Fox isn't Jordan. Jordan was also 28 when he won his first title. Fox is 23!!!!!! Also the first time Jordan made the playoffs the teams record was 38-44. The second time was 30-52!!! So keep in mind we play in the West and its a death march right now. Its not as easy a path as it was for Jordan in the beginning.

Theres nothing serious going on with Fox right now. Its a fact that he just sat out a game hurt. I'm pretty confident hes not 100% right now, but.... because WE ALL KNOW and he does too. That if he sits we have no chance. So he's playing anyway. Also if Holmes sits we're pretty screwed also. We don't have the talent to have key players injured or out. We got lucky for most of the year avoiding injuries. It sucks that its basically hitting everyone now at the same time.

This team wasn't a serious playoff team right now in the west.

Things to consider or things that matter are:
#1 Fox takes that next Superstar step. I think he proved that before he hurt himself literally doing everything for 8 games.
#2 Bagley stays alive and also takes that next step. Look if you told me he was gonna stay healthy and shoot 39% from 3 this year I'd consider that a huge victory. We know he can rebound and without question hes improving defensively. What else can you ask for? Hes on the right path.
#3 find more talent. AKA the draft. Tyrese is a stud. Potentially a star himself in a few years (kinda one right now).
#4 this team doesn't have a SF still. THATS A PROBLEM. Barnes truly is best (when healthy) at the 4. This team needs better wings. Maybe Woodard in the future? but right now its a major weakness.

Anyway this all is making Monty's job easier and his direction clear. I'd wait till the trade deadline before I start making judgments about things being all doom and gloom. We have a legit Front office for the first time basically ever. The trade they made that was shot down was encouraging as far as talent for us. It wasn't our fault it failed. Its also not his fault Giles and Bogdan were lost.

Ok so to come full circle. I think Fox's locks or nary a smile aren't the problem. I thinks hes fine. For the first time in forever I have faith that the people in charge are competent. The problem is talent around Fox and its gonna take a min to sort out and fix.
 
So last night we hear the shocking truth that the Kings' defense is at the bottom of the NBA.
Until that gets addressed again, all other discussions are not that important.
 
The Good: Youngsters are Playing
Ty tied career high in points and had a career high in field goals made
Guy had a career high in points and field goals made
DQJ had a career high in points
Woodard and Ramsey are getting burn in G-League. Both have shown some flashes and athleticism. Woodard is contributing in ways that should immediately transfer, such as rebounding.

The Bad: Hield and Bagley are Playing
Chavano is averaging 34% from the field and 29% from downtown in February. In comparison Ty is at 52% and 48%. Hield is a one-man momentum killer. His poor shot selection is almost as bad as his "defense," ok, it's worse. He fouls when the ball is stolen and fouls for and-ones are almost as bad as his careless passing.

Some will argue with Bagley. They will look at his numbers and say he is doing well. He is not. He is athletic as h3ll but can't defend the 4 or the 5. Name a team we played and I will tell you a 4 or 5 that had a monster game or career night. Thad Young strolled across the paint twice, Thad Young! If Bagley cannot defend the T. Youngs then. . . well, you know. He cannot defend without fouling, he can't maintain position, doesn't block out. He just doesn't work; instead he relies on athleticism. On the offensive end he has an improved 3pt shot but can only make HALF of his free throws. He is a black hole on offense and almost never passes out of the paint; instead he forces too many horrible shots.

What the Team Needs
Some form of consistency with the lineups. Not just game to game, but within games.

WTH Walton?
Why play cojo at the 3? Why play Whiteside or Bagley heavy minutes then ice them for 2nd half or 4th Q? Why play DQJ heavy minutes coming off a back injury? Why ignore minutes restrictions? Why DNP-CD players for dozens of games then throw them out there for major roles and minutes?
 
The Bad: Hield and Bagley are Playing
Chavano is averaging 34% from the field and 29% from downtown in February. In comparison Ty is at 52% and 48%. Hield is a one-man momentum killer. His poor shot selection is almost as bad as his "defense," ok, it's worse. He fouls when the ball is stolen and fouls for and-ones are almost as bad as his careless passing.

Some will argue with Bagley. They will look at his numbers and say he is doing well. He is not. He is athletic as h3ll but can't defend the 4 or the 5. Name a team we played and I will tell you a 4 or 5 that had a monster game or career night. Thad Young strolled across the paint twice, Thad Young! If Bagley cannot defend the T. Youngs then. . . well, you know. He cannot defend without fouling, he can't maintain position, doesn't block out. He just doesn't work; instead he relies on athleticism. On the offensive end he has an improved 3pt shot but can only make HALF of his free throws. He is a black hole on offense and almost never passes out of the paint; instead he forces too many horrible shots.
We spent a 2nd overall on Bagley and he missed almost a full season with injury. Regardless of his long term future here or elsewhere we absolutely have to play him. If he helps us win, great. If he tanks us to an all star replacement also great. If he shows enough to get trade calls, we'll sell at a loss but it's better than the worst outcome which is riding out the next year and a half with him relegated to the bench and then letting him go blow up elsewhere.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
The Good: Youngsters are Playing
Ty tied career high in points and had a career high in field goals made
Guy had a career high in points and field goals made
DQJ had a career high in points
Woodard and Ramsey are getting burn in G-League. Both have shown some flashes and athleticism. Woodard is contributing in ways that should immediately transfer, such as rebounding.

The Bad: Hield and Bagley are Playing
Chavano is averaging 34% from the field and 29% from downtown in February. In comparison Ty is at 52% and 48%. Hield is a one-man momentum killer. His poor shot selection is almost as bad as his "defense," ok, it's worse. He fouls when the ball is stolen and fouls for and-ones are almost as bad as his careless passing.

Some will argue with Bagley. They will look at his numbers and say he is doing well. He is not. He is athletic as h3ll but can't defend the 4 or the 5. Name a team we played and I will tell you a 4 or 5 that had a monster game or career night. Thad Young strolled across the paint twice, Thad Young! If Bagley cannot defend the T. Youngs then. . . well, you know. He cannot defend without fouling, he can't maintain position, doesn't block out. He just doesn't work; instead he relies on athleticism. On the offensive end he has an improved 3pt shot but can only make HALF of his free throws. He is a black hole on offense and almost never passes out of the paint; instead he forces too many horrible shots.

What the Team Needs
Some form of consistency with the lineups. Not just game to game, but within games.

WTH Walton?
Why play cojo at the 3? Why play Whiteside or Bagley heavy minutes then ice them for 2nd half or 4th Q? Why play DQJ heavy minutes coming off a back injury? Why ignore minutes restrictions? Why DNP-CD players for dozens of games then throw them out there for major roles and minutes?
Yeah, I stopped reading when you gave Your hot take on Bagley.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
I won’t put in the effort of watching live and in full until they put in the effort of trying to win like they did during the 7 of 8 streak. I was watching intently then. Then it took 2-3 games after to recognize that they weren’t worthy of planning my evening around and watching live again.
Pretty much the same. But it also has been schedule for me as well. Just a lot of stuff going on (putting in a pool at home, work stuff, other projects going on, etc.) and if they are down big, I don't even bother. If they win, I've got it on DVR to watch later.
 
Bagley is showing progress on both sides of the ball. Bigs take time to develop. Especially when they play so little College ball.
100% Just think bigs have a hard time defending seasoned vets as is, plus how the game is officiating nowadays. I'm surprised how many people are already giving up on Bagley, whom we spent a 2nd round pick on, whether you like it or not we gotta give him a fair chance to prove himself.
 
Bagley is showing progress on both sides of the ball. Bigs take time to develop. Especially when they play so little College ball.
Besides the obvious about other players left on the board, the concern going in with Bagley was he was the least NBA ready of all the prospects and we didn't have a draft pick the following year. I didn't like the dice roll at the time but we made it so we may as well see it through even with a new GM.

But I agree, he shows progress. After the little blip during the first losing streak, he seems to have his heart in the game. Maybe I'm just not paying attention but his dad has shut up for the time being. Even with the minutes restriction in place.
 
Bagley is showing progress on both sides of the ball. Bigs take time to develop. Especially when they play so little College ball.
True. If a team selects a big with the 2nd pick, that's on the team. That doesn't change the players time line for development. Hard to believe people would watch these 30 games, acknowledge the growth and still think the next step is to get rid of him rather than complete the development.
 
Next to them in pick and roll.
While the obvious caveat "it's the Bulls", his usage in that game was an absolute revelation and incredibly frustrating it hasn't been utilized more. They couldn't stop his roll action at all and there was at least 2-3 plays where he created easy lay-ups because the roll defender stayed home on him rather than rotate over on the driver.
 
While the obvious caveat "it's the Bulls", his usage in that game was an absolute revelation and incredibly frustrating it hasn't been utilized more. They couldn't stop his roll action at all and there was at least 2-3 plays where he created easy lay-ups because the roll defender stayed home on him rather than rotate over on the driver.
I mentioned it in the tank thread but they could potentially get away with the "we are trying to develop other aspects of his game" bs. But yeah, at some point maybe the better option is to maximize what he can do great now and not later? They were either completely oblivious to the fragile nature of both the team and some of the talent the last season or two but if they were, welcome back to the dumpster fire. They keep fighting back here and there which is good but if you send your soldiers out there to die night after night die they will.
 
While the obvious caveat "it's the Bulls", his usage in that game was an absolute revelation and incredibly frustrating it hasn't been utilized more. They couldn't stop his roll action at all and there was at least 2-3 plays where he created easy lay-ups because the roll defender stayed home on him rather than rotate over on the driver.
Agree. Sitting in the corner waiting for an open three isn't where his future lies on offence. Having said that, he is developing steadily and the coaching staff do deserve some credit for that.
 
The issue with the development process for Bagley is that Richaun Holmes plays the pick n roll part and is integrated into the offense. Bagley has been asked to fit in wherever.

I like Holmes and enjoy his game. But in the context of this situation, Holmes didn't break out as a player until his 5th year when he got to Sacramento and there was no other competition for him at the 5. We had another undersized young big in Giles who management wanted to punish and Bagley, who was hurt. Dedmon was a non factor.

It's no surprise Bagley's number went up significantly when Holmes was out, then dropped back down when he came back.

What does McNair do? (I know what Walton would do)
 
Agree. Sitting in the corner waiting for an open three isn't where his future lies on offence. Having said that, he is developing steadily and the coaching staff do deserve some credit for that.
Actually disagree here. Him developing the corner 3 has been one of the biggest leaps he's making impact on offense. Went 17-42 in January for 40%, and is currently 10-23 for 43% in February. A big issue Bagley has had in his first 2 years was the "blackhole" problem where the ball would stop with him and he was extremely inefficient. He's gotten much better at taking what the defense is giving him and not forcing bad offensive possessions.
 
Actually disagree here. Him developing the corner 3 has been one of the biggest leaps he's making impact on offense. Went 17-42 in January for 40%, and is currently 10-23 for 43% in February. A big issue Bagley has had in his first 2 years was the "blackhole" problem where the ball would stop with him and he was extremely inefficient. He's gotten much better at taking what the defense is giving him and not forcing bad offensive possessions.
Yes it has been a good development. But I said simply sitting in the corner is not where his future lies. Nice that Bags has now ticked this box on offence. Now he can take the next steps. Only sitting in the corner on offence is a good way to use a 3&D player who is otherwise limited offensively, say a Bruce Bowen type. Perhaps my expectations/ optimism is a little higher for MBIII?
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I for one am very excited about Bagley. He’s improved in so many areas this year across the board. That is really hard to do. Doesn’t kill the offense, has show some pick and roll ability, knocking down the 3, has improved his defense quite a bit, is slowing the game down, I think his FT shooting is trending up as of late..........I mean if you can add a top draft pick to Bagley, Fox, Halliburton and then DQJ and Woodard become solid role players, this gives me hope.

What will Bagley look like in 2 years? I think someone who will be damn good.
 
Wow this is the biggest of reaches I've seen on here. "twirling his locks" what the heck? "giggles all the time?" "nary a smile?" For a min I thought I was reading little women.

All creditability is lost if a hair cut is part of your argument. BTW Fox was smiling plenty for 7/8 games when they were rolling over teams. While it may seem like a long time ago. Its only been about a week. Have you ever heard of this guy Michael Jordan? Well here's a little story about this Jordan guy. He wasn't smiling that much during his first 7 years while he was getting his head kicked in. I don't think he smiled that much in general btw cause he was always trying to kill people himself. It took Jordan 7 years to win his first title. Side note Fox isn't Jordan. Jordan was also 28 when he won his first title. Fox is 23!!!!!! Also the first time Jordan made the playoffs the teams record was 38-44. The second time was 30-52!!! So keep in mind we play in the West and its a death march right now. Its not as easy a path as it was for Jordan in the beginning.

Theres nothing serious going on with Fox right now. Its a fact that he just sat out a game hurt. I'm pretty confident hes not 100% right now, but.... because WE ALL KNOW and he does too. That if he sits we have no chance. So he's playing anyway. Also if Holmes sits we're pretty screwed also. We don't have the talent to have key players injured or out. We got lucky for most of the year avoiding injuries. It sucks that its basically hitting everyone now at the same time.

This team wasn't a serious playoff team right now in the west.

Things to consider or things that matter are:
#1 Fox takes that next Superstar step. I think he proved that before he hurt himself literally doing everything for 8 games.
#2 Bagley stays alive and also takes that next step. Look if you told me he was gonna stay healthy and shoot 39% from 3 this year I'd consider that a huge victory. We know he can rebound and without question hes improving defensively. What else can you ask for? Hes on the right path.
#3 find more talent. AKA the draft. Tyrese is a stud. Potentially a star himself in a few years (kinda one right now).
#4 this team doesn't have a SF still. THATS A PROBLEM. Barnes truly is best (when healthy) at the 4. This team needs better wings. Maybe Woodard in the future? but right now its a major weakness.

Anyway this all is making Monty's job easier and his direction clear. I'd wait till the trade deadline before I start making judgments about things being all doom and gloom. We have a legit Front office for the first time basically ever. The trade they made that was shot down was encouraging as far as talent for us. It wasn't our fault it failed. Its also not his fault Giles and Bogdan were lost.

Ok so to come full circle. I think Fox's locks or nary a smile aren't the problem. I thinks hes fine. For the first time in forever I have faith that the people in charge are competent. The problem is talent around Fox and its gonna take a min to sort out and fix.
Him turning it over like buddy in iso mode has nothing to do with injuries. His shot is also broke, yet he fires ar will. Every time he pulls a 3 I cringe and it kills momentum. Almost as much as buddy's broke 3.

But I still love him he can still be a allstar but I don't think he is yet and that's OK. But I'm not making excuses for our MAX player