Alright, we got the 8th pick, options...
- Thread starter miltonap
- Start date
No sense in comparing two completely different players.
Gordon and Williams are on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. Williams hasn't translated to the NBA because he hasn't figured out how to contribute when he's not getting 12+ shots a game. Doesn't board consistently, doesn't play D consistently. Questionable motor and energy levels when he's not getting shots offensively.
Gordon is on the other end. Dude is an excellent defender in the post and perimeter and he's got a great team defensive mentality. He's the kind of guy who's going to outwork you to make up for any limitations in his game
K
KingMilz
Guest
The only one outside the top 3 guns I would be willing to roll the dice on is Exum
Mass
Starter
I understand that people are mad right now, and it looks like the sky is falling. But we were projected to have the 7th pick, not the 1st. Getting into the top 3 was just a dream. The thing that really bothers me is that Cleveland gets the 1st pick again. I wouldn't have a problem otherwise.
Anyways, 7th or 8th doesn't really change much right now. As always, on Draft night there will be surprises. Someone will move up, and someone will move down. I Believe Gordon is a guy who could move up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 5 or 6. We could still have a shot at Smart and Vonleh I believe.
I'm also absolutely on the trade the pick bandwagon. If the right deal comes up, we should take it. The first guy who comes to my mind is Rondo. Maybe the Celtics want to start the rebuilding, having 2 pick in the top 8 in this draft is not that bad. If the 6th pick last year landed Holiday, this year in a much deeper draft the 8th pick could land Rondo.
Anyways, 7th or 8th doesn't really change much right now. As always, on Draft night there will be surprises. Someone will move up, and someone will move down. I Believe Gordon is a guy who could move up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 5 or 6. We could still have a shot at Smart and Vonleh I believe.
I'm also absolutely on the trade the pick bandwagon. If the right deal comes up, we should take it. The first guy who comes to my mind is Rondo. Maybe the Celtics want to start the rebuilding, having 2 pick in the top 8 in this draft is not that bad. If the 6th pick last year landed Holiday, this year in a much deeper draft the 8th pick could land Rondo.
Fear the Putin
Starter
So, now we decide to trade the pick? Even at 8 we can get an extremely good player. But, at the same time I see the reasoning behind trying to trade it. We can't be heading into the lottery year in and year out. So, yes...if a great deal comes along that will propel us into playoff contention, then by all means take it. But if not, I don't think we should force this.
DMC916
G-League
History of the #8 pick
Terrence Ross
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
T.J. Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagana Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
Brian Grant
Vin Baker
Todd Day
Mark Macon
Bo Kimble
Sorry got lazy stopped at 1990
Terrence Ross
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
T.J. Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagana Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
Brian Grant
Vin Baker
Todd Day
Mark Macon
Bo Kimble
Sorry got lazy stopped at 1990
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
A good sign that list is not.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
yeah, at that rate we already have the greatest #8 pick of the past 20 years on the roster.
That's of course slightly deceptive in that I would say that at least 50% of the time there is still a star level player left to be selected at #8, and teams just blew those picks. But that just underscores how difficult it is to pick the gems out of the bucket of solid guys and roleplayers leftover once you hit that pick range.
Anyway, it does give some idea why trading that pick for a good but not necessarily star vet is very much a viable strategy. If you're trading away a Top 3 pick, you better be getting back a star. If you're trading away a #8? An established starter, defensive stopper, rim protector, dependable 6th man...all of those guys are very much in the range of what you normally get at #8 anyway.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Even before slipping down one spot, I was in favor of trading the pick. I suspect that come draft day, we will trade it for a veteran who will provide instant boost.
K
KingMilz
Guest
It's pretty bad of the NBA imo to not realise that the Kings/Jazz/whichever other lottery team in the West needed this pick way more than the East. Honestly the NBA had to give the first pick to one of the West lottery teams, I mean if you can't make the playoffs in the East you just completely fail at basketball. Making the playoffs in the West you got to win like 50 games or very close to it and the West had 8 of the best 10 teams in the playoffs and the Suns and Timberwolves probs would have been better than quiet a few of the East playoff teams.
Getting the 8th pick and whatever pick the Jazz got is not going to get them out of the bottom, giving Cleveland like there 5th top 1-5 pick in a terrible confrernce where they SHOULD have made the playoffs but were so awful they didn't is a joke. You don't need a #1 pick to the playoffs in the East, it's really not that hard in the West we had a 48/49 Suns team miss out which was a better team than all but two of the Eastern Playoffs teams.
Give the pick to teams that need it the most not ones that are in a position where they should be competing but sucked so badly they could not, we can't atm compete in the West that's the difference we could compete in the East. I wish nothing but the worst for Cleveland.
Getting the 8th pick and whatever pick the Jazz got is not going to get them out of the bottom, giving Cleveland like there 5th top 1-5 pick in a terrible confrernce where they SHOULD have made the playoffs but were so awful they didn't is a joke. You don't need a #1 pick to the playoffs in the East, it's really not that hard in the West we had a 48/49 Suns team miss out which was a better team than all but two of the Eastern Playoffs teams.
Give the pick to teams that need it the most not ones that are in a position where they should be competing but sucked so badly they could not, we can't atm compete in the West that's the difference we could compete in the East. I wish nothing but the worst for Cleveland.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Kerry Kittles would have been nice
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Why are you talking about the NBA "realising" who should get the pick, and giving it to Cleveland? It's pretty obvious the lottery isn't fixed.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Really cause the NBA has never fixed the lottery before.......just like they never fix games or favor certain players/teams.........
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Explain how they could possibly fix the lottery instead of just talking nonsense and not attempting to back it up.
You'd have to be an idiot to think the lottery is fixed, or ever was fixed. And it is absolutely NOT the same thing as favoring certain players/teams.
K
KingMilz
Guest
You have to be in complete denial to think it's never been fixed first of all and how is it different to changing the course of a game exactly? Cause your changing the course of a whole franchise...
I have already earlier in the thread said what my thinking is and that's if you get a top 5 pick for the next 3 years you can't be in the lottery that way you are forced to trade/develop talent instead of relying on tanking non stop like we have and teams like the Cavs. To have 3 #1 picks in like 8 years or whatever is crazy and they had other top 5 picks in TT and whoever.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
So why don't you go ahead and explain how it was fixed? Actually don't bother, I couldn't be bothered reading it. Fixing a game can be done through bad calls etc. which are completely subjective, it's much harder to fool representatives from every team who are actually watching the draw take place in front of their eyes. It's a terrible argument which has been debunked time and time again, but I suppose conspiracy theorists never have been the type to take evidence into account.
Ok but that has nothing to do with the lottery being fixed.
K
KingMilz
Guest
No but it stops teams like Cleveland getting the #1 pick 2 years in a row and in 3 of the last 4
Lottery system is heartbreaking, but the tanking epidemic would be epic if we adopted MLB or NFL draft rules. Suck for 2 years and you're set for the next 10 of your franchise.
One idea that has been thrown around is that if your team moves up to a top 3 pick one year, then you have a 0% chance in the next year to do so.
One idea that has been thrown around is that if your team moves up to a top 3 pick one year, then you have a 0% chance in the next year to do so.
Hadlowe
Starter
Thomas Robinson was the first prospect, not Williams.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Their games aren't all that similar though. It's pointless comparing players based just on height.
Try to actually think a little bit before you post something emotional and irrational. Why the hell would the NBA "give" the Cavs another #1 pick? To make up for losing Lebron? Please. I guarantee you Adam Silver wasn't thrilled they won the lottery again because, frankly, nobody is really happy about it outside of Cleveland. If your theory is correct and the NBA chose who got the #1 pick, then it would be the Lakers who would have won, for obvious reasons.
Honestly, I don't really care that the Cavs got the #1 pick. Sure, I'm disappointed as I am EVERY YEAR that not only do the Kings not get in the top 3 but that we moved down a spot again. But I'd rather have an incompetent franchise like the Cavs get the #1 over a team from the West like the Lakers, Jazz, etc. We don't want to see a non-playoff team in the West accelerate to the playoffs quicker -- it's hard enough as it is right now.
Still different players. Robinson's issue is he had horrid court awareness, especially on D. I think that's when of Gordon's strengths.
Oh, and FYI, Robinson has had a strong second second as a back-up in Portland. Only 12 MPG, but upped his FG%, rebounding, decreased his TOV's. Easily one of the more productive bench bigs in the NBA. So I wouldn't count him out of being a starter in the future either, being only 23. Heck if he had the minutes to qualify, he would have matched Love and Chandler with RBG%
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Gordon and Smart can't shoot. There are lots of bench guys that can't shoot in the NBA, or have jobs at Jiffy Lube. Both of those guys have high bust potential. Heck, Smart doesn't even have the quicks, but I guess he has a position. Gordon has athleticism, but he doesn't have a position. I'd still take Stauskas over either one of them. He'll probably be a good bench guy, eventually. Or, if you want to go for a high ceiling project, maybe Capela - pick him, forget about him, send him to D League for a couple of years, and maybe he turns into a legit starter. Or not.
The 8th pick isn't worth squat. If you have the 8th pick you might as well have the 15th pick, or the 25th pick for that matter, and everybody knows it. Maybe we can get The Prince back with the 8th pick. Or Beno. Somebody like that, maybe. Heck, I'm not even sure you could get those guys for the 8th pick. But you certainly aren't going to get a legit starter with that 8th pick. At best you're going to get a mediocre bench guy. As far as Thompson is concerned, I'd bet PDA has had conversations with every team in the league on him. No takers. He has a $6 mill/year contract, which is probably $2 mill/year more than he's worth. He's not even salvage value. You have to pay some team to take him away. Maybe you package Thompson with the 8th pick and get nothing in return except for his cap space.
The 8th pick isn't worth squat. If you have the 8th pick you might as well have the 15th pick, or the 25th pick for that matter, and everybody knows it. Maybe we can get The Prince back with the 8th pick. Or Beno. Somebody like that, maybe. Heck, I'm not even sure you could get those guys for the 8th pick. But you certainly aren't going to get a legit starter with that 8th pick. At best you're going to get a mediocre bench guy. As far as Thompson is concerned, I'd bet PDA has had conversations with every team in the league on him. No takers. He has a $6 mill/year contract, which is probably $2 mill/year more than he's worth. He's not even salvage value. You have to pay some team to take him away. Maybe you package Thompson with the 8th pick and get nothing in return except for his cap space.
If Sac ends up with Gordon, I'd be ok with it but I think he's a guy that is going to move up draft boards as the team workouts start. Remember, some guys drop and some move up. Sully get dropped out of the top 10 I think because of back concerns. Could that happen to Embiid? If he doesn't get a medical clearance before the draft, I think he drops. Who is the next CJ McCollum, who moves up the boards during workouts? I think potential movers are Payton, very athletic, Ennis is a guy who I think can move up. Perspectives will certainly change as the days go by.
Albatros
Starter
What player thats come into the NBA shooting 40% from the line has turned into a capable shooter? Thats a genuine question btw, Gordon will need to at least keep defenses honest from the three point line too if you want him to be a Small Forward, otherwise It's just another player for the D to ignore and frustrate Cuz, so he can look over the double team and see absolutely no shooters anywhere.
They tried T-Rob at SF some in the summer league IIRC and obviously he was a disaster, if anyone reminds me of T-Rob it's Randle, a bully boy in College who will get his comeuppance in the NBA and will have to drift.
They tried T-Rob at SF some in the summer league IIRC and obviously he was a disaster, if anyone reminds me of T-Rob it's Randle, a bully boy in College who will get his comeuppance in the NBA and will have to drift.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well, I think the saving grace for Randle is that he is highly HIGHLY skilled. He's more of a young pre-jumper Milsap type. TRob's problem is that he survived on his superior physicality in college, only to move up in class to a league where he no longer had it. Randle though has some serious offensive skills. Who knows about the rest of course.
As for Gordon, if we were picking 20th and Gordon was there, sure, you could consider it. Undersized hustle player who brings it on defense but has limited skill and might be a tweener? Ok, once you hit that speculative pick range you can draft that. but you are taking a WHOLE lot on faith when you draft that player Top 10. IF he bulks up. IF he learns how to shoot. IF it translates. And IF it does all that...he's still almost surely not a star. Just a good roleplayer.
The real attraction of trading that pick if there is a good deal out there is eliminating all those "ifs" and the years it might take to wait on them to resolve. Just on the Gordon (i.e. kinda big man front) if you took the #8 pick out for a league wide spin and offered it to:
Philly for Thaddeus Young
Utah for Favors
Utah for Kanter
Cleveland for Tristan Thompson
Milwaulkee for Ilyasova
Chicago for Gibson
Houston for Asik
Toronto for Johnson
etc. etc. I would be mildly shocked if you did not get interest from a team or two. That pick represents a solid proven NBA guy already. Somebody you KNOW can play without worrying about the "IFs".
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Albatros
Starter
Hmm I dunno maybe I'm wrong then, I watched Kentucky quite a lot and just wasn't that excited by Randle, flashed a couple of spin moves, nice up and unders, but when they were cut off he looked a bit lost, fell in love with trying to take people off the dribble and I don't know if he's got that ability from what I saw anyway.
I agree about Gordon though, he's another I just can't get excited about. Don't watch a huge amount of college ball anyway so...
I agree about Gordon though, he's another I just can't get excited about. Don't watch a huge amount of college ball anyway so...
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