Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...

Payton is a small conference guy, so that's why he's less known. I checked out his DX Express scouting report and some Youtubes earlier this year. He interested me, but he looked real young and had some flaws. He's the right type for the team though. He's an unselfish, athletic PG who plays defense with pride. Watching his workout vids, I've been impressed with how much better his jumpshot looks right now than it did in those scouting reports. If he is able to improve his outside shot over the summer then he'd be a real good fit.

He would still need to work on his overall strength and finishing inside against NBA size, and cutting down on turnovers. He's had a late growth spurt and drew attention later on his basketball playing, so he looks/feels like he's still growing into it all.
 
Who the hell is Elfrid Payton? That post from Mike is seriously the first time i have ever seen or heard his name. Overseas guy?

One of the highest boom/bust picks in this draft. He's 6'3 PG with a 6'8 wingspan, a great athlete, and I believe won defensive player of the year for all of college basketball. He and Aaron Gordon will be the two best defensive players in this class in their rookie years.

The big concern is he's a mid-conference guy who didn't play against elite competition, and he doesn't have a shot. He's drawn some comparisons to Rondo with his style of play, but Rondo also played at Kentucky and still went in the 20s. And while the 50% FG is nice, he's not going to have the same ability to get in the paint against NBA defenses like he was against most of his competition last season.

Honestly, I don't see enough of a difference in him and Ray McCallum to justify trading down with grabbing him in mind or taking him at 8 . Payton has the higher upside and because of his size/athleticism, and is a better defender, but he and Ray basically produced identical Junior seasons before declaring. I'd rather spend the time on the guy we've used a year developing than start over with a similar player in Payton.
 

I'm really growing on grabbing Stauskas. He'd probably be my pick if I had to draft tomorrow. That gives us 2 young options at SG to develop and I think he would really push Ben to improve his game and get him to step up. If drafting a guy at the same position one year later doesn't get your butt in gear to improve, then nothing will.

What I like about him is he's a creative scorer, and not just a shooter. He's got great ball handling/playmaking for the SG position and can create off his own bounce for himself and others, which is very important in today's NBA. Only having 1 ball-handler last year on the floor really hurt us a lot of the time. It's why we often got a lot better when we ran IT and Ray together.

He's also got a great feel for the game and knows how to make the right play. In contrast to Ben last season, I think Stuaskas would come right out of the gate and fit right in to what we need him to be. I don't see any issues with him adjusting from being a #1 in college to a role player with us, because he's such an outstanding catch and shoot guard and knows how to work off ball. I could also see lineups where we run him and Ben together during different times throughout the game.

He's got the size at 6'6, excellent offensive skill in all facets, great basketball IQ and feel for the game, unselfish, and good enough athleticism to be a solid defender at the next level. I also like how he showed he's dedicated to getting better as he became a drastically improved player from his Freshman to Sophomore season. That shouldn't be overlooked.
 
Who the hell is Elfrid Payton? That post from Mike is seriously the first time i have ever seen or heard his name. Overseas guy?

He's an under the radar guy, played PG for a small school and didn't get a lot of national attention before this season, but we've been talking a lot about him in the prospects forum here. He was the starting PG on USA basketball's under-19 team last summer so it's not like he came out of nowhere. To briefly summarize, he's a junior but young for his class (20 -- same age as McLemore when we drafted him last year) and he plays like a mix of Brandon Jennings (quick with the ball, good in pick and roll situations, streaky 3pt shot, can get turnover-itis) and Rajon Rondo (excellent rebounder for a guard, poor FT shooter, fearless defender -- he won DPOY for college basketball this season). He also measured 6'4" in shoes and he's a good athlete so he's been slowly working his way up draft boards this month. There are a lot of different opinions about Marcus Smart's viability as a full-time PG and Payton is seen by some people (I include myself in this group) as a safer pick who's got similar defensive upside but a better track record with running an offense.
 
I'm really growing on grabbing Stauskas. He'd probably be my pick if I had to draft tomorrow. That gives us 2 young options at SG to develop and I think he would really push Ben to improve his game and get him to step up. If drafting a guy at the same position one year later doesn't get your butt in gear to improve, then nothing will.

What I like about him is he's a creative scorer, and not just a shooter. He's got great ball handling/playmaking for the SG position and can create off his own bounce for himself and others, which is very important in today's NBA. Only having 1 ball-handler last year on the floor really hurt us a lot of the time. It's why we often got a lot better when we ran IT and Ray together.

He's also got a great feel for the game and knows how to make the right play. In contrast to Ben last season, I think Stuaskas would come right out of the gate and fit right in to what we need him to be. I don't see any issues with him adjusting from being a #1 in college to a role player with us, because he's such an outstanding catch and shoot guard and knows how to work off ball. I could also see lineups where we run him and Ben together during different times throughout the game.

He's got the size at 6'6, excellent offensive skill in all facets, great basketball IQ and feel for the game, unselfish, and good enough athleticism to be a solid defender at the next level. I also like how he showed he's dedicated to getting better as he became a drastically improved player from his Freshman to Sophomore season. That shouldn't be overlooked.
My sentiments exactly. I've come around to Stauskas... he's probably my favorite pick of the guys that are SURE to be there at #8. Probably never gonna be as good as Klay Thompson as he lacks the potential on the defensive end but offensively he could be that guy. Great three point shooter with solid handles that can initiate the offense as well. I'm sold, hope we get him!
 
Maybe they could groom Stuaskas as a PG, having him and ben in the backcourt could have some similarities to the Curry/Klay dynamic.

Wouldn't help you "win now" though as they supposedly want.
 
I'm kinda enamored with talk online about Hawks discussing Kings 8th pick. Would make sense for Horford and Hawks #15 ! Still some good picks for Kings down at 15.
 
I'm kinda enamored with talk online about Hawks discussing Kings 8th pick. Would make sense for Horford and Hawks #15 ! Still some good picks for Kings down at 15.
If we could get Horford and 15 for the pick at 8 and JT and J Terry.....would be all over that
 
I would be fine with Stauskas if Ben wasn't here, but he is.

If both players reach their potential, if they become the guys we need them to be, then they are the same player.

This will HOPEFULLY be the last season we have the opportunity to draft a player this high. If we keep the pick, I want that guy to a player who has a position to play next season, and one that increases the ceiling of this team. We already made our bed with McLemore, and now we have to lie in it. If he works out he works out, if he doesn't then we need to fix it in free agency down the road. Drafting Stauskas creates drama we don't need, and I don't think he'll be the best player available anyway. He's one of the few players, along with McDermott, that I would be upset with. Most of the other guys in our range I can talk myself into. Drafting Stauskas also locks up our SG position for next season, and if both guys struggle we could be toast. I'd rather sign a veteran backup 2, or go all out and target Bradley, than roll with a rookie and a young second year guy.

I can talk myself into Gordon, Randle, Smart, or Payton ... even Saric wouldn't be a big problem for me.
 
I know that I may be a little biased as I'm a huge Michigan fan and have seen most of Stauskas' games over the past two years, but I think he would be a great addition to this team.

You have to really respect the growth in his game from two years ago to this last season. Remember that two years ago he was in a lineup with Burke, Hardaway Jr., Robinson III, and McGary. He was really only the fourth of fifth option on that team and his game mostly consisted of hitting 3-pointers from the corner. He was clutch which was nice, but that was mostly it.

Last year when Burke and Hardaway Jr. went to the NBA the team was left to Robinson III to lead and he took a major step back. McGary then got an injury that ended his season. So Stauskas stepped up and made it his team. He led them to a great record and to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament while becoming Big 10 Player of the Year. His game grew dramatically. He went from a corner 3-point shooter to a player that could hit it from anywhere, he continued to be a great catch and shoot guy while also got very good at shooting off the dribble. His driving skills allowed him to score more inside as well as create for others and his athleticism is underrated, he finishes strong at the basket. His defense is also underrated, it is definitely not poor and I think could become good, not great as his lateral quickness is sometimes an issue. Perhaps the best thing about him is that he is confident and tough, he steps up. The Kings need players like that.
 
I'm kinda enamored with talk online about Hawks discussing Kings 8th pick. Would make sense for Horford and Hawks #15 ! Still some good picks for Kings down at 15.

Seems like too much of a steal for us. I really doubt that Atlanta would send the #15 back in that deal, and maybe the #8 is not even enough.
 
It does seem like a steal, kind of makes you wonder about Horford's long-term health, maybe they know something we don't.

My reading of the original post is that Hawks fans were interested in trading for 8, but it was CruzDude that suggested the Horford deal, not anything coming from the Hawks. I imagine the Hawks fans are thinking its Schroeder, not Horford!
 
I wouldn't be unhappy with Stauskas, Saric or McDermitt. The Kings need more playmakers and Stauskas can do that. Reportedly, Saric and McDermitt can also make plays (I haven't seen either one in a full game). Saric is intriguing because you don't see many 6'10" guys with his kind of passing or ballhandling skills. The Spurs should show everybody how effective it can be to have multiple playmakers on your team, not just one point guard who can make plays.
 
I would be fine with Stauskas if Ben wasn't here, but he is.

If both players reach their potential, if they become the guys we need them to be, then they are the same player.

This will HOPEFULLY be the last season we have the opportunity to draft a player this high. If we keep the pick, I want that guy to a player who has a position to play next season, and one that increases the ceiling of this team. We already made our bed with McLemore, and now we have to lie in it. If he works out he works out, if he doesn't then we need to fix it in free agency down the road. Drafting Stauskas creates drama we don't need, and I don't think he'll be the best player available anyway. He's one of the few players, along with McDermott, that I would be upset with. Most of the other guys in our range I can talk myself into. Drafting Stauskas also locks up our SG position for next season, and if both guys struggle we could be toast. I'd rather sign a veteran backup 2, or go all out and target Bradley, than roll with a rookie and a young second year guy.

I can talk myself into Gordon, Randle, Smart, or Payton ... even Saric wouldn't be a big problem for me.
That's the same thinking that led us to pass on Lilard... because we had drafted Jimmer the year before. Ben was a lottery pick in an epicly bad draft... and we was absolutely awful in his rookie season. We also are in "win-now" mode... can't win now with Ben at sg in all likelihood. Whether thru fa or the draft we're bringing in someone else to start at that position next year... Staukas looks like the best candidate for the job to me.
 
I wouldn't be unhappy with Stauskas, Saric or McDermitt. The Kings need more playmakers and Stauskas can do that. Reportedly, Saric and McDermitt can also make plays (I haven't seen either one in a full game). Saric is intriguing because you don't see many 6'10" guys with his kind of passing or ballhandling skills. The Spurs should show everybody how effective it can be to have multiple playmakers on your team, not just one point guard who can make plays.
I really like Saric but am concerned about whether or not he's coming to the nba next year or not. McDermitt scares me as he doesn't really have a position defensively. Stauskas will probably struggle on d too but at least he can guard sg's in theory.
 
I would be fine with Stauskas if Ben wasn't here, but he is.

If both players reach their potential, if they become the guys we need them to be, then they are the same player.

This will HOPEFULLY be the last season we have the opportunity to draft a player this high. If we keep the pick, I want that guy to a player who has a position to play next season, and one that increases the ceiling of this team. We already made our bed with McLemore, and now we have to lie in it. If he works out he works out, if he doesn't then we need to fix it in free agency down the road. Drafting Stauskas creates drama we don't need, and I don't think he'll be the best player available anyway. He's one of the few players, along with McDermott, that I would be upset with. Most of the other guys in our range I can talk myself into. Drafting Stauskas also locks up our SG position for next season, and if both guys struggle we could be toast. I'd rather sign a veteran backup 2, or go all out and target Bradley, than roll with a rookie and a young second year guy.

I can talk myself into Gordon, Randle, Smart, or Payton ... even Saric wouldn't be a big problem for me.

I don't buy that line of reasoning. They aren't the same player and they both have different strengths. The only similarity is the shooting (even that yet to be seen with Ben). Stauskas is also one of the best possible fits in this entire class with Gay+Cuz as your two main pieces. Especially so if you resign IT as well.

Where Stauskas differs is he's a complete offensive player. His ball-handling/passing and playmaking are outstanding for a SG. He has outstanding size for a SG at 6'6. He's a solid athlete. He's an outstanding catch and shoot player and knows how to work off-ball (which is exactly what we want). I also see Stauskas being able to run a bit of PG at the next level, ala poor man's Manu Ginobli. If both pan out, then we have an excellent problem to have. And you can still find minutes for Stauskas as his ball-handling would allow him to play some PG and his size would allow him to play some SF in certain match-ups.


With Ben, we're banking on the athleticism and potential to come to fruition. He's got all the potential and physical tools to be an excellent 2-way player, but it's just that right now; potential. While Bradley is a nice pipe-dream, a competent FA is not going to happen at the SG slot. We just don't have the money.

What drafting Stauskas also does is give real competition to Ben to get his crap together. After his season last year, in no way shape or form should he be gifted the starting slot. Stauskas creates competition, which will let us know if he can rise to the occasion or not.
 
Given that Iguodala's hesitation to sign with Sacramento was allegedly the reason they pulled his contract offer, I doubt they draft Saric if he's only willing to come over this season for Boston or Los Angeles, as has been reported.
 
Who the hell is Elfrid Payton? That post from Mike is seriously the first time i have ever seen or heard his name. Overseas guy?

I am not sold on him either. I have not heard much about this guy either. He wasn't a player I watched (even if I did I doubt I would have even been able to watch more than a game or two, even with Full Court and all the regional sports channels). At least with a guy like Lillard you had some kind of hype and there was a lot of tape out on him. This guy is a total mystery, and not worth even a consideration at this point.

The way we need to go is this...

#1 Smart - probably be gone
#2 Randle - might be gone
#3 Stauskas - will most likely be available
 
I think the last thing Sac should do is draft another SG....rookies tend to struggle with outside shooting in the NBA. I'd rather them sign a productive vet to fill that SG position....someone proven. Thinking Stauskus is going to come in and be productive right away, I think it's a stretch. From the supposed big 8 at the top, I'd take who is left after the first 7 picks or go after Payton who can contribute right away with his defense. This team needs to be able to stop opposing guards at some point. At some point we need to add some players who are capable of shutting down the opposing team, we need shooters and a shot blocker. There are no sure things in draft but defense tends to transfer to the NBA and I'd love to get Smart first or Payton or Gordon after that.
 
I am not sold on him either. I have not heard much about this guy either. He wasn't a player I watched (even if I did I doubt I would have even been able to watch more than a game or two, even with Full Court and all the regional sports channels). At least with a guy like Lillard you had some kind of hype and there was a lot of tape out on him. This guy is a total mystery, and not worth even a consideration at this point.

The way we need to go is this...

#1 Smart - probably be gone
#2 Randle - might be gone
#3 Stauskas - will most likely be available

If Payton played for a major college, he would be a household name....I believe he was part of USA 19u team, he's not a mystery.
 
I don't buy that line of reasoning. They aren't the same player and they both have different strengths. The only similarity is the shooting (even that yet to be seen with Ben). Stauskas is also one of the best possible fits in this entire class with Gay+Cuz as your two main pieces. Especially so if you resign IT as well.

Where Stauskas differs is he's a complete offensive player. His ball-handling/passing and playmaking are outstanding for a SG. He has outstanding size for a SG at 6'6. He's a solid athlete. He's an outstanding catch and shoot player and knows how to work off-ball (which is exactly what we want). I also see Stauskas being able to run a bit of PG at the next level, ala poor man's Manu Ginobli. If both pan out, then we have an excellent problem to have. And you can still find minutes for Stauskas as his ball-handling would allow him to play some PG and his size would allow him to play some SF in certain match-ups.


With Ben, we're banking on the athleticism and potential to come to fruition. He's got all the potential and physical tools to be an excellent 2-way player, but it's just that right now; potential. While Bradley is a nice pipe-dream, a competent FA is not going to happen at the SG slot. We just don't have the money.

What drafting Stauskas also does is give real competition to Ben to get his poopoo together. After his season last year, in no way shape or form should he be gifted the starting slot. Stauskas creates competition, which will let us know if he can rise to the occasion or not.

I think Stauskas is better than Ben, right now, before he plays a minute of NBA basketball, but I can't personally justify drafting another SG when we have others holes to fill.

Stauskas would be drafted (on this team, with Gay and Cousins) as a role player. Someone who can space the floor with his shooting and play solid defense. His playmaking is nice, but if he's getting the ball as much as Ben got it last season, he's not even going to get an opportunity to display that. All I'm saying is that those two players will get asked to play the similar, if not the same exact role. And Ben, who is the better athlete, might get the slight edge is terms of fit for a player who is hardly getting any touches. Again, I think Stauskas is a better overall player, though.

But my reasoning isn't as important as the fact that I just wouldn't draft him. Not at 8. I'd take any of the guys who fall out of that top 8 over him (It will likely be Randle, Smart, or Gordon) and I'd take Payton over him, too.

Someone mentioned in a different thread about drafting Stauskas after Ben is traded, which I can get behind to a certain extent, but Stauskas is the sort of player we need to step away from. Everyone can try and praise his 'solidness' defensively, but we need better than solid because the rest of the roster is so terrible on that end. I'd take the three high level defenders I mentioned (Smart, Payton, or Gordon) over the offensive guy. We need to fix that side of the ball.

Drafting Smart or Payton would offer an immediate upgrade defensively (and I actually like Thomas more than most here, but I believe this to be true) and Gordon, who I really want, will give us another extremely versatile defender. And it's not like those guys are slouches on offense, but they can create problems on the other end, too. The Kings need impact defenders more than anything else.

I think this is different than Jimmer vs. Lillard for a few reasons, but the major one being that Jimmer was and is a gimmick player. I never wanted the Kings to draft him in the first place. He lacked the raw tools most players need to play point guard in the NBA. Ben, who I have serious doubts about overall, at least has the tools. He's very fluid. He moves extremely well. He's quick. He's a great athlete. I can see the potential, and he has the foundation. Jimmer never had the foundation. He could shoot, that's it. Lillard was a much more complete offensive player, who isn't a great athlete but he's 10x the athlete Jimmer was.

Drafting Stauskas would leave me very unsatisfied. Like we're just spinning our wheels.
 
That's the same thinking that led us to pass on Lilard... because we had drafted Jimmer the year before.

By all reports, the thinking that led us to pass on Lillard was that Petrie was worried that the Maloofs wouldn't give him enough money to re-sign Jason Thompson over the summer and he wanted to make sure we had a league-ready power forward to step in in the event that we lost JT. Things didn't quite work out, but I've never ever heard any suggestion that we passed on Lillard, who Petrie apparently liked very much, because of Jimmer.
 
I really like Saric but am concerned about whether or not he's coming to the nba next year or not. McDermitt scares me as he doesn't really have a position defensively. Stauskas will probably struggle on d too but at least he can guard sg's in theory.

If Kings management thinks Saric is a step up from the guys like Stauskas or McDermitt, they should pull the trigger. Remember when Petrie passed on Nowitsky because of similar concerns? Enough with the self-esteem problem or even the timing problem. Go after the best player, period. I don't like making decisions borne of desperation - they rarely turn out well. By the way, I just heard a draft service guy on 1140 who is very high on Saric.
 
I think the last thing Sac should do is draft another SG....rookies tend to struggle with outside shooting in the NBA. I'd rather them sign a productive vet to fill that SG position....someone proven. Thinking Stauskus is going to come in and be productive right away, I think it's a stretch. From the supposed big 8 at the top, I'd take who is left after the first 7 picks or go after Payton who can contribute right away with his defense. This team needs to be able to stop opposing guards at some point. At some point we need to add some players who are capable of shutting down the opposing team, we need shooters and a shot blocker. There are no sure things in draft but defense tends to transfer to the NBA and I'd love to get Smart first or Payton or Gordon after that.

Disagree. The last thing the Kings need to do is pick the player at 8 that drops to us or who is left after the first seven pick. We did that the last two times and in my mind it clearly didn't work. And wouldn't go for this guy or that guy because they are good defenders and we need that. Our first priority should be to decide from among those left which ones are presently very good basketball players (I hope I don't have to explain that to you - we all can tell who they are by watching them play whether it be sandlot, HS, college or pros) and from them pick either the best player or best fit. In other words what we need are players at all positions that are good basic basketball players, that is, players with experience at any level, with a decent share of "BBIQ", can pas, can dribble, can catch and handle, they show they can play effectively in team setting at both ends. After you pick who are best against those criteria then look at their specialties, their strong points and their fit at both ends. Who fits this criteria? I don't know the players that well but I could surely ID some that do and some that don't. Many on here that inform themselves thoroughly on the players and their capabilities and have watched them play can do a good job of sorting them out. What we don't want are players who are just outstanding "athletes", "shooters", "defenders", "shot blockers"', etc. a basketball player first. It makes it tougher to do when most are just freshmen in college. Our first round picks of last year and the year before would not have met this criteria, and our team needs this basic talent at every position.
 
For anyone who wants to take the time, you can watch the championship game of last summer's U19 tournament on Youtube:


This game features 2014 draft prospects Elfrid Payton (#4), Marcus Smart (#7), Aaron Gordon (#11), and Jarnell Stokes (#14) as well as projected 2015 draft prospects Jahlil Okafor (#15) and Montrezl Harrell (#12) on Team USA and 2014 draft prospect Vasilje Micic (#9) on Serbia.

Skip to 1:33:45 for a nice Payton to Gordon alley-oop.
Skip to 1:37:30 for a Payton and Smart fast break.
Skip to 1:51:40 for a nice finish by Harrell to close out the win.

Also found the Semifinal game: USA vs. Lithuania
 
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I don't buy that line of reasoning. They aren't the same player and they both have different strengths. The only similarity is the shooting (even that yet to be seen with Ben). Stauskas is also one of the best possible fits in this entire class with Gay+Cuz as your two main pieces. Especially so if you resign IT as well.

Where Stauskas differs is he's a complete offensive player. His ball-handling/passing and playmaking are outstanding for a SG. He has outstanding size for a SG at 6'6. He's a solid athlete. He's an outstanding catch and shoot player and knows how to work off-ball (which is exactly what we want). I also see Stauskas being able to run a bit of PG at the next level, ala poor man's Manu Ginobli. If both pan out, then we have an excellent problem to have. And you can still find minutes for Stauskas as his ball-handling would allow him to play some PG and his size would allow him to play some SF in certain match-ups.


With Ben, we're banking on the athleticism and potential to come to fruition. He's got all the potential and physical tools to be an excellent 2-way player, but it's just that right now; potential. While Bradley is a nice pipe-dream, a competent FA is not going to happen at the SG slot. We just don't have the money.

What drafting Stauskas also does is give real competition to Ben to get his poopoo together. After his season last year, in no way shape or form should he be gifted the starting slot. Stauskas creates competition, which will let us know if he can rise to the occasion or not.

portland supposedly passed on michael jordan bc they had clyde drexler already in the fold. you can't pass up on talent bc you drafted that position the year before. gotta take em if they are the best player available.

stauskas has some of the skillsets that ginobili and belinelli have. i'm afraid of saric bc i don't think malone can utilize his skill sets properly. i was reading an article about diaw early in his career and mike woodson was his coach. woodson wanted him to become a scorer and it didn't work with diaw. now you put diaw on the spurs and its a perfect fit. i think it could be the same situation here.
 
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