What's Petrie Waiting For?

Then again, my primary motivation is that I just can't stand to see the final piece of the Webber deal get bought out and watch the Kings get nothing for it. And to make matters worse, KFT would probably sign with a contending team and end up in the playoffs next season.

We already got nothing for Webber. Keeping KT around just extends the agony. Buy him out and it's finally over and done and we can just move forward. It's been 2 1/2 years. I think that's long enough on life support for a deal that was dead the moment it was announced anyway.
 
It seems that most everyone here loves ripping on K9 on a daily basis. I guess TDOS is particularly boring around here this summer, so why not just make insulting K9 a sport.

I hope that you guys realize that K9 may be our best rebounder if that matters at all. He also hustles his ars off when on the court....probably the second top hustler on the team second to Artest. He was asked not to look to score much last year, so he took far fewer shots. One of my favorite K9 moments came a couple of years ago when he made Luke Walton look like a joke (which he may be) in an OT win against the Lakers.

Yes, he is probably overpaid. He probably should be giving his agent a higher percentage for scoring his contract. But I am not mad at K9 for his contract and I appreciate his hustle on the court.

More than any of that though, he is a King (and will probably remain so) so I cheer my butt off for him.
 
For whatever reasons, Kenny never connected with the fans nor them with him, so there's no need for the lecture on "insulting K9"...
 
For whatever reasons, Kenny never connected with the fans nor them with him, so there's no need for the lecture on "insulting K9"...


I am a fan. Please do not speak for me. Thanks.

Furthermore, I was not lecturing. I was simply standing-up for the guy and what I feel that he does well. As hard as the dude plays, he certainly deserves more respect that he receives.
 
Please forgive me. My comment should have read:

For whatever reasons, Kenny never connected with the MAJORITY of fans nor them with him.

Mea culpa.
 
You give him 3-4 years to grow into his frame from a strength perspective, gain experience and hone the vast skillset that he already has, I think the Kings perhaps drafted the #3 or #4 player in the draft when things are all said and done. He's that good.

not to turn this into a hawes debate, but that puts him RIGHT under oden/durant. if youre saying this, then youre also saying that he will be better than horford, conley, brewer, yi, wright, etc. i dont see it happening.

also, in terms of athleticism, he is lacking. for this argument to hold true (which i would be all for), he would nto only have to be better, but i think that he would have to be heads and shoulders above all of these draftees. why?

the nba is currently on a love affair with small ball, or rather having 2 athletic power forwards instead of a traditional lumbering large center. hawes will have to contend with THAT as well in order to keep himself on the floor. he will have to not only play for his spot, but he would have to play for what type of player he is.
 
not to turn this into a hawes debate, but that puts him RIGHT under oden/durant. if youre saying this, then youre also saying that he will be better than horford, conley, brewer, yi, wright, etc. i dont see it happening.

also, in terms of athleticism, he is lacking. for this argument to hold true (which i would be all for), he would nto only have to be better, but i think that he would have to be heads and shoulders above all of these draftees. why?

the nba is currently on a love affair with small ball, or rather having 2 athletic power forwards instead of a traditional lumbering large center. hawes will have to contend with THAT as well in order to keep himself on the floor. he will have to not only play for his spot, but he would have to play for what type of player he is.

He very well could be better...I think he's easily able to have the potential to be in that range...I truly beleive Oden/Durant/Horford could very well be better...however, one of them could bust...Conley could overachieve, heck Hawes may bust...but I very well could see Hawes in that 3-5 range of this draft, and I can see that being very realistic.
 
I am a fan. Please do not speak for me. Thanks.

Furthermore, I was not lecturing. I was simply standing-up for the guy and what I feel that he does well. As hard as the dude plays, he certainly deserves more respect that he receives.

I'm glad your a fan of his....but wait to hear his comments during training camp when or if he finds himself being left out of the rotation.
 
not to turn this into a hawes debate, but that puts him RIGHT under oden/durant. if youre saying this, then youre also saying that he will be better than horford, conley, brewer, yi, wright, etc. i dont see it happening.

I don't think he will surpass the Oden/Durant level. He could end up as good or better than Horford...we'll have to see. Conley is a different positioned player. Hard to compare but he could be better than this guy. I like Brewer alot but he's on the same level as Hawes ...just a different skill set. Just don't know what to think of Yi. Wright could bust or could blossom.
 
I'm glad your a fan of his....but wait to hear his comments during training camp when or if he finds himself being left out of the rotation.


If he does make a stink about this, I will be right in line to criticize as well. He did it 2 years ago and it was dumb.

Since that time, he has played hard and hustles - often more than others. He also accepted a lesser offensive role and drew some very tough defensive assignments due to our lack of size last year. Yet, I did not hear him complain.

He had a very poor season last year. But so did most of the team. I stand up for the guy because he plays hard. And yes, he has a expressionless face most of the time. But to be fair, he has the same face when he makes a good play. He does not beat his chest, or give high 5's or do a signature dance.

Given these factors, I do not agree with the continual insults he receives around here. It is more harsh than booing IMHO.
 
It seems that most everyone here loves ripping on K9 on a daily basis. I guess TDOS is particularly boring around here this summer, so why not just make insulting K9 a sport.

I hope that you guys realize that K9 may be our best rebounder if that matters at all. He also hustles his ars off when on the court....probably the second top hustler on the team second to Artest. He was asked not to look to score much last year, so he took far fewer shots. One of my favorite K9 moments came a couple of years ago when he made Luke Walton look like a joke (which he may be) in an OT win against the Lakers.

Yes, he is probably overpaid. He probably should be giving his agent a higher percentage for scoring his contract. But I am not mad at K9 for his contract and I appreciate his hustle on the court.

More than any of that though, he is a King (and will probably remain so) so I cheer my butt off for him.
He's dead weight on our roster. Serves no purpose, is overpaid for his "role", and has a bad attitude about the way he's been used since he became a King.

I'm not trying to insult or degrade him, but I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing a desire to see him leave town.

And, just to clarify, spiting KFT has nothing to do with it. I just don't see any reason to do what's fair.
 
Kenny can be effective, but like all things he has to be used correctly. Last year was horrible for him and everyone. He's undersized but fast and explosive. Given the opportunity he can be effective against slower PFs on offense and defense. He gave Duncan some trouble because Duncan tends to sweep the ball more often than not. The only thing I do not like about him is his jump hook that never goes in and his bad passing skills.
 
I'm not trying to insult or degrade him, but I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing a desire to see him leave town.

There is nothing wrong about being critical about his play, just like there is nothing wrong about being critical about anyone's play.

I just do not like the ugly insults about him (or any other member of the organization for that matter). Those types of insults should be saved for the Lakers IMHO.
 
Kenny's contiunued presence on this roster is more detrimental to the Kings franchise than anything the Lakers have done to us in 5 years. Loyalty to franchise. Players are just employees who come and go. I think people have become rather over-fascinated with getting rid of him at all costs, including even dumping real talent to move him. That's over the top. But he is still the primary anvil on a team full of them, and actively hurts this franchise on a daily basis. Makes him no friend to a friend of the franchise.

Real problem with him, and why he's so unmoveable, is that he is generally worhtless at this point. Nobody's starter, and the wrong game and attitude to be an effective bencher. Plays only one position (PF), can't swing big or small, and is small even for that position. Does only thing really well, and does not do that SO well that everything else can be overlooked. There are many lesser players round the league who nonetheless have a bigger role to play in the league. Far better to be nothing more than a quality, versatile, BIG bencher who can play the 4 and 5, stay out of the way on offense, and contribute, than to be the 35th best starter in a 30 team league.

P.S. The note about him remaining the team's only reboudner remains amazing. If anything, we mgiht have gotten WORSE in the offseason in our worst area, adding two new non-rebounding bigs who are likewly to shove the only rebounders we had int he first place, Kenny and Justin, even deeper into puragatory.
 
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You know, even if about half the debaters are right here, and you simply take last year's team, add Moore and Hawes to it, and add an unknown quantity to coach them, how in the world does that get them over 33 wins?

Even if, eventually, Theus turns into a pretty good coach, in his first year, he's going to have to deal with headstrong players, and he's going to make rookie mistakes. I expect that. I don't see how it can happen any other way.

I'm still concerned about Hawes, in spite of everything people are saying. His rebounding in college was terrible, and all of a sudden, he's going to bring in the shot-blocking, rebounding, defending monster this team sorely lacks? I doubt it. So what do you do, play Justin instead? Been there, done that.

This team needed a new engine, not new spark plug wires. That's what this summer has been so far: Summer of new wires.

Think about Theus, the player, too. What was his reputation? Pretty good scorer, terrible defender. It's not just the way he played, it's also in his personality. So we had last year's non-scrappy team, and Theus, a non-scrappy player, is suddenly going to make them a scrappy team?

Where's the logic in that?

I see pretty much all the same selfishness issues as last year, an unknown quantity at coach, and a lot of wishful thinking going on here. Exactly HOW, given the current roster, do you think this team will rebound, block shots, and, darnit, be tough this coming year? Having as little roster turnover as they had won't do it. Going to an unknown quantity at coach MIGHT do it, but given Theus's style of play, I'm not holding my breath that his coaching will be much different. That leaves only a couple things: That all these players return to their career years, or magic. Players rarely get it back. Miller won't have a year like he did in 2003 ever again. Oh, it can happen; I've seen it happen. Rarely. That's the problem. We're all hoping someone turns the clock back to 2002, and that ain't gonna happen.

Until the team loses a few players to expiring contracts and buyouts, I just don't expect much. Patience; I think that's the only thing we have left.
 
I'm still concerned about Hawes, in spite of everything people are saying. His rebounding in college was terrible, and all of a sudden, he's going to bring in the shot-blocking, rebounding, defending monster this team sorely lacks? I doubt it. So what do you do, play Justin instead? Been there, done that.

Agree with you on most of your points that wholesale, not incremental, changes were needed this summer.

But here, I don't follow. I think most people hope that Hawes will hold his own at center, providing some offense in the paint and hopefully not become a huge liability at defense and on the boards. Why can't Justin play NEXT to him at PF, providing the "shot-blocking, rebounding, defending monster this team sorely lacks" until we draft a better one next year.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the big man rotation needs to be Miller and Moore starting at center and PF, with Hawes and Williams their primary backups, respectively. Good mix of experience and youth, and finesse and athletism (not that Moore is the answer on the boards, either, but he's better than SAR or KT.)
 
You know, even if about half the debaters are right here, and you simply take last year's team, add Moore and Hawes to it, and add an unknown quantity to coach them, how in the world does that get them over 33 wins?

Well, one possibility is a change in the total chaos of substitutions done by the previous coach.

Even if, eventually, Theus turns into a pretty good coach, in his first year, he's going to have to deal with headstrong players, and he's going to make rookie mistakes. I expect that. I don't see how it can happen any other way.

From all reports floating around, the "headstrong" players are VERY GLAD to have Reggie as their coach and they're actually putting in quite a bit of effort even before training camp starts to get off on the right foot.

I'm still concerned about Hawes, in spite of everything people are saying. His rebounding in college was terrible, and all of a sudden, he's going to bring in the shot-blocking, rebounding, defending monster this team sorely lacks? I doubt it. So what do you do, play Justin instead? Been there, done that.

He only played ONE YEAR in college, remember? He was universally acknowledged by just about all the pundits to be a Top 10 draft pick AND a lot of them said he could easily be the sleeper pick of this year's draft. There has to be a reason.

Think about Theus, the player, too. What was his reputation? Pretty good scorer, terrible defender. It's not just the way he played, it's also in his personality. So we had last year's non-scrappy team, and Theus, a non-scrappy player, is suddenly going to make them a scrappy team?

Where's the logic in that?

Think about Theus the player? Why not think about Theus, the coach who took New Mexico State to March Madness?

I see pretty much all the same selfishness issues as last year, an unknown quantity at coach, and a lot of wishful thinking going on here.

I'd like to know what "selfishness issues" you're speaking of...

Until the team loses a few players to expiring contracts and buyouts, I just don't expect much. Patience; I think that's the only thing we have left.

No, there's also hope. And hope springs eternal in the hearts of a lot of Kings fans, even when logic would dictate something else. How do you think those of us who have been around since 1985 have managed to survive this long?

;)
 
Think about Theus, the player, too. What was his reputation? Pretty good scorer, terrible defender. It's not just the way he played, it's also in his personality. So we had last year's non-scrappy team, and Theus, a non-scrappy player, is suddenly going to make them a scrappy team?

I agree with VF21 in his comments and will only add this. Reggie Theus was a big-time scorer in the NBA not just "pretty good." As has been pointed out here before he's one of only 7 players in NBA history to have at least 19,000 pts and 6,000 assists, plus twice an All-Star. I would not say he was a "terrible defender," but clearly not a lock-down his man every night like an Artest or Christie. Theus certainly seemed like a scrappy player to me the night at Arco Arena I saw him slam head first into the goal under the basket and break his nose in making an all out effort on the defensive end. He'll demand defensive effort of these Kings, knows how to teach it like he did a NMSU, and if they show scrappy play more often than last year - fans will have every reason to cheer the roof off! GO KINGS!!
 
GP isn't waiting for anything. We don't have any parts that others are beating down the door to get. Nor is there anyone out there that will make any kind of impact on the team as it now stands. As I have said many time on this blog, if new coach T can get Ron Ron to play his dominant defender role, take on/shut down the other team main scorer, score 10-15 points and get some offensive rebounds then the younger guys and Bibbs can concentrate on bringing the ball up and getting things started. Ron Ron in a role can be awesome!! But he took it personally when they began losing big time last year and tried to do what he is not all that good doing (being a 260 lb PG), then it went further downhill with a lot of help from Musselman.
 
You know, even if about half the debaters are right here, and you simply take last year's team, add Moore and Hawes to it, and add an unknown quantity to coach them, how in the world does that get them over 33 wins?

Even if, eventually, Theus turns into a pretty good coach, in his first year, he's going to have to deal with headstrong players, and he's going to make rookie mistakes. I expect that. I don't see how it can happen any other way.

I'm still concerned about Hawes, in spite of everything people are saying. His rebounding in college was terrible, and all of a sudden, he's going to bring in the shot-blocking, rebounding, defending monster this team sorely lacks? I doubt it. So what do you do, play Justin instead? Been there, done that.

This team needed a new engine, not new spark plug wires. That's what this summer has been so far: Summer of new wires.

Think about Theus, the player, too. What was his reputation? Pretty good scorer, terrible defender. It's not just the way he played, it's also in his personality. So we had last year's non-scrappy team, and Theus, a non-scrappy player, is suddenly going to make them a scrappy team?

Where's the logic in that?

I see pretty much all the same selfishness issues as last year, an unknown quantity at coach, and a lot of wishful thinking going on here. Exactly HOW, given the current roster, do you think this team will rebound, block shots, and, darnit, be tough this coming year? Having as little roster turnover as they had won't do it. Going to an unknown quantity at coach MIGHT do it, but given Theus's style of play, I'm not holding my breath that his coaching will be much different. That leaves only a couple things: That all these players return to their career years, or magic. Players rarely get it back. Miller won't have a year like he did in 2003 ever again. Oh, it can happen; I've seen it happen. Rarely. That's the problem. We're all hoping someone turns the clock back to 2002, and that ain't gonna happen.

Until the team loses a few players to expiring contracts and buyouts, I just don't expect much. Patience; I think that's the only thing we have left.

I think your analysis is pretty realistic. Theus is going to inherit a lot of problems. Other than the $$$ he is going to make, I wouldn't trade places with the guy. Also, he doesn't have an "ol vet" coach to fall back on if things start spiralling downward. Not good. If he can take this assemblage of players and make them into a team, more power to him. I repeat: if he gets 40 wins he should be Coach of the Year. It's going to be very interesting watching Theus.

Regarding Hawes, he's not going to be a defensive presence or a great rebounder. Eventually, I think he's going to be a great scorer, low post and high post. He's not THE answer, he's just one answer to the lack of low post scoring on this team. Like you say, lots and lots of patience...........
 
From all reports floating around, the "headstrong" players are VERY GLAD to have Reggie as their coach and they're actually putting in quite a bit of effort even before training camp starts to get off on the right foot.

VF, you're killing me.:D It's obviously one thing for a player to say he's going to support the new coach; an entirely different thing to do it, especially when that coach calls on you to do such untenable things such as as sacrifice for the team, play fewer minutes, play D or don't play, or in general to do things that you're not comfortable doing. We'll see how the Thomas, SAR, Bibby and Artest respond when the rubber meets the road. Maybe Riles could handle this bunch, but the expectation seems very high for a guy who coached a couple of years in college, never assisted in the NBA, much less coached as a head coach in the NBA. And, he doesn't have an experienced vet coach on the roster. Whewwwwwweeeeeeeeeee! That's a big mountain to climb.
 
Believe what you wish. I'll believe what I wish. We'll see which, if either, turns out to be true. I know what I'm basing my opinion on, and it's not "a player saying he's going to support the new coach."

Peace.
 
Kingster+Arena Skeptic=combo:eek:

The world would explode if you two entered the same room due to all the negativity:o

It depends how you look at. If Theus gets 30-35 wins I won't be one calling for his head like some others who have very high expectations about him. Why? Because I don't think the team is very good. Also, I don't think my views are negative about Hawes at all. I'm just negative about the talent and chemistry of this team, and, if they collectively prove me wrong, GREAT.
 
...how in the world does that get them over 33 wins?

You say that like it was a bad thing. We seriously need a new PG, and the way it's been looking on the personnel front, we're only going to get one in the draft. So bring it on! It'd be a whole lot better than winning 39.
 
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