Wetsphal Says Nocioni will come off the bench.

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

http://twitter.com/Sam_amick
At least for now, Sam Amick says over twitter -

Westphal says Nocioni will likely return to a reserve role this season at SF and PF

This is a big step, in my opinion.

If Evans starts, you want Garcia in there to help him out on the ball handling side of things.

There is also the slight chance Greene, Casspi or Mason can sneak into the starting lineup. I would be shocked, but happy with Greene or Casspi in there.

One dark horse starting lineup I could see Westphal going with is a Beno - Evans - Kmart - JT - Hawes lineup. Im not a fan of this at all, but Kmart has been asked a lot lately if he thinks he can play the three with Evans at the two, so you never know.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

http://twitter.com/Sam_amick
At least for now, Sam Amick says over twitter -


This is a big step, in my opinion.

If Evans starts, you want Garcia in there to help him out on the ball handling side of things.

There is also the slight chance Greene, Casspi or Mason can sneak into the starting lineup. I would be shocked, but happy with Greene or Casspi in there.

One dark horse starting lineup I could see Westphal going with is a Beno - Evans - Kmart - JT - Hawes lineup. Im not a fan of this at all, but Kmart has been asked a lot lately if he thinks he can play the three with Evans at the two, so you never know.

I'm pretty sure it will be Evans, Kmart, Mason, JT and Hawes.

which is kinda scary because Mason cant hit the three.......

 

[=LarryLegend=]

I would love to see the bench mob of Sergio, Cisco, Donte, Nocioni and May.

 

[rainmaker]

I HATE the idea of Cisco starting, and don't really like the idea of Mason on this team if both Noc and Cisco are here. IMO, Cisco is way too streaky to be an nba starter, at age 29 he's done developing, and his best attribute being his versatility makes his role a 6th man the best option for this team.

I would rather see Noc start, because he has been a much more consistent shooter over his career, and doesn't force the action as much as Cisco. I like what I've heard about Mason so far, but I really don't want 5 sf's on this team. Honestly, if Noc doesn't start, I would rather replace him in the starting lineup with Donte or Omri. Do I think either is ready? No. But it will be better for the team and them as individuals to get thrown out there and take their lumps now instead of delaying their development further, and giving their playing time to a 29 or 31 yr old sf.

I really believe if Donte and Omri get considerable playing time this yr, they will be in the same position next yr as Spencer and JT are in now. If not, we're just delaying their development and the development of our young nucleus.

 

[fnordius]

I'm pretty sure it will be Evans, Kmart, Mason, JT and Hawes.

which is kinda scary because Mason cant hit the three.......

I REALLY cannot see Mason starting. He's the oldest option, not the best, and doesn't even have a guaranteed contract. I'll be speechless if he turns out to be our starting SF.

 

[bajaden]

I HATE the idea of Cisco starting, and don't really like the idea of Mason on this team if both Noc and Cisco are here. IMO, Cisco is way too streaky to be an nba starter, at age 29 he's done developing, and his best attribute being his versatility makes his role a 6th man the best option for this team.

I would rather see Noc start, because he has been a much more consistent shooter over his career, and doesn't force the action as much as Cisco. I like what I've heard about Mason so far, but I really don't want 5 sf's on this team. Honestly, if Noc doesn't start, I would rather replace him in the starting lineup with Donte or Omri. Do I think either is ready? No. But it will be better for the team and them as individuals to get thrown out there and take their lumps now instead of delaying their development further, and giving their playing time to a 29 or 31 yr old sf.

I really believe if Donte and Omri get considerable playing time this yr, they will be in the same position next yr as Spencer and JT are in now. If not, we're just delaying their development and the development of our young nucleus.

I suggest we just wait and see how it plays out before passing judgement. Mason is a very good defender and thats probably why he's here. He can also play the SG position, or defend the SG position. Donte may end up playing at the PF position more than the SF position. I don't think people are giving Cisco enough credt for correctiing a lot of the mistakes he made. Does he still make them? Sure, but not as frequently. He's a good ball handler for his position and can help distribute the ball. He may not be perfect, but he may be the best fit in the starting lineup for what Westphal is trying to do. We'll just have to wait and see..

 

[SacTownKid]

Hmmm...I'd rather see Noc start if for nothing more than to either maintain his trade value or actually gain more. I'd be shocked if Mason goes from unguaranteed contract to starter. I think Cisco is the guy, he played too well towards the end of last year.

 

[Bricklayer]

http://twitter.com/Sam_amick
At least for now, Sam Amick says over twitter -


This is a big step, in my opinion.

If Evans starts, you want Garcia in there to help him out on the ball handling side of things.

That would be the trick, and a solid strategic move. One of the real issues with Evans as a PG low on the create for others scale and with maybe some issues bringing it up, is that our starting OG is no help at all in either of those aspects. If Noc starts as well, then neither our OG nor our SF could help Reke out and he'd be out on an island out there as a rookie, having to do all the ballhandling and all the creating. Replace Noc with Cisco, and at least there is a little help. Of course it also means we are likely going to get pummeled on the glass again, as Cisco is a terrible rebounder at SF, but when you are a bad team, its always just a question of picking your poison, and Cisco starting probably plugs a bigger hole than it creates.

The other possibilities you mention = nightmares, and you should wash your mouth out with soap, or rather fingers given this is an internet forum.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I actually think this is a good move... We need our talent spread out through our entire team. Otherwise we would have an ok starting lineup and a garbage bench.. now we just have an average starting 5 and an average bench which works better in my opinion.

 

[kennadog]

I REALLY cannot see Mason starting. He's the oldest option, not the best, and doesn't even have a guaranteed contract. I'll be speechless if he turns out to be our starting SF.

At least that wouldn't preclude you from posting.

 

[Bricklayer]

I actually think this is a good move... We need our talent spread out through our entire team. Otherwise we would have an ok starting lineup and a garbage bench.. now we just have an average starting 5 and an average bench which works better in my opinion.

I don't know how large a talent gap their is between Noc and Cisco, just kind of different games. One is a SG/SF, the other a SF/PF, but they are both pretty much 6th men types who can fill in as low level starters. Its part of why I think this is an ok move strategically -- we're not so much moving guys out of their natural positons, replacing a superior player wiht an inferior one, as we are just swapping one 6th man type for another. That's really where both guys have spent most of their careers. We've just kind of got a roleplaying platoon at the position, so I'm looking at who starts or not really as a question of how they complement the other 4 guys out there.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

That would be the trick, and a solid strategic move. One of the real issues with Evans as a PG low on the create for others scale and with maybe some issues bringing it up, is that our starting OG is no help at all in either of those aspects. If Noc starts as well, then neither our OG nor our SF could help Reke out and he'd be out on an island out there as a rookie, having to do all the ballhandling and all the creating. Replace Noc with Cisco, and at least there is a little help. Of course it also means we are likely going to get pummeled on the glass again, as Cisco is a terrible rebounder at SF, but when you are a bad team, its always just a question of picking your poison, and Cisco starting probably plugs a bigger hole than it creates.

The other possibilities you mention = nightmares, and you should wash your mouth out with soap, or rather fingers given this is an internet forum.

To be fair, I DID say I didnt like the other options!

In fact, I hate Kmart at the three. For all he does on offense, he cant guard or rebound well at his true position. I dont even want to think about his defense and rebounding at the 3.

I think Garcia deserves a shot. Looking at his splits has put up some pretty good numbers as a starter, even though most of that was done as a shooting guard.

 

[Section 101]

That would be the trick, and a solid strategic move. One of the real issues with Evans as a PG low on the create for others scale and with maybe some issues bringing it up, is that our starting OG is no help at all in either of those aspects. If Noc starts as well, then neither our OG nor our SF could help Reke out and he'd be out on an island out there as a rookie, having to do all the ballhandling and all the creating. Replace Noc with Cisco, and at least there is a little help. Of course it also means we are likely going to get pummeled on the glass again, as Cisco is a terrible rebounder at SF, but when you are a bad team, its always just a question of picking your poison, and Cisco starting probably plugs a bigger hole than it creates.

The other possibilities you mention = nightmares, and you should wash your mouth out with soap, or rather fingers given this is an internet forum.

And is this from the realization from Summer League and practice that there might be an issue here?

 

[Kings Faithful]

I don't know how large a talent gap their is between Noc and Cisco, just kind of different games. One is a SG/SF, the other a SF/PF, but they are both pretty much 6th men types who can fill in as low level starters. Its part of why I think this is an ok move strategically -- we're not so much moving guys out of their natural positons, replacing a superior player wiht an inferior one, as we are just swapping one 6th man type for another. That's really where both guys have spent most of their careers. We've just kind of got a roleplaying platoon at the position, so I'm looking at who starts or not really as a question of how they complement the other 4 guys out there.

Thats assuming Garcia is the automatic starter if Nocioni isn't. I think we should experiment with Greene for a few games and if he is still too out of control try Omri... Omri might not put up stellar numbers but I don't think he would huck as many unnecessary shots as Greene. We could bring Noc of the bench in a Manu Ginobli type role, where he is obviously the better player but is more valuble contributing off the bench. And of course if we end up with a 0-10 record from expirimenting we can always go back to Noc starting.

 

[AriesMar27]

wow... nocioni isnt even starting.... and people actually got mad when i called some of the players on this team scrubtastic. garcia would be the obvious choice i guess. i dont think that greene will be able to start this soon. he hasnt even learned to play off the bench or actually played much at all.... same goes for omri, he's a rookie and shouldnt be asked to guard lebron, artest, carmello or any star sf in the nba.... we have better options, like garcia and nocioni...

which is kinda sad that those are our better options, its no wonder why nocioni isnt starting we are that bad of a team. it wont even make a difference. we should try to trade nocioni...

 

[Oprostaj]

And is this from the realization from Summer League and practice that there might be an issue here?

maybe by the fact that he never played full time PG on any level of basketball? carrying full time PG duties on an NBA team is hard for ANY rookie. Now put that responsibility on one that does not have hardcore PG experience and put him on a bad team while (as Brick is alluding to) forcing him to be the one and only ballcarrier will give you problems...

 

[TaxMan]

which is kinda sad that those are our better options, its no wonder why nocioni isnt starting we are that bad of a team. it wont even make a difference. we should try to trade nocioni...

hmmm...I've read this a few times and still can't figure out the logic here. We should try to trade noc because we're a bad team but he is good? Or Noc is so bad he can't start for us so we should trade him?

 

[Gary]

maybe by the fact that he never played full time PG on any level of basketball? carrying full time PG duties on an NBA team is hard for ANY rookie. Now put that responsibility on one that does not have hardcore PG experience and put him on a bad team while (as Brick is alluding to) forcing him to be the one and only ballcarrier will give you problems...

Yep.. That is why I think the Kings will be pretty sloppy out of the gates. The Kings will probably average more turnovers than assists as a team.

 

[AriesMar27]

hmmm...I've read this a few times and still can't figure out the logic here. We should try to trade noc because we're a bad team but he is good? Or Noc is so bad he can't start for us so we should trade him?

i meant to say that we should trade him because he isnt even good enough to be a starter on the worst team in the nba. he is just taking time away from greene and casspi. if he isnt good enough to start on this team how does he make the team better? he should be traded if possible but with the way that petrie makes trades we are probably stuck with nocioni until he is an expiring contract and then geoff will trade him for another garbage player with a 4 yr deal....

if we are going to suck then we should do it the right way and let the young players do it themselves... nocioni is 30 if he has any game left he should be on a better team that could use whatever skills that he may bring to the table. not rob a young player of minutes, he will be paid the same amount regardless of where he plays so i doubt he would care if we did move him. so we should do it asap.....

 

[Jechtsphere]

Noc certaintly would be our best option at the 3 but with him, garcia and the prospect of adding Mason it takes away from the guys who need to be playing and not sitting on the bench...Greene and Casspi.

I wish we could trade Noc and Garcia then I'd be fine with adding Mason, that being said I really do love Noc's game but our young guys getting time and getting better is at the top of the to do list.

 

[jcassio]

Garcia should definitely start at the 3, if only because he gives us a second ballhandler in the starting 5. The only way Martin can play the 3 is if he could switch with someone on the defensive end. Plus Martin guarding 3s would only increase the likelihood of him getting injured (which is already high enough).
But I'm not suggesting that Garcia is more valuable than Noc. In fact, I think they are of equal value, but they are different players. And Garcia's game (as a starter) will help Reke and, thus, the team.
The only reason I would even consider trading Noc is to give more PT to Casspi and Greene. But it's way too early to conclude that they won't be able to earn those minutes from Westphal if they put their energy into their defense. Fortunately both Casspi and Greene can play both forward positions.
I'm actually hoping Noc will get substantial minutes at the 3 and 4. We need his skills and his competitiveness, and it's not like he's an old veteran.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

And we also need Noc to help us possibly lure Ginobili here next year too!

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

yano what might not be a bad idea, starting Omri or Greene.

Our starting lineup is going to be one of the worst in the league, right?

but a bench of Udrih, Garcia, Nocioni, May, and Thompson ( starting PF, backup C ) has to be one of, if not the best bench in the league. That can be where we close the gap with some other teams. It might not be the best idea, but its something to think about.

 

[apollo916]

Tyreke, Martin, Nocioni,Thompson, Hawes should be the starting lineup, I dont know why they are quick to bench Andres. I also think May will work to take considerable minutes at the PF, thus alternating starts with Jason.

 

[Merdiesel]

I think Donte should start. Just to see if he can break out and show us what he can really do. What do we have to loose?

 

[Kingster]

That would be the trick, and a solid strategic move. One of the real issues with Evans as a PG low on the create for others scale and with maybe some issues bringing it up, is that our starting OG is no help at all in either of those aspects. If Noc starts as well, then neither our OG nor our SF could help Reke out and he'd be out on an island out there as a rookie, having to do all the ballhandling and all the creating. Replace Noc with Cisco, and at least there is a little help. Of course it also means we are likely going to get pummeled on the glass again, as Cisco is a terrible rebounder at SF, but when you are a bad team, its always just a question of picking your poison, and Cisco starting probably plugs a bigger hole than it creates.

I think Westphal figures that Reke is an above average rebounder at the pg, Cisco somewhat below average at the sf. So maybe it's a wash for rebounding. That doesn't mean we get better in the rebound department with that starting lineup over last year, just not worse.

 

[kennadog]

I think Donte should start. Just to see if he can break out and show us what he can really do. What do we have to loose?

Judging from the open practice, a lot. He looked completely lost. I like Donte. He's funny and seems like a genuinely nice guy. But he should not look so confused out there anymore.

 

[bajaden]

I think Donte should start. Just to see if he can break out and show us what he can really do. What do we have to loose?

A whole bunch of games! There is no way Donte should start. To be honest, I'm not sure he even deserves to be on the starting roster. The best place for him is probably in Reno playing on the DL team.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Mason should be the starting sf, give the starters some athleticism and open up the wings for Reke and Martin. I'm ready to trade Cisco after seeing how he has not improved any over the summer, decision making-wise

 

[AriesMar27]

A whole bunch of games! There is no way Donte should start. To be honest, I'm not sure he even deserves to be on the starting roster. The best place for him is probably in Reno playing on the DL team.

but when i suggest that greene should play in the nbdl this season i get attacked.... i honestly think that greene, casspi and possibly brockman should be playing in the nbdl this season to make sure that they get playing time to develop their games. with may, mason and ely on the team we can afford to let the younger players take their time even if its only for this season. it will help in the long run.