2019 NBA Draft thread

You mean in the same way that Thon Maker wasn't the catalyst for the Nikola Mirotic acquisition by the Bucks. JJ was an asset that we used with Z-Bo's contract to acquire Barnes from Dallas. Dallas, at the time, really did seem to envision him as being a role-player in their rotation for them.
The funny thing is they kind of got played anyway. Everyone knew they were looking for space this summer and Barnes opted out anyway. Now they have JJ sitting on their books.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
The funny thing is they kind of got played anyway. Everyone knew they were looking for space this summer and Barnes opted out anyway. Now they have JJ sitting on their books.
Yeah, looking back at it, the Mavs really made a move for no reason. Not that I'm complaining because we got a legit SF (who we're probably re-signing despite our collective existential panic attacks) out of it.
 
Thing is, you have no clue whether this is true or complete fiction.

Furthermore, if they didn’t select the guys they did in the 2nd round. Wouldn’t the players you’d rather have seen them draft in the same spots been in the same boat? The entire 2nd round, especially 40 and on is a complete crapshoot.

It all comes down to what a team sees in the player and how they might fit in with their team.

They had to use the ‘asset’ to draft someone. Or trade or sell it. People are upset when they sell one pick to drop 8 spots and they’re also pissed when they don’t draft the player they want — who is also far from a sure thing. I don’t get it.

I guarantee someone could say the same of whomever you feel would have been ‘wiser asset management’.

In all seriousness, what qualifies you to know that? I’ve been watching basketball since the late 70’s and haven’t missed many KINGS games in the past 25 years and I readily admit that I don’t know. I have preferences and players I like, but I don’t ever truly know for sure.

Hint, neither do you.

Lastly, you act as if other teams wouldn’t have been interested in the same players as undrafted FA’s. There’s no guarantee they sign with the KINGS if given multiple options. Drafting them ensures it. They obviously wanted these players and didn’t want to compete for them in FA, assuming nobody selected them before the end of the draft.
You pulled the what qualifies you to second guess card on a team discussion forum...really?!?

If you can’t see this as even slightly a poor use of assets, there is no point in the debate. Your mind was made up before the picks occurred.

Again, it’s the second round. It isn’t the end of the world but I do think this shows, yet again, the weakness of this FO.
 
Taking 3 older SGs, a position we're stacked at, that weren't highly regarded by pretty much anybody is not good process when trying to find a rotation player in the 2nd round.


This sums it up extremely well. We didn't come close to maximizing our draft capital tonight. That's an all too-common problem for this front office.
I won't deny that you are probably right, but we really don't know at this point. Everyone is just guessing at this point. Usually the draft in general is a crap shoot outside of maybe a few top guys. When you get to the second round it's even worse. How many second rounders actually turn out to be more than a serviceable role player? Not many. Diamond in the rough. Needle in the haystack stuff. Odds are none of our 2nds would amount to much no matter who they were. What if just one of them turns out to be a serviceable player, then maybe we did maximize our capital. They are just second rounders... no reason to get too high or too low in our feelings about it.
 
Well I can tell you for certain Justin James wasn’t even on one teams draft board. It was also telling ESPN said nothing because no one had a file on the guy. Even the SB Nation draft analyst said he had no idea who he was.

Justin James relatively was a reach equal to PappaG. For Kings fans sake let’s hope this works out better than Vlade’s previous reaches.
How could you possibly know the draft boards of all 30 teams? I don’t need an answer from you to know, to a certainty, that you couldn’t possibly.

I like you Sactowndog, but are you really trying to sell that here? SMH.

As for not knowing who James was, I’m gonna call shenanigans on that too considering that ESPN cued up video highlights of him right after the selection. If they didn’t know who he was, how’d they possibly have the highlights ready to go? Riddle me that one.
 
You pulled the what qualifies you to second guess card on a team discussion forum...really?!?

If you can’t see this as even slightly a poor use of assets, there is no point in the debate. Your mind was made up before the picks occurred.

Again, it’s the second round. It isn’t the end of the world but I do think this shows, yet again, the weakness of this FO.
When you speak in absolutes and truths, then he’ll yes I’m gonna pull that out.

You’re the one making a blanket and bold statement that can’t possibly be proven true and requires info nobody possibly could have. And you’re stating it as FACT when you’re far from it. Just admit that you really don’t have any clue. Because you don’t. It’s supposition. Assumptions and guess work.

I’ve never once stated that I have all the answers. Because I don’t. But I do know you don’t either. Nor does anybody else on this board.

We’re here to share opinions and our passion for this team. But when fans come across as if they they have all the answers and make ridiculous claims that they can’t in any way back up then, yes, I’m gonna call BS on it. Sorry if that bothers you. It’s nothing personal. I have no issue with you as a poster. But I do take issue with this really poor take positioned as fact.

You have no idea whether or not another team would have drafted the players the KINGS did (except for #60). Furthermore, your supposition that the KINGS could have signed them as unrestricted FA’s is also a ridiculous assumption since it’s far from guaranteed that those players would have signed with the KINGS had they even made it to FA. One of the reasons there is a such thing as a draft is so teams can own rights to a player(s) without having to compete for their services with other franchises.
 
To piggy back my reply above, I'm gonna add this to the board in general. Specifically those dis'ing what Vlade and the KINGS did last night,

If you're someone like Bajaden that went on record stating that you had scouted and evaluated most, if not all, of these prospects and that in your opinion the KINGS could have got better value -- then that would be a take. It doesn't at all make it factual, but it is at least an opinion supported by hours and hours and hours of work. Yet, it still wouldn't take into account the direction of the franchise, what they covet most in their players and what their future roadmap might be.

However, watching select games, youtube highlights and pouring over advanced stats for a couple dozen or more college players doesn't qualify anyone to factually claim that any franchises draft chart is way off the mark.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that outside of about a half people on this site, most of you are looking at data from 3rd party websites such as NBAdraft.net or DraftExpress or something similar. You're making judgements on 'value' based off the ranking of another fan. They may be a fan like Bajaden, that watches hours of college games and film -- but 99% of them aren't professionals. It's merely fan opinion.

Hell, even legit draft gurus such as ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay often find themselves at great odds with NFL scouts/GM's over player evaluations. You really believe amateurs that don't put in the same amount of time and effort nor have the same access to the same info or personnel are gonna be any better? This stuff is largely subjective as it is.

In conclusion, I get that it's cool to have an opinion. I get that their are players we all favor over others for various reasons. And when our team doesn't go in that direction, we all feel let down. But to make claims like many of the ones cited here today and position them as fact is just silly talk. It really is.
 
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To piggy back my reply above, I'm gonna add this to the board in general. Specifically those dis'ing what Vlade and the KINGS did last night,

If you're someone like Bajaden that went on record stating that you had scouted and evaluated most, if not all, of these prospects and that in your opinion the KINGS could have got better value -- then that would be a take. It doesn't at all make it factual, but it is at least an opinion supported by hours and hours and hours of work. Yet, it still wouldn't take into account the direction of the franchise, what they covet most in their players and what their future roadmap might be.

However, watching select games, youtube highlights and pouring over advanced stats for a couple dozen or more college players doesn't qualify anyone to factually claim that any franchises draft chart is way off the mark.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that outside of about a half people on this site, most of you are looking at data from 3rd party websites such as NBAdraft.net or DraftExpress or something similar. You're making judgements on 'value' based off the ranking of another fan. They may be a fan like Bajaden, that watches hours of college games and film -- but they aren't professionals. It's just fan opinion.

Hell, even legit draft gurus such as ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay often find themselves at great odds with NFL scouts/GM's over player evaluations. You really believe amateurs that don't put in the same amount of time and effort nor have the same access to the same info or personnel are gonna be any better? This stuff is largely subjective as it is.

In conclusion, I get that it's cool to have an opinion. I get that their are players we all favor over others for various reasons. And when our team doesn't go in that direction, we all feel let down. But to make claims like many of the ones cited here today and position them as fact is just silly talk. It really is.
Most people are just giving their opinions. At this point I actually think the counter movement against the complainers is far more out of hand than any actual complaining. Most people are not having meltdowns here, they're disagreeing with the decisions and choices made by the front office. Only time will tell who is right.

I didn't like our draft. James was likely a reach, and Guy is the most predictable pick ever given Vivek's obsession with shooters. I thought there were better options available at 40, and trading down to get Guy and cash was not something I see as a positive. There is nothing melodramatic about this opinion, nor am I throwing the toys out of the pram. I will be very happy if I'm wrong.
 
I have the advantage of living in a time zone (Ohio) that allowed me to go to sleep around the time the second round started.

Also have the idea we have really not to many roster spots that will be open and with the way groups of second round picks were being traded to me it shows not much value especially where we were picking anyway.

Stash one away, and let the other two fight it out and let’s see what we have before the season starts. I see where he was coming from by drafting who he did and really think one of them will work out pretty darn good for us.
 
Most people are just giving their opinions.
I'm specifically referring to those that have gone beyond giving their opinion. Several have positioned their opinions as fact. There's a big difference.

Most people are not having meltdowns here, they're disagreeing with the decisions and choices made by the front office.
There's no problem with that at all. Especially when someone supports their opinion with sound reasoning and/or provable facts.

However, I believe much of the complaining is based upon player rankings/evaluations from other 3rd party fan sites and not rooted in deep, wide-reaching educated 1st person observation. Again, there's a big difference.

I mean, since a beat writer or DraftExpress.com didn't have the player rated as highly as another -- that somehow makes the KINGS idiots?

That's the weak take I'm contesting.

I didn't like our draft. James was likely a reach, and Guy is the most predictable pick ever given Vivek's obsession with shooters. I thought there were better options available at 40, and trading down to get Guy and cash was not something I see as a positive. There is nothing melodramatic about this opinion, nor am I throwing the toys out of the pram. I will be very happy if I'm wrong.
Cool. But at least you aren't trying to spin this take as a fact.

I will drill down and ask why you believe James was a reach? What your reasoning?

You can obviously speak for yourself, but it is my belief that 99% of fans didn't know who he was and because of that, they somehow believe he can't be any good or somehow qualifies as 'a reach' when in reality they don't have the first damn clue.
 
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Just a little observation: Whomever we would have picked at 60 would not have been drafted otherwise... So by that logic, nobody should be drafted at 60.
That's fine, but it's also why letting workouts convince you so heavily is an issue. In a world where there is a constant stream of video data on anyone and everything it's clearly not the best way to judge talent if the Kings recent draft record is any indication. Clearly they came into this draft with a set plan, they executed set plan, and very little that happened got in the way of that. The issue is outside of Guy likely none of these players were going to be drafted by anyone else. In Vlades presser he almost got defensive when broached with the issue and he said, "They were rated on our board". That's good, but again, historically their talent evaluation skills have been subpar so clearly your "board" isn't the best judge of talent. Part of that is obviously fit though and much like some of those past picks, fit with these picks may be an issue as well. If Kyle Guy gets a shot to play backup PG then he has a chance. Outside of that tough luck.
 
When you speak in absolutes and truths, then he’ll yes I’m gonna pull that out.

You’re the one making a blanket and bold statement that can’t possibly be proven true and requires info nobody possibly could have. And you’re stating it as FACT when you’re far from it. Just admit that you really don’t have any clue. Because you don’t. It’s supposition. Assumptions and guess work.

I’ve never once stated that I have all the answers. Because I don’t. But I do know you don’t either. Nor does anybody else on this board.

We’re here to share opinions and our passion for this team. But when fans come across as if they they have all the answers and make ridiculous claims that they can’t in any way back up then, yes, I’m gonna call BS on it. Sorry if that bothers you. It’s nothing personal. I have no issue with you as a poster. But I do take issue with this really poor take positioned as fact.

You have no idea whether or not another team would have drafted the players the KINGS did (except for #60). Furthermore, your supposition that the KINGS could have signed them as unrestricted FA’s is also a ridiculous assumption since it’s far from guaranteed that those players would have signed with the KINGS had they even made it to FA. One of the reasons there is a such thing as a draft is so teams can own rights to a player(s) without having to compete for their services with other franchises.
Opinion: I think the Kings reached on all picks last night.
Fact: many media outlets placed our picks well outside of the draft range
Fact: The Kings have done this before and it did not turn out well. See Papi.
Fact: players are often signed to contracts when not drafted.
Opinion: I think the front office misused its assets last night.
 
I don't mind drafting 3 guys that play the same position but at least draft three 3&D wings or three centers or three backup PGs to give yourself the best shot at finding a serviceable player. I really don't understand Vlade sometimes. ESPN didn't even have a highlight package for Justin James. That's how obscure of a pick that was.

Grant's going to tell us that not only do we not need draft picks but it doesn't matter where they're drafted as long as you get the guy you want.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I don't mind drafting 3 guys that play the same position but at least draft three 3&D wings or three centers or three backup PGs to give yourself the best shot at finding a serviceable player. I really don't understand Vlade sometimes. ESPN didn't even have a highlight package for Justin James. That's how obscure of a pick that was.

Grant's going to tell us that not only do we not need draft picks but it doesn't matter where they're drafted as long as you get the guy you want.

We didn't?

James is more of a pure two who Vlade said he could see playing three down the road. Guy is more of a combo guard who will be seeing PG time of the bench when Bogi and/or HG are on the floor to help him with ball handling. Vanja is a pure two guard but also won't be coming over for another couple of seasons or so. It should be noted that James seems to project out as a solid defender if he puts on muscle and is a better shooter over his career than his senior season in Wyoming would indicate.
 
We didn't?

James is more of a pure two who Vlade said he could see playing three down the road. Guy is more of a combo guard who will be seeing PG time of the bench when Bogi and/or HG are on the floor to help him with ball handling. Vanja is a pure two guard but also won't be coming over for another couple of seasons or so. It should be noted that James seems to project out as a solid defender if he puts on muscle and is a better shooter over his career than his senior season in Wyoming would indicate.
They're all shooting guards of various sizes and listed as shooting guards by most sites. The only two positions I wouldn't have wasted draft picks on would have been SG and PF unless the picks were on highly talented but injured players. That's not what we got here. We got a guy we could have just signed 5 minutes after the draft in James and then two other guys who play the same position.

In the end it probably won't matter since I doubt any of them will contribute meaningful minutes but all I'm saying is give yourself a shot at landing someone that can contribute. Even if the odds are low.
 
We didn't?

James is more of a pure two who Vlade said he could see playing three down the road. Guy is more of a combo guard who will be seeing PG time of the bench when Bogi and/or HG are on the floor to help him with ball handling. Vanja is a pure two guard but also won't be coming over for another couple of seasons or so. It should be noted that James seems to project out as a solid defender if he puts on muscle and is a better shooter over his career than his senior season in Wyoming would indicate.
He shot 73% from the line. Hardly indicative of a good shooter.

That being said, who are we playing at the 3? Barnes (if he resigns) for 48 minutes a game. We got torched from that spot last year. At a minimum, I hoped we would get someone who could defend it for 5 minutes.

The Guy signing was fine, but one must question why a non-playoff team is moving out of spots 2 years in a row.
 
I'm specifically referring to those that have gone beyond giving their opinion. Several have positioned their opinions as fact. There's a big difference.



There's no problem with that at all. Especially when someone supports their opinion with sound reasoning and/or provable facts.

However, I believe much of the complaining is based upon player rankings/evaluations from other 3rd party fan sites and not rooted in deep, wide-reaching educated 1st person observation. Again, there's a big difference.

I mean, since a beat writer or DraftExpress.com didn't have the player rated as highly as another -- that somehow makes the KINGS idiots?

That's the weak take I'm contesting.



Cool. But at least you aren't trying to spin this take as a fact.

I will drill down and ask why you believe James was a reach? What your reasoning?

You can obviously speak for yourself, but it is my belief that 99% of fans didn't know who he was and because of that, they somehow believe he can't be any good or somehow qualifies as 'a reach' when in reality they don't have the first damn clue.
The one without a clue is you. It wasn’t just media types that didn’t have James anywhere on their board. James may be all world but it’s clear he could have been had as a free agent signing.

Vlade wasted assets yet again....
1) by picking James in that spot
2) trading down for cash again which does not improve your team

The only way this draft isn’t perplexing is if Vlade plans to trade Bogdan this year for a SF.
 
We didn't?

James is more of a pure two who Vlade said he could see playing three down the road. Guy is more of a combo guard who will be seeing PG time of the bench when Bogi and/or HG are on the floor to help him with ball handling. Vanja is a pure two guard but also won't be coming over for another couple of seasons or so. It should be noted that James seems to project out as a solid defender if he puts on muscle and is a better shooter over his career than his senior season in Wyoming would indicate.
Yep we have 2 guys that Vlade could see playing 3 down the road: James and Bagley.
 
That being said, who are we playing at the 3? Barnes (if he resigns) for 48 minutes a game. We got torched from that spot last year. At a minimum, I hoped we would get someone who could defend it for 5 minutes.
Yep we have 2 guys that Vlade could see playing 3 down the road: James and Bagley.
Is it reasonable to expect these questions to be answered on draft night, before free agency, when the team doesn’t have a first round pick?
 
Is it reasonable to expect these questions to be answered on draft night, before free agency, when the team doesn’t have a first round pick?
Is it possible they could sign a couple SF’s? Sure....

But given:
1) no player drafted higher than 36 worked out for the Kings.

2) Vlade’s inability to sign anyone of note last year under much less competition

It would be nice to have some contingency plans heading into free agency.
 
I won't deny that you are probably right, but we really don't know at this point. Everyone is just guessing at this point. Usually the draft in general is a crap shoot outside of maybe a few top guys. When you get to the second round it's even worse. How many second rounders actually turn out to be more than a serviceable role player? Not many. Diamond in the rough. Needle in the haystack stuff. Odds are none of our 2nds would amount to much no matter who they were. What if just one of them turns out to be a serviceable player, then maybe we did maximize our capital. They are just second rounders... no reason to get too high or too low in our feelings about it.
This is such a bad mentality to have as a franchise. It's almost yearly now that there's 1 or even 2 guys in the 2nd round that end up making a real impact from the 2nd round. They aren't "throwaway pick". It's assets and a chance to find a huge boost to your team you weren't expecting for a bargain price.

And its not just the 2nd round picks. Vlade was asked if he shopped around the cap space at all or looked to make trades. He basically said they didn't look at anything and stuck to their plan and were happy with their plan.
 
Is it possible they could sign a couple SF’s? Sure....

But given:
1) no player drafted higher than 36 worked out for the Kings.

2) Vlade’s inability to sign anyone of note last year under much less competition

It would be nice to have some contingency plans heading into free agency.
Anyone of note? If we’re worried about backup SF, I’d say Bjelica and Yogi meet standards of signings of note.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
We'll know in a year or two how the 2nd rounders compared to other teams' 2nd rounders. If some teams that drafted after the Kings got legit players and the Kings didn't, it's a failure. If not, then it isn't.

Why is the 2nd round important, at least to me? It gives an indication of the homework that Vlade and his staff put into the draft, and therefore it gives an indication of what might happen in future drafts. For the foreseeable future, the Kings are probably not going to be in the top five slots of any upcoming draft. They are going to have to make a living selecting in the mid-1st round and lower. So far, with the possible exception of Giles and Bogs, the Kings have whiffed on players in that draft range. Now that Vlade and Peja have some experience under their belt, I hope they can find some gems in the mid to lower regions area of the draft. Other teams with quality management teams certainly do.