Trade for Sabonis?

[Tetsujin]

With the Shams bomb that the Pacers might be looking at blowing it up for a rebuild, Kings fans already falling over themselves to come up with deals to acquire the 25 year old son of the former Vlade arch rival.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1468281129459499023

People are suggesting a Fox for Sabonis swap/trade but I think the more prudent win now trade would be trying to pair the two, which would mean trading picks and Haliburton/Davion/both and salary filler for him. Pairing Haliburton and Sabonis is pretty much just a rehash of the Sabonis/Brogdan Pacers that have struggled over the last couple of seasons where a Fox/Sabonis pairing is probably a little closer to the Pacers pre-Dipo blowing out his leg and requesting a trade.

Theoretically, you could package Bagley and Tristan's salaries with a bunch of picks and get a trade done salary-wise but I doubt the Pacers accept that.

Dream scenario (Kevin Pritchard hits his head and forgets how to GM and accepts a Bagley/Tristan/Picks package)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Metu/Woodard
Moe/TD/King
Tyrese/Buddy/Ramsey
Fox/Davion

We'd still be weak at the wings (what else is new?) but you could then potential swing Holmes and/or one of our guards for a wing or draft assets to recoup some of the losses in a trade.

More realistic non-Fox scenario (Tyrese/Davion/Bagley's expiring/picks for Sabonis)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/TT/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Metu/Woodard
Moe/TD/King
Buddy/Ramsey
Fox/(Free agent acquisition or secondary trade)

Still shallow on the wings and stupidly deep at center but you'd have a clear starting five (that would probably still be toast on defense) and Holmes off the bench as a destructive energy big. The trade a big or two for wing depth thing applies here as well.

Trade Fox for Sabonis scenario (You can't trade Fox for Sabonis alone because he's making 10 million dollars more than him this season LOL so Fox + minimal draft assets for Sabonis and Justin Holiday)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/TT/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Bagley/Metu/Woodard (probably a waiver casualty to fit Holliday on the roster)
Holiday/Moe/King
Buddy/TD/Ramsey
Tyrese/Davion
This would be a solidly balanced team although we'd still be stuck with a bajillion centers. Theoretically you could trade Holmes for another go-to scorer type to make a run for the playoffs or keep him as a bench guy. But you'd have depth at every position if not necessarily a top line option outside of Domas. This team's ceiling would be dictated by whether one of Tyrese or Davion can develop into an on-ball iso scorer at a certain point.

I'm not really advocating for any of these choices (although getting Sabonis for pennies on the dollar -option A) would be sweet but present these more as a way to get the conversation started. Waiting until December 15th unleashes all sorts of different options to play with (people signed this offseason become tradeable) but for now here are some (dumbly put together as I procrastinate on work stuff) options.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I am curious what Indiana does if anything. Are we talking a whole tear down of the team? If they move just Sabonis, where does that leave them? Their two best players are at PF and PG. If they trade Sabonas, they would look to get a wing? What wing is available that brings as much value as Domontas? Would Atlanta trade Collins and Reddish? Orlando for Isaac, Anthony and their first round pick? As far as the Kings, you could make an argument for a Fox/DS trade but I don't know how that makes Indiana better considering they already have guards.

 

[Tetsujin]

I am curious what Indiana does if anything. Are we talking a whole tear down of the team? If they move just Sabonis, where does that leave them? Their two best players are at PF and PG. If they trade Sabonas, they would look to get a wing? What wing is available that brings as much value as Domontas? Would Atlanta trade Collins and Reddish? Orlando for Isaac, Anthony and their first round pick? As far as the Kings, you could make an argument for a Fox/DS trade but I don't know how that makes Indiana better considering they already have guards.

I guess the argument is that they'd be getting younger by trading Sabonis for Fox but Fox is only like a year younger than Domatas and on a bigger contract to boot. A Sabonis trade would presumably be part of a full on tear down but at the same time they can't trade Brogdan as part of the extension they signed him to as an apology for trying to ship him out for Ben Simmons and it's hard to imagine Rick Carlisle being fully on board with being part of yet another rebuild having just been a part of one in Dallas for the better part of the last decade.

 

[Joshoua]

I don’t care what Indiana wants we better give it to them give them Fox he’s a playoff liability even if we did get there

 

[Joshoua]

Also if there in full rebuild we can keep Mr Overrated (Fox). Offer them Hali, Bagley, Mitchell, and multiple first round picks I’d even offer this years top 3 protected.

I’d still rather build around Sabonis and I don’t think Fox fits with his shooting troubles the guy averaged 20-12-7 he’s worth building around

 

[kb02]

With the Shams bomb that the Pacers might be looking at blowing it up for a rebuild, Kings fans already falling over themselves to come up with deals to acquire the 25 year old son of the former Vlade arch rival.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1468281129459499023

People are suggesting a Fox for Sabonis swap/trade but I think the more prudent win now trade would be trying to pair the two, which would mean trading picks and Haliburton/Davion/both and salary filler for him. Pairing Haliburton and Sabonis is pretty much just a rehash of the Sabonis/Brogdan Pacers that have struggled over the last couple of seasons where a Fox/Sabonis pairing is probably a little closer to the Pacers pre-Dipo blowing out his leg and requesting a trade.

Theoretically, you could package Bagley and Tristan's salaries with a bunch of picks and get a trade done salary-wise but I doubt the Pacers accept that.

Dream scenario (Kevin Pritchard hits his head and forgets how to GM and accepts a Bagley/Tristan/Picks package)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Metu/Woodard
Moe/TD/King
Tyrese/Buddy/Ramsey
Fox/Davion

We'd still be weak at the wings (what else is new?) but you could then potential swing Holmes and/or one of our guards for a wing or draft assets to recoup some of the losses in a trade.

More realistic non-Fox scenario (Tyrese/Davion/Bagley's expiring/picks for Sabonis)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/TT/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Metu/Woodard
Moe/TD/King
Buddy/Ramsey
Fox/(Free agent acquisition or secondary trade)

Still shallow on the wings and stupidly deep at center but you'd have a clear starting five (that would probably still be toast on defense) and Holmes off the bench as a destructive energy big. The trade a big or two for wing depth thing applies here as well.

Trade Fox for Sabonis scenario (You can't trade Fox for Sabonis alone because he's making 10 million dollars more than him this season LOL so Fox + minimal draft assets for Sabonis and Justin Holiday)
Sabonis/Holmes/Len/TT/Jones/Queta
Barnes/Bagley/Metu/Woodard (probably a waiver casualty to fit Holliday on the roster)
Holiday/Moe/King
Buddy/TD/Ramsey
Tyrese/Davion
This would be a solidly balanced team although we'd still be stuck with a bajillion centers. Theoretically you could trade Holmes for another go-to scorer type to make a run for the playoffs or keep him as a bench guy. But you'd have depth at every position if not necessarily a top line option outside of Domas. This team's ceiling would be dictated by whether one of Tyrese or Davion can develop into an on-ball iso scorer at a certain point.

I'm not really advocating for any of these choices (although getting Sabonis for pennies on the dollar -option A) would be sweet but present these more as a way to get the conversation started. Waiting until December 15th unleashes all sorts of different options to play with (people signed this offseason become tradeable) but for now here are some (dumbly put together as I procrastinate on work stuff) options.

Don't need a Sham bomb to know that the Pacers were the second most likely team to trade with the Kings after Philly. Turner and Sabonis is like Fox, Hali, and Mitchell. The trade, if there is one, will be Fox for Sabonis. Salary and fit. Sabonis will be a much better fit with Hali or MItchell than Fox and Sabonis.

 

[Tetsujin]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y42fdgw8

Here's your ****ty megatrade, you sick ****s.

 

[macadocious]

You get a new team, and you get a new team....

 

[kb02]

I prefer this trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4f4zew3

Plus the Kings send a 2022 first to Philly and a 2024 first to Indy to even things out.

PG: Mitchell
SG: Hali
SF: Ben
PF: Sabonis
C: Holmes

That starting lineup has two all stars. Two elite defenders. A young connector. And an offensive big, who's defense and rebounding becomes less of a concern next to two 6'10 dudes in Sabonis and Simmons.

Or move Holmes to the bench and run:

PG: Mitchell
SG: Hali
SF: Barnes
PF: Simmons
C: Sabonis

Playoff guaranteed. Chance for a deep run.

 

[ESP47]

I prefer any trade where the Kings fleece the other teams.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I prefer this trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4f4zew3

Plus the Kings send a 2022 first to Philly and a 2024 first to Indy to even things out.

PG: Mitchell
SG: Hali
SF: Ben
PF: Sabonis
C: Holmes

That starting lineup has two all stars. Two elite defenders. A young connector. And an offensive big, who's defense and rebounding becomes less of a concern next to two 6'10 dudes in Sabonis and Simmons.

As obviously stands out, that lineup is a poor three point shooting lineup and will have spacing problems. I'd probably swap TD into the starters and have Hali be the starting PG:

PG: Hali, Mitchell
SG: TD
SF: Simmons, Barnes
PF: Sabonis, Metu
C: Holmes

That's my standard 8-man rotation for that squad. I'd figure on Len/TT off the bench in the first half based on matchups, and probably Ramsey for a bit, but the second half, probably just those 8 unless somebody is cold or it's a blowout.

 

[Tetsujin]

As obviously stands out, that lineup is a poor three point shooting lineup and will have spacing problems. I'd probably swap TD into the starters and have Hali be the starting PG:

PG: Hali, Mitchell
SG: TD
SF: Simmons, Barnes
PF: Sabonis, Metu
C: Holmes

That's my standard 8-man rotation for that squad. I'd figure on Len/TT off the bench in the first half based on matchups, and probably Ramsey for a bit, but the second half, probably just those 8 unless somebody is cold or it's a blowout.

The inherent issue is that Sabonis has not shown the ability to work as a 4 at this point in his career (hence Indy trying to dump at least one of him or Turner), Sliding Sabonis to 5 and starting Barnes also helps the spacing for the team go from absolutely terrible with two non-shooters in Simmons and Holmes to tolerable.

 

[Kingster]

The inherent issue is that Sabonis has not shown the ability to work as a 4 at this point in his career (hence Indy trying to dump at least one of him or Turner), Sliding Sabonis to 5 and starting Barnes also helps the spacing for the team go from absolutely terrible with two non-shooters in Simmons and Holmes to tolerable.

That's news to me. Why is that?

 

[twslam07]

If you're building around Sabonis, you'd need to...

1. Play him at the 5
2. Surround him with shooters
3. Put a PF next to him who has length, can spread the floor, is a good rotator on defense, and is a good weakside shotblocker

I don't like the fit of Simmons with Sabonis (nor do I think it's realistic to think Fox & a 1st lands us both Sabonis & Simmons). I could see the following guys being decent fits at PF next to him (to name a few):

• PJ Washington
• Robert Covington
• Christian Wood
• Kristaps Porzingis
• John Collins
• Jerami Grant
• Kyle Anderson
• Aaron Gordon
• Patrick Williams
• OG Anunoby

 

[Tetsujin]

That's news to me. Why is that?

The second he gets out onto the perimeter, he’s burnt toast. He would have been a 4 a decade ago but with how the league has evolved he can’t defend modern forwards.

 

[Groovygreg]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y42fdgw8
View attachment 10777
Here's your ****ty megatrade, you sick ****s.

Welcome to Fantasy Island.

 

[Groovygreg]

I prefer this trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4f4zew3

Plus the Kings send a 2022 first to Philly and a 2024 first to Indy to even things out.

PG: Mitchell
SG: Hali
SF: Ben
PF: Sabonis
C: Holmes

That starting lineup has two all stars. Two elite defenders. A young connector. And an offensive big, who's defense and rebounding becomes less of a concern next to two 6'10 dudes in Sabonis and Simmons.

Or move Holmes to the bench and run:

PG: Mitchell
SG: Hali
SF: Barnes
PF: Simmons
C: Sabonis

Playoff guaranteed. Chance for a deep run.

California Dreamin’.

 

[kingsboi]

only trade for Sabonis if you go after another big name, otherwise it wouldn't get the Kings very far and they would have to gut their team only to be back to square one since rebuilding will not be an option

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1468324416635367428

Well if Marvin and a couple of picks (we'll say top-5 protected the first year and top-10 protected the second) is really all it takes (salary wise it would take throwing in TT's expiring too) count me the hell in!


Also Sabonis on the the Warriors would be fun as hell, lol

 

[jiimbob]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1468324416635367428

Well if Marvin and a couple of picks (we'll say top-5 protected the first year and top-10 protected the second) is really all it takes (salary wise it would take throwing in TT's expiring too) count me the hell in!


Also Sabonis on the the Warriors would be fun as hell, lol

Sounds good to me too. Question though, is Sabonis or Turner a good fit with Holmes? seeing I have never really figured out why they are a poor fit together.

 

[Tetsujin]

Sounds good to me too. Question though, is Sabonis or Turner a good fit with Holmes? seeing I have never really figured out why they are a poor fit together.

all three of the guys in question are all fives in the modern NBA. Holmes is the most switchable of the three and could probably play some spot minutes on defense at the four but the other two are pretty much exclusively fives at this point, which is what has led to the Pacers being in the predicament they're in. Turner/Sabonis works well enough on offense because Turner is a true floor spacing big. I guess you could find some success playing Sabonis/Holmes as a front court on offense if you ran the offense through Sabonis at the high elbow and utilized Holmes in the dunker slot in the low post but that's not a great use of Holmes's talents either (pick and roll monster). Sabonis's lack of plus lateral quickness on defense sort of forces him into the center slot but he also blocks shots at the same rate as a short point guard so he's not a traditional rim protector on that end either. Much like Tyrese, though, he'll use his BBIQ everyone in a while to read an offense and make a play though. Turner is one of the best shot blockers in the league but, like a lot of regular season defensive monster bigs, is pretty much chum the second teams start iso-ing onto him in space. He's also not a good rebounder for his size (Sabonis is one of the best rebounders in the league though).

Sabonis is having a really bad year under Rick Carlisle so you're trading for him with the idea that you're getting 20/12/7 Sabonis and not the 18/12/4 with terrible perimeter shooting splits Sabonis from this season.

 

[jiimbob]

all three of the guys in question are all fives in the modern NBA. Holmes is the most switchable of the three and could probably play some spot minutes on defense at the four but the other two are pretty much exclusively fives at this point, which is what has led to the Pacers being in the predicament they're in. Turner/Sabonis works well enough on offense because Turner is a true floor spacing big. I guess you could find some success playing Sabonis/Holmes as a front court on offense if you ran the offense through Sabonis at the high elbow and utilized Holmes in the dunker slot in the low post but that's not a great use of Holmes's talents either (pick and roll monster). Sabonis's lack of plus lateral quickness on defense sort of forces him into the center slot but he also blocks shots at the same rate as a short point guard so he's not a traditional rim protector on that end either. Much like Tyrese, though, he'll use his BBIQ everyone in a while to read an offense and make a play though. Turner is one of the best shot blockers in the league but, like a lot of regular season defensive monster bigs, is pretty much chum the second teams start iso-ing onto him in space. He's also not a good rebounder for his size (Sabonis is one of the best rebounders in the league though).

Sabonis is having a really bad year under Rick Carlisle so you're trading for him with the idea that you're getting 20/12/7 Sabonis and not the 18/12/4 with terrible perimeter shooting splits Sabonis from this season.

Thanks mate. As much as I’m enjoying Bagley’s recent positive showings and Buddy’s keeping quiet contribution recon Monte will be active moving both.
Always appreciate hearing the possibilities.

 

[The_Jamal]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1468324416635367428

Well if Marvin and a couple of picks (we'll say top-5 protected the first year and top-10 protected the second) is really all it takes (salary wise it would take throwing in TT's expiring too) count me the hell in!


Also Sabonis on the the Warriors would be fun as hell, lol

Sabonis high post while Steph and Klay run laps off-ball sounds extremely not fun to defend against. It'd be like what they ran with old Draymond, except Sabonis can actually score.

 

[Woot!]

Sabonis is having a really bad year under Rick Carlisle so you're trading for him with the idea that you're getting 20/12/7 Sabonis and not the 18/12/4 with terrible perimeter shooting splits Sabonis from this season.

Pls grain-of-salt this objection since admittedly I've only seen Sabonis a couple times this year, but, statistically, anyway, he is definitely not having a "really bad year." Minutes, usage, and FGA all a bit down compared to last year. But he's shooting better from the field and FT line, rebounding like a fiend, PER is up, win share/48 is up...

 

[kb02]

Pls grain-of-salt this objection since admittedly I've only seen Sabonis a couple times this year, but, statistically, anyway, he is definitely not having a "really bad year." Minutes, usage, and FGA all a bit down compared to last year. But he's shooting better from the field and FT line, rebounding big-time, rebounding like a fiend, PER is up, win share/48 is up...

Sabonis would be the best player on the Kings with or without Fox. It's not even close.

 

[kb02]

California Dreamin’.

One can dream. Might need to give up three firsts rather than two.

 

[Joshoua]

If we can get Sabonis for Bagley, Hali, and picks we need to ship Fox to another team to build around Sabonis

 

[Tetsujin]

If we can get Sabonis for Bagley, Hali, and picks we need to ship Fox to another team to build around Sabonis

Or, hear me out, the Kings can try having multiple good players at the same time for once.

 

[Tetsujin]

Pls grain-of-salt this objection since admittedly I've only seen Sabonis a couple times this year, but, statistically, anyway, he is definitely not having a "really bad year." Minutes, usage, and FGA all a bit down compared to last year. But he's shooting better from the field and FT line, rebounding big-time, rebounding like a fiend, PER is up, win share/48 is up...

I’ve watched at least ten Pacers games this season (admittedly most of the time they’d be on in the background while I worked and I’ve flipped to a different game at times because the Pacers have played some terrible games). He may be shooting better from the field but his perimeter shooting has taken a big dip (largely because Carlisle keeps using him like a big from the early 2000s before bigs shooting threes became a thing) and defensively he’s struggled as an under the basket defender and getting stuck on an island outside on defense.

Sabonis was really good under McMillan. His stats may have been at their best last season under Bjorkgren but he was sorta bad at times then too and this season he’s been great for stretches and merely meh at other times because Rick Carlisle hasn’t been a good coach for at least half a decade. At no point have I said Sabonis is a bad player (hell, I’m the one who started this thread!) but you’d have to be blind to think that what Carlisle’s been doing is helping Domatas’s career.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think I'd rather go for Turner. Whenever he's traded, I don't think it's more than like a young player+FRP (Bagley+FRP?) for him if they're just looking to ship off vets no matter what. Sabonis at a bare minimum will command Mitchell+2 FRP and you probably have to either base a deal around Fox or add Hali to the Mitchell package to get it done.