Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
A B is just an F with a couple extra lines added to it.
2019 NBA Draft thread
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
A B is just an F with a couple extra lines added to it.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The funny thing is they kind of got played anyway. Everyone knew they were looking for space this summer and Barnes opted out anyway. Now they have JJ sitting on their books.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah, looking back at it, the Mavs really made a move for no reason. Not that I'm complaining because we got a legit SF (who we're probably re-signing despite our collective existential panic attacks) out of it.
Heuge
Starter
You pulled the what qualifies you to second guess card on a team discussion forum...really?!?
If you can’t see this as even slightly a poor use of assets, there is no point in the debate. Your mind was made up before the picks occurred.
Again, it’s the second round. It isn’t the end of the world but I do think this shows, yet again, the weakness of this FO.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
At least Vivek got to take his annual shooter to satisfy his fetish, and he made some cash on the side too. Kings fans should be stoked!
Kingfanpaul
Starter
I won't deny that you are probably right, but we really don't know at this point. Everyone is just guessing at this point. Usually the draft in general is a crap shoot outside of maybe a few top guys. When you get to the second round it's even worse. How many second rounders actually turn out to be more than a serviceable role player? Not many. Diamond in the rough. Needle in the haystack stuff. Odds are none of our 2nds would amount to much no matter who they were. What if just one of them turns out to be a serviceable player, then maybe we did maximize our capital. They are just second rounders... no reason to get too high or too low in our feelings about it.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
How could you possibly know the draft boards of all 30 teams? I don’t need an answer from you to know, to a certainty, that you couldn’t possibly.
I like you Sactowndog, but are you really trying to sell that here? SMH.
As for not knowing who James was, I’m gonna call shenanigans on that too considering that ESPN cued up video highlights of him right after the selection. If they didn’t know who he was, how’d they possibly have the highlights ready to go? Riddle me that one.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I’m sure every NBA FO and/or GM would hire Sactowndog in a heartbeat if he could provide them the draft boards of every other franchise in the league. That’s pretty invaluable info for someone to have.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
When you speak in absolutes and truths, then he’ll yes I’m gonna pull that out.
You’re the one making a blanket and bold statement that can’t possibly be proven true and requires info nobody possibly could have. And you’re stating it as FACT when you’re far from it. Just admit that you really don’t have any clue. Because you don’t. It’s supposition. Assumptions and guess work.
I’ve never once stated that I have all the answers. Because I don’t. But I do know you don’t either. Nor does anybody else on this board.
We’re here to share opinions and our passion for this team. But when fans come across as if they they have all the answers and make ridiculous claims that they can’t in any way back up then, yes, I’m gonna call BS on it. Sorry if that bothers you. It’s nothing personal. I have no issue with you as a poster. But I do take issue with this really poor take positioned as fact.
You have no idea whether or not another team would have drafted the players the KINGS did (except for #60). Furthermore, your supposition that the KINGS could have signed them as unrestricted FA’s is also a ridiculous assumption since it’s far from guaranteed that those players would have signed with the KINGS had they even made it to FA. One of the reasons there is a such thing as a draft is so teams can own rights to a player(s) without having to compete for their services with other franchises.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
To piggy back my reply above, I'm gonna add this to the board in general. Specifically those dis'ing what Vlade and the KINGS did last night,
If you're someone like Bajaden that went on record stating that you had scouted and evaluated most, if not all, of these prospects and that in your opinion the KINGS could have got better value -- then that would be a take. It doesn't at all make it factual, but it is at least an opinion supported by hours and hours and hours of work. Yet, it still wouldn't take into account the direction of the franchise, what they covet most in their players and what their future roadmap might be.
However, watching select games, youtube highlights and pouring over advanced stats for a couple dozen or more college players doesn't qualify anyone to factually claim that any franchises draft chart is way off the mark.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that outside of about a half people on this site, most of you are looking at data from 3rd party websites such as NBAdraft.net or DraftExpress or something similar. You're making judgements on 'value' based off the ranking of another fan. They may be a fan like Bajaden, that watches hours of college games and film -- but 99% of them aren't professionals. It's merely fan opinion.
Hell, even legit draft gurus such as ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay often find themselves at great odds with NFL scouts/GM's over player evaluations. You really believe amateurs that don't put in the same amount of time and effort nor have the same access to the same info or personnel are gonna be any better? This stuff is largely subjective as it is.
In conclusion, I get that it's cool to have an opinion. I get that their are players we all favor over others for various reasons. And when our team doesn't go in that direction, we all feel let down. But to make claims like many of the ones cited here today and position them as fact is just silly talk. It really is.
If you're someone like Bajaden that went on record stating that you had scouted and evaluated most, if not all, of these prospects and that in your opinion the KINGS could have got better value -- then that would be a take. It doesn't at all make it factual, but it is at least an opinion supported by hours and hours and hours of work. Yet, it still wouldn't take into account the direction of the franchise, what they covet most in their players and what their future roadmap might be.
However, watching select games, youtube highlights and pouring over advanced stats for a couple dozen or more college players doesn't qualify anyone to factually claim that any franchises draft chart is way off the mark.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that outside of about a half people on this site, most of you are looking at data from 3rd party websites such as NBAdraft.net or DraftExpress or something similar. You're making judgements on 'value' based off the ranking of another fan. They may be a fan like Bajaden, that watches hours of college games and film -- but 99% of them aren't professionals. It's merely fan opinion.
Hell, even legit draft gurus such as ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay often find themselves at great odds with NFL scouts/GM's over player evaluations. You really believe amateurs that don't put in the same amount of time and effort nor have the same access to the same info or personnel are gonna be any better? This stuff is largely subjective as it is.
In conclusion, I get that it's cool to have an opinion. I get that their are players we all favor over others for various reasons. And when our team doesn't go in that direction, we all feel let down. But to make claims like many of the ones cited here today and position them as fact is just silly talk. It really is.
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Dime Dropper
All-Star
Most people are just giving their opinions. At this point I actually think the counter movement against the complainers is far more out of hand than any actual complaining. Most people are not having meltdowns here, they're disagreeing with the decisions and choices made by the front office. Only time will tell who is right.
I didn't like our draft. James was likely a reach, and Guy is the most predictable pick ever given Vivek's obsession with shooters. I thought there were better options available at 40, and trading down to get Guy and cash was not something I see as a positive. There is nothing melodramatic about this opinion, nor am I throwing the toys out of the pram. I will be very happy if I'm wrong.
I have the advantage of living in a time zone (Ohio) that allowed me to go to sleep around the time the second round started.
Also have the idea we have really not to many roster spots that will be open and with the way groups of second round picks were being traded to me it shows not much value especially where we were picking anyway.
Stash one away, and let the other two fight it out and let’s see what we have before the season starts. I see where he was coming from by drafting who he did and really think one of them will work out pretty darn good for us.
Also have the idea we have really not to many roster spots that will be open and with the way groups of second round picks were being traded to me it shows not much value especially where we were picking anyway.
Stash one away, and let the other two fight it out and let’s see what we have before the season starts. I see where he was coming from by drafting who he did and really think one of them will work out pretty darn good for us.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I'm specifically referring to those that have gone beyond giving their opinion. Several have positioned their opinions as fact. There's a big difference.
There's no problem with that at all. Especially when someone supports their opinion with sound reasoning and/or provable facts.
However, I believe much of the complaining is based upon player rankings/evaluations from other 3rd party fan sites and not rooted in deep, wide-reaching educated 1st person observation. Again, there's a big difference.
I mean, since a beat writer or DraftExpress.com didn't have the player rated as highly as another -- that somehow makes the KINGS idiots?
That's the weak take I'm contesting.
Cool. But at least you aren't trying to spin this take as a fact.
I will drill down and ask why you believe James was a reach? What your reasoning?
You can obviously speak for yourself, but it is my belief that 99% of fans didn't know who he was and because of that, they somehow believe he can't be any good or somehow qualifies as 'a reach' when in reality they don't have the first damn clue.
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bubulina
Bench
Just a little observation: Whomever we would have picked at 60 would not have been drafted otherwise... So by that logic, nobody should be drafted at 60.
Heuge
Starter
Opinion: I think the Kings reached on all picks last night.
Fact: many media outlets placed our picks well outside of the draft range
Fact: The Kings have done this before and it did not turn out well. See Papi.
Fact: players are often signed to contracts when not drafted.
Opinion: I think the front office misused its assets last night.
I don't mind drafting 3 guys that play the same position but at least draft three 3&D wings or three centers or three backup PGs to give yourself the best shot at finding a serviceable player. I really don't understand Vlade sometimes. ESPN didn't even have a highlight package for Justin James. That's how obscure of a pick that was.
Grant's going to tell us that not only do we not need draft picks but it doesn't matter where they're drafted as long as you get the guy you want.
Grant's going to tell us that not only do we not need draft picks but it doesn't matter where they're drafted as long as you get the guy you want.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
We didn't?
James is more of a pure two who Vlade said he could see playing three down the road. Guy is more of a combo guard who will be seeing PG time of the bench when Bogi and/or HG are on the floor to help him with ball handling. Vanja is a pure two guard but also won't be coming over for another couple of seasons or so. It should be noted that James seems to project out as a solid defender if he puts on muscle and is a better shooter over his career than his senior season in Wyoming would indicate.
They're all shooting guards of various sizes and listed as shooting guards by most sites. The only two positions I wouldn't have wasted draft picks on would have been SG and PF unless the picks were on highly talented but injured players. That's not what we got here. We got a guy we could have just signed 5 minutes after the draft in James and then two other guys who play the same position.
In the end it probably won't matter since I doubt any of them will contribute meaningful minutes but all I'm saying is give yourself a shot at landing someone that can contribute. Even if the odds are low.
sactowndog
All-Star
He shot 73% from the line. Hardly indicative of a good shooter.
That being said, who are we playing at the 3? Barnes (if he resigns) for 48 minutes a game. We got torched from that spot last year. At a minimum, I hoped we would get someone who could defend it for 5 minutes.
The Guy signing was fine, but one must question why a non-playoff team is moving out of spots 2 years in a row.
sactowndog
All-Star
The one without a clue is you. It wasn’t just media types that didn’t have James anywhere on their board. James may be all world but it’s clear he could have been had as a free agent signing.
Vlade wasted assets yet again....
1) by picking James in that spot
2) trading down for cash again which does not improve your team
The only way this draft isn’t perplexing is if Vlade plans to trade Bogdan this year for a SF.
sactowndog
All-Star
Yep we have 2 guys that Vlade could see playing 3 down the road: James and Bagley.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Is it reasonable to expect these questions to be answered on draft night, before free agency, when the team doesn’t have a first round pick?
Agent23
Starter
Asset Management
sactowndog
All-Star
Is it possible they could sign a couple SF’s? Sure....
But given:
1) no player drafted higher than 36 worked out for the Kings.
2) Vlade’s inability to sign anyone of note last year under much less competition
It would be nice to have some contingency plans heading into free agency.
This is such a bad mentality to have as a franchise. It's almost yearly now that there's 1 or even 2 guys in the 2nd round that end up making a real impact from the 2nd round. They aren't "throwaway pick". It's assets and a chance to find a huge boost to your team you weren't expecting for a bargain price.
And its not just the 2nd round picks. Vlade was asked if he shopped around the cap space at all or looked to make trades. He basically said they didn't look at anything and stuck to their plan and were happy with their plan.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Anyone of note? If we’re worried about backup SF, I’d say Bjelica and Yogi meet standards of signings of note.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
We'll know in a year or two how the 2nd rounders compared to other teams' 2nd rounders. If some teams that drafted after the Kings got legit players and the Kings didn't, it's a failure. If not, then it isn't.
Why is the 2nd round important, at least to me? It gives an indication of the homework that Vlade and his staff put into the draft, and therefore it gives an indication of what might happen in future drafts. For the foreseeable future, the Kings are probably not going to be in the top five slots of any upcoming draft. They are going to have to make a living selecting in the mid-1st round and lower. So far, with the possible exception of Giles and Bogs, the Kings have whiffed on players in that draft range. Now that Vlade and Peja have some experience under their belt, I hope they can find some gems in the mid to lower regions area of the draft. Other teams with quality management teams certainly do.
Why is the 2nd round important, at least to me? It gives an indication of the homework that Vlade and his staff put into the draft, and therefore it gives an indication of what might happen in future drafts. For the foreseeable future, the Kings are probably not going to be in the top five slots of any upcoming draft. They are going to have to make a living selecting in the mid-1st round and lower. So far, with the possible exception of Giles and Bogs, the Kings have whiffed on players in that draft range. Now that Vlade and Peja have some experience under their belt, I hope they can find some gems in the mid to lower regions area of the draft. Other teams with quality management teams certainly do.
