Kingsfan23
All-Star
I saw Otto Porter dropping in another mock draft, I do think someone unexpected will be there.. However, I still think the staff likes McCollum.
Who is available as 6th-7th pick
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Shabazz916
Guest
maybe the scouts dnt see him as good as snell
Vlade4GM
All-Star
My point is, if we're just looking at frame and shooting ability, then Crabbe qualifies as much as Snell does.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That doesn't have anything to do with it as I understand it.
People here do not appear to have seen it and I can't speak to it, but the buzz from the scouts/front offices is that Snell is an amazing lockdown man defender. That's the reason for his apparent rise up to the mocks.
Hallama
Starter
His rebounding rate just scares the sh*t out of me. I don't buy his blaming the system at NM either. But if the Kings can get him late first (Jimmer), then I'm all-in for the experiment.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Fair enough, but it's amazing that we're just hearing this now when he has a three year college sample.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have no idea. I'm half afraid this is all a noveau "analytics" led blind leading the blind parade, with a report circulating that he only allowed 18.8% of his iso opponents to score last year, and everybody hearing that, turning off the gametape and going wow! What a great stat! We should take him!
jalfa
Starter
that's just really not how analytics work, though.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've listened to interviews till I'm sick of listening. From everything I've been able to gleen, D'Alessandro and Malone have certain things their looking for in a player. Those are, players that are students of the game. They study their opponents. They like to watch game film. Players that can shoot the ball, handle the ball, and pass the ball. Players that are coachable, and are willing to play a role. As Malone said, I want players that are serious about basketball.
Now obviously, some of the players you look at are going to be void, or weak in some of those areas. That may not eliminate them, but it probably moves them down the list. Remember, Malone said he wanted to change the culture of the team. Well you don't do that by bringing in more of the same. Basicly he's looking for very intelligent, unselfish, skilled, gym rats. Thats one of the reasons I love Victor Oladipo. Jaylen Rose and Bill Simmons have a show on NBA TV called the Job Interview, and they've been interviewing all the top players in the draft. I've seen several of them, and the best two, hands down, were Victor Oladipo, and McCollum, followed closely by Burke. Simmons said in a podcast he was impressed with Oladipo's intensity, even in the interview. He said it was strange. He was extremely nice and polite, but the entire time I felt he was figuring out how to kill me.
The thing is, when you draft a player like Oladipo or McCollum, and I'm sure there are many others, you know, that whatever their ceiling is, their going to reach it, because of their intense desire to be as good as they can be. Those are the kind of players I think the Kings are looking for. Maybe Snell impressed them in that same way. From what I know about him personally, is that he's a very laid back guy. Almost shy in appearance. I also know that without him, New Mexico wouldn't even have been as good as they were.
Now obviously, some of the players you look at are going to be void, or weak in some of those areas. That may not eliminate them, but it probably moves them down the list. Remember, Malone said he wanted to change the culture of the team. Well you don't do that by bringing in more of the same. Basicly he's looking for very intelligent, unselfish, skilled, gym rats. Thats one of the reasons I love Victor Oladipo. Jaylen Rose and Bill Simmons have a show on NBA TV called the Job Interview, and they've been interviewing all the top players in the draft. I've seen several of them, and the best two, hands down, were Victor Oladipo, and McCollum, followed closely by Burke. Simmons said in a podcast he was impressed with Oladipo's intensity, even in the interview. He said it was strange. He was extremely nice and polite, but the entire time I felt he was figuring out how to kill me.
The thing is, when you draft a player like Oladipo or McCollum, and I'm sure there are many others, you know, that whatever their ceiling is, their going to reach it, because of their intense desire to be as good as they can be. Those are the kind of players I think the Kings are looking for. Maybe Snell impressed them in that same way. From what I know about him personally, is that he's a very laid back guy. Almost shy in appearance. I also know that without him, New Mexico wouldn't even have been as good as they were.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
That doesn't explain the Hardaway love, an outside shooter, not necessarily a great defender. Nor does it explain the absence of Caldwell-Pope in workouts, who is known as a good defender. Frankly, I don't yet see a meaningful picture in the dots we've been given to work with.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Like you say, Oladipo fits the bill. McLemore probably just the opposite. I haven't heard anything about Porter with respect to these intangibles, but he certainly shows the intangibles on the floor. I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't have a fair amount of the attributes you describe. From the sound of it, McCollum probably fits the bill (At least he interviews well).
By the way, this is exactly the type of approach that I've been advocating. I'm sick of the immature brain-dead element of this team and I couldn't be happier that they are weighing these intangibles heavily in their talent evaluation. And if they are intent on that approach you have to ask the following question: What exactly does that portend for the current personnel of this team?
PS I want the theme of this draft to be: Don't Settle. If they really like Oladipo or Porter and they are meh on all others, then I hope they aggressively try to trade up to go get one of them.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
A couple of things. First, lets remember they got to the party late. So they've had less time to look at players, or perhaps set up workouts. It's virtually impossible to see every player out there that you'd like to see. Secondly, remember that Bratz and D'Alessandro have already scouted most of the players that they would be interested in. Most of what you learn about a player in a workout is in the interview process, and perhaps how they take coaching. You already know if they can shoot or not. Maybe there's one thing you might want a second opinion on, like bringing Kabongo in to pressure McCollum to see if his ballhandling is what you thought it was.
By the way, not sure why you believe Hardaway Jr. isn't a good defender. Personally, I think he was one of the best defenders on the Michigan team. He's no Victor Oladipo, but I thought he was fine.
By the way, if I had the first pick in this draft, I'd choose Victor Oladipo and go home.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
By the way, a little story Bill Simmons told about Oladipo. He said he had Hardaway Jr. in on the show, and asked him, since he had guarded both McLemore and Oladipo, who was the hardest to guard. Hardaway Jr. said, definitely Oladipo. He said Oladipo never stops moving. And if you lose track of him, he's wide open for a three, or he's standing under the basket wide open for dunk. He said he was wore out after the game just from chasing Oladipo around. He said for the most part, McLemore just set up in the corner, or out on the perimeter and waited for the ball, so he was very easy to guard. Quite a difference between the two players.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Glad it will be over tomorrow.. I love dissecting the draft, but after awhile its like waiting for Christmas - you just want it to come and see what you get already.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Dime Dropper
All-Star
jcwkings
All-Star
I would love Oladipo, but i don't see him falling. I think we will get McCollum, high character, ready to play, student of the game, high b ball IQ I think McCollum and Tyreke make a great tandem in the backourt and they are both similar ages. Both are long, and can become a steals nightmare for backcourts. Mc Collum is and will develop into a very good 3pt shooter, most importantly they can share ball handling duties like we saw Tyreke do with Beno. He also has a chip on his shoulder and I think playing in a smaller school plays to his advantage. He lit up Duke a couple of years ago with a bunch of scrubs on his team, now he will be playing with guys better than him, i think labeling him a chucker is not right considering he absolutely HAD to score in college for his team, like Steph Curry.
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Steph Curry averaged 28 points, 5.6 assists, and 3.7 TO per game his last year in college. CJ McCollum averaged 24 points, 2.9 assists and 2.7 TO. No doubt they can both score the ball but the numbers say McCollum isn't close to Curry as a playmaker. And this is mostly just a style-of-play preference for me but the more I see of McCollum's game footage the less I like him as a prospect. Highlight reels are supposed to make you like a player by showing them at their best. Here's 14 minutes of McCollum shooting pull up jumpers on the break, using screens to get his shot off, taking long jumpers early in the clock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IgVnleed4
It's everything that drove me crazy about IT, Jimmer, Brooks, and Thornton last year all over again. And most of his finishes in the lane here get blocked in the NBA. You know what I didn't see in that video? Any evidence of team basketball.
This is probably one of those situations when I haven't really seen enough game tape and should keep my mouth shut, but I really only bring it up because it's a question of basketball philosophy for me. I know there's a big push for individual talent this time of year -- multi-dimensional scorers, guys who dominated their competition at this level. But I think basketball is a game for big guys. It's supposed to be played from the inside out, not the other way around. What I want out of my guards is that they get in the face of their matchup and make their life difficult. They need to move off the ball and punish the other team for sagging their defense into the paint. If you've got one guy who can break down the defense individually, that's great. Two is already a crowd, three is a potential disaster. We see this all the time in college where the good big guys are few and far between. The game devolves into an unwatchable series of perimeter passes and ugly jumpshots.
The reason I'm willing to take a chance on a guy like Michael Carter Williams is because I get a sense when I watch him play that he's going to make his teammates better because he's always got his head up looking for the open man. His inability to score is a problem when he's the most talented player on the team. The flip side is that he's not going to take shots away from more talented scorers because he knows that's not his role. I have no doubt that McCollum is a savvy player who's willing to make adjustments to succeed in the NBA. But all I can go by is what I see. His coach may have told him he's the entire offense and he needs to be primarily a finisher, but it makes me nervous for a team which is looking for everything else to roll the dice with a guy who's built his career thus far on that finishing ability. It's like I said with Jimmer ... he may not have been asked to play defense, but if the tape shows he's a consistently poor defender in-game, that has to weigh heavily on your evaluation regardless of what the off-court circumstances may be. That's how I feel about it anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IgVnleed4
It's everything that drove me crazy about IT, Jimmer, Brooks, and Thornton last year all over again. And most of his finishes in the lane here get blocked in the NBA. You know what I didn't see in that video? Any evidence of team basketball.
This is probably one of those situations when I haven't really seen enough game tape and should keep my mouth shut, but I really only bring it up because it's a question of basketball philosophy for me. I know there's a big push for individual talent this time of year -- multi-dimensional scorers, guys who dominated their competition at this level. But I think basketball is a game for big guys. It's supposed to be played from the inside out, not the other way around. What I want out of my guards is that they get in the face of their matchup and make their life difficult. They need to move off the ball and punish the other team for sagging their defense into the paint. If you've got one guy who can break down the defense individually, that's great. Two is already a crowd, three is a potential disaster. We see this all the time in college where the good big guys are few and far between. The game devolves into an unwatchable series of perimeter passes and ugly jumpshots.
The reason I'm willing to take a chance on a guy like Michael Carter Williams is because I get a sense when I watch him play that he's going to make his teammates better because he's always got his head up looking for the open man. His inability to score is a problem when he's the most talented player on the team. The flip side is that he's not going to take shots away from more talented scorers because he knows that's not his role. I have no doubt that McCollum is a savvy player who's willing to make adjustments to succeed in the NBA. But all I can go by is what I see. His coach may have told him he's the entire offense and he needs to be primarily a finisher, but it makes me nervous for a team which is looking for everything else to roll the dice with a guy who's built his career thus far on that finishing ability. It's like I said with Jimmer ... he may not have been asked to play defense, but if the tape shows he's a consistently poor defender in-game, that has to weigh heavily on your evaluation regardless of what the off-court circumstances may be. That's how I feel about it anyway.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
Considering he went from PG to SG (after playing PG all his life) for the team, I would say he is comfortable adjusting to whatever a team wants him to do. that would also explain his lack of assist, too. Knowing how well the kid understands the game, he surely would realize what's best for the team, and I think he would do whatever a coach tells him to, and without complaints. And I think Coach Malone brought McCollum back because he had a great interview, which could man McCollum is getting with Malone's philosophy of how the team will be run. I really believe McCollum could be a solid NBA starter and have a 10-year career with the Kings. I actually think McCollum and Evans will become a great backcourt, complementing each other well.
But hey, if we take him and he becomes a bust, I'll take all the dishing out you guys give me.
But hey, if we take him and he becomes a bust, I'll take all the dishing out you guys give me.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
McCollum doesn't need to be a playmaker. Curry is a better playmaker and he needs to be, his back court mate is Klay Thompson!
McCollum and Evans are going to get you at the very least the same amount of playmaking as the GSW combo. Most of us want the ball in Evan's hands more, assuming he's here. McCollum is a guy that has enough playmaking to compliment Evans, the shooting to spread the floor for Evans, and the handle to help take the pressure off Evans. At least that is the hope, and personally I am someone who believes he will do these things for us.
McCollum and Evans are going to get you at the very least the same amount of playmaking as the GSW combo. Most of us want the ball in Evan's hands more, assuming he's here. McCollum is a guy that has enough playmaking to compliment Evans, the shooting to spread the floor for Evans, and the handle to help take the pressure off Evans. At least that is the hope, and personally I am someone who believes he will do these things for us.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Much closer to Camby IMO, even right down to the injuryproneness.
And not only do you not know who's going where, you don't know who's picking where either. Both the #1 and #2 are said to be in play, although for the #1 the Cavs seem to be seeking an established star.
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roasthawg
Starter
You mean Thornton and the #7 isn't gonna be enough?!?
Considering he went from PG to SG (after playing PG all his life) for the team, I would say he is comfortable adjusting to whatever a team wants him to do. that would also explain his lack of assist, too. Knowing how well the kid understands the game, he surely would realize what's best for the team, and I think he would do whatever a coach tells him to, and without complaints. And I think Coach Malone brought McCollum back because he had a great interview, which could man McCollum is getting with Malone's philosophy of how the team will be run. I really believe McCollum could be a solid NBA starter and have a 10-year career with the Kings. I actually think McCollum and Evans will become a great backcourt, complementing each other well.
But hey, if we take him and he becomes a bust, I'll take all the dishing out you guys give me.
It's all good. We have similar disagreements around here every year. If McCollum is indeed our guy then I've got to trust that Coach Malone and Pete and staff saw enough to convince them he's the right player for us. I'm just exceedingly happy to be having this discussion at all instead of wallowing in a post-NBA "I hate the world" funk.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
I wouldn't want to pick a 6'3 guard with the 7th pick if I didn't think he was capable of being a playmaker if called upon to do so. Who knows who McCollum will be playing with. He might be on the 2nd unit. Reke might be gone. the only way I will look the other way if CJ is drafted is if I believe the staff does believe he has innate point guard skills (pg in high school, aau etc.)
macadocious
Starter
I am pretty convinced this is the way we are going, and, I'm ok with it.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
gonna be pissed if we take him and steven adams blows up.
KingsCitizen
Starter
I am pretty convinced this is the way we are going, and, I'm ok with it.
Seems like a perfect fit and a win now approach is the choice by our staff.
I support this pick!
But we should make moves to clear the backcourt clog ASAP, either by getting another first round pick for IT or Jimmer or some other trades.
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