Willie Cauley-Stein is your newest Sacramento King

hrdboild said:
People said the same thing about Elfrid Payton and Nik Stauskas last year. Which one had the better rookie year?
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Comparisons like this are silly. Payton was not that good. He had the opportunity to have big games. Give Nik 30 MPG as a starter and he would have have big games too.
 
randymoss1881 said:
WCS will blow up 95% of the pick and rolls he's in. Not only that but we now have to rim protecters in the paint.
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More importantly, we now have someone other than Cousins who can protect the rim. Things fell apart on both ends of the floor when Cousins sat. Thompson showed some strides early last season as a man defender, but he could not hold down the fort defensively when Cousins was on the bench. Now, assuming Karl staggers the rotations effectively, the Kings should have a rim protector on the floor at all times. Hopefully, the defensive disaster that was the Kings minus Boogie improves.
 
People worried about the sickle cell thing are just being overtly obnoxious. Anyone can google the definition of it and be like "Oh man, why would we draft him if he has that???!?!"

None of us know his medical records. None of us know if its serious or something that just needs to be monitored. Considering we drafted him, I'm assuming he got the clean bill of health for a long career. That should be good enough for everyone
 
LPKingsFan said:
More importantly, we now have someone other than Cousins who can protect the rim. Things fell apart on both ends of the floor when Cousins sat. Thompson showed some strides early last season as a man defender, but he could not hold down the fort defensively when Cousins was on the bench. Now, assuming Karl staggers the rotations effectively, the Kings should have a rim protector on the floor at all times. Hopefully, the defensive disaster that was the Kings minus Boogie improves.
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This is where I think he will be next year. He's the backup center we were missing last year. It doesn't give you two rim protectors at the same time, just 48 minutes of rim protection. Maybe he blows it out of the water in training camp and starts instead of JT, but I really think he is there to solidify our bench and spell Cousins for 15 minutes a game next year.

Who knows, maybe Carl Landry can even find his game again when he's not being forced to play center.
 
Bricklayer said:
It should be noted that Mudiay COULD be what some say he will be. would not surprise me at all if he is better than WCS.

The problem is just how hard it is to know that, and the further restriction of our ability to gain that knowledge orchestrated by his agents. A bird in the hand...
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Whenever players go overseas like Mudiay it's very important that they hype themselves. Put your own clips up. Hire a guy to make a website and keep it packed with your highlights and game footage (if the network allows it). We knew almost nothing after his highschool playing days.
 
peacelate said:
You don't believe with professional help, his condition can be better managed? Is 20-25 minutes the ceiling for basketball players with the same condition?
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No.... It can be a problem if he's winded to the point where he's gasping for air. It might never be an issue in the NBA depending on how good of condition he's in. If he can play 48 minutes and not get winded at all then he would be able to play 48 mins. It's not something that's going to limit his PT as long as he has a conditioning coach that will work with him to get his stamina up to par.
 
The_Jamal said:
Comparisons like this are silly. Payton was not that good. He had the opportunity to have big games. Give Nik 30 MPG as a starter and he would have have big games too.
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I think you missed the point of my comment a little bit. I wasn't saying Elfrid Payton is a sure-fire All Star because he made the All Rookie first team or had a solid rookie season. I wasn't even saying that Payton will have a better career than Stauskas (though I believe that to be true...) I was saying the book on Payton pre-draft is that he was a talented player who was a long ways away from contributing and we should go with a sure-thing pick instead, ie the shooter we desperately needed. The justification from most for picking Stauskas over Payton was win-now and keep Cousins happy. Especially because Payton plays PG and we all know rookie PGs are always a disaster right? Right? What actually happened is that Payton had a better rookie season and already established himself as a starter, not just because he's on a crappy team with no other options, but because he's a nightly triple double threat who does enough good things (gifted playmaker, pest on defense, crashes the boards, gets to the basket) to make up for his shortcomings (awful shooter from everywhere on the floor). Stauskas meanwhile has a long ways to go to prove he deserves even 15 minutes per game off the bench at this point.

So the perception of what a "win-now" player is, to me, is deeply flawed to begin with. Mudiay could actually have a better rookie season than Cauley-Stein does. Nobody here knows! Given Mudiay's talent, I actually think it's more likely he excels right away than Cauley-Stein does. That Mudiay can physically match up with anybody at the position right now is another vote in his favor. Talent and physical profile are the two biggest factors in how well a player adapts to the NBA. Mudiay's "best case scenario" is winning rookie of the year and making every team that passed on him look like fools. Need I remind you, 2010 wasn't all that long ago. 4 PGs made the All-Rookie first team that year. All three of the leading vote-getters for ROY were PGs who started for their team as rookies. I once subscribed to the "you can't win with a rookie PG" philosophy too. I think it's outdated. It's been proven wrong already many times. You have to have talent around them, but a rookie PG isn't a liability if they're a legit talent.
 
hrdboild said:
I think you missed the point of my comment a little bit. I wasn't saying Elfrid Payton is a sure-fire All Star because he made the All Rookie first team or had a solid rookie season. I wasn't even saying that Payton will have a better career than Stauskas (though I believe that to be true...) I was saying the book on Payton pre-draft is that he was a talented player who was a long ways away from contributing and we should go with a sure-thing pick instead, ie the shooter we desperately needed. The justification from most for picking Stauskas over Payton was win-now and keep Cousins happy. Especially because Payton plays PG and we all know rookie PGs are always a disaster right? Right? What actually happened is that Payton had a better rookie season and already established himself as a starter, not just because he's on a crappy team with no other options, but because he's a nightly triple double threat who does enough good things (gifted playmaker, pest on defense, crashes the boards, gets to the basket) to make up for his shortcomings (awful shooter from everywhere on the floor). Stauskas meanwhile has a long ways to go to prove he deserves even 15 minutes per game off the bench at this point.

So the perception of what a "win-now" player is, to me, is deeply flawed to begin with. Mudiay could actually have a better rookie season than Cauley-Stein does. Nobody here knows! Given Mudiay's talent, I actually think it's more likely he excels right away than Cauley-Stein does. That Mudiay can physically match up with anybody at the position right now is another vote in his favor. Talent and physical profile are the two biggest factors in how well a player adapts to the NBA. Mudiay's "best case scenario" is winning rookie of the year and making every team that passed on him look like fools. Need I remind you, 2010 wasn't all that long ago. 4 PGs made the All-Rookie first team that year. All three of the leading vote-getters for ROY were PGs who started for their team as rookies. I once subscribed to the "you can't win with a rookie PG" philosophy too. I think it's outdated. It's been proven wrong already many times. You have to have talent around them, but a rookie PG isn't a liability if they're a legit talent.
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Again I disagree. Payton was good on defense, but he didn't start that way until he got a few months under his belt. And the guy was just a mess offensively the entire year. 20% TO rate is absurdly high, especially for a PG. The 33% ast rate is about average for a PG. 45% TS is laughable. the .307 FTR is excellent, but then we find out he shot 50% from the line.

He sticks in your mind because he had a few fantastic games last year. Its the MCW syndrome where you believe someone is a lot better than they actually are, because they got to be on the floor and control the ball.
 
The crazy part is DMC was one of the better rim protectors in the league statistically with his length, girth, quick feet and feel for the game. He is well on his way to being the same type of paint protector Tim Duncan and Marc Gasol are, not athletic freaks but with their smarts, timing and length, they get the job done. Adding WCS to the mix makes so much more versatile defensively. I don't expect they start together right away, but its something we will see more and more experimented with especially when we play teams like Memphis, San Antonio and the Clippers who have more traditional lineups.
 
jcwkings said:
The crazy part is DMC was one of the better rim protectors in the league statistically with his length, girth, quick feet and feel for the game. He is well on his way to being the same type of paint protector Tim Duncan and Marc Gasol are, not athletic freaks but with their smarts, timing and length, they get the job done. Adding WCS to the mix makes so much more versatile defensively. I don't expect they start together right away, but its something we will see more and more experimented with especially when we play teams like Memphis, San Antonio and the Clippers who have more traditional lineups.
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Not only that, but one would hope that WCS might help us avoid those catastrophic defensive falloffs everytime Cuz left the floor.
 
Chubbs said:
I asked someone else this too, do you actually think Vlade is saying to the world he didn't even bother looking at the videos any schmo on the Internet has access to?

You really believe that? That's the premise of this argument?
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It's up to Vlade to get the damned info, not to passively accept what is readily available. It may be *hard* to get the info, but that doesn't preclude him from getting it. This is the damned professional basketball association. The Kings have a multi-million dollar budget in order to scout players. You get the info by hook or crook - beg, borrow, steal. I don't care how you get it. You get it! You buy info from a scout, you hire a scout who has scouted him, you talk to Larry Brown and get all the contacts and info he has on the guy, you just do it. No matter how hard it is. This is a consensus top 10 pick in the NBA who you don't know about him before the draft begins? Does anybody sincerely think that SA and the Lakers and Miami don't have info on Mudiay? Seriously, what do you think the response would be from Pop when he asks his head scout: What can you tell me about Mudiay. Answer: I don't know about him. Good luck to that career (and maybe his lifespan). I guess people this board don't know much about doing research. I've had 30 years of experience in research, finding stuff out, and there is no question in my mind that with an ordinary NBA budget I could *know* about Mudiay. So why couldn't the Kings? Because it's just too hard?
 
Kingster said:
It's up to Vlade to get the damned info, not to passively accept what is readily available. It may be *hard* to get the info, but that doesn't preclude him from getting it. This is the damned professional basketball association. The Kings have a multi-million dollar budget in order to scout players. You get the info by hook or crook - beg, borrow, steal. I don't care how you get it. You get it! You buy info from a scout, you hire a scout who has scouted him, you talk to Larry Brown and get all the contacts and info he has on the guy, you just do it. No matter how hard it is. This is a consensus top 10 pick in the NBA who you don't know about him before the draft begins? Does anybody sincerely think that SA and the Lakers and Miami don't have info on Mudiay? Seriously, what do you think the response would be from Pop when he asks his head scout: What can you tell me about Mudiay. Answer: I don't know about him. Good luck to that career (and maybe his lifespan). I guess people this board don't know much about doing research. I've had 30 years of experience in research, finding stuff out, and there is no question in my mind that with an ordinary NBA budget I could *know* about Mudiay. So why couldn't the Kings? Because it's just too hard?
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You are missing the point. There is no information to get in addition to what Vlade already had. It's not like we can all of a sudden increase the amount of games he played in the CBA. The kid did well in high school and then went to the CBA, played 12 games, and got hurt. He played well in the CBA as well, but is 12 games really enough concrete information to make you draft him at #6, without a shadow of a doubt that he is the best that's left? No.

The information Vlade had was more than enough to gauge interest, as evidenced by Vlade asking him to come in for a workout and an interview, both of which were rejected. Rejected, by Mudiay and his team. Is he enough of a talent that you draft him regardless of his refusals? Vlade didn't seem to think so, and he also seemed put off by the fact that he wouldn't even interview, which is a completely reasonable request. I work in the medical field as a physical therapist and see many people a day. I use techniques supported by clinical evidence 100% of the time, but at times I have to make certain decisions, based on clinical judgment and expertise, that deviates from the path I prefer to use. Vlade did the same, he made a call, a professional decision based on tape and Mudiay shunning us. Why add a player that clearly doesn't want to be here in the first place? We have enough problems as is.
 
hrdboild said:
Of all people Brick, you're the last one I would expect to throw winning percentage at me as a qualifier of talent. :)

This was a pretty great rookie year by most people's standards. Kindof hit the wall there at the end, but what he did in March was really impressive.
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Not of talent. Of effectiveness and winning, which we need to do RIGHT NOW.

Drafting a "talent" who will be ready to win in 3 years does absolutely nothing for us. Our window already appeared incredibly short when I first started warning it was shrinking. After the events of the last week I would say its shrunken so far it might not even be a full season anymore. Be ready to win from opening day this time or get the hell out of Sacramento before the mushroom cloud explodes over Natomas.
 
The_Jamal said:
People worried about the sickle cell thing are just being overtly obnoxious. Anyone can google the definition of it and be like "Oh man, why would we draft him if he has that???!?!"

None of us know his medical records. None of us know if its serious or something that just needs to be monitored. Considering we drafted him, I'm assuming he got the clean bill of health for a long career. That should be good enough for everyone
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Sickle cell trait, basically means he is the carrier of the disease, and does NOT have sickle cell anemia himself.

Now, his offspring may get the disease if he has kids.

So long as he stays hydrated, he should really not have any problems from being a carrier.

Also, I am pretty sure that a lot of other athletes have this trait too, but it has not been publicized.
 
Bricklayer said:
Embarass himself mostly.
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People are to hard on Nik, out of college Nik was a good a shooter as anyone in this draft is and he got good size and decent athleticism- you are selling him way to short. it's not like we reached for him (WCS was more of a reach compared to draft projections).

Payton is a nice player, but he is a PG that can't shoot at all, Rondo/Rubio level bad- and he is not a good finisher (less than 50% at the rim), and with all due respect he is not even close to the wizardry Rondo/Rubio can do with the ball in their hands.
He is a potentially good defensive player and if he works on his game he will be a decent PG, but that's his ceiling- poor man's Rondo (if Rondo tries on defense) in a league more and more about shooting that will not hesitate to leave you wide open and dare you to shoot.

5 years from now, best case scenario, I doubt he is an above average starter at PG.
 
ockingsfan said:
Sickle cell trait, basically means he is the carrier of the disease, and does NOT have sickle cell anemia himself.

Now, his offspring may get the disease if he has kids.

So long as he stays hydrated, he should really not have any problems from being a carrier.

Also, I am pretty sure that a lot of other athletes have this trait too, but it has not been publicized.
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Don't forget the plus side- he have a much lower chance of getting Malaria!!!

healthy carriers of Sickle cell trait are just fine- and if he would have been sick it should've affected his growth and strength... and a weak guy with growth problems isn't exactly what comes to mind when talking about a uber-athletic 7 footer.
 
hrdboild said:
I think you missed the point of my comment a little bit. I wasn't saying Elfrid Payton is a sure-fire All Star because he made the All Rookie first team or had a solid rookie season. I wasn't even saying that Payton will have a better career than Stauskas (though I believe that to be true...) I was saying the book on Payton pre-draft is that he was a talented player who was a long ways away from contributing and we should go with a sure-thing pick instead, ie the shooter we desperately needed. The justification from most for picking Stauskas over Payton was win-now and keep Cousins happy. Especially because Payton plays PG and we all know rookie PGs are always a disaster right? Right? What actually happened is that Payton had a better rookie season and already established himself as a starter, not just because he's on a crappy team with no other options, but because he's a nightly triple double threat who does enough good things (gifted playmaker, pest on defense, crashes the boards, gets to the basket) to make up for his shortcomings (awful shooter from everywhere on the floor). Stauskas meanwhile has a long ways to go to prove he deserves even 15 minutes per game off the bench at this point.

So the perception of what a "win-now" player is, to me, is deeply flawed to begin with. Mudiay could actually have a better rookie season than Cauley-Stein does. Nobody here knows! Given Mudiay's talent, I actually think it's more likely he excels right away than Cauley-Stein does. That Mudiay can physically match up with anybody at the position right now is another vote in his favor. Talent and physical profile are the two biggest factors in how well a player adapts to the NBA. Mudiay's "best case scenario" is winning rookie of the year and making every team that passed on him look like fools. Need I remind you, 2010 wasn't all that long ago. 4 PGs made the All-Rookie first team that year. All three of the leading vote-getters for ROY were PGs who started for their team as rookies. I once subscribed to the "you can't win with a rookie PG" philosophy too. I think it's outdated. It's been proven wrong already many times. You have to have talent around them, but a rookie PG isn't a liability if they're a legit talent.
Click to expand...

Tyreke Evans wasn't a liability, he won rookie of the year playing point guard,....but he's not a reliable shooter and we didn't win with him and Cousins. Mudiay is too similar to Evans, so it doesn't make sense.

WCS makes a lot of sense for this team, in more ways than one
 
Kingster said:
It's up to Vlade to get the damned info, not to passively accept what is readily available. It may be *hard* to get the info, but that doesn't preclude him from getting it. This is the damned professional basketball association. The Kings have a multi-million dollar budget in order to scout players. You get the info by hook or crook - beg, borrow, steal. I don't care how you get it. You get it! You buy info from a scout, you hire a scout who has scouted him, you talk to Larry Brown and get all the contacts and info he has on the guy, you just do it. No matter how hard it is. This is a consensus top 10 pick in the NBA who you don't know about him before the draft begins? Does anybody sincerely think that SA and the Lakers and Miami don't have info on Mudiay? Seriously, what do you think the response would be from Pop when he asks his head scout: What can you tell me about Mudiay. Answer: I don't know about him. Good luck to that career (and maybe his lifespan). I guess people this board don't know much about doing research. I've had 30 years of experience in research, finding stuff out, and there is no question in my mind that with an ordinary NBA budget I could *know* about Mudiay. So why couldn't the Kings? Because it's just too hard?
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hey-bud-whats.jpg


Doggie-Paparazzi-Whats-your-problem.jpg


55483220.jpg
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Tyreke Evans wasn't a liability, he won rookie of the year playing point guard,....but he's not a reliable shooter and we didn't win with him and Cousins. Mudiay is too similar to Evans, so it doesn't make sense.

WCS makes a lot of sense for this team, in more ways than one
Click to expand...

Not only that, but Tyreke was bullying a lot of smaller guards defensively too. His length and strength really made him a pest defensively. In what little I was able to see in Mudiay, I certainly did not see that myself.
 
Iced Espresso said:
Not only that, but Tyreke was bullying a lot of smaller guards defensively too. His length and strength really made him a pest defensively. In what little I was able to see in Mudiay, I certainly did not see that myself.
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Dosent have the handle or athletiscm of Evans either. The harrison twins were top 5 picks if they went to China too let's remember that. They also were allegedly great athletes.
 
Kingster said:
It's up to Vlade to get the damned info, not to passively accept what is readily available. It may be *hard* to get the info, but that doesn't preclude him from getting it. This is the damned professional basketball association. The Kings have a multi-million dollar budget in order to scout players. You get the info by hook or crook - beg, borrow, steal.
Click to expand...
Yes, maybe Vlade should have a black-ops hit squad who can touch down anywhere in the world in under 8 hours, break into private workouts unnoticed, film, eavesdrop with CIA spy equipment, and leave no traces behind that would tie the operation to us.
 
Gilles said:
Those falloffs coincided with Sessions/Mccallum, Stauskas and Williams appearing on the floor together.
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No, pretty much every bit of defense left with Cousins. When he was out with the illness the team went through the floor defensively.
 
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