2019 NBA Draft thread

This is such a bad mentality to have as a franchise. It's almost yearly now that there's 1 or even 2 guys in the 2nd round that end up making a real impact from the 2nd round. They aren't "throwaway pick". It's assets and a chance to find a huge boost to your team you weren't expecting for a bargain price.

And its not just the 2nd round picks. Vlade was asked if he shopped around the cap space at all or looked to make trades. He basically said they didn't look at anything and stuck to their plan and were happy with their plan.
Look at the 2015 draft 2nd rounders:

Montrezl Harrell
Willy Hernangomez
Richaun Holmes
Josh Richardson
Pat Connaughton
Norman Powell

There are guys to be had in the 2nd round that can give you anywhere from average bench contributions to full on playoff level contributions. It's rare but you don't just go drafting Wet Biscuit McGee out of Vacaville community college because you don't think that the 2nd round matters. At least give yourself a shot. If someone gives you a lottery ticket for free, you don't just throw it away because the odds of winning are low. That's kind of what the Kings did here.
 
Taking 3 older SGs, a position we're stacked at, that weren't highly regarded by pretty much anybody is not good process when trying to find a rotation player in the 2nd round.


This sums it up extremely well. We didn't come close to maximizing our draft capital tonight. That's an all too-common problem for this front office.
I'm not even going to try to debate whether it is the organization's or this front office's lack of direction or decision-making ability, or Vlade Divac's lacking the ability to scout young talents, or any other things you seem to insinuate.

But to simply just applied words that have the implication of guarantee is just wrong. "We drafted 3 SGs when we got a bunch" = a wrong decision. What if one of them turns out to be very productive in our NBA Finals series 5 years from now?

When Rene Descartes (think, if you don't know who he is) first created these glass tubes filled with liquid that are placed directly onto your cornea in 1632, people thought he was crazy too. But now millions of people just do that to correct their eyesight.

Obviously, I'm not comparing the 2019 Kings' draft to Descartes inventing contact lenses, that would just be a huge leap in logic. Just like your assessment so far.
 
This is such a bad mentality to have as a franchise. It's almost yearly now that there's 1 or even 2 guys in the 2nd round that end up making a real impact from the 2nd round. They aren't "throwaway pick". It's assets and a chance to find a huge boost to your team you weren't expecting for a bargain price.

And its not just the 2nd round picks. Vlade was asked if he shopped around the cap space at all or looked to make trades. He basically said they didn't look at anything and stuck to their plan and were happy with their plan.
Our general lack of due diligence doesn't give me a lot of confidence that we'll get this critical offseason right. Fixating on guys who will work out for you when a lot of players won't work out for your team is a bad strategy.

The good front offices are constantly searching every possible avenue to improve. Even gaining a small edge. Small good decisions and small bad decisions both add up.
 
To ye who knows the future, I admire thee.

I know a bit about Kyle Guy from watching him in the tourney. The other two, I have no idea. I'll be excited to watch them (hopefully) in 10 days or so when I'm at the CA Classic again this year and learn about them as people and players on the Kings..
 
Just a little observation: Whomever we would have picked at 60 would not have been drafted otherwise... So by that logic, nobody should be drafted at 60.
And hence why the 60th pick is usually worth nothing in trade and why Vlade used it on a stash that will probably never come to the NBA.
 
This is such a bad mentality to have as a franchise. It's almost yearly now that there's 1 or even 2 guys in the 2nd round that end up making a real impact from the 2nd round. They aren't "throwaway pick". It's assets and a chance to find a huge boost to your team you weren't expecting for a bargain price.

And its not just the 2nd round picks. Vlade was asked if he shopped around the cap space at all or looked to make trades. He basically said they didn't look at anything and stuck to their plan and were happy with their plan.
This is true, but no-one knows who the real impact players will be or not. Not worth getting more than mildly annoyed about if at all imo. I look at it, as Guy looked decent and the other picks are just taking flyers. I was hoping they pick up jackrabbit Jalen Leque with reportedly 43" vertical leap, btw who might still be out there - hint hint....wink wink....know what I mean.
 
There's no problem with that at all. Especially when someone supports their opinion with sound reasoning and/or provable facts.

However, I believe much of the complaining is based upon player rankings/evaluations from other 3rd party fan sites and not rooted in deep, wide-reaching educated 1st person observation. Again, there's a big difference.

I mean, since a beat writer or DraftExpress.com didn't have the player rated as highly as another -- that somehow makes the KINGS idiots?

That's the weak take I'm contesting.



Cool. But at least you aren't trying to spin this take as a fact.

I will drill down and ask why you believe James was a reach? What your reasoning?

You can obviously speak for yourself, but it is my belief that 99% of fans didn't know who he was and because of that, they somehow believe he can't be any good or somehow qualifies as 'a reach' when in reality they don't have the first damn clue.
First of all this franchise has drafted so badly for so long that it definetly doesnt deserve any benefit of the doubt. As I said in some other topic, since the Jimmer draft an average fan would've most likely drafted better than this franchise.

Nowadays there is so much tape, data and expert analysis available on these prospects that fans are more than able to form educated opinions on these prospects. Imo if a fan disagrees with what the organisation does, it shouldnt require that these fans has to "prove" that they have put hours and hours of their time in watching tape, especially when the franchise itself has ridiculously bad track record in drafting. My point is that it really is equally stupid to blidly defend the draft picks of this organisation as it is to define them as busts without spending any time scouting their tape/numbers.

This type of blind trust comes when the FO has a proven track record in drafting and talent evaluation. Atm there isnt that type of track record so it shouldnt be a surprise if fans are confused when all of the three picks are outside of top 60 by these draft sites and expert big boards.
 
First of all this franchise has drafted so badly for so long that it definetly doesnt deserve any benefit of the doubt. As I said in some other topic, since the Jimmer draft an average fan would've most likely drafted better than this franchise.

Nowadays there is so much tape, data and expert analysis available on these prospects that fans are more than able to form educated opinions on these prospects. Imo if a fan disagrees with what the organisation does, it shouldnt require that these fans has to "prove" that they have put hours and hours of their time in watching tape, especially when the franchise itself has ridiculously bad track record in drafting.

To your first point, it’s not right to hold the current FO and coaching staff accountable for mistakes that occurred well before they were employed by the franchise. You wouldn’t apply that logic toward De’Aaron Fox or Marvin Bagley, right?

Vlade’s track record in the draft began with WCS. So he should only be judged from that point on. So far, he hasn’t been terrible. So why shouldn't he receive some kind of benefit of the doubt?

Regarding your second point, I clearly stated that there is a big difference between someone forming an educated opinion and supporting it with solid reasoning/factual evidence versus inventing facts — which several people have done.

When someone makes the claim that they know the order of the draft boards of all 30 teams and another pretends to know to a certainty how the draft would have unfolded had the KINGS not selected Justin James at #40 — those are classic examples of made up facts. That’s what I’m challenging.

I know someone like Bajaden has highly educated opinions on most these draft prospects, yet I don’t see him pretending to know what 30 different front offices were thinking or what they may have done given different circumstances. There’s good reason for that.
 
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Sad that a random smart person on a message board would have developed a much stronger draft for the Kings and taken the correct approach in the 2nd round (hunt for home-run picks) than a a billion dollar organization.
Exactly. I thought with all that WCS talk and whether or not we are extending him, that we would have a backup plan in a guy like Bol Bol.. Guess I was wrong! I would've taken Bol Bol with the 40 in a heartbeat.

Bol Bol was a great pick for Denver and I feel that he's going to make that good team even better. He will probably ride the pine the first year so I will give him a 7ppg/5.5rpg/1.2bpg in 15-20 minutes per game.
 
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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Exactly. I thought with all that WCS talk and whether or not we are extending him, that we would have a backup plan in a guy like Bol Bol.. Guess I was wrong! I would've taken Bol Bol with the 40 in a heartbeat.
Considering how many teams DIDN'T take him, you have to think they just might know more about his potential for staying healthy. You honestly think Bol Bol would be a good backup plan for WCS? Seriously?
 
Considering how many teams DIDN'T take him, you have to think they just might know more about his potential for staying healthy. You honestly think Bol Bol would be a good backup plan for WCS? Seriously?
First off I didn't say "a good backup plan". Don't put words in my mouth. K? thx

Second, I am not talking about WCS leaving then him taking all of his playing time from day one. I was saying that IF WCS was leaving then it they should have taken a flyer on him since he was in the second round and not a guaranteed rookie contract. You know, backup plan? When you lose someone at that position then why not take a chance on a guy that plays that same position who was a 5* recruit a year ago?

His health is a HUGE question mark but the talent is there in bucket loads. Kid has played almost his whole life, and had been scouted since he was 13 years old He was a FIVE STAR recruit going into college so it's not like he just started playing the game and is raw talent wise.
 
To your first point, it’s not right to hold the current FO and coaching staff accountable for mistakes that occurred well before they were employed by the franchise. You wouldn’t apply that logic toward De’Aaron Fox or Marvin Bagley, right?

Vlade’s track record in the draft began with WCS. So he should only be judged from that point on. So far, he hasn’t been terrible. So why shouldn't he receive some kind of benefit of the doubt?
I'm aplying that logic on every franchise and other sports too. Since organisations in general make bad decisions so often, I dont think no one should start with benefit of the doubt and lose it only if you are very bad. To me you earn benefit of the doubt by being constantly awesome at drafting and evaluating talent. That clearly hasnt been the case with this FO so they shouldnt get any benefit of the doubt.

Regarding your second point, I clearly stated that there is a big difference between someone forming an educated opinion and supporting it with solid reasoning/factual evidence versus inventing facts — which several people have done.

When someone makes the claim that they know the order of the draft boards of all 30 teams and another pretends to know to a certainty how the draft would have unfolded had the KINGS not selected Justin James at #40 — those are classic examples of made up facts. That’s what I’m challenging.

I know someone like Bajaden has highly educated opinions on most these draft prospects, yet I don’t see him pretending to know what 30 different front offices were thinking or what they may have done given different circumstances. There’s good reason for that.
Sure but you are talking about one specific person here, I was talking more in general.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
First off I didn't say "a good backup plan". Don't put words in my mouth. K? thx

Second, I am not talking about WCS leaving then him taking all of his playing time from day one. I was saying that IF WCS was leaving then it they should have taken a flyer on him since he was in the second round and not a guaranteed rookie contract. You know, backup plan? When you lose someone at that position then why not take a chance on a guy that plays that same position who was a 5* recruit a year ago?

His health is a HUGE question mark but the talent is there in bucket loads. Kid has played almost his whole life, and had been scouted since he was 13 years old He was a FIVE STAR recruit going into college so it's not like he just started playing the game and is raw talent wise.
Oh excuse me. I just thought you thought it was a good plan or you wouldn't be suggesting it. Quit reading more into my comments than what is meant.