Kings @ Bobcats Game Thread (very early edition)

[D-Mass]

Would anyone else(besides me) trade Peja for Wallace staight up??? Blame the coach for losing him because he wouldn't play him.

I would, but Charlotte wouldn't.

 

[Yoda]

Would anyone else(besides me) trade Peja for Wallace staight up??? Blame the coach for losing him because he wouldn't play him.

Too sinking funny. lol.

 

[VF21]

Yeah...let's get back to that!

I would like to return to the point I was endeavoring to make before I was so rudely interrupted...



I don't know why Peja is passing up open looks but he is. And his after-game interview was mind-boggling. At one point, he was actually smiling. I certainly don't think there was anything to be smiling about...that was a game so well within our grasp that I can't possibly imagine any of the Kings having anything to smile about after it.

(Can you picture Bonzi grinning about a loss like that?)

Wherever Peja's head and heart are, I'm truly afraid they're no longer with the Kings. At this point, if SOMETHING isn't done to shake up the team, it's only going to get worse.

 

[AleksandarN]

It would have been Ok if Peja could have stepped up, but it just hasn't happened. We are stuck with those other 3 contracts now.. Petrie(or the Maloofs) picked the wrong guy.

No Petrie and the Maloofs pick the wrong core. This is team is going no where with the core we have now. One trade is not going to get it done. We need to two if not all three of the core if we are going to go anywhere.

 

[KP]

No Petrie and the Maloofs pick the wrong core. This is team is going no where with the core we have now. One trade is not going to get it done. We need to two if not all three of the core if we are going to go anywhere.

I know.. it's sad but true... I was really wrong about Mike, Peja, and Brad, and their ability to step up and lead this team.

 

[Ryle]

Well, let's see:

            FG%    FT%    OFF REB        AST    TO    STL    BLK    PPG
Kenny Thomas         44.4    76.6    1.1 4.0        1.4    1.0     0.3    0.4    6.1
Corliss Williamson     48.3    66.7    0.5 1.6        0.2    1.1     0.3    0.1    3.5
Brian Skinner         69.2    50.0    0.6 1.9        0.4    0.4    0.4    0.4    2.8
 
Chris Webber         42.3    86.3    2.4 10.1       3.5    2.4    1.2    0.9    19.3

As polarizing a figure as Webber was in a Kings uniform, that trade was equally polarizing. After disregarding the people that wanted Webber gone because they just plain didn't like him, the greater majority of those who endorsed the trade did so because they felt that Webber would never regain anything close to his old form, and would never be able to be a factor on a good team.

Meanwhile, Webber is a very important cog in the Atlantic Division-leading Philadelphia 76ers, and the Kings are in last place in the Pacific. And, oh yeah, Webber's numbers are, across the board, superior to the three guys he was traded for... combined.

So, my offhand guess would be that people are going to continue re-hashing the trade until those numbers are reversed... you might as well grab a Snickers, boss, because this debate ain't going nowhere for a while...

WORD

It also makes it worse because the reason they traded away Webb was to appease Peja and he has really turned out to be the weak tit that most people thought he was. This "core" that we have is flawed and I'm not sure why we decided to build around those three.

 

[KP]

WORD

It also makes it worse because the reason they traded away Webb was to appease Peja and he has really turned out to be the weak tit that most people thought he was.

Word up.

 

[AleksandarN]

Do you have to ask?

Yes he does. Come on GWallace is not the player I would trade for Pedja. If we trade him we must get something better because adding Wallace to the team would not improve us enought to make us contenders. Like I said earlier we need trade the core or atleast two thirds of it if want to play at level we were. Neither one of core are good defensively and neither one can create or rebound so having them on the floor kills us.

 

[AleksandarN]

WORD

It also makes it worse because the reason they traded away Webb was to appease Peja and he has really turned out to be the weak tit that most people thought he was. This "core" that we have is flawed and I'm not sure why we decided to build around those three.

That was not reseason why he was traded. Yes Pedja sucks right now but blaming Pedja for Webber trade is wrong. Blame Pedja for the games like tonight.

 

[Ryle]

That was not reseason why he was traded. Yes Pedja sucks right now but blaming Pedja for Webber trade is wrong. Blame Pedja for the games like tonight.

Um, yes it was......does anyone else now question who Webb was calling out after the '04 playoff loss to Minnesota. The same player who then said he should be traded and continued to pout for a good portion of the season. The same one who decided he would be the last one called out during player introductions(the same spot Webb used to???). The same one was, according to reports, "ecstatic" when the trade went down.

Peja is Petrie's "boy" and their is no getting around that.

 

[D-Mass]

That was not reseason why he was traded. Yes Pedja sucks right now but blaming Pedja for Webber trade is wrong. Blame Pedja for the games like tonight.

Maybe "appease" is the wrong word. But making Peja "the man" was a BIG reason for that trade.

 

[thesanityannex]

Code:
FG% FT% OFF REB AST TO STL BLK PPG
Kenny Thomas 44.4 76.6 1.1 4.0 1.4 1.0 0.3 0.4 6.1
Corliss Williamson 48.3 66.7 0.5 1.6 0.2 1.1 0.3 0.1 3.5
Brian Skinner 69.2 50.0 0.6 1.9 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.4 2.8

Chris Webber 42.3 86.3 2.4 10.1 3.5 2.4 1.2 0.9 19.3

A little misleading. How bout showing numbers with their minutes equaling webber's mins. I'm not saying the trade was good, but the stats aren't accurate.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

A little misleading. How bout showing numbers with their minutes equaling webber's mins. I'm not saying the trade was good, but the stats aren't accurate.

Well, how I wish the trade could be reversed. But that cant happen. Hey, here's a novel idea...instead of throwing Martin, Hart and Garcia in the game as your first 3 options off the bench Rick, why not give CONSISTENT minutes to Corliss, Brian and Kenny....thats the only way for them to be active enough to contribute. These guys arent 'spot' type of players, but if they were our 'bench crew', then they would get 10-20 minutes a game a piece...just my 4 cents.

 

[nbrans]

^and this on the night that SAR scored 32 points. But hey, maybe Webber's coming back...

 

[GoGoGadget]

No Petrie and the Maloofs pick the wrong core. This is team is going no where with the core we have now. One trade is not going to get it done. We need to two if not all three of the core if we are going to go anywhere.

Same difference. Pick the other "guy" and our "core" going into the year is Mike, Webb and Brad.

 

[Ryle]

^and this on the night that SAR scored 32 points. But hey, maybe Webber's coming back...

I don't think that is really the point. When this trade was made it was, as Petrie said, to give more "flexibility" to what the Kings could do. Instead they are stuck with 3 contracts that people don't want and players who the coach refuses to play. The point is why did we trade the heart and soul of this team for nothing if only to appease Peja and his agent???

 

[vj9999]

Same difference. Pick the other "guy" and our "core" going into the year is Mike, Webb and Brad.

And we could still be where we are now.... With our luck, if we kept webber he would have been injured by now and out for at least half a season

 

[GoGoGadget]

A little misleading. How bout showing numbers with their minutes equaling webber's mins. I'm not saying the trade was good, but the stats aren't accurate.

The fact that the combined minutes of all three of the trade pieces don't equal the minutes that would have gone to Webb alone is already a pretty telling stat.

 

[thesanityannex]

I disagree; the stats are quite acurate indeed, in terms of the argument. But, if you think that you can use per-48 or whatever to validate the trade then, by all means, be my guest.

The whole point of the stats were to make the case that we are not, in fact, better off without Webber, and that AFAIC bringing the trade up every time we take a point is legitimate.

I realize we aren't better without Webber. I just don't think its fair to compare their productivity when they (the webber three) are not getting time to play. Compare their combined minutes to his. I'd really like to see these guys get the minutes instead of Hart, Garcia, Martin.

 

[kennadog]

The whole point of the stats were to make the case that we are not, in fact, better off without Webber, and that AFAIC bringing the trade up every time we take a point is legitimate.

And even if it was a really bad trade and anyone who said so then or says so now is 100% correct? So what? The prize is the satisfaction of saying I/you/we were right? Anyone/everyone/someone being right isn't going to help my beloved Kings at all. Its Pyrrhic victory, at best.

 

[thesanityannex]

The fact that the combined minutes of all three of the trade pieces don't equal the minutes that would have gone to Webb alone is already a pretty telling stat.

what does it tell exactly? all that is tells me is that adelman doesn't know how to use them.

 

[love_them_kings]

The fact that the combined minutes of all three of the trade pieces don't equal the minutes that would have gone to Webb alone is already a pretty telling stat.

Exactly! Why argue about the stats when the simple fact that the three of them together aren't worth playing as much as Webb alone basically tells the story! And that's before getting into the fact that this team needs a leader, needs some passion and spirit that seem to have been desperately missing this season. Throw that into the mix, and let's see how we really came out on that trade.... yeah, it pretty much sucks, doesn't it??

 

[Padrino]

^and this on the night that SAR scored 32 points. But hey, maybe Webber's coming back...

and that is the fundamental difference between webber and rahim. rahim can score 32 points and his team can lose rather easily. rahim's numbers are pretty, and i appreciate his effort and efficiency much more than i appreciate peja's penchant for not showing up, but numbers don't tell an entire story. rahim can score 32, but he won't change the momentum of a game while doing it. webber was (key word..."was") the kind of player who would take a team on his shoulders, demand the ball, and rip a team's heart out with intense moves to the basket. rahim's all finesse. he has none of the swagger that webber posseses. that's not necessarily a bad thing, but on a team full of softies, its certainly not a hot commodity.

 

[AleksandarN]

Same difference. Pick the other "guy" and our "core" going into the year is Mike, Webb and Brad.

Yes and still going nowhere.

 

[thesanityannex]

and that is the fundamental difference between webber and rahim. rahim can score 32 points and his team can lose rather easily. rahim's numbers are pretty, and i appreciate his effort and efficiency much more than i appreciate peja's penchant for not showing up, but numbers don't tell an entire story. rahim can score 32, but he won't change the momentum of a game while doing it. webber was (key word..."was") the kind of player who would take a team on his shoulders, demand the ball, and rip a team's heart out with intense moves to the basket. rahim's all finesse. he has none of the swagger that webber posseses. that's not necessarily a bad thing, but on a team full of softies, its certainly not a hot commodity.

bad comparison. bonzi didn't play. thats like webb without his vlade.

 

[love_them_kings]

And even if it was a really bad trade and anyone who said so then or says so now is 100% correct? So what? The prize is the satisfaction of saying I/you/we were right? Anyone/everyone/someone being right isn't going to help my beloved Kings at all. Its Pyrrhic victory, at best.

you're right. I was against the trade and was hoping to be proven wrong. Now, well, I can't get much satisfaction out of being right, and I certainly am not getting much satisfaction out of how we're playing. But, I do at least get some minor amusement by the fans who continue to say that we are better without Webb. Evidently they are enjoying this season more than last season....

 

[Jerryaki]

k, little behind, but what does BP stand for? i know it refers to peja.

 

[VF21]

I've responded to Jerryaki via PM.

 

[AleksandarN]

I know.. it's sad but true... I was really wrong about Mike, Peja, and Brad, and their ability to step up and lead this team.

Hey KP clear your private messages.

 

[GoGoGadget]

what does it tell exactly? all that is tells me is that adelman doesn't know how to use them.

Regardless of whether or not Petrie hasn't been able to trade them, or Adelman doesn't know how to use them, or they're in the doghouse, or they went crosseyed, or they can't make their freethrows, or they snore of the team plane, they aren't being used. They aren't playing.

Therefore, the three of them, collectively, were not a USEFUL addition to the team.

I could trade a $2 bottle of Triple Sec for a case of Dom Perignon, but if I'm trying to make a margarita...