Caution Optimism thread. Kings are a matchup nightmare for most teams.

[Entity]

I was just pondering and looking at Bricks scouting reports http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-Scouting-Reports

With Tyreke, Donte, and Cousins those are almost always going to be matchup problems for apposing teams and if you play the right role players not allowing switchoffs to be a factor then we keep the mismatch the whole game. Lets take San Antonio

Parker can't contain Tyreke. Garcia can d up Manu. Duncan can't guard Cousins and leave their C matched up against either of our quick PF and Jefferson has no advantage over Donte on either end.

Denver has one obvious advantage and our best defender will be guarding him.

I could go on about the starters but here is where it all comes together to me.

We have had discussions on who starts at 4 out of our 5 positions. Thats because we finally have depth that IMHO isn't matched by many teams. Sure some have better stars but have nobody behind them.

We have had our discussions over starters but how many are really going to complain if its

Beno or Garcia
Omri or Donte
Jason or Carl
Samuel or Demarcus

Then you still got Whiteside, Jeter, Wright and a player to be named later lol

We can win with either lineup or variations thereof

Tyreke
Garica
Greene
Thompson
Cousins

Tyreke
Beno
Casspi
Landry
Dalembert

alot of combos either way I am happy with the team on the court

This is going to be a fun ride.

 

[ForlornKing]

im with you.









sorry if my post contains little insight .

 

[Chupacabra]

Always good to have optimism. I could be way off on this so correct me if im wrong, it seems to me that Kings fans overrate Greene and underrate Casspi. There were many times last season that i preferred Casspi to Greene. I love Greenes size and defensive ability, i hate that he disappears and doesnt seem to have any rebounding advantage. I like everything about Casspi other than his shot selection. If Casspi suddenly slowed down and allowed the game to come to him i wouldnt have a problem choosing him over Greene. Just a thought. I love that we have both of them. Our bench is a BEAST. We could end up winning alot of games just because of superior bench play.

 

[bajaden]

It looks good on paper. How it plays out remains to be seen. I'm certainly on board with the optimism. But that can fade quickly after the first 10 or 15 games if things don't go right. But I'm hopeful. It all depends on how quickly it comes together. I think Casspi is going to win the starting job. I just think he's a smarter player overall than Greene right now. But I think Greene has the talent to possibly win the job back down the road. Truth is, it doesn't really matter. Having both is a nice luxury. Which ever one is having a good game that night, thats the one that gets the most minutes. Both Evans and Cousins have superstar potential. Doesn't mean it will happen, but its not often you can say that about one player in your organization much less two. Both Thompson and Landry are solid players, and happily, different players playing the same position.

For the first time in a long time, I can say that the team looks pretty solid overall. Inexperienced, but you can see the potential there. So yep, I'm optimistic..

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Well, I'm all for cautious optimism, but I actually think the Spurs are a bad matchup for us. Less of a problem now as they fade into obsolescence, but Parker is one of the few guards in the league that Reke wasn't able to guard last year, and it isn't as if Reke blew it up the other way.

The matchup that really worries me going forward is the Thunder. Westbrook will be torching Beno for years, and Thabo will be slowing Reke down on the other end. And all that is before you get to their superstar.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Well, I'm all for cautious optimism, but I actually think the Spurs are a bad matchup for us. Less of a problem now as they fade into obsolescence, but Parker is one of the few guards in the league that Reke wasn't able to guard last year, and it isn't as if Reke blew it up the other way.

The matchup that really worries me going forward is the Thunder. Westbrook will be torching Beno for years, and Thabo will be slowing Reke down on the other end. And all that is before you get to their superstar.

We just need Evans to fill out his frame a bit more and then he will be unguardable...like Lebron.

Lebron came in as a big SF, but he is noticeable larger, yet the quickness is still there.
No need for Tyreke to go out of the way to get bigger, I think he is just naturally a big man. He is only 20 years and is still years away from beginning to hit his peak male strength.

I think the same thing is going to happen to Cousins. He is naturally a burly guy with deceptive strength. He too is still a kid and will become one of the strongest guys in the league if he doesn't get lazy.

 

[The Hammer]

Whew. Finally a real thread. I was getting that jittery tdos feeling. But let's go with this. Hopefully some jackass won't try to hijack the little fun we can have in the offseason: getting optimistic about the upcoming year. So in a word. Yes, I agree with the OP. But yes, we are going to have to do something about the Thunder. I can see that being a pretty intense rivalry for years to come. I mean like 8 or 10.

It is interesting to remember our "potential superstar's" ages. And they will do a lot of normal filling out. But we will have to do something about the Thunder. Here's hoping that Donte's defense takes another leap forward. He's the only guy with even a chance of guarding Durant.

 

[ParniValjak]

No doubt we have been able to collect a lot of young talent in relatively quick time but our challenge from now on would be to keep this team together (especially the frontline) and develop them quickly.

The potential is off the charts and if all goes well we will have a big rivalry with Thunder for years to come. One HUGE thing for us here would be if Greene develops into the sort of player we all hope on both ends of the floor. If he can reach that defensive potential, he would be just about the perfect match up for Durant. One massive advantage I see us having is Cousins destroying OKC inside.

Its going to be a really exciting season. On paper we have a team with a lot of potential and size. Hopefully the potential gets fulfilled and we get there quicker than projected. If we can keep this team together and add more pieces along the way, we would be unstoppable in years to come.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Imagine an OKC-SAC playoff series.

By the end of the series, the players will be deaf.

 

[Bricklayer]

Do something about the Thunder?

How about just pounding the hell out a frontline which starts a SF at PF and is depending on Cole Aldrich to anchor it?

 

[kennadog]

I am certainly more optimistic than I have been for a few seasons now. But it is cautiously optimistic. This is a very young team.That's a reason for both my optimism and my caution.
(That's supposed to be a damn wink!)

 

[Telemachus]

Always good to have optimism. I could be way off on this so correct me if im wrong, it seems to me that Kings fans overrate Greene and underrate Casspi. There were many times last season that i preferred Casspi to Greene. I love Greenes size and defensive ability, i hate that he disappears and doesnt seem to have any rebounding advantage. I like everything about Casspi other than his shot selection. If Casspi suddenly slowed down and allowed the game to come to him i wouldnt have a problem choosing him over Greene. Just a thought. I love that we have both of them. Our bench is a BEAST. We could end up winning alot of games just because of superior bench play.

I think it really comes down to matchups when talking about Greene and Casspi. They play so completely different from one another that they each create different matchup problems for the other teams. I don't know how much Westphal will alter the starting lineup with them, but I do think their playing time will differ greatly each game based on who gives the Kings the best advantage at that particular time. Personally, I think it is a nice problem to have.

 

[fnordius]

Other teams will also give us problems, because, unless we're playing Dalembert, Udrih and Garcia at once, they're almost guaranteed to have more experienced players at the majority of positions. But I'm okay with watching some losses due to inexperience. That's a fine place for us to be right now.

Oh, and did I say that I like our bench? Having good depth at 4 positions is a pleasant change from the all-6'7" thing we were doing for a while.

 

[Gliesian]

lets start the playoffs thread early!!

 

[mac]

I think it really comes down to matchups when talking about Greene and Casspi. They play so completely different from one another that they each create different matchup problems for the other teams. I don't know how much Westphal will alter the starting lineup with them, but I do think their playing time will differ greatly each game based on who gives the Kings the best advantage at that particular time. Personally, I think it is a nice problem to have.

I'm totally fine with either starting or getting more minutes, as long as they play unselfishly. Both are talented, both have lots to learn, but ultimately playing unselfish team ball will bring the best out of both of them.

 

[Rookie]

If our young players can achieve their potential then this optimism can be a reality.

 

[Aenadin]

Just dropping by to see whats up

can't wait for the coming season

indeed the kings have good mismatch opportunity, on paper we look good and physically imposing, if this young core continues to grow together we will be a great team for years to come

this will be a really really interesting season and I hope I get to have the chance to watch a kings game

 

[bajaden]

I'm not going to get into a player by player breakdown with the Kings vrs Thunder. But I think we match up very well with them. They have some obvious advantages at certain positions, but so do we. We certainly have the overall size advantage. The biggest advantage they have is experience. They're a couple of years ahead of us. But talent wise, I think we may have the overall edge down the road. I know its too early to make this call, but who would you rather have, Krstic or Cousins. I know I'm not trembling in fear at the idea facing Sefolosha.

I'm by no means trying to denigrate the Thunder. I think they have a good young team thats going to get better with age. My point is that I think the Kings have taken a giant step forward in talent this offseason. That doesn't always equate to wins. But my gut tells me that this group is going to be darn good down the road.

 

[Kingster]

Assist/Turnover

The biggest weakness of this team still appears to be assist/turnovers. Tyreke should continue to improve in that area. He now has some low post guys that can (at least eventually) convert. And, he'll have another year under his belt. Still, when you have guys like Garcia and Beno, who aren't the quickest players in the NBA, there will probably be some major issues with the ballhandling. And the overall team is still very young, so that doesn't help. We either need new guys who can pass on the move, or we need to develop existing guys (Casspi and Greene possibly) to pass on the move. And it wouldn't hurt to have more movement without the ball to make it easier on the passer. There is much potential in other areas on this team. Rebounding, for example, could be extremely good, especially if Greene and Casspi step it up. But until they get the assist/turnover thing under control, they'll continue to be a below .500 team.

 

[Kingstime]

Id like to add the Blazers into that list of teams we will most likely have to match up with down the road. They are a young team who still hasn't gotten it together like they'd hope, but with the right signing here or there and some lucky ness in the health department they should be in the top half of the West while we are rising.

 

[Heuge]

Id like to add the Blazers into that list of teams we will most likely have to match up with down the road. They are a young team who still hasn't gotten it together like they'd hope, but with the right signing here or there and some lucky ness in the health department they should be in the top half of the West while we are rising.

I'm much less concerned about the Blazers since they got rid of Prichard. 1st post Pritchard move, Wes Matthews to a front loaded middle exception.

 

[bajaden]

The biggest weakness of this team still appears to be assist/turnovers. Tyreke should continue to improve in that area. He now has some low post guys that can (at least eventually) convert. And, he'll have another year under his belt. Still, when you have guys like Garcia and Beno, who aren't the quickest players in the NBA, there will probably be some major issues with the ballhandling. And the overall team is still very young, so that doesn't help. We either need new guys who can pass on the move, or we need to develop existing guys (Casspi and Greene possibly) to pass on the move. And it wouldn't hurt to have more movement without the ball to make it easier on the passer. There is much potential in other areas on this team. Rebounding, for example, could be extremely good, especially if Greene and Casspi step it up. But until they get the assist/turnover thing under control, they'll continue to be a below .500 team.

I also think that once Cousins gets up to speed, he'll help the assist to turnover ratio. He's not only a good passer, but he's a willing passer.

 

[Kingster]

I also think that once Cousins gets up to speed, he'll help the assist to turnover ratio. He's not only a good passer, but he's a willing passer.

I considered Cousins, but at this point I'm assuming Cousins is as good of a passer as Hawes (which is a complement to Cousins). So maybe that's a wash. Eventually, it could be better than a wash if Cousins plays more minutes than Hawes was playing at the end of last season because then his passing will be on the floor more. Still, Cousins is part of the young guns and it's going to take him a while to see the floor in NBA games.

Now if Cousins pulls a "Tyeke" and actually is a very good low post scorer in his rookie season, then I could see real improvement in assist to turnovers because then you just have to make the (hopefully) simple pass to the big guy for an assist under the basket. That, to me, is a longshot. Tyreke was the aberration. I expect Cousins to be more of the norm for rookies.

The more I think about the assist/turnover angle, the more I think Beno will continue to be on the floor for more time than Garcia. They are really going to need his ball handling at the expense of Garcia's defense and rebounding.

 

[Bricklayer]

If Cousins is out there, its not a huge concern. But passing is one argument against a Landry/Dalembert pairing, as they are both complete black holes and it would put a lot of pressure on the other guys. This team is never going to be remotely like the pass happy crew of a decade ago, and that's fine -- many elite teams are nto tremendous passing crews. But a Reke/Cisco/Omri/Landry/Dalembert crew for instance mihgt only rack up a dozen assists between them, which is obviously disastrously low.

 

[Chupacabra]

From what ive seen, as good of a passer as Hawes is, Cousins is noticeably better. Cousins really is an awesome passer. The other HUGE advantage that Cousins gives us over Hawes is that Cousins draws double teams. That means that theres usually someone WIDE OPEN when Cousins gets the ball. With his court vision and passing ability hes able to get the open player the ball. The same cant be said for Hawes. Lets not be silly and act like losing Hawes makes adding Cousins a wash. Youre really kidding yourself if you dont think Cousins will see a significant amount of time on the floor during the regular season.

 

[fnordius]

If Cousins is out there, its not a huge concern. But passing is one argument against a Landry/Dalembert pairing, as they are both complete black holes and it would put a lot of pressure on the other guys. This team is never going to be remotely like the pass happy crew of a decade ago, and that's fine -- many elite teams are nto tremendous passing crews. But a Reke/Cisco/Omri/Landry/Dalembert crew for instance mihgt only rack up a dozen assists between them, which is obviously disastrously low.

This was my concern last summer, but Westphal got around it last year with Beno as half of a dual-guard combo. Our A/TO ratio seems to have bottomed out during the RonRon-Theus period, and I'm hoping that the recovery continues.

05-06: 22.3/14.0 = 1.59
06-07: 20.3/14.1 = 1.44
07-08: 19.1/15.3 = 1.25
08-09: 19.7/14.8 = 1.33
09-10: 20.5/14.2 = 1.44

 

[ParniValjak]

Do something about the Thunder?

How about just pounding the hell out a frontline which starts a SF at PF and is depending on Cole Aldrich to anchor it?

There is no one on the Thunder's frontline that can keep up with Cousins and Landry. Cousins would absolutely destroy them inside. Reke would have his hands full with Sefolosha who is a very good defender and Westbrook would run rings around Beno.

But Cousins would smash them inside and if Greene can be as good defensively against Durant as he has shown against Melo, then we are going to cause them some MAJOR headaches down the road.

 

[Chupacabra]

Im not worried about any team really. If this team can live up to its defensive potential then we should be able to beat everybody. The Kings already look to be an awesome rebounding team. If you control the boards and play tough defense you almost always win.

 

[Kingster]

If Cousins is out there, its not a huge concern. But passing is one argument against a Landry/Dalembert pairing, as they are both complete black holes and it would put a lot of pressure on the other guys. This team is never going to be remotely like the pass happy crew of a decade ago, and that's fine -- many elite teams are nto tremendous passing crews. But a Reke/Cisco/Omri/Landry/Dalembert crew for instance mihgt only rack up a dozen assists between them, which is obviously disastrously low.

If you mean it's not a concern for the longer term, like two to three years from now, then yes, I agree. If you mean it's not a concern for next year, I really don't. I think next year is still turnover city, regardless of the distribution of minutes between Cousins and Dalembert. Of course, it would nice to be wrong and Cousins can pull a Magic Johnson act in his rookie year. I just doubt it.

 

[Kingster]

From what ive seen, as good of a passer as Hawes is, Cousins is noticeably better. Cousins really is an awesome passer. The other HUGE advantage that Cousins gives us over Hawes is that Cousins draws double teams. That means that theres usually someone WIDE OPEN when Cousins gets the ball. With his court vision and passing ability hes able to get the open player the ball. The same cant be said for Hawes. Lets not be silly and act like losing Hawes makes adding Cousins a wash. Youre really kidding yourself if you dont think Cousins will see a significant amount of time on the floor during the regular season.

I don't think you're reading very carefully. I think the assist aspect is a wash, especially when you consider that we are losing a three year guy in Hawes and you're substituting a rookie in Cousins. Good point about the double team though. I agree to a certain extent, but still I'm not expecting Cousins to play like a three year guy when in fact he's a rookie.