Tyreke Jumpshot

[Goo]

I would like to hear people's opinions on this too in regards to where they let Evans walk. Yours it 10mil, mine is 9.5mil.. I wonder where everyone else stands. Maybe we will see someone offering him 15mil?

The problem is you will not find a better "2 way player" than Reke under 10m. And you know that you need at least 1 good to great guard to win champion. So what do you do since we don't have one? Let Reke walk between 10-12m and HOPE you can find a good guard in FA or draft?

I said it before and I will say it again, for 10-12m you have to pay because there is no plan B if you want to win. Take a look at FA list, ONLY one player that is clearly better than Reke and that is CP3.

For Max sure let him walk, but for 10-12m you have to pay.

 

[Kingster]

I've stated it already. Offer 4 years @ $32 million then let him go find a better offer to bring back. Don't set the market yourself as Petrie did with Garcia. Let the market dictate the price. It could also depend on other FA's out there. For example, if you can sign Kevin Martin for 3 years $18 mil or Tony Allen around the same price then the higher higher Evans goes the more likely you let him walk.

It also depends on the draft. If they draft a SG that could mean Evans is more likely to walk.

I agree with this. I would not match over $10 million.

 

[Kingster]

So far everyone's prices have been decent. You could argue for 12mil and you could argue that 8mil is enough for him. But I agree that we should let other teams dictate Evans worth and then match based on that.

One constraining factor is the sign and trade rules. So if you don't match, you basically get nothing. That's why I'd go up to $10 mill even though I may think he's worth $8.5 million. At $10 million you'd be able to trade him down the line (I think). But if you go much higher then the contract starts to weigh down his trade value; other teams don't want to take his contract. So even if Kings management may not want him longer term, they still probably want to use him as a tradable asset.

 

[Npliam]

While it is a fair statement that the Kings haven't shown much improvement the past few years, I hardly think that you can put all the blame on Evans. I have always felt that BAD coaching can have a much bigger influence on wins/losses than great coaching. For instance, it would be much easier IMO to take a 41 win team (with no change) and make them win 27 games the next season than to get them to improve to 46 wins. There is not a doubt in my mind that the Kings could have won 35-40 games this past season with a good head coach. However, the Kings have only had bad or really bad coaches since the departure of Adelman. Now that doesn't take all the blame off the players, but a bad coach can do too many things to screw things up that players can't always overcome.

Westphal led a couple different teams to the playoffs.

 

[sdballer]

Westphal led a couple different teams to the playoffs.

Yes a couple teams full of nba all stars/hof's. After that he got ran out of the nba, sucked as a college coach and then had the same problems with the kings. It's unlikely he'll get another head coaching job soon. I think it's safe to include him in our list of bad coaches.

 

[VF21]

I've stated it already. Offer 4 years @ $32 million then let him go find a better offer to bring back. Don't set the market yourself as Petrie did with Garcia. Let the market dictate the price. It could also depend on other FA's out there. For example, if you can sign Kevin Martin for 3 years $18 mil or Tony Allen around the same price then the higher higher Evans goes the more likely you let him walk.

It also depends on the draft. If they draft a SG that could mean Evans is more likely to walk.

Exactly.

 

[ParniValjak]

I would go as high as $12-13 million with Tyreke because the bottom line is, I am not going to get a better player to replace him for any less than that. The talk of $8 or $9 million per year is a pipe dream. He will get more and we are certainly not a hot crash destination where we can afford to lose talent because we can just go out and sign someone else. It doesn't work like that if you are in Sacramento.

 

[Section 101]

I would go as high as $12-13 million with Tyreke because the bottom line is, I am not going to get a better player to replace him for any less than that. The talk of $8 or $9 million per year is a pipe dream. He will get more and we are certainly not a hot crash destination where we can afford to lose talent because we can just go out and sign someone else. It doesn't work like that if you are in Sacramento.

Where is he going to get more?

 

[AussieKing]

I would go as high as $12-13 million with Tyreke because the bottom line is, I am not going to get a better player to replace him for any less than that. The talk of $8 or $9 million per year is a pipe dream. He will get more and we are certainly not a hot crash destination where we can afford to lose talent because we can just go out and sign someone else. It doesn't work like that if you are in Sacramento.

I agree with you, i think $12-$13m is the upper limit. I just hope we don't have to go that high, ideally $10-$11m for 4yrs is what i think it will end up.

We can't afford to lose talent, with no return.

 

[sdballer]

Where is he going to get more?

From a team that understands his worth better than others

 

[Section 101]

From a team that understands his worth better than others

Name one?

hint: start with teams with cap space.

 

[ParniValjak]

Where is he going to get more?

Any team with some salary cap room in need of a SG. Pick one yourself! I could certainly see Dallas do it because they are not going to get Howard or CP3. Similarly with Atlanta. Phoenix is also after a SG.

There will be a few teams looking to free up cap space to make a run at some of the FAs. I think you will be one of those people that will be very surprised by the types of offer that Tyreke will get.

Look I would love to lock him in on a 5 year / $40 million deal because that would be EXCELLENT deal for us as a franchise. The type of deals we had with Peja and Bobby Jackson BUT I am a realist and that tells me, Tyreke WILL get a big offer form someone. Look at each free agency period for the last few years and you will see players getting huge offers. Could anyone see Eric Gordon getting the max? Could anyone see Batum getting the max? The answer is no!

 

[rainmaker]

Exactly.

You don't see a potential issue with lowballing Reke upfront and offering the same contract as his backup in MT who might be half the player Reke is?

Here's the issue I see with lowballing him and then telling him if you expect more, go talk to teams and see what you can get. First, it can be taken as insulting, that the Kings don't really want him that badly. Second, it tells him you value him as much as his backup. And third, it might lead he and his agent to simply sign the one year QO and walk as an UFA next year, where we have no say and he's free to go wherever he likes. And that's if it's even extended before free agency. If not, he's free to walk.

 

[Section 101]

Any team with some salary cap room in need of a SG. Pick one yourself! I could certainly see Dallas do it because they are not going to get Howard or CP3. Similarly with Atlanta. Phoenix is also after a SG.

There will be a few teams looking to free up cap space to make a run at some of the FAs. I think you will be one of those people that will be very surprised by the types of offer that Tyreke will get.

Look I would love to lock him in on a 5 year / $40 million deal because that would be EXCELLENT deal for us as a franchise. The type of deals we had with Peja and Bobby Jackson BUT I am a realist and that tells me, Tyreke WILL get a big offer form someone. Look at each free agency period for the last few years and you will see players getting huge offers. Could anyone see Eric Gordon getting the max? Could anyone see Batum getting the max? The answer is no!

The suns only have about $8.5 mil. Dallas is at $13.6 right now and trying to free more, but not for Evans. Also keep in mind they only have 5 players under contract. So they will need to fill a bunch of spots with min contracts. Atlanta has around $11 million with Smiths and teagues cap holds. They won't be doing anything until the Smith situation is resolved.

My point is there really aren't that many team out there with cap space and spot for a guard (especially SG). Houston has harden, NO has gordon. Utah would have to renounce Millsap and/or Jefferson to free space. Cleveland has waiters and Irving. Charlotte could be one depending on who they draft and if they decide to move away from Henderson. Detroit can have a similar player in stuckey for $8 mil. That leaves the Magic who have Afflalo and the Bucks with Jennings and Ellis as FA.

 

[Section 101]

You don't see a potential issue with lowballing Reke upfront and offering the same contract as his backup in MT who might be half the player Reke is?

Here's the issue I see with lowballing him and then telling him if you expect more, go talk to teams and see what you can get. First, it can be taken as insulting, that the Kings don't really want him that badly. Second, it tells him you value him as much as his backup. And third, it might lead he and his agent to simply sign the one year QO and walk as an UFA next year, where we have no say and he's free to go wherever he likes. And that's if it's even extended before free agency. If not, he's free to walk.

Let him take the 1 year deal and all the risk. Any injury or non improvement on his part will only lower his value. The team would still have his bird rights and be able to offer the 5th year and higher salary raises if he performs.

 

[sdballer]

Name one?

hint: start with teams with cap space.

You're acting like there is no ability to acquire more cap space for moves. Just because our front office hasn't shown an ability to maneuver around the cap doesn't mean others don't or won't.

I don't know for certain that someone will offer more than 8 but based on the recent salaries given out to similar or lesser players it seems likely.

 

[sdballer]

You don't see a potential issue with lowballing Reke upfront and offering the same contract as his backup in MT who might be half the player Reke is?

Here's the issue I see with lowballing him and then telling him if you expect more, go talk to teams and see what you can get. First, it can be taken as insulting, that the Kings don't really want him that badly. Second, it tells him you value him as much as his backup. And third, it might lead he and his agent to simply sign the one year QO and walk as an UFA next year, where we have no say and he's free to go wherever he likes. And that's if it's even extended before free agency. If not, he's free to walk.

Hopefully this is where open communication with him is at a high level. There is a way to not overcommit without insulting and I think our new management team could walk that fine line between Reke feeling wanted and not significantly overpaying.

 

[Kingsfan23]

You don't see a potential issue with lowballing Reke upfront and offering the same contract as his backup in MT who might be half the player Reke is?

Here's the issue I see with lowballing him and then telling him if you expect more, go talk to teams and see what you can get. First, it can be taken as insulting, that the Kings don't really want him that badly. Second, it tells him you value him as much as his backup. And third, it might lead he and his agent to simply sign the one year QO and walk as an UFA next year, where we have no say and he's free to go wherever he likes. And that's if it's even extended before free agency. If not, he's free to walk.

Thats just coincidence, how Thornton's career has progressed. Thornton was balling when he first came here, and at the time he signed that contract it could be argued his market value was comparable to Reke's now

 

[Bricklayer]

There is always a danger if you either insult a guy, or encourage him to go out and talk to other teams to get an offer. Can cause all kinds of problems, and can end up leading you to either force a guy back who no longer wants to be here, or end up having to do a sign and trade for pennies on the dollar. The trick for a player like Reke is you want to slip him an offer on the bottom half of acceptable. You do NOT want to lowball him. Nor do you want to badly overpay him if you can avoid it. You want to find the lowest possible offer he might accept, go maybe $1mil/yr higher, and basically short circuit his desire to test the market. He might think he could do better, but hey, he's already got an ok offer to fall back on so its not the same determination to leave. Then you just have to hope nobody goes stupid and big. Meanwhile, you say to Reke, here, what if we went $500k more? and try to convince him to just sign and be done with it.

Free agency is the enemy of a market like Sacramento. It is in all ways a bad thing. A way to lose talents, not a way to ever gain them. Its not a game you want to play. So your task is to find a way to basically avoid it.

 

[rainmaker]

Let him take the 1 year deal and all the risk. Any injury or non improvement on his part will only lower his value. The team would still have his bird rights and be able to offer the 5th year and higher salary raises if he performs.

It's amazing how some of you would take so much risk with our second best player, with zero plan of replacing him.

Part of that risk is him having a damn good year next year under a new coach with a better roster, which is more likely than not, then he has his choice of where to go and already feels insulted due to the lowball offer. So your plan would then be to overpay Reke next summer as well as sign Cuz to a huge extension? That's a ridiculous amount of risk considering the Sac market.

If we were LA, NY or Chi it'd be different.

 

[Agent23]

It's amazing how some of you would take so much risk with our second best player, with zero plan of replacing him.

Part of that risk is him having a damn good year next year under a new coach with a better roster, which is more likely than not, then he has his choice of where to go and already feels insulted due to the lowball offer. So your plan would then be to overpay Reke next summer as well as sign Cuz to a huge extension? That's a ridiculous amount of risk considering the Sac market.

If we were LA, NY or Chi it'd be different.

The only reason some of these posters are willing to risk lowballing him, is because they really want him to leave.

 

[Section 101]

You're acting like there is no ability to acquire more cap space for moves. Just because our front office hasn't shown an ability to maneuver around the cap doesn't mean others don't or won't.

I don't know for certain that someone will offer more than 8 but based on the recent salaries given out to similar or lesser players it seems likely.

And again, because someone else was willing to overpay to keep their players that means this team should do the same?

 

[Section 101]

It's amazing how some of you would take so much risk with our second best player, with zero plan of replacing him.

Part of that risk is him having a damn good year next year under a new coach with a better roster, which is more likely than not, then he has his choice of where to go and already feels insulted due to the lowball offer. So your plan would then be to overpay Reke next summer as well as sign Cuz to a huge extension? That's a ridiculous amount of risk considering the Sac market.

If we were LA, NY or Chi it'd be different.

What will be your excuse if he's the same player as today?

He would still be limited to the same max salary as this year. There is no risk in paying him more next year with a max contracts. So in a sense, he would need to prove himself next year to get that max contract. Ya he could take a 4 year deal to leave and get 4.5% raises instead of 7.5$

 

[rainmaker]

Thats just coincidence, how Thornton's career has progressed. Thornton was balling when he first came here, and at the time he signed that contract it could be argued his market value was comparable to Reke's now

Going off your opinion, referring to market value and MT signing that contract when his value was at its highest, it would be even more of a reason for Reke to feel insulted by a 4/32 contract after constant misuse for years, and instead of signing that contract when his value would be deemed low, reject it, sign the QO and walk next year when his value more than likely is higher.

Let's apply a little logic here. FO offers Reke the same contract as his backup got, he takes it as a bit insulting, maybe worse, and you think Vivek/PDA and company should respond with it was just a coincidence that MT got 8M per? And you then think Reke and his high powered agent will simply say, well ok then, since it was just a coincidence I'll sign?

That's playing with fire, and small markets with a terrible track record of attracting FA's can't play that game.

 

[ParniValjak]

There is always a danger if you either insult a guy, or encourage him to go out and talk to other teams to get an offer. Can cause all kinds of problems, and can end up leading you to either force a guy back who no longer wants to be here, or end up having to do a sign and trade for pennies on the dollar. The trick for a player like Reke is you want to slip him an offer on the bottom half of acceptable. You do NOT want to lowball him. Nor do you want to badly overpay him if you can avoid it. You want to find the lowest possible offer he might accept, go maybe $1mil/yr higher, and basically short circuit his desire to test the market. He might think he could do better, but hey, he's already got an ok offer to fall back on so its not the same determination to leave. Then you just have to hope nobody goes stupid and big. Meanwhile, you say to Reke, here, what if we went $500k more? and try to convince him to just sign and be done with it.

Free agency is the enemy of a market like Sacramento. It is in all ways a bad thing. A way to lose talents, not a way to ever gain them. Its not a game you want to play. So your task is to find a way to basically avoid it.

Precisely!

Some people are acting like Reke (or anyone else for that matter) should be privileged to play for the Kings even if it's at a lower salary. It does not work that way. Some of the approaches here are straight out insulting! Even if you sign the player in the end, it does not end well. It burns bridges and creates unwanted effects on the franchise.

As you quite rightly pointed out, it is about trying to find out what is on the lower end of acceptable to Tyreke and make him that initial offer and hope he feels comfortable with it to sign up. You have your wiggle room and clear line on how far you are willing to go but you don't come in at below that line of what is acceptable.

This is not just about Tyreke but any free agent we have that is worth his salt. Same will apply to Cousins. You cannot act like we are Lakers who can just go out and buy talent when they feel like it. We do not have that appeal and never will. We need to be smart about it, without being insulting. I can guarantee that Tyreke will get an offer that is bigger than $8 million per season but I am hoping that our initial offer is close enough so that he does not seek other opportunities out there.

 

[rainmaker]

What will be your excuse if he's the same player as today?

If you have no confidence in our new owner investing more in the team, no confidence that Malone will use Reke better than Smart did, no confidence PDA will do a better job at surrounding our top players with complimentary talent and no confidence in Reke improving this off season which he did last off season, then your stance makes perfect sense.

You assume the worst from our players, new FO and new coach, and therefor are perfectly fine taking that risk, as you've convinced yourself it's more likely he won't improve.

 

[sdballer]

And again, because someone else was willing to overpay to keep their players that means this team should do the same?

If as a small, undesirable market we want to compete, you bet we should be ready to overpay when necessary.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If as a small, undesirable market we want to compete, you bet we should be ready to overpay when necessary.

I sometimes feel as though some Kings Fans refuse to believe that Sacramento has to pay more, and it seems to be because they don't think that Sacramento is as unattractive to young, rich, entitled athletes as it actually is. The Kings have to pay $11M for a player that NY, LA, Chicago or Miami probably gets for $8M, regardless of record, regardless of management, regardless of who else is on the team.

That's the way it's always been and, barring an unprecedented explosion of population, industry and culture, that's the way it's always going to be. Sometimes life stinks.

 

[Section 101]

If as a small, undesirable market we want to compete, you bet we should be ready to overpay when necessary.

But it's not necessary. He's a restricted free agent. Why over pay just to over pay. Let someone sign him to an offer sheet then choose to match or not.

If you have no confidence in our new owner investing more in the team, no confidence that Malone will use Reke better than Smart did, no confidence PDA will do a better job at surrounding our top players with complimentary talent and no confidence in Reke improving this off season which he did last off season, then your stance makes perfect sense.

You assume the worst from our players, new FO and new coach, and therefor are perfectly fine taking that risk, as you've convinced yourself it's more likely he won't improve.

I think the team will improve and Evans will improve as well. But I still don't think his value is more than $8-9 mil. He's someone that can be replaced easier than what people around here think.

Precisely!

Some people are acting like Reke (or anyone else for that matter) should be privileged to play for the Kings even if it's at a lower salary. It does not work that way. Some of the approaches here are straight out insulting! Even if you sign the player in the end, it does not end well. It burns bridges and creates unwanted effects on the franchise.

As you quite rightly pointed out, it is about trying to find out what is on the lower end of acceptable to Tyreke and make him that initial offer and hope he feels comfortable with it to sign up. You have your wiggle room and clear line on how far you are willing to go but you don't come in at below that line of what is acceptable.

This is not just about Tyreke but any free agent we have that is worth his salt. Same will apply to Cousins. You cannot act like we are Lakers who can just go out and buy talent when they feel like it. We do not have that appeal and never will. We need to be smart about it, without being insulting. I can guarantee that Tyreke will get an offer that is bigger than $8 million per season but I am hoping that our initial offer is close enough so that he does not seek other opportunities out there.

Cuz is a whole different scenario. 6 foot 11 centers like Cuz are rare. 6 foot 6 swingman like Evans are more common.

If as a small, undesirable market we want to compete, you bet we should be ready to overpay when necessary.

You over pay to get other teams free agents to come. You don't overpay your own restricted FA's. There is a reason for the way RFA are setup. It gives the home team the chance to keep a player at market value.

 

[sdballer]

But it's not necessary. He's a restricted free agent. Why over pay just to over pay. Let someone sign him to an offer sheet then choose to match or not.



I think the team will improve and Evans will improve as well. But I still don't think his value is more than $8-9 mil. He's someone that can be replaced easier than what people around here think.

So throw some ideas out there to replace him. How would you get a guy with his talent and upside to this market?